If you're a Democrat and vote for a Republican, you're not a Democrat!

[trumad]

I'll let you slide on city races but if you vote for a Republican in the big ones then you ain't no Democrat! I bring this up because I heard a piece on NPR talking about a lifelong Democrat who voted for John McCain... Sorry..but Mr. McCain is like a wolf in sheeps clothing and is a Repuke who's not to be trusted!

[blm]

1. Hahah...check the voting records of the candidates.

That could be interesting.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. Who could you possibly be referring to?

or is this just a General observation.

[blm]

14. nope...

although Clark gets alot of grief for his votes in the 80s, Dean voted for Jeffords when he was a Republican. Jeffords is a good man, and a good moderate, but he still voted many times with the GOP majority and most especially on tax issues.

It also begs the question, why didn't Dean vote for the Democrat? Was he/she too liberal? Dean has said in the past that he helped the Gephardt campaign even though Dean considered him too liberal, and said the same about Dukakis. So, if Gephardt and Dukakis were too liberal for Dean, then what was the Democrat who ran against Jim Jeffords?

[dsc]

24. I wouild like a link

You do have one, right?

[blm]

36. It's been up here a few times, dsc.

Don't pretend as if you haven't heard it.

[mzmolly]

44. Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords (I) = Independent.

Not a Republican.

[blm]

46. When Jeffords ran he was a Republican.

Dean even said good things about Republican Con Hogan when he was getting ready to run against Doug Racine(who Dean considered too liberal) the Democrat running for governor in 2002. Hogan ended up running as an independent and Racine lost to Republican Jim Douglas.

[mzmolly]

48. And Kerry voted with Republicans on the war...

For that we HAVE proof.

You have no proof Dean voted for Jeffords do you? By the way I hear he's now considering switching to the Democratic Party. ;)

[Hippo_Tron]

67. I'm guessing that Dean admitted it...

And Jeffords is already a democratic.

[dsc]

47. No I haven't seen it

and as I pointed out I just spent time searching. You made a claim. You need to back it up. This is getting pretty tiresome. I spent the better part of 20 minutes googling for that and came up dry. Now, here you are claiming "it has been posted here before". At the very least could you please supply a year that this happened in so I can do your homework for you. Given that Jeffords ran four times for Senate that would help narrow it down.

On edit I know that in your world I am some evil net nanny sent to make your life hell. But you ask questions that are literally impossible to answer without at least knowing which race you are talking about. The man has run four Senate races. All against different opponents. It is hard to comment on Jefford's opponent much less Dean's opinion of him without knowing which of the presumedly four opponents you are speaking of.

Here, for the record, is what you asked.

It also begs the question, why didn't Dean vote for the Democrat? Was he/she too liberal? Dean has said in the past that he helped the Gephardt campaign even though Dean considered him too liberal, and said the same about Dukakis. So, if Gephardt and Dukakis were too liberal for Dean, then what was the Democrat who ran against Jim Jeffords?

again these questions are literally impossible to answer without knowing which race you are talking about.

[dsc]

37. In trying to do your homework

I still can't find it. Here is one example of why I find this hard to believe.

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/54358

Despite the fact this article is about Jeffords raising money for Dean there is not one word about Dean ever having voted for Jeffords. I have never seen, read, or heard any such thing.

[ibegurpard]

38. The only way to know is if Dean SAID he voted for a Republican

There is no way to check the voting record of an individual citizen. All you can tell from voting records is WHETHER someone voted and possibly their partisan registration. BLM knows that but it doesn't serve her propaganda purposes.

[dsc]

40. and that is exactly what I am asking for

a link where he said he did or at the least where some trustworthy person who has reason to know says he did.

[blm]

49. I never put up propaganda. I call Dean as I see him.

If you can't deal with it or refute it...tough!

As far as the vote for Jeffords, I saw it here at DU during the fights over Dean calling Clark a Republican. Some of the Clark supporters put up the article and link.

Why don't you get it through your skulls that if I WAS the operative you accuse me of being, I'd have all those links downloaded as oppo research and at my fingertips. Instead, I have a toddler usually on my lap who sees Google and wants me to show her monkeys and ducks.

[dsc]

52. I just got done searching

I found the threads you presumedly are speaking of. The only mention of Jeffords in any of them is of Clark supporters comparing what Clark did to what Jeffords did and decrying the difference in reaction on DU. Nothing about Dean supporting Jeffords.

[blm]

58. Well, I didn't imagine it.

It will pop up.

[dsc]

60. I went the extra mile

I asked Clark supporters in P and C to help me track it down. But with all due respect if you are going to make such a contraversial charge it is incumbent on you to have a link. This is no small detail. Heck, you still haven't even given me a specific race to look at. Jeffords ran in 82,88,94, and 00. Could you at least do that much?

[dsc]

65. This is from September 2000

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/sep2000/news02_dem.htm

I can't copy photos so the caption will have to do.

VT Auditor Edward Flanagan (foreground) and State Rep. Bill Lippert (far right) introduced Governor Howard Dean (left rear) to a luncheon cosposored by the National Stonewall Democratic Federation and the Human Rights Campaign at the Democratic National Convention in August. Human Rights Campaign director Elizabeth Birch stands to Lippert's right.

end of quote

Now maybe Dean really voted for Jeffords 2 months later but I doubt it.

[dsc]

71. Is it really to much to ask

that you tell which if this man's four races Dean allegedly voted for him in?

[mzmolly]

45. I dont think he voted for Jeffords either. It's conjecture.

Typical.

[Zynx]

7. I'm too young to have a very established voting record, but...

my parents have a split of 4 and 4 voting for Republicans and Democrats for president over the years. They have voted for some in congressional races too as well as once for governor. However, they really hate Bush so with that in mind, are they not Democrats?

[rucky]

10. They are NOT Democrats!!!!

They're free thinkers.

bah. disgusting.

:eyes:

[Clark Can WIN]

13. Yeah, free thinking

is awful.

[CMT]

11. I would say they are Indpendents

who perhaps lean democratic.

[alexwcovington]

2. Oh come on

McCain is tolerable at least and anyone we're running against him is a crash test dummy anyway.

[Brian Sweat]

3. 20 years ago, I would have disagreed with you,

but today, unfortunately, it is all about party. Republicans do not vote their conscience, they vote the party line. If you send a Republican to Washington today, you can be assured that they will vote to support the party line.

[rucky]

17. We didn't start the game

but it seems like we've gotta play now, eh?

Even when we win, we lose. they still set the agenda & we'll never have a real exchange of ideas. what a waste of a perfectly well-constructed government.

[Ficus]

4. You are

whatever party you are registered to. Ask Zell Miller.

[JanMichael]

6. It's sad when Leftists like myself have better Dem voting records than...

..."True Blue" Dems.

Sad, very, very, sad.

[Dr Satan]

8. didnt clark

vote for a republican?

[RandomUser]

34. As have over 50% of DU'ers

according to one poll conductedon DU some weeks ago.

[Pastiche423]

41. clark voted for

NIXON!, Reagan TWICE and Poppy.

He's a kinda sorta maybe democrat because the repugs din't wanna play w/him.

[wyldwolf]

61. And Clinton twice and Gore once...

..and dem in the mid-terms...

[Pastiche423]

68. Nixon and Reagan

trump EVERYONE ELSE!

They are the worse presidents in my lifetime. They started our country on the course it is on now. And he voted for both of them!!!

[LibDemAlways]

9. I'm with you, Trumad.

I never knowingly vote for a repuke, and I have a tough time with the "I vote for the person not the party" line. If the person is a repuke who is more than likely going to march in lockstep with repuke principles, what's the point?

[TSElliott]

12. Don't think just vote like your told too.

Nice.

[Romulus]

15. what if you vote for a Green?

:shrug:

[Lefty48197]

20. Romulus, I don't think your NRA friends vote for the greens

and I KNOW they don't vote for Democrats.

[xultar]

16. I just don't know what to say...

Wait, Yes I do. That sounds like something a repug would say.
So if you are a white guy and date white women but untimately marry a black woman then you're black.
If you are short but wear high heels then you're tall.
If you're blind but you can drive then you can see.

I actually liked John McCain. I sat next to him on a flight. He's actually a nice guy. He even adopted a young Indian Girl. He's taken some serious hits from the Repukes as well. Anyone who can draw KKKarl Rove's fire is OK in my book.

[trumad]

18. Yah...Nice guy who fully supports Dubya in this unjust war...

If you vote for a Republican in today's partisan climate and you're a Democrat, you're only fucking your party and the Country!

[Selwynn]

29. If you blindly vote for anyone without thinking your f***ing the country.

It's more important to vote for people because you agree with their principles and platform that because they have a little "D" next to their name.

Often times those little "D"s really do not have in mind the true things of the party, and are little more than closet Republicans.

The only way we can control the shape of the Democratic party is by occaisionaly saying a big fat "NO" to the compromising lieing, undermining candidates they hand us.

If a large ammount of democratic candidates are the kind of candidates you think best represent the democratic party, what do you do about it? You don't support them, you make it clear what kind of candidates you do support. You don't help take the party the direction you believe in by blindly suppporting canidates that hold the opposite convictions.

Don't sacrifice your right to have a voice in the direction of the party. Vote intelligently, carefully, and thoughfully and sometimes,. every once in a while, that vote will be for the other guy.


Now, that said, in terms of this presidential election, I've already made it clear that I personally feel the Bush Adminstration is so destructive to the foundations of this nation that I will support anyone or anything that has the best chance of removing him and his crew from power.

[Larkspur]

19. That depends upon the Democrat

I'm not a Rhode Islander, but I watched a bit of the debate between Sen. Lincoln Chaffee, R-RI and his Dem challenger, who was a conservative Catholic. I'm glad Chaffee won re-election. The Dem challenger opposed abortion rights and was basically a rightwinger in Dem Catholic clothing.

[kiahzero]

62. I was just about to bring that example up, btw

And I am/was a Rhode Islander. And for the record, not all Republicans tow the party line; my understanding (living in VA now, so don't get much news about RI) is that the NE Republicans are pissed about what the national party is doing.

[burr]

69. I voted for Zell Miller...

but a vote for Chaffee would of left me feeling more like a Democrat! :kick:

[HFishbine]

21. Glad you made an exception for city races

The democrats here try to out republican the republicans. The result is republican candidates who are more progressive and open-minded.

[tom_paine]

22. If we were still living in the Old American Republic, I'd disagree

But now the Democrats happen to offer us the best chance to stop the Empire before it becomes cemented in place.

So, trumad, I agree utterly.

[leftofthedial]

23. If you're a Democrat and vote for a Green, you're not a Democrat

I couldn't agree more.

[CJIowa]

25. Voting for my first repuke tomorrow

I shouldn't use that tag line for her - she is Christine Hensley running for mayor of Des Moines. It is officially non-partisan, that is why I can stomach this vote. She led the fight for the gay civil rights ordinance a few years back and she is great with neighborhood associations, of which I am a president. She is running against a Democrat who is old money and very boring with no vision - simply supporting the police union at every opportunity. He did not take a lead in the gay civil rights ordinance and did not speak at the Pride festivites, which Christine did. It may do some good to have a LIBERAL republican in some instances, especially if she ticks off her own party.

Just my take as to why I am voting for an admitted repuke tomorrow.

[leftofthedial]

27. I'm faced with a similar situation in my local mayoral race

Wacko John Birch Libertarian asshole who runs as a crank in every election,

or

woman with no experience, no ideas, in WAY over her head,

or

incumbent Repug probusiness professional politician whose biggest flaw is an addiction to new strip malls and shopping malls. he is very connected to community organizations


my decision was to not vote for mayor.

I will NEVER vote for a Repuke. Not for dogcatcher.

[Ficus]

74. Hensley

SUX. She pisses off everyone.

[Runesong]

26. Two words.. "Stragery" :)

Seriously, I know many Democrats who voted for McCain in the last election.

The idea was that Gore was running unopposed, and their vote would better be used to choose a more moderate republican candidate.

[theboss]

56. I seem to recall a Gore opponent

In fact, I am pretty sure I voted for him. Tall fellow. Played a little basketball.

[Selwynn]

28. If you vote your conscience you're a patriot

.. and you don't get to take that right away from me. If you disagree with my voting choices, then we can respectfully disagree. I'm a member of the democratic party because I generally agree with the platform. There aren't many times when a Republican is going to represent views I believe in more fully. But if the race for a sentate seat in my district was between a republican posing as democrat like Joe Liberman or another person who had more ideas I agreed with - I'd for for that person reguardless of what label he had behind his name.

I agree that being a "Democrat" should mean something. It should mean that the majority of the time, you agree with the platform of the party and support its candidates -- but not because its some "moral obligation" but becasue this is the party that generally represents your views 9 times out of 10.

There's nothing wrong with voting for that "other guy" because that's what you feel is the best choice. But if you find yourself voting more for "other guys" than Democrats, its time to reevaluate what party you would be most happy in.

Voting an unquestioning blindly dogmatic party line is ridiculous and is the same kind of all or nothing dogmatism so detestable in the fanatical right. You are not "either with us or with the terrorists." However, if you find that you are "with them" more often that you are "with us" then it might be time to do a little soul searching.

Sel

[xray s]

30. Guilty as charged

I voted for McCain in the Illinois primary because there were no contested races on the Dem side and I knew Bush would be the worst President this country ever had. I voted for Gore in the General election of course, and would have voted for Gore if McCain beat Bush in the primaries.

So take away my membership card and ban me from DU if you have to. But my conscience is clear.

[Spirochete]

70. But...

You didn't vote for a Republican over a Democrat, which is what I think the original poster meant. So it's not the same thing. hehe

[denverbill]

31. Maybe. But what comes first? Ideology or party?

In 1950, Southern Democrats were the conservatives in politics. So would you have voted for a racist asshole just because he had a (D) behind his name?

I've voted for Republicans in my time, but most have been moderate to liberal. It's pretty tought to find a liberal Republican anymore, but I'd rather vote for a liberal Republican than a conservative Democrat.

[mitchum]

32. How about if you vote for a Rockefeller Republican...

who passes himself off as an "outsider Democrat"?

[Zynx]

35. I can see where this is going...

[mitchum]

39. Thank God someone can

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. so sayeth the lord god trumad

will ye ban them from ever voting for a dem again? caste them out into the wilderness and make them wander?

[trumad]

42. Let me make myself clear..er

If TODAY, you vote for a Republican in a National Race, AND...you're a Democrat.....Then You're not a Democrat....Why is that so shocking... What repuke would you vote for over our current canidates? Chaffee, McCain? If these guy's are so wonderful and close to Democratic Ideology then why don't they simply switch parties? Because they're fucking Repukes! I am against everything Republican...Everything... No grey line with me....

[retyred]

54. If Clark gets the nomination

will you vote for him? Since he voted Republican in your eyes he's not a Democrat, so how would you vote?



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[kyrasdad]

43. True, old time Republicans aren't the problem...

When the Republicans got hijacked in the 80's by the neo-cons and Christian right, that's when the real problems began. Most old time repubs could give two shits what anyone does in thier own homes, on thier own land. They are just really, really, really, really anti-tax and pro-business.

My first presidential election I voted in I voted for Mondale and Ferraro, mainly because I think we need a woman in the Whitehouse. In 88 I voted for Bush... couldn't bring myself to vote for Dukakis... HOWEVER... I wanted Gore, who got bumped out by Hart, who got his hands caught in Donna Rice's cookie jar, leaving the field open for Dukakis.

Also, while MOST Repubs will vote in lockstep, especially in the past 10 years, one has to remember Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins... they vote how they feel, not how Bush Inc. sez they should. Lincoln Chafee is another fairly independent thinker.

Democrats will vote all over the place. It's kind of in our DNA. We as a group tend to think about what affects our familes and ourselves before we cast a vote, not just flip the Dem lever because... And sometimes, the lever gets flipped for a Repug.

Lastly... if you vote for Zell Miller are you a Democrat?

[quaker bill]

50. Never voted republican never will

The Republican party is the largest racketeer influenced corrupt organization in the country. La Cosa Nostra does not hold a candle to them. They are the true professionals at this craft.

Even when a democrat tries corruption they do it for petty cash and get caught, or worse yet lose money. You can't beat the republicans for skills such as these.

[Ardee]

51. How absolutely silly of you

Lets all come up with a number of questions to ask of anyone registering democratic, a litmus test of loyalty. That way you and the other twelve folks who qualify will have a nice quiet party to yourselves.

Once again, it is the responsibility of the candidate to attract the voter, not , as trumad continually states, the responsibility of the voter to blindly pledge h/her vote to a party regardless of who that party chooses to nominate for office........

[trumad]

53. Sorry..but I disagree

if you vote for the party of Bush then you're a repuke, pure and simple!

[burr]

55. What about Bill Wyatt....a peace Republican??

And he's already on the ballot in Missouri.

<http://www.politics1.com/othergop04.htm#wyatt>

A true traditional Republican. No bs, and out to give shrub some real trouble in the primaries.

Here are Wyatt's principles...1)No New Wars: The core issue to the Bill Wyatt campaign is to promote an anti-war philosophy.

"We need to stop the military expansion and promote peace. I do not believe that our international efforts are sincere. If we spend the same effort solving problems at home as we spend making the world serve our interest, then we and the world would be in better shape."

2) Virtual Government: Bill Wyatt is creating an online Alternative Government Network by using a message board to encourage the public to help build his administration.
"By discussing issues directly we will get a wide-range of people to execute our platform. The Internet is an open door to the future of democracy."

3) Free T-shirts: Bill Wyatt is offering free promotional t-shirts (shipping not included).

"I plan to get my message out using t-shirts. I would rather distribute editorial based t-shirts than to spend money on inane, self-promoting advertisements. Most of the designs are message based graphics and political commentary that relate to the last two years of the Bush hegemony."

4) Bill Wyatt is maintaining a daily blog/journal of his personal experience in the election process.

"This will provide a first hand view of my adventure through the American political system."

5) Bill Wyatt is limiting the maximum donation per individual to $250 and providing an incentive for donations.

"I plan to wear a leather jacket for each state and I will put a 2 X 3 inch patch on the jacket for every donation that is the maximum donation of $250. The maximum donations will be limited to the surface area of the jacket itself."

Other positions:

1) Limit school testing.
2) Guarantee college level education.
3) Guarantee healthcare and medicine.
4) Guarantee a secure retirement.
5) Decriminalize the Internet.
6) Replace consumerism as our dominant industry.
7) Regain our civil rights.
8) Develop our economy at home first.
9) Reduce our military expansion.
10) Protect our borders at home first.

[trumad]

57. The guy's a fucking goofball

He just ran in the California recall race and now he's running in the Missori Race... Pleeease!

[burr]

59. I said he's got on the ballot in Missouri...

getting on the GOP primary ballot isn't very easy, especially if you're a liberal. I also happen to know this guy, he's a strong opponent of the Millennia Act...used to prosecute little girls and boys who download MP3s off the internet! He is also opposed to new recently passed government regulations that would require producers and importers of computers to put in a special chip that would prevent people from doing this in the future!

To you freedom may be goofy, but to me..it is a necessity of life!

[trumad]

63. Did you ask him why he's a fucking Republican?

If he's all that then why does he belong to that facist party? Is he out to trick the dumb ass repukes? Is that his strategy? Again...ask him what redeeming value the Republican Party contributes to society?

[burr]

66. Why ask something that's obvious??

both parties have been corrupted by corporations..both need activists working to bring new ideas and reform to these ancient parties.

The leaders in both political parties supported the Millennia Act..despite the wishes of the majority! The political leaders in both parties supported the IWR against the will of the voters in both parties. And the political leaders in both parties have done nothing to bring us national healthcare, despite the popular support of the people for this!

The two-party system has failed us, and the political leaders in both parties must be thrown out!

[michaelbmoore]

64. If you're a Democrat and you vote for

Zell Miller, what the H*** does that make you!!

[mcd1982]

73. This thread reminds me...

of a quote:

"The Democratic Party at it's worst is better for this country than the Republican Party at it's best"

-- Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President of the United States

[Wellong]

72. Good thing

your giving me a pass on "city elections" because I voted for a republican for mayor today.

Explanation here.
http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=625381

Post #12