Make them film the return of our honored dead!

[skip fox]

The news media has not been allowed access to film the returning coffins and body bags from Iraq. We need a campaign to reverse this order. I suggest a message like the following:


Here are our honored dead returning to their native land after paying the ultimate sacrifice for their country, and they are being denied the simple respect of their countrymen witnessing their final homecoming. For what reason? To shield the unsavory cost of war from the American public and thus more easily control the public debate.

[rainy]

1. Can I copy and paste

your words as my own and send them to my local papers?
Nicely put.

[skip fox]

4. Of course

n/t

[Chubbles]

2. Sounds to me like...

you mean to use these "honored dead" as tools for changing the minds of people who might support the war. Perhaps a noble idea (to change their minds) but certainly a Machiavellian methodology.

[skip fox]

3. Nothing Machiavellian if one wants these people honored.

Just because it will have a desired political benefit, doesn't make it coldly manipulative.

[Chubbles]

6. I would call this...

a "clever" idea, in the age-old tradition of damning with faint praise.

In reality- I don't really care if they're shown or not- perhaps my sympathies lie with the families and perhaps they should be the ones to decide.

[skip fox]

7. To be accurate . . .

It's usually a good idea to understand an analogy before employing it. "Damning with faint praise" isn't even ballpark. What you might better accuse me of is a hypocrisy of means: I claim I want the coffins to be shown out of reverence when what I really want is to subvert the public support for administration's war effort. More of a bait-and-switch, right? But even this I do not feel is accurate. Let me lay it out as follows:

The administration has disallowed the filming of coffins returning from Iraq. The reason is obvious, such footage nightly or weekly might erode support for a war whose purpose has never been convincingly articulated. So what's the problem of not showing them?

We are not allowed to see and to pay our respects to our honored American dead, those who have proven their regard for us by paying the ultimate sacrifice, upon their final return to their native land.


To be honest, I am disturbed with the situation in this order:

1. The administration has infringed on free access/speech by not allowing what every other administration has allowed ;
2. I am unable to witness the return of these young Americans and pay my respects;
3. The administration is able to "hide" the cost of the war, since only such visuals make the quantitative human point.


I hated the fact that we went in, but now that we're in I wish us the very best. Otherwise havoc might occur throughout the region. But I want us doing it honestly, with a full appraisal of what it costs. Only then will such adventurism in the future be fully considered in light of human costs.

[Clark Can WIN]

8. Operation Ignore

Isn't working, except for Bush.

Ignoring these poor people on their final return in order to sanitize the war for shrubbie is an insult.

[E Pluribus Unum]

9. A few facts are in order here. This ban on filming

the body bags at the Air Force base where they arrive
was put into effect 12 years ago to protect the privacy of grieving
friends & relatives of the dead. This is not a new order from the WH.

[Oilwellian]

14. Yes, interesting you mention that...

Since it was Bush's father who changed the rules for the first Gulf War. Have you heard lately about the thousands who died from that war after they returned home?

[E Pluribus Unum]

17. What thousands died?

[RapidCreek]

22. These thousands...

For a guy who likes to get facts in order.....you seem ignorant of quite a few.

http://www.imt.net/~mtpatriot/gulfwar1.htm

RC
VET

[E Pluribus Unum]

28. Bunch of crap RC. You believe anything you read?

[RapidCreek]

21. Not exactly. Get your facts straight before you put them in order.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55816-2003Oct20.html

<snip>

....Since the end of the Vietnam War, presidents have worried that their military actions would lose support once the public glimpsed the remains of U.S. soldiers arriving at air bases in flag-draped caskets.

To this problem, the Bush administration has found a simple solution: It has ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography of dead soldiers' homecomings on all military bases.

In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein airbase or Dover base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains.

A Pentagon spokeswoman said the military-wide policy actually dates from about November 2000 -- the last days of the Clinton administration -- but it apparently went unheeded and unenforced, as images of caskets returning from the Afghanistan war appeared on television broadcasts and in newspapers until early this year. Though Dover Air Force Base, which has the military's largest mortuary, has had restrictions for 12 years, others "may not have been familiar with the policy," the spokeswoman said. This year, "we've really tried to enforce it."....

<snip>

RC

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. when did it happen?

when did it become standard that the 'public' become a requirement of our private lives,

when did a media appearance become wedged in between calling relatives and the funeral home director. where has privacy gone?

if any of these families wants to include the public in their greif, i'm sure we will see any hear it, over and over. until then, let them alone.

[Oilwellian]

11. There's nothing "clever" about the war dead

If you took off your rose-colored glasses you'd see they actually do exist. You can't change that FACT. It was a ritual of this country during past wars to visually see and honor the war dead returning home. Can you explain why you are against this now and degrade it to nothing but politics? You must be quite young if you don't CARE about seeing the realities of this war and the costs as a nation. WE ARE THE FAMILIES of the returning war dead.

[RapidCreek]

12. Clever?

I don't know about clever. It seems logical, in light of Mr. Bush's arguments concerning the liberal media filter. After all, according to Bush the liberal media filter is preventing us from seeing the "good things" and "positive things" as they regard the war in Iraq....so it naturally follows, then that our heroic soldiers return to their homeland....abliet cold dead and mangled....is a good thing. I agree with Bush....such a good thing should most definitely bypass the liberal media filter.

The same could be said of "good things" like this:



Mr. Bush has successfully argued War is a much better thing than diplomacy. If war is a "good thing" then the elements of which war is composed must be "good things" as well. Dead bodies for instance. How can we as a populace be denied the privilege of viewing the good fruit of our virtuous convictions and faith in Mr. Bush? I must concur with our president....it isn't fair.

RC

[Jacobin]

10. Sounds to me like you support

repressing the media to keep the cost of the war (dead soldiers) from the view of voters so as to manipulate the public into supporting a war which we are losing. (a la Vietnam)

That's machiavellian and Pravdaesque.

[Tim4319]

5. No, no, no....

They feel it would do a much greater honor by showing all of the businesses and schools that are opening over in Iraq! That is something the american people should see! NOT!

[RapidCreek]

15. Yea schools are opening!!!! YEYYYY

Do you suppose the little girl pictured above will be going to school? How about the people piled up behing the man who is holding her in his arms.....will they? Tell you what chief.....I'll drop by and murder your child. Then I'll open a school.....In the scheme of things I guess I'd be a real swell fella eh?

RC

[Jacobin]

25. I'm assuming you support conquering nations you don't like

Out of the dozens of other countries that the repukes don't like, which are the next ten that you would like to invade, conquer, occupy and "americanize" for "their own good".

Are you gonna be in favor of raising taxes to pay for it? Or will you be in favor of continuing to go deeper in debt and borrow more money to conquer the world?

Just asking.

If your post was sarcasm, nevermind.

[Nlighten1]

13. We need some DU'ers from the Delaware area to go and film this

Who here lives near there and can film them? I'm 11 hours away from Dover. I am considering taking some vacation time and driving out there to make a movie.

[proud patriot]

16. Letters to the editor folks

we all should try and get a simple
letter to honor the dead returning home .

[skip fox]

18. Exactly, and thanks for e pluribus for the facts.

I was wading in fast and loose, but if we have the facts right such letters will be less easily deflected.

Again, I don't wish these images to impede our efforts toward a free Iraq, but I hope it will stop these Neo-Cons in their freakin' tracks before they begin another wone of these.

There should be enough good and strong (and solemn) language in this tread to give everyone ideas about how they might write their local papers.

[skip fox]

19. More facts: leftchick just posted this in LBN:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031103/ts_nm/iraq_usa_coffins_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

<snip>BERLIN (Reuters) - The U.S. military said on Monday it was sticking to a policy forbidding television camera
crews and photographers from filming coffins of soldiers killed in Iraq (news - web sites) at a U.S. air base in
southwestern Germany.

Officials at Ramstein, a major U.S. air base which serves as a transfer point, had allowed media access in the past
to honor guard ceremonies and transfers of American-flag covered coffins onto U.S.-bound military transport planes,
but rules banning coverage were strictly enforced just before the Iraq war began.

While U.S. officials say the policy was created out of respect for relatives, others criticize the lack of media access,
arguing its aim is to prevent the public from seeing large numbers of coffins that could turn opinion against the war.

"You can argue both sides," said one U.S. official who asked not to be identified. "Some say Americans need to see
this, this is factual and the public needs to see (the coffins). Yet you also think of the mom of a killed soldier and the
trauma of seeing television pictures of her son being repatriated."

[skip fox]

20. But, wait, did Clinton resind the order during his administration?

Caledesi posted this.

[RapidCreek]

23. See post #21 if you want FACTS.

Pay CLOSE attention to EXACTLY what is written. Keep in mind that policy is policy.....it is NOT law. The President is the Commander and Chief of the US military. NOT the Pentagon. The Pentagon enforces the policies the Commander and Chief instructs them to enforce...nothing more...nothing less. With one exeception, Rethuglican Presidents enacted ever broader policy as it regards limiting media documentation of repatriation...With NO exception they have instructed the Pentagon to enforce it.

RC

[skip fox]

24. Okay, great. I take this in good spirits. We need to know the history of

this. But the article is circumspect concerning Clinton's policy. If we attack the policy, we need to attack it when Clinton may have used it.

But this policy can change if a stink is made (and that's my point!). It's shameful not to have the opportunity to pay our collective last respects to these young people as they return to our shores. It's even more shameful that the reason given is "respect for greiving families," an obvious ruse indicating little or no respect on the part of the policy maker.

But the real shame is Cheney urging mothers not even to show up at local airports.

[skip fox]

26. Bounce for the night

:bounce:

So what is Bush saying? That the political inconvenience of showing these caskets outweighs the respect and honor we do these young people by solemnly noting their return?


Bush: "We honor them by not seeing them and not thinking about them. We honor their families by not letting you
see their grief. We honor them in the dark, in ignorance, for that is the only fit honor. Let them pass without
mention. It would do no good, after all, and would be a political inconvenience."

You bet.