Is "Progressive" Different Than "Liberal?"

[DrFunkenstein]

For me, I have always had the sense that there were certain issues that put progressives in a category more distinct than liberals.

I tend to think of liberals as generally supporting the Democratic Party as it had solidified ideologically in the late 60's-early 70's (civil rights, women's rights, social programs, etc.).

With progressives I tend to think of issues like campaign finance reform, renewable energy, media democracy, corporate welfare, and such.

Do people agree with this distinction or are the two interchangable terms?

[mmonk]

1. Progressive I tend to think of as moving forward

whereas liberal sometimes is more subjective.

[LastKnight]

2. you got it partially right...

but today's government and it's polcies are pushing everyone to extreames... and the lines are blurred and they start to become one and the same... in the 60s/70s they were easily discernable, but these days, the line between them is barely visible.

one man's opnion

-LK

[PurityOfEssence]

3. they're cowed by the conservative demonization of the word "liberal"

Is there any real difference that can't be encompassed within the play of a loose term? I don't think so. I think it's a surrender by people who have been successfully bullied by the constant vilification of the term. If there is any difference, all I can hear is that we are more prone to social support systems and market substitution. To be a liberal doesn't necessarily mean worshipping at the altar of inviolable welfare and other entitlements; liberalism, by definition, is constantly evolving.

This is certainly pretty combative on my part, but I'll bet it hits a nerve with lots of like-minded types. It's fine: use the term, but don't go along with the distancing of yourselves from folks like me who look the world straight in the eye and tell them they're a liberal.

It's a good word. It's a good philosophy. It's responsible for much of what's made this country great.

[JNelson6563]

52. This is true

All my life, at least the big, apolitical chunk of it, I heard the word "liberal" spat out like a piece of dirt in the mouth. I had no idea really about the different political philosophies (as a child) but, and this was very long ago, just fromwatching nightly news and stuff I got the impression that "liberals" were horrid people.

For some 30+ years WE have let THEM frame the language. We have let them set the tone.

It's time to stop them.

Julie

[Some Moran]

4. Classical progressivism...

The progressivism of the early 20th century was primarily rich White men with noblesse oblige trying to shift the balance of power away from corporations and more towards individuals and about moving to streamlines, responsible government.

[Isome]

5. I didn't hear "progressive"...

Until "liberal" became a dirty word. It could be that I wasn't listening, but that's how it seemed to me. I have this quote that I've wanted to lay on folks for a while now; here it is:

I think liberalism has been on a decline for a long time and it's going to continue. It's evidenced in one way by the fact that most liberals won't even use the word to identify themselves. Most of them try to -- "oh, no, I'm progressive"; "I'm a moderate" -- or I'm something or other.

Guess who said that?

Political labels are always inaccurate in that they don't describe the totality of a one's views. But in other ways, people on the left are far too susceptible to the vitriol of the right, and respond by shunning labels they've targeted.

[RichM]

6. My take - the terms are not really interchangeable, though there is

something to the point raised above that since 1980 or so, liberals have started substituting the word "progressive" just to get out of the line of rightwing fire.

Fundamentally, though, I think "progressive" denotes a position more left on the spectrum than "liberal."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. You are right......

That's why I call myself a liberal, a traditional liberal, a welfare state liberal, a garden variety liberal or a centrist that leans left depending on my mood and environment....


As an aside progressives and folks like Chomsky and Zinn are radicals and I don't mean radical in a pejorative terms. Radical comes from the word root and radicals want to make root or fundamental change.....Liberals accept the current system but want to make changes to excise it's inequities....


As a point of vanity I believe in free markets, progressive taxation, a robust social safety net, and a Wilsonian foreign policy where diplomacy and moral persuasion are the first resort and the military is the last resort....

[Catholic Sensation]

7. This is what I think

Liberals tend to be more politically conservative than the progressives I know. Bill Clinton was a liberal, John Kerry is a liberal but not left like Chomsky. The progressives I know are pretty much socialists (yes, I am a socialist) but since the right wing using their ability to turn socialist into a swear word, made that term unpopular, progressive is the term we took.

Liberals also tend to be more politically correct than the progressives I know (like me). It seems liberals are always up in arms whenever anyone ever uses slang (or even non slang) terms to describe a race, sexual preference, gender. Cases in point are the pussifying of our language. Blacks aren't blacks, they're African Americans, including people from Jamaica and Haiti. Indians aren't Indians, they're native americans. Another example is some whiney bitch reporting one of my posts for using a slang term (cser) to describe Sean Hannity. Liberals like this, who want to make this country totally unliveable by controlling what people can say, make the more normal ones look stupid, thus hurting liberalism, and making liberal a dirty word.

If people who call themselves "liberal" would simply try to disassociate themselves with the whiney "100% politically correct" lunatics, the movement might start having progressives define themselves as liberal.

[Maple]

8. Well you're hardly a progressive then

'neo' or otherwise.

Perhaps you don't remember the things people used to call each other before PC language came into use...but I do, and it sucked.

'Whiney bitch' is a good example of calling someone a put-down type name just because they disagree with you.

Do you know where the people of Haiti and Jamaica came from originally? Check it out sometime.

And Indians, my friend, are from India.

[Catholic Sensation]

10. Indians are not from India

People from India prefer to be called Hindi, but nice try.

I don't use racial slurs to describe people, nor did I advocate it, (I said slang) but considering I used the term i described before in other posts, and this one happens to be reported, yes the person is a whiney bitch. Unless we have Hannity fans in this arena. And yes, fans of Hannity are whiney bitches, since most of them will repeat whatever that dick says, which is usually him being a whiney bitch.

Btw, since it seems you believe the term "Indian" came from Columbus thinking this was India, let me educate you. India was called Hindustan when Columbus did his sailing (hence people from India being called Hindi). When he came to the "new world" he described the people as being "under God" or in spanish "In Dios" In Dios became Indians.

Okay, since it's obvious you believe in evolution, EVERYONE CAME FROM FUCKING AFRICA.

It's insulting to INDIANS to call them native americans because:

a. they're not native, they emigrated here too.

b. they have tribal names which they associate with more than the term the white people called themselves. Whiney white people shouldn't be giving out lables. Ask someone on a reservation what they'd like to be called. I can safely assume most don't want what their oppressors decided to call them.

c. see a. There are no fucking natives anywhere in this world except the indiginous african tribes around the great rift valley. So stop pussying our language up by applying weak white standards to everyone.

I am progressive because I'd rather see real change happen for these groups and not this "well we don't call them this anymore, that's it" This is why I don't call myself liberal.

I don't care if you don't like my swears either. You'd better bitch to thousands of others on here too if you're going to criticize my language.

[sujan]

22. 'hindi' is a language

[July]

35. Link on your "in Dios" story?

AFAIK, "in" is not a preposition in Spanish (it's "en").

Where does the Columbus story come from?

[MrPrax]

46. You ain't Progressive...

I started to think that this rant was a parody...but you appear serious.

Firstly they're are indians from India. Calling them hindi is stupid-what about muslims and sihk? Not to mention all the rest of the non-hindus in India.

Secondly coming from Africa really doesn't cut it. The INDIANS are aboriginals or First Nations...both terms cover YOUR hang up. Some crap about Columbus and Latin terms makes absolutely no sense...

Part of the REAL CHANGE is the challenging of myths!!!

[goodhue]

55. ignorant and wrong

India is full of many different peoples. Hindi is one of 15 different languages spoken in India. The people who speak Hindi are not Hindi. In contrast the people who speak Gujarati are often Gujarati. Indians refer to themselves as Indians. Get a clue.

http://www.indiatravelogue.com/pass/pass7.html

Many widely divergent languages with varied dialects in a multi-hued cultural set-up is part of the kaleidoscope of India.

In a country with so much regional variation, where in several cases state boundaries have been drawn on linguistic lines, it is but inevitable that fifteen national languages are recognized by the Indian constitution. These are spoken in over 1600 dialects.

While India's official language is Hindi in the Devnagri script, English continues to be the official working language. Most Indians living in urban and semi-urban towns are multi-lingual. For many in the metro cities of India, English is virtually their first language, and for many more, it is the second language. Sanskrit, one of the oldest languages of the world, is the language in which the great Indian epics and classical literature have been written.

Hindi is spoken as a mother tongue by about 40 percent of the population, mainly in the area known as the Hindi belt. It is the official language of the Indian Union and of Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh., Haryana and Himachal Pradesh.
Assamese is the state language of Assam and is spoken by nearly 60 percent of the State's population. The origin of this language dates back to the 13th century. Bengali, also developed in the 13th century, is the official state language of West Bengal. It is spoken by nearly 200 million people worldwide, and is used in neighbouring Bangladesh also. Oriya, the state language of Orissa is spoken by nearly 87 percent of its population.

Hindi is spoken as a mother tongue by about 40 percent of the population.

In the south, Kannada is the State language of Karnataka and is spoken by 65 percent of the state's population. Malayalam, spoken in Kerala, is an ancient Dravidian language with it's origin dating thousands of years. Tamil, an ancient Dravidian language at least 2000 years old, is the state language of Tamil Nadu and is spoken by at least 65 million people. Telugu, also a Dravidian language, is spoken by the people of Andhra Pradesh.

Marathi is an Indic language dating back to the 13th century, and is the official language of the western state of Maharashtra. Gujarati, Indic in origin, is the state language of Gujarat and is spoken by 70 percent of the State's population. Konkani, principally based on classical Sanskrit, belongs to the southwestern branch of Indo-Aryan languages and is spoken in the Konkan region covering Goa and parts of the coastal regions of Karnataka, Kerala and Maharashtra.

Urdu is the state language of Jammu and Kashmi. It is also the language used by the majority of Muslims in India. Written in the Persio-Arabic script, it contains many words from Persian. Kashmiri is a language written in both Persio-Arabic and Devnagri script and is spoken by 55 percent of the population of Jammu and Kashmir. Sindhi is spoken by many in the North-west frontier of the Indian sub-continent comprising both India and Pakistan. In Pakistan, the language is written in the Persio-Arabic script, while in India the Devnagri script is used. Punjabi is an Indic language spoken in the state of Punjab. Although based on the Devnagri script, it is written in Gurmukhi, a script created by the Sikh Guru, Angad in the 16th century.

[0007]

56. Absolutely beautiful!

Thank you for the discourse.

[Isome]

9. Well now, that's interesting.

Political correctness is nothing more than tact, courtesy, respect. You're not against that are you?

Not all people of African descent care if they're referred to as Black or African American. I don't. My sister on the other hand prefers Black. Some of my friends prefer African American. A particularly good friend of mine only refers to himself as an "African in America", but doesn't bristle at the other descriptions. If you're not being derisive, it doesn't matter one whit. Of course, you'd have to have more than nominal contact with "us" to know that.

The indigenous people of this country, you know, the ones who had discovered America, set up shop, and lived for centuries before Columbus got here, are not Indians. They were named that due to Christopher's error, the name was perpetuated due to cultural arrogance. Unless one has a superiority complex, that shouldn't be a cause for concern, but be a lesson learned about American history, as told by the victors, being incomplete without the proper perspective.

Addition:

By the way, the fact that you dropped the "liberal" label because of the righwing's mischaracterizations of it is the point I tried to make in my first post. We've got to be stronger than that!! Why run from a label b/c of what those shrieking banshees say about it? You have to know who & what you are... what you believe in... and have the courage to stand firm in the face of ridicule. You have to be able to articulate your beliefs without hesitation and immediately correct anyone who tries to distort your position. You appear ready to assail those in your own party, based on what the GOP says, but you won't set them straight when necessary. Instead, you find a new so they won't pick on it (you?).

Come on now... !!

[Catholic Sensation]

11. read my above post

about HOW THE FUCKING INDIANS GOT THEIR NAME.

The fact you believe such a bullshit and childish story is unbelievable. I'm sure you believe Isaac Newton was actually hit on the head by an apple and "discovered" gravity as well.

[whirlygigspin]

13. favorite definition

A Liberal -- is someone who thinks he knows better...
A Progressive is someone who thinks he can do better.

*I always liked that one.
hmm

[Isome]

15. When's the last time you asked a Native American...

Some don't mind "indian", some do. Yes, they have tribal names, but in general they refer to themselves as Native Americans. (On edit: I've actually seen/heard "Native" more than Native American.) That shouldn't bother you. I wonder why they formed a Native American Journalists Association (NAJA), instead of a Cherokee, Hopi, Black Creek, etc. Journalists Association?

You can cuss all day long, that doesn't make you less wrong, or less antagonistic, or less crass. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, sans the expletives. They're great for emphasis; I use them myself. But, gratuitous usage in a contentious exchange only makes the user appear emotionally imbalanced. Feel free, though...

But try to save some of that anger for the people who scare you so much you had to stop using "liberal". They should be the focal point for your ire and righteous indignation.

[economic justice]

34. I agree about the language

I see nothing wrong with cussing when its point is emphatic empasis, but to use it the way "neo-progressive" does completely takes away from any points he is trying to make. Childish, actually.

[Catholic Sensation]

16. no i dropped the term socialist

i don't call myself liberal because liberals don't seem to want to fight for the important shit, like universal health care. Don't give me this crap that "well Kucinich, Dean, and Clark support it." If they really wanted it, they'd be out working their asses trying to prove that universal health care is essential and important. No, instead Dean has a republican's plan for medicare, Kucinich is wasting time criticizing Dean's ad for "hurting his campaign," and Clark has not made stuff I care about important part of his campaign. Liberals, aka Moderate Democrats, seem to appeal to the left (such as myself) in the primaries, but drift to center during the election and stay there when they are elected (Clinton was a fucking republican liberal).

List of liberals:

Alan Colmes, continues to spread the bullshit fox news is fair and balanced. The man is endorsed by Gingrich and Kemp.

Bill Clinton, brilliant president economically. However he didn't exactly wow me with his views on faith based fundings and environmentalism. Oh yeah, no matter what republicans say, the man was a hawk too.

Wesley Clark, man was a speaker for Bush as recently as last year.

List of Socialists/Progressives:

Paul Wellstone, the man was so far left, I was worried he'd be kicked out for "un American" activities

Noam Chomsky, this guy is almost a communist

Ralph Nader, for corporate and environmental reform. Oh yeah, any of you idiots who blame him for Gore winning but not being President in 2000, why not use your energy on trying to get it so our leaders must get in with the most votes, eh?

[Rich Hunt]

19. more on this subject

Difference between progressives and liberals?

Progressives might remember this song:

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hack/sleaze/love_me_liberal.html

Love Me, I'm a Liberal
By Phil Ochs

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every coloured boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the AFL-CIO board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New Republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the Democratic Party.
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Or how about this updated version, courtesy of Jello Biafra:

I cried when they shot John Lennon
Tears ran down my spine
And I cried when I saw "JFK"
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X and Ice-T had it coming
They got what they asked for this time

CHORUS
So love me, love me, love me
I'm a liberal

I go to pro-choice rallies
Recycle my cans and jars
I'll honk if you love the Dead
Hope those funny grunge bands become stars
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far

CHORUS

I cheered when Clinton was chosen
My faith in the system reborn
I'll do anything to save our schools
If my taxes ain't too much more
And I love blacks and gays and Latinos
As long as they don't move next door

CHORUS

Rush Limbaugh and the L.A.P.D.
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand where they're at
Arsenio should set them straight
But if Neigborhood Watch doesn't know you
I hope the cops take your name

CHORUS

Yeh, I read the New Republic(an)
Rolling Stone and Mother Jones too
If I vote it's a Democrat
With a sensible economy view
But when it comes to terrorist Arabs
There's no one more red, white and blue

CHORUS

Once I was young and had an attitude
Stickers covered the car I drove in
Even went on some direct actions
When there weren't rent-a-cops to be seen
Ah, but now I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in

P.S. Chomsky is an anarchist.

[0007]

57. Chomsky is an anarchist.......

If your not joking your full it my fine feathered friend.

[Terwilliger]

60. he actually is

but it's more along the lines of "Libertarian Socialism"...it is a form of anarchism in that individuals are asked to take the responsibility of the society, so it's a benevolent anarchism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

[JackSwift]

12. Progressives are the sort of people

who are afraid of being called liberal. They are afraid to get in a political debate with someone from the political right. They are terribly timid folks, but have very strong opinions. In my experience, they believe that they must first defeat people who disagree with them on the left, before they ever consider taking on the right. The word 'wussy' comes to mind.

[Rich Hunt]

18. The REAL definition of "progressivism"

I am tired of seeing this notion on DU that people who call themselves "progressive" are "afraid" of being called liberal.

This has no basis whatsoever in history.

Progressivism in politics goes back to the late nineteenth century. It came out of an era of reform, and has always had the connotation of being grass-roots, anti-elite, reformist, anti-corporate.

Dr.Funkenstein is exactly right.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/pr/progrsvsm.html

See also Wikipedia's brief explanation, which nails it:

Progressive is a term often used by those on the political left to describe their beliefs. This term is preferred by many over the more traditional label in American politics, liberal, because of the association of 'liberal' with the centrist politics of many Democratic Party politicians in recent years. The term "progressive" is thus used to avoid confusion between the politicized term "liberal" and genuine philosophical views focused on social change.

This is particularly useful when dealing with philosophical positions, since the liberal tradition has very particular and fixed Enlightenment connotations that may not necessarily have any useful meaning in the Left political scene.

The term has its origin in American politics in the early part of the twentieth century. During this period, known as the Progressive Era, many reforms were enacted. Some third-party presidential candidates ran for office during this time under the Progressive Party label, notably Robert M. La Follette, Sr.. The Progressive Party of Canada also briefly rose to prominence in the 1920s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Progressivism has a very clear activist connotation that "liberalism" does not have. Those who refer to themselves as "progressive" tend to be further to the left than the term "liberal" will allow.

For a good sense of this definition, have a look at The Progressive magazine, which has been around since 1909, and which has existed under that name since 1929.

For nine decades, The Progressive has been a courageous voice for democracy, peace, social justice, civil rights, civil liberties, and environmental awareness.

For nine decades, The Progressive has denounced corporate power and decried U.S. support for brutal regimes abroad.

The Progressive was in the forefront of the battle for women’s suffrage and for the abolition of child labor.

The Progressive led the fight to stay out of World War I.

The Progressive railed against the Palmer Raids in the early 1920s.

The Progressive championed the unemployed during the Depression.

The Progressive has opposed nuclear weapons from August 1945 to the present.

<...>

http://www.progressive.org/history.html

I don't think anyone calls her/himself a "progressive" because they're too cowardly to use the word "liberal". "Progressive" connotes a very policy-specific, policy-aware agenda, whereas "liberal" for many is too vague and philosophical - there are hawkish, pro-elite types who refer to themselves as "liberals".

If anything, maybe progressives are people who shy from the word "socialist" to describe their politics.

They are afraid to get in a political debate with someone from the political right. They are terribly timid folks, but have very strong opinions.

On what planet is this true? Maybe on planet DU, but not in the realm of progressive activism.

[economic justice]

36. dymaxia nailed it

There you have it. Thanks dymaxia. Someone posted a list of links to "progressive" sites a couple of weeks back and it was clear as I read those sites that they were very different from the traditionally "liberal" point of view. That same post also pointed out that "progressive" has a very definite political meaning, one that is not up for interpretation. dymaxia nailed it with that excellent summing up of the "progressive" label.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. That Was My Point - Not Fear Of Liberalism

I'm a proud liberal, but so are my parents. They don't think much of social change, but they embrace a generally liberal worldview of social justice and such - alot of which has to do with personal freedom from discrimination, the right to choose, etc.

Progressives, I imagine, tend to be a little more scholarly and think of crap like media conglomeration. Not that there aren't plenty of ignorant folk that consider themselves - are - progressive. People with political visions that penetrate about as deep as a Rage Against The Machine song (who I am not knocking). I actually tend to think that progressives lean more easily towards conspiracy theories.

As far as PC language, you can say whatever you want, but I think you'll sound like an ass trying to score cheap points. Alot of anti-PC talk is just a cover for bigotry. I don't think Howard Stern is a champion of free speech. I think he's a prick.

I've got a potty mouth myself, but I don't find it very useful to call Ann Coulter a whore. Honestly, I don't even like when people say "nigga." I think of Richard Pryor when he went to Africa, and swore he would never use the term again.

In any case, I consider myself a liberal until I started reading up on some of the stuff Nader brought up in 2000, and now I consider myself a progressive (although Nader pissed me off in 2000).

[QC]

42. Excellent answer! Thanks for shooting down the self-congratulatory

bullshit about the unstinting bravery and purity of heart of those who call themselves liberals.

For a lot of us, the problem with the word "liberal" is not the negative connotations given it by conservatives, but the ineffectual bourgeois connotations given to it by many liberals themselves.

[JanMichael]

44. Hmm. I tell everyone that I'm a Socialist.

I also say I'm a Progressive as well as "Libertarian" when it comes to personal proclivities.

Plus I never back down from an political argument, public arguments, from anybody.

I suppose in the narrow confines of American political labelling I'm a Liberal.

:shrug:

[aeon flux]

14. The difference

'Liberal' has been turned into a word that has negative connotations in the mind of most.

The word progressive hasn't as far as I can tell.

For one, the word itself has a natural positive connotation to it so is difficult to slander. I think it might be a wise move for 'the Left' to make begin making regular use of the term 'progressive' to identify itself. It might help the left to shed an age old identity crises. We need to take ownage of our identity and hence our image. Or the Right will do it for us (with less than flattering consequences).

[union_maid]

17. It used to be pretty clear

Back in the late 60's, early 70's, liberal was what you were if you were in favor of what we roughly call the Democratic agenda now - civil rights, backed up by strong protections under the law, progressive taxation, rehabilitation for those convicted of crimes, prisoners' rights and in general being a kinder and gentler nation. Welfare was a huge area that separated the liberals from the conservatives. Liberals tended toward being doves on the Vietnam war, although not necessarily so in its early stages.

"Progressive" was a term that people to the left of liberals used to describe themselves and others with similar politics. They were often thought of as radical by the general population. Norman Lear was a liberal, The Nation was progressive. The NAACP was liberal, the SDS was progressive.

[lcordero]

20. I prefer "Progressive" or "Leftist"

I'll quote Stan Goff on this one, "I should say that I am not a liberal. I find most liberals to be conservatives who want to be forgiven."

http://truthout.org/docs_03/073103A.shtml

[minto grubb]

21. Liberals v. Progressives

If you want to look at it that way, yes. I can see where you are coming from, and there is more to being progressive than just agreeing with what we all signed up to in the 60s and 70s.
Liberalism, to me, implies personal freedoms. Equal opportunities, etc. Progressive implies that we are looking at further advances. I think there is a case for making the distinction.

[DeepModem Mom]

23. "Liberal" has been alternative and balance to "conservative"...

And we need the word now more than ever, with virtually all power on the conservative side. I think we should own the word "liberal," and restore its credibility. If we can, I believe it's possible that a majority of Generation Y might wish to call themselves liberals.

[Iverson]

24. yes, and here's how

If you want my unqualified opinion (and you have read this far) ...

Liberalism works within an existing system, with an emphasis on achieving political change through legislation.

Progressivism may or may not work within an existing system and therefore may have strategies that go outside of legislation. Think of it as friendly radicalism or radical lite.

:donut:

[mmonk]

25. Note the root word

of progressive.

[economic justice]

38. Note the root word of conservative

Do they push an agenda of "conserving"? Political terms must be placed in their historical context.

[CWebster]

26. Liberals adopt progressive issues

once it is conventionally acceptable to do so.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. they are synonymous

liberal - Synonyms: advanced, broad, broad-minded, progressive, radical, tolerant, wide

Related Words: forbearing, indulgent, lenient

Contrasted Words: rigid, rigorous, strict, stringent; dictatorial, doctrinaire, dogmatic, oracular; conservative, reactionary

[CWebster]

28. they are not.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. according to every dictionary and thesaurus i have read they are

Entry Word: liberal
Function: adjective
Text:
1
marked by generosity and openhandedness <a liberal allowance for his son>
Synonyms: bounteous, bountiful, free, freehanded, generous, handsome, munificent, openhanded, unsparing
Related Words: exuberant, lavish, prodigal, profuse; benevolent, charitable, eleemosynary, philanthropic
Contrasted Words: closefisted, miserly, niggardly, parsimonious, penurious, stingy, tight, tightfisted; meager, scanty
Antonyms: close
2
Synonyms: PLENTIFUL, abundant, ample, bounteous, bountiful, copious, generous, plenteous, plenty
3
not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms <modern young people usually have a liberal attitude toward sex>

Synonyms: advanced, broad, broad-minded, progressive, radical, tolerant, wide

Related Words: forbearing, indulgent, lenient

Contrasted Words: rigid, rigorous, strict, stringent; dictatorial, doctrinaire, dogmatic, oracular; conservative, reactionary
Antonyms: authoritarian

Thesaurus Symbols
* generally or often considered vulgar
|| usage restricted; consult a dictionary for more information

Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

[CWebster]

30. By that definition

it is comparable to "radical"

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. yes: advanced, broad, broad-minded, progressive, radical, tolerant, wide

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Radical Isn't Pejorative

It comes from the word root.... Radicals want to make root or fundamental change....

Liberals want to maintain the current system and excise it's inequities....

Conservatives want to maintain the current system as is....


Reactionaries want to change the system but in a rightwards direction....

IMHO, the current junta in Washington is reactionary not conservative....

[Isome]

49. Thanks for clearing that up!!

In the political world it is the RIGHT who made "radical" a pejorative.

[Rich Hunt]

32. doesn't matter

Within a political context, they have different connotations.

[economic justice]

37. Political terms need to be placed in a historical context

A dictionary definition won't do in politics. Popular use political labels have to be placed in a *political* and historical context. Once that is done it is clear there *IS* a difference between a "liberal" and a "progressive".

[Armstead]

41. Yep with some amendments

I would say liberals focus less on economic structural issues, while progressives are looking more to basic reform.

Also progressives often have some conservative beliefs mixed in, such as a preference for decentralization and community-level action over centralization and big bureaucracy.

[Northwind]

43. The difference

Liberals are people who use logic and facts to come to a conclusion about any issue, they are non-dogmatic, do not feel a need to attach OR avoid labels, and are intellectually independent.


The people that call themselves "progressives" are, generally speaking, shrieking harpies who use dogma and knee-jerk reactionism to push an agenda no less poisonous than that fronted by the "conservatives." They are hypocritical to a fault and the only difference between them and the people they claim to hate are the names they call them.

[Iverson]

45. troll, troll, troll your boat

gently down the screed ...

[Northwind]

47. When you can't refute, say "troll."

Pathetic.

[Iverson]

48. When you can't argue coherently, insult.

"Pathetic."

[BurtWorm]

50. Shrieking harpies? Poisonous agendas? Hypocritical to a fault?

I thought I was progressive, but I don't want to be a poisonous shrieking hypocritical harpy.

Nice logic and lack of dogma you got there, lib.

;)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. You Are Ripping These Words From Their Historical Moorings,

and conflating dictionary definitions, every day usage, and your own prejudices....

Here's some judgement free definitions that most informed folks would embrace:

Progressives want to make structural change in the system.


Liberals want to maintain the current system but perfect it by removing it's inequities.

[Triana]

53. subtle differences, one example:

'minimum wage' - Liberals/Democrats want to raise the minimum wage.

Progressives are more likely to support a living wage, than a minimum wage. That is, whatever the minimum a family of 4, for example, can live on without being in poverty - whatever that hourly or weekly dollar amount is, would be the minimum employers are allowed to pay.

Subtle, but important difference, as minimum wage hardly is a living wage.

I'm more a progressive than a 'liberal' but there is no Progressive Party - there should be...but there isn't, as yet.

If 'liberals'/Democrats, (and I've said this all along) were really smart, they'd take up wholeheartedly the cause of Progressives/Greens and create an all-inclusive Democratic/Progressive party that includes all those ideologies. But, the 'wobblycrats' (as Jim Hightower calls them) don't have the gumption to do that, for some reason.

Go figure.

[DrFunkenstein]

54. But Progressives Want To Kick Out Conservative Dems

Like Lieberman and Miller. I figure if the conservatives can bring together Christian fundamentalists and money-worshipping supply-siders, we can at least make room for some centrists. The problem with liberals/progressives is that they are too often wrapped up in political purity to be effective. They'd rather argue why they are right than build bridges and find common ground.

[0007]

58. I think it's you that rather argue!

[DrFunkenstein]

59. No I Don't

It's you.:P