Stupid right-wing response to GI deaths in Iraq - unbelievable!

[dobak]

Put deaths in perspective

Since the country is conditioned by the doom-and-gloom reporting by the media, the latest Newsweek poll finds that just 13 percent say U.S. efforts to establish security and rebuild Iraq have gone very well since May 1, when combat officially ended.

Any loss is tragic. However, the number of U.S. troops dead from the war in Iraq is just slightly more than the number of Americans who died from West Nile virus last year.

Contrast Iraq to the war in Vietnam, when 350 Americans were dying in combat every week in 1968. It was much higher than that during World War II.

To put this in further context, about 40,000 Americans die in traffic accidents every year; there are 18,000 homicides, and about 300 American deaths from lightning strikes. Dog-bite fatalities are even higher than our losses so far in Iraq!


http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4187371.html

============

Talk about trying to spin something

[alcuno]

1. Find the stats for Vietnam 1964.

First of all, to compare Iraq to Vietnam is a dangerous path. After all, Vietnam was manufactured on a lie.

Second of all, look up Vietnam 1964. I'm fairly certain we've surpassed the number of deaths for that year. It would be a more appropriate comparison.

[sexybomber]

3. Well...

Vietnam was manufactured on a lie, and Iraq was manufactured on a 0.0000000000000001% more justifiable lie. There's one comparison. The North Vietnamese were fighting a guerilla war against the United States. The Iraqis are fighting a guerilla war against the United States. There's another. I could go on, but I'm too hungover to think clearly...

[wuushew]

6. No the lie was based on domino theory

which people believed until discredited AFTER Vietnam.

Many patriotic Americans must have supported fighting communism since we were there for eight years.

The fact that the American people have learned nothing from the lessons of Vietnam and continue to vote for idiot warmongers is what truly saddens me.

[VolcanoJen]

28. If the Internet existed in 1968, would Americans have stood for Vietnam?

300+ per week is a shocking number. I was only two years old in 1968, but were Americans aware of this number?

The 'net is our best hope for sharing the truth, for those who seek it...

[Richardo]

44. Look at the demonstrations, riots and the 1968 Dem convention.

People knew, and it was tearing the country to pieces.

Vietnam directly ended the Johnson administration and indirectly ended the Nixon administration (Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist was a target of Nixon's plumbers - the outfit that broke into the Watergate.)

I hope it doesn't have to come to that again, but since GW is Nixon reincarnate, I'm not optimistic.

[leftofthedial]

40. Gulf of Tonkin was a lie

a fabricated attack

many Murkins did support it, even if they'd known they were lied to.

[Bandit]

38. Actually your comparisons are not valid

North Vietnam had the third largest army in the world at the time and we were only fighting a containment war, The Viet Minh (later to be known as Viet Cong) were the ones fighting a guerilla war. The North Vietnamese Army or NVA was a conventional force of trememdous caliber. We had many engagements of regiment strength or greater. They were a highly trained army fighting with jungle tactics. After 1966 there were very few guerilla activities. We fought against uniformed troops with new and accurate weapon systems (for the time)and a superb tunnel system that connected almost all of South Vietnam.We found an underground hospital that was in some ways superior to ours at the time.

[Scottie72]

18. Thank you!

I responded to a thread earlier and cannot remember where it was.. but the early years of Vietnam had deaths in the hundreads. It wasn't unitl several years later that the deaths started coming in by the hundreds by the week.

[NewJeffCT]

37. Is this accurate for Vietname casualties?

I have no idea, but I did a quick google search and came up with no US casualties in 1964 and 63 in 1965? It looks like it really picked up in 1966, though.

http://www.grunt.com/vietnamwarcasualites.htm

[wuushew]

2. The use of Kevlar has cut the death rate way down.

10 wounded soliders for everyone killed.

Also in 1968-1969 didn't we have 400-500,000 troops in the theater.

The violence is extreme and all deaths are unecessary. I can't really say that of west nile virus since I can't prove that the BFEE is behind it.

[wtmusic]

4. At first that was true

Iraqis soon realized that shots to the chest wouldn't cut it, so now they are attacking isolated GIs with point-blank shots to the face or neck.

And Kevlar won't help you if a roadside bomb blows off both your legs.

[karlschneider]

5. Well, let's see, 200 million americans, 18000 homicides, that's

about 1 in 11,000. 130000 troops, 325 killed, about 1 in 360.

And this fuckstick is named "Love"...

:grr:

[caledesi]

7. Could someone please explain this ridiculous argument?

To put this in further context, about 40,000 Americans die in traffic accidents every year; there are 18,000 homicides, and about 300 American deaths from lightning strikes. Dog-bite fatalities are even higher than our losses so far in Iraq!

WTF does this have to do w/ troops dying in Iraq? I don't get it. (course I am a logical person, maybe that's why)

[dobak]

8. <shrug>

I think it was just some shit thrown out, hoping to confuse the reader and make them think the letter made sense.

Typical tactic used by those who know they are wrong, but don't want the truth to get out.

[Skittles]

14. It has NOTHING to do with it

they are trying to prop up their precious King George by minimizing the needless deaths of our troops and it BEYOND SICKENING

[wtmusic]

9. 1/400,000 the number who died in the holocaust

that's not bad...

:eyes:

[DBoon]

10. These deaths are absolutely trivial

in comparison to the number of deaths caused by the Black Plague.

So there!

[wuushew]

11. The Black death is trivial to the Permian extinction

which killed out 90% of all spieces on the planet.

[Barad Simith]

12. What about all the deaths due to...

...natural causes? God is the biggest mass-murderer in history. Anything we humans do to each other is child's play, by comparison.

Gotta go. I'm late for today's pillaging.

[maggrwaggr]

13. less than 3,000 have died from domestic terra, so why go to war at all?

heck in that case we should go to war against Ford Motor Co., right?

[caledesi]

16. Good one Mag! nt

[Guaranteed]

31. LOL brilliant

Seriously...what are we so pissed about?

[NewJeffCT]

15. Ack

That same article appeared in the Hartford Courant today... it made me sick. I haven't written a letter to the editor in about a decade, but I'm about to now.

[neuvocat]

17. How many people were lied to when they got in car wrecks?

Or had dog bites or lightning strikes?

It was also pointed out that the percentage of people killed versus the current population is much, much higher than any of those examples mentioned in that article.

[PurityOfEssence]

19. Yes, comparing it to absolute disasters and crises, it does quite well

so far.

It's like the bullshit argument about the debt and deficit not being as great a percentage of GNP as at the end of World War 2: yes, our current circumstances aren't as bloody or penurious as during THE GREATEST CRISIS IN HUMAN HISTORY. Big damn deal; that's not much of an accomplishment.

It's a mess, an expensive mess that's tying up the bulk of our military and having them do things for which they're not trained.

[maine_raptor]

20. Contrast What to What?????????????????

Let me get this straight, this right-wing bullschiess artist wants me to "contrast Iraq to the war in Vietnam, when 350 Americans were dying in combat every week in 1968". Ok, let's see, in 1968:

US Armed Forces (Army, Air Force, Marine and Navy) were conducting massive military operations within SE Asia on a daily basis. Air stikes, ground combat, rivertine warfare were a common occurance. Not to mention "terriorist actions" behind the "lines" in the major cites of South Vietnam. Of course combat deaths were a lot higher, the intensity of combat was, you bozo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sheesh........do these idjits even think a complete thought though???????


edit: cause fingers not working tonight

[Cat Atomic]

21. And that is what's called "supporting the troops".

The writer explains away the deaths of American service men and women as inconsequential. The message is: 'it's nothing to worry about. There aren't THAT many of them dying. Who cares?'.

Mm-hmm.

[maine_raptor]

22. Thank you

I was going to add something to that effect to my post above CA.

You're right it's a piss poor way of showing support.

[Clark Can WIN]

25. good call

[kskiska]

23. I guess that's what we should tell

the widows and orphans from this war. Hey, he/she could just as well have died in a car wreck or been struck by lightning. Get over it.

[QC]

24. Reminds me of the "more people have been killed in California" argument.

They always fail to mention that California has app. 30,000,000 people and there are only about 140,000 Americans in Baghdad, thus rendering the whole comparison pointless.

[Kinkistyle]

26. Can we use that argument in a court of law?

I mean, the amount of people that the Maryland State Sniper is pitifully small compared to the number of people who died from West Nile or dog-bite fatalities. We should just let him go with a slap on the wrist and some community service.

[rasputin1952]

27. Statistics is a safe harbor for those that rarionalize...

things like death. It is so easy to say, "well 40,000 die in car accidents".

What tripe! I can guarantee, if one of these "keyboard commando's", knew what it was like to hear rounds whisting over your head, or their children were coming home in flag draped coffins, they would change their tune instantaneously!

When I used to go to the VFW, (booze was cheap!), I would listen to the war stories of others, and when it finally came down to brass tacks, many of them were invloved in transporting freight by air, cooks, mechanics or truck drivers. All of these jobs are necessary, and for sure, they can be hazardous, (especially if your a BAD cook), but when you talk to a grunt, there is little else that can replace boots on the ground. An inch of caked mud and dust held together with sweat on a body that hasn't seen soap in two weeks is something most people would rather avoid. Soap in combat gets you killed.

Anyway.....these little turds are just mouthing off about things they know nothing about. As long as it's someone else's family member that dies, they don't care. I went to a military funeral about 45 min's from where I am. I never knew the kid, he was killed in Iraq. The first one I know of from NE. I talked to his parents and his girlfriend. I teared up when Taps played. I just hope I gave them some solace in their time of grief.

When these people face death, they will face it with fear, they will go kicking and screaming, demanding that someone die in their place.
I am content with myself, and I understand that this war is a "bad" war, a war of aggression solely for the control of oil wealth. Our sons and daughters, our fathers and mothers, were put in harms way, so that oil barons could retain power. For this, they will pay a high price. But their payment won't come due for a while. Our servicemembers are paying now.

:grouphug: for our servicemembers and our Vets.

[0rganism]

29. I just hope the neocon pundits try this argument next October

It WILL backfire so fast they won't be able to say "non sequitir".

[Wapsie B]

30. That same rationalization

was heard after every school shooting. And the repugs get away with it.

[okieinpain]

32. post on fark, interesting group of folks. maybe there is hope

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=707034

[Military Brat]

33. rush limbaugh made the same argument about "perspective"

This was a few months ago. Honestly, do these right-wingers ever listen to themselves???

[Starfire_Sangraal]

34. New Symbol for the NeoCon Party

New Symbol for the NeoCon Party

from A BUZZFLASH READER COMMENTARY

by One Citizen

The attached bumper sticker outlines the main theme and serves as a backdrop to an original graphic symbol designed specifically to represent the radical NeoConservative Movement. The figure of an ancient raptor was chosen to depict this new, aggressive platform, having devolved from the once-respected Conservative party, whose logo is, quite fittingly, the soon-to-be-extinct elephant.

Now the GOP can be properly represented by a cold-blooded creature.

The symbol of the Tyrannosaurus Rex was chosen particularly because of the NeoCon's craving for fossil fuels, re-kindling a blood-thirstiness in America not realized since the vicious T-Rex ruled this continent.

Hence the new name... The REPTILIAN PARTY.





Consider it yours to publish on your website so that your readers may print it out and display as they wish.

[LibertyorDeath]

35. From sick minds come sick perspectives & those mofos are sick!

[TNOE]

36. What's the total population of NY?

3,000 as a percentage of all New Yorkers than would probably be "miniscule" - so why bother going to war at all? I mean if they would have been bitten by dogs or struck by lightening anyway. What's the big deal. Rightwingers EXPECT soldiers to die. Unbelievable. Rumsfeld kept saying on Meet the Press - that this is to be expected - preparing us for more.

[NewJeffCT]

39. My letter to the editor

I'm not as good as I used to be at writing, but I sent this to my local paper, which also ran the article:

>>>
I am writing in response to Max Boot's outrageous "Putting Casualties in Perspective" opinion piece on Sunday, November 2, 2003.

First, he says that he does not mean to make light of the casualty figures, then he spends the rest of his opinion piece doing just that. He compares Iraq to Vietnam by saying that only 228 men have died in combat in Iraq while over 47,000 died in Vietnam. He then conveniently forgets to mention that Vietnam took place over 10 years and we are only in the first few months of the Iraq occupation. A more realistic comparison would be to compare the first year of Iraq to the first years of Vietnam. The statistic I was able to find indicated no American casualties in 1964 and 63 in 1965. So, right there, in only a little over six months, the casualties in Iraq are more than quadruple the first 16 months of Vietnam, especially when you take into account the recent Chinook helicopter tragedy.

Then, he compares it to traffic deaths in the United States. There were 41,000 traffic deaths in the United States, he says. But, he also suffers from a lack of perspective here as well. There are 280,000,000 million or so people in the United States and only 130,000 soldiers in Iraq. If the people from the United States had traffic deaths at the same rate as US soldiers had combat deaths in Iraq, we would have had close to 550,000 traffic deaths instead of a mere 41,000.

I am very disappointed that Mr. Boot would belittle the dangers that the American soldiers are facing every day in Iraq.

[rasputin1952]

42. Excellent letter!...

n/t

[Kusala]

41. but have you forgotten

only 3,000 people died on 9/11,

but 600,000 die of cancer every year.

Therefore, by this articles reasoning, 9/11 was basically not a big deal.

[NewJeffCT]

46. Doh!

I wish I had included that in my letter to the editor!

[ElementaryPenguin]

43. Vietnam was okay then! Merely a year and a month of traffic deaths!

No problemo! Hiroshima? Nagusaki? Neither of them anymore than 2 measley years of traffic deaths! Unbelievable the way the liberal press overacts to these meaningless, inconsequential deaths!!

[lovedems]

45. The 13% are probably the CEO's

and CFO's and accountants, all the bigwigs making the profits off the war! And of course it is going very well from their perspective. I think the numbers of other deaths are totally irrevlevant considering we shouldn't have gone to Iraq in the first place! So the comparison to dog bite fatalities vs. losses in Iraq is moot and stupid.