Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Dean's gay rights record according to Vermont gays and lesbians

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:34 PM
Original message
Dean's gay rights record according to Vermont gays and lesbians
via their paper of record OITM. The following has been posted not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, not five times, but over a half dozen times. Posters who claim that Dean supporters never have posted his are telling you tales they like. They are not tell you facts. For the record, yet again, this is OITM about Dean.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jun2000/news06_dean%20.htm
start of quote

Dean, a Democrat, has served as Governor since 1991. Prior to succeeding Gov. Richard Snelling, who died unexpectedly in office, Dean served as Lieutenant Governor and represented Burlington in the Vermont House of Representatives. Dean, a physician, is married to Dr. Judith Steinberg, and has two children.

As Governor, Dean has historically sided with Vermont’s gay and lesbian community. He is credited with helping pass, and ultimately signing into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He also supported the extension of benefits to the domestic partners of Vermont State employees. In 1994, Dean appointed Bill Lippert, an openly gay man, to fill a vacant seat in the House of Representatives. As a result of the state’s new civil union law, national gay newsmagazine The Advocate recently dubbed him the “Dean of unions.”

OITM: Immediately after the Supreme Court’s Baker ruling, you sided with domestic partnership legislation. How did you come to make this decision and what role do you think your position played in the ultimate outcome of the debate?



end of quote

The story the Dean bashers like to tell is that Dean never supported gay rights until he had to. The truth, as told by Vermont gays is that "Dean has historicly sided with the gay community".

The story that Dean bashers like to tell is that Dean never passed or signed any pro gay legislation until civil unions in 2000. The truth, as told by Vermont gays, is that "Dean is credited with helping pass and ultimately signing into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation".

The story Dean bashers like to tell is that Dean never acted administratively to benefit gays. The truth, as told by Vermont gays, is that Dean "appointed the first openly gay house member, permitted joint adoptions by gay couples, and extended benefits to domestic partners."

The story Dean bashers like to tell is that the Vermont Supreme Court decision forced Dean to sign civil unions legislation. The truth, as found in the Vermont constitution, is as follows:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/const2.htm

dtart of quote
72.

At the biennial session of the General Assembly of this State which convenes in A.D. 1975, and at the biennial session convening every fourth year thereafter, the Senate by a vote of two-thirds of its members, may propose amendments to this Constitution, with the concurrence of a majority of the members of the House of Representatives with the amendment as proposed by the Senate. A proposed amendment so adopted by the Senate and concurred in by the House of Representatives shall be referred to the next biennial session of the General Assembly; and if at that last session a majority of the members of the Senate and a majority of the House of Representatives concur in the proposed amendment, it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to submit the proposal directly to the voters of the state. Any proposed amendment submitted to the voters of the state in accordance with this section which is approved by a majority of the voters voting thereon shall become part of the Constitution of this State.

Prior to the submission of a proposed amendment to a vote in accordance with this section, public notice of the proposed amendment shall be given by proclamation of the Governor.

The General Assembly shall provide for the manner of voting on amendments proposed under this section, and shall enact legislation to carry the provisions of this section into effect.

end of quote

I will not break up the quote and explain the process step by step.

At the biennial session of the General Assembly of this State which convenes in A.D. 1975, and at the biennial session convening every fourth year thereafter, the Senate by a vote of two-thirds of its members, may propose amendments to this Constitution, with the concurrence of a majority of the members of the House of Representatives with the amendment as proposed by the Senate.

explanation

The decision that legalized gay unions was handed down in 1999 which is 24 years after 1975. Thus the amending process could have begun immediately as per the above. An amendment could be proposed, not approved but proposed, by 2/3 of the Senate and a majority of the House. This is the only part of the process which required a supermajority of any kind and only to propose. This could easily have been framed, like Impeachment of Clinton had been in the House, as a vote to "let the people decide" the future of marriage in Vermont. I can't tell you if the 12 votes needed to block this existed in the Senate existed or didn't. But I can tell you all of the following which suggests to me they may well not have. Gay marriage was at 35% in the polls. Vermont was the third state to have a decision like this. The other two amended their constitutions. These, unlike the Dean bashers pleasing tales, are facts.

quote

A proposed amendment so adopted by the Senate and concurred in by the House of Representatives shall be referred to the next biennial session of the General Assembly; and if at that last session a majority of the members of the Senate and a majority of the House of Representatives concur in the proposed amendment, it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to submit the proposal directly to the voters of the state. Any proposed amendment submitted to the voters of the state in accordance with this section which is approved by a majority of the voters voting thereon shall become part of the Constitution of this State.

Explanation

Had the amendment been proposed the legislature elected in 2000 would have been the one to adopt. Civil unions took a beating in that election. The House changed party (Dem to Rep) on that issue alone. The Senate lost some very prominate civil union supporters. There isn't a doubt in my mind that this amendment would have been submitted to a majority of Vermonters by that assembly. That leaves the people of Vermont. Poll, after poll, after poll, even those posted by Dean bashers show that civil unions never, as in not even one time, polled above 44%. The people would have approved the amendment in a landslide.

What I provided you, via Vermont's LGBT paper of record are facts. Not stories I like but honest facts. Ask yourself who knows what they are talking about here. LGBT Vermonters or straights who have never lived in or been in Vermont. I know who I believe. As a teen would say. Duh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. To the mods
I messed up here. I meant to post this in P and C. If this obeys the rules here can it stay and I will simply link it in P and C? Then I can have it both places. IF not can it be moved? Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. So Dean changed his mind between 1986 and 2000?
Howard Dean - Lt Governor of Vt. 1986:

Candidates respond to OITM survey

In early September, OITM sent out questionnaires to candidates for statewide office in Vermont on issues of particular concern to lesbians and gay men. These candidates were informed that the results would be published in our newspaper and that failure to respond would also be noted. What follows are the results of this survey.

Lieutenant Governor: Howard Dean would not support a civil rights bill "aimed specifically at any given group" but he would include lesbian/gay civil rights protection in a broader bill. He did support the HTLV-III anti-discrimination bill sponsored by Micque Glitmen last year. He would support state funding for education and services to people with AIDS and people in high-risk groups. He would support re-instituting the State Human Rights Commission. He was ambivalent about appointing a liaison simply because he wasn't sure if it was necessary because of numerous "friends and supporters" in the gay community.
http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/1986/11nov1986/



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Did you even read my post?
He signed the civil rights bill in 1992, that is 8 years before 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Did you even read your post?
Nowhere in it does it say Dean signed a civil rights bill in 1992.

It does say:

"He is credited with helping pass, and ultimately signing into law, legislation prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation."

Maybe that's what you are talking about? If so how was I supposed to know this happened in 1992? Is this what Dean meant when he said he 'would not support a civil rights bill "aimed specifically at any given group" but he would include lesbian/gay civil rights protection in a broader bill.'?

Let's hear more about this law. I'm all ears. Let's look at the details. Does it show that was a champion of gay rights or just someone who was willing to 'go along' with it?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. sorry you are right
but it is listed first in a chronological list. Thus you should have figured out it was before 1994.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I went to a Dean event
at U of H that my friends at the school were hosting. They are gay, and are expecting progress from Dean on gay rights issues. I do hope he doesn't let anyone down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks for posting this, dsc! It's a good thing I never
pay any attention to all that Dean bashing cause it just turns out
to be All Lies, anyway!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. What You Have Posted Here Is Essentially Meaningless
In the context of what some of us are pointing out... that before the Supreme Court decreed the issue be tended to Dean wanted nothing to do with the issue.

He did NOT champion gay rights or civil unions until he HAD to... and congratulations on him for stepping up to the plate.

However, there ARE liberal politicians who have actively campaigened throughtout their entire career. Dean is NOT such a person.

The information you provide doesn't negate my point. It just blows smoke in an effort to make Dean seem more like an activist than he actually was.

Someone said he gave some speech about Civil Unions BEFORE the Supreme Court took up the relevant case.

I googled to try and find that speech but only found the one Dean gave AFTER the Legislature knew it would be taking up the issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I don't wish to be pissy
but can you even read? I mean really. The entire first part of the post states things he did to advance gay rights before that court decision it goes as far back as 1992. If you posted your post without reading mine then shame on you but if read mine and still posted that nonsense then double shame on you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. The Only Date That You Posted Prior To 1999-2000
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 09:09 PM by cryingshame
Concerns Dean appointing an openly gay man in 1994.

On Edit: Reading up the thread I see you are now referring to some Civil Rights Bill in 1992?

Where is this mentioned in your post anyway?

I will try to google the info...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The Only Civil Rights Legislation In 1992
I've found was in the U.S. House of Representatives.

What Bill did Dean sign or sponsor that was before 1999?

My google skills may not be up to snuff...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. This bill
http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/1992/05may1992/

It Passed!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deborah Lashman
After a long wait and much hard work, the civil rights bill is on its way to becoming law. Vermont is poised to become the sixth state in the U.S., joining Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Hawaii, and New Jersey, in providing civil rights protections for its lesbian and gay citizens.

Final House approval came April 13th, on a vote of 73 to 67 with 9 members voting absent. Initially approved the previous Friday, by a vote of 71 to 58 with 20 members voting absent, the bill survived weekend efforts to derail it.


end of quote

I found this by going to the OITM archives. It was harder than I thought it would be probably due to the age of the bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. It was in 92
I will admit this post doesn't say so but it was. The list is clearly chrnological. and yes 94 is before 2000 last I checked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Nevermind
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 10:09 PM by lovedems
I edited my post because I think I have my dates wrong. OOPS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. So, he didn't have to make a statement supporting it before the ruling.
Or even after. But he did.

http://www.jfklibrary.net/pica_essay_winner_2001_dziczek.html

"In his campaign for reelection to a fifth gubernatorial term, an ambitious Dean would have focused on health care, taxes, or any of a number of "safe" political platforms. However, disturbed by Vermont’s reaction toward gay civil unions, Dean made the "extension of the rights and benefits of the constitution to all Vermonters, regardless of their sexual orientation" (Dean) the heart of his campaign for acceptance and understanding. Over the next six months, Dean fought harder for open-mindedness than for votes. He spoke against the "Take Back Vermont" movement, his most serious Election Day threat, stating that he never wanted to take Vermont back to "a time when it was okay to discriminate against people" (Goldberg). Dean effectively avoided the homophobic trends in political campaigning, but burdened himself with the political plague in popularity polls."



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Not only that
but he was asked not to by the organizations fighting for the right to marry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. I prefer honest, pro-glbt candidates...
But if they're not glbt friendly, that's okay. I'll be sure to fight them any moral way possible and not vote for them ever again. And once that uproar starts, it's funny to then see all the candidates running around like headless chickens claiming they regretted making the decision they made against glbt folk (for they obviously didn't know that there were many glbta people voting for them and don't want to lose all those votes in future elections...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Which of our candidates
do you think is not glbt friendly?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Joe Liebermann :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Lieberman has a terrific record on gay rights
His vote for DOMA is his only blemish. He supported ENDA and a CT state version. He supported letting gays and lesbians serve in the military.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SEAburb Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. And what will Dean do for gay's in the rest of the country? Nothing!
Dean will take a pass and let states deal with the issue. He's to busy going after the redneck vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. flat our false
Dean has stated he is for ENDA, which is a federal gay civil rights law. Dean has stated he if for federal anti hate crime legislation. Dean has stated he is for forcing the states to recognize gay relationships in a way substantively equal to straight ones. All of those are matter of public record and I shouldn't have to do your home work for you. www.deanforamerica.com has the details go find them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. In all fairness
I am certainly no fan of Dean's but after reading your post I went to his website to check his policy statement on GLBT and in this area he seems to have abandoned his state's rights stance because he comes out (no pun intended) for several pro-GLBT federal measures.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_equalrightsforall

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
srpantalonas Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. the problem with Democrats & Civil Unions...
Is their failure to take unpopular positions even when it's the right thing to do. Dean has done the right thing here, and I expect it's for the right reasons.

The Democratic Party does not want this election to be a referendum on civil unions because they view it as a losing issue (note unpopularity above). We have become afraid to lead from a base of principles. But we cannot win or lead by selectively applying democratic principles; our failure to embrace principles-based governance has led us to our current Party malaise. You cannot argue for a living wage based on economic justice and argue against extending health benefits same-sex partners. You cannot argue for equal protection for women and not extend that equal protection to equal protection of same-sex couples. As a party, we must embrace the principles of economic, social, and civil justice and develop solutions informed by them. If we do not make the stand here, then what exactly do we stand for?

America—or rather, the idea of America—stands for equal justice and equal opportunity under the law. It is time we as a country mature beyond our prejudices—however created or informed--and embrace these principles. Introducing federally legal and protected civil unions will not heal all the wounds, will not eliminate all the hate, and will not create equality among all citizens. But it will make a huge step forward, and we must not wait for opponents of equality to become “comfortable” with the idea. Equality among all citizens has never been comfortable, but it has always been right. The Democratic Party is supposed to be the Party of justice, equality, and opportunity. It’s time for us to live up to the principles we are supposed to stand for.

I support civil unions.

http://www.CrystleForSenate.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC