Clark supporters... an honest question

[indigo32]

I think I'm ready to switch from Howard Dean and I really like your guy. I'm not going to go into reasons why I would leave Dean here... not up to the sniping that will ensue. What I wonder though...is to what extent the video tapes of his support for shrub will affect his chances of beating him. Maybe they won't matter at all...I can't say it's a plus in my book but he's got alot of other things going for him. Convince me to join your team?

[jeter]

1. Why switch?

I think the Dems are doing a number on Dean. I was in the same boat as you a couple of weeks ago. But now I definitely back in the Dean column hardcore. I think the other Democrats are trying to win, not by offering new ideas and building up the party. But rather by bringing down the other guy. Same old, same old. Division politics.

This is what is wrong with the Democratic Party, IMO.

P.S. Is that Ani DiFalco (spelling?) in that picture?

[indigo32]

4. Yes that is Ani :)

and you'll notice I'm not courting those that are trying to tear Dean down. No it's just a personal feeling about Deans attitude. Got nothing to do with all the negativity.

[jeter]

19. indigo

I think Dean is playing it smart. He's playing it cool. Letting the others destroy themselves.

I think it would take a miracle for Dean to lose the nomination at this point. He has the clearest shot at winning.

The others have to a) bring him down; b) compete against each other. They will have nothing left over when all is said and done. No money. Dean supporters will feel cheated because of the negative personal nature of their attacks. Bush will have millions in the bank. And we're back with a double-digit deficit.

The smart choice is Dean at this point. He's being a little aloof, but he needs to be. That's the smart thing. Let everyone else destroy themselves. Dean will be there to pick up the pieces.

P.S. Aren't you impressed that I knew Ani? My ex-girlfriend loved her. But I won't hold that against you.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. Oh, COME ON!

I think Dean is playing it smart. He's playing it cool. Letting the others destroy themselves.

Yeah, Sharpton is really destroying himself when he calls Dean onto the carpet.

That is Sharpton's raison d'etre. The only person destroying himself is Dean, by his stubbornness and arrogance on this issue. A simple apology, and it would have been forgotten.

I think it would take a miracle for Dean to lose the nomination at this point. He has the clearest shot at winning.

Umm, no. No one has broken into even the 20% range, nationally. Clark will outraise Dean in Q4 (believe me or not, I don't really care...but it's true). And we'll see what happens with the Unions, Iowa and NH.

The smart choice is Dean at this point. He's being a little aloof, but he needs to be. That's the smart thing. Let everyone else destroy themselves. Dean will be there to pick up the pieces.

Umm, no. The SMART choice for beating Bush is Clark (a military Southerner who will be able to contest the South) and maybe Dean as VP (to get his troops and cash on board). Dean cannot win the South, or even compete. His comments have guaranteed that.

DTH

[jeter]

32. Apology for what???

For saying the Democratic Party should expand its base.

Stop dividing. Start uniting. That's why Dean is smart. Why Clark is falling. Because he's playing this wedge issue game.

Everybody here knows exactly what Dean meant when he made that statement. Yet they have this false sense of indignation due only to the fact that Dean is beating them.

Nothing more. That's what your little make-believe "controversy" is all about. He shouldn't apologize. Let this be Dean's 'Sista Soulja' moment. Standing up to the wedge issue types in the Democratic Party and standing up for what he believes.

That everyone should be included in the Democratic Party.

Not only eastern elitist snobs and their special interests.

Dean played this exactly right. It won't hurt him among Democrats and will only help him in the General.

The only reason you're so angry about it, is because you expect Dean to self-destruct and can not believe that there are people out there who believe in national health care, who think Bush is doing a piss-poor job on the economy and in foreign policy. But who think the Democrats are out of touch.

My opinion. Bravo to Dean. Don't apologize. Stand up, and fight on. You got the bastards worried.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

33. CLARK Is Playing a Divisive Game?

WTF are you talking about? Clark has been one of the most uniting of all Democrats out there.

All I can say is that the young man who called Dean out initially at the debate is emblematic of Dean's larger problems. And Sharpton is not going to let him forget it. Sharpton's attacks on Dean cannot be spun as some kind of positive. Neither can Edwards' attacks.

But if you want to view it otherwise, feel free. I suppose we'll see.

DTH

[jeter]

34. His supporters like you a playing this divisive game

But let me ask you this outright. Change my mind. Why should Dean apologize? What was so wrong about what Dean said? Why is it that every candidate said they didn't believe that Dean is a racist and agreed with the premise of his argument that the party should expand its base?

Explain yourself. Why should Dean apologize? What about his comments were so offensive that require apologies?

[RummyTheDummy]

69. I disagree, respectfully.

My decision to vote for Clark was in part based on the conduct and frankly arrogance of Dean supporters on this board. Talk about turn offs.

[indigo32]

70. I think you should base your support on the candidate

and frankly there aren't too many innocents here.

[CWebster]

48. Sharpton is destroying himself.

The Northeast will not be a handmaiden(troops and cash) to the backwards South...That regional divide works both ways.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

2. They will have zero effect.

Their smear/propaganda effects have already peaked. It seems as though the rightwing have already thrown everything they can at Clark and I'd be very surprised if theres anything else they can dig up (thats actually true and not concocted by Republicans with big imaginations) for future use.

[ryharrin]

14. I disagree with that completely.

Who would have thought Dean would have been come after so dirtily when he was just another guy in the middle of the pack. If clark ever happens to gain the lead, he'll be attacked just as viciously as Dean, by the other dems and by bushco. I can't see how you can be so sure that they're out of ideas when they've barely started.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

18. And I disagree with that.

Dems won't attack Clark as viciously as Dean. Clark is an honorable man who has stayed above the pack as far as attacks are concerned. I can't even imagine another Dem (except for Lieberman), let alone all of them, attacking him.

[jeter]

21. Seveneighty, that's very naive

They will attack him viciously. Remember that week when Clark was ahead? Remember the attacks then...Oh, he's not a real democrat...blah, blah, blah.

I defended Clark then, because I hate negative attacks. Even though I am a Dean supporter.

Now Dean is back on top. And it's attack Dean all the time.

But Clark and his supporters are silent.

Dean is the only one who can win. Clark would make an excellent number two.

[SahaleArm]

36. They'll attack the frontrunner.

Once you're at the top it's better not to attack. Take the high road and gain support; and don't say anything stupid.

[Kahuna]

53. Er.. Jeter... The reason Dean is 'back on top' is because...

he relentlessly attacked Clark. How can you now cry about Dean getting attacked when he came out the door attacking everyone in sight? Dean is even attacking Dems who aren't running and suggesting that voters should clean house because of their lack of effectiveness.

[jeter]

54. SAY WHAT?

"relentlessly attacked Clark?"

That's the funniest thing I heard all morning.

Thanks for the laugh.

[HootieMcBoob]

61. I disagree

If you'll look back I think you'll see that Dean was one of those who was attacking Clark. Clark did not attack Dean last night. He's said that he will not attack another Democratic candidate and he is sticking to his word. I'm a Clark supporter and I have supported Dean on this and think it's wrong to attack him as a racist. He may have worded his idea poorly or it may have been a calculated political decision but he's not a racist and I think it's going to hurt the candidates who have attacked him on this.

[Catch22Dem]

3. I think

The support for pukes will hurt more in the primaries (if at all) and actually help in the general election (if at all.) I have a full-on repuke co-worker who actually likes Clark BECAUSE of those comments. She's never heard a word Clark said, because if she did she'd run back to Bush with open arms, but likes him now because he "shows how to be non-partisan."

I don't know, man, take it for what it's worth, ya know?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. Here's My Thinking on the Videotapes

The RNC will be able to create videotapes of every candidate. With Gephardt it will be him standing in the Rose Garden, supporting the pResident on the IWR. With Dean, it will be him showing scary anger (they already have a commercial like this). With Clark, it MIGHT be him praising Bush.

My take on Clark, though, is that he'll be able to spin it in his favor, indicating that he's open-minded and non-partisan, that he's polite and doesn't consider Republicans to be evil. That will redound to his benefit when it comes time for Independents and Republican-leaners to vote.

I also think Clark's comments can be explained away very easily when you point out that he ROASTED Bush in the rest of his speech, which the GOP conveniently forgot to include.

The thing I love about Clark, electability-wise is that he is a gentleman, and a diplomat, and a Southerner with a military background. It is incontestible that Clark will have a better shot in the South than any candidate except perhaps Edwards. We only need to peel one or two Southern states away from Bush in order to win, and every Southern state where Bush is forced to spend cash to defend himself is less cash Bush will have in other battleground states.

Clark also has Arkansas in his corner, which is otherwise a Republican-leaning state. In contrast, either Dean or Clark can win Vermont, a traditionally Democratic-leaning state.

Finally, Clark hasn't attacked anyone so far this campaign. No other candidate (except perhaps CMB) can say the same.

DTH

[metisnation]

72. good post

It makes sense decoy them with Dean...how could you even question Wesley Clark's patriotism? I dare anyone to refute that.

[Nashyra]

My honest opinion of Clark is

that he will be the best candidate for us to be able to avoid a draft while keeping this country safe. He has foreign policy experience, and he taught economics at one point in time. He has the respect of foreign leaders. His support of * will appeal to the moderates and the swing voters, but I personally don't think it would hurt him in the general election, alot of the moderate * supporters have changed their mind about him and the war.

[Renew Deal]

25. Repugs are jumping ship.

At least the moderates are. I have had republicans see my pin and say... I am a repub that voted for Bush, but I like Clark. Clark is right on almost all the issues, but beyond that you can trust him. He has been in public service for 35 years. He continues to work for the best of the country, the army, his soldiers, or whatever. These candidates all have different backgrounds. Some executive, some legislative, some as activists. Clark's is a combo of executive and military with an amazing education to boot. BTW, Clark has always been the best at everything he has done. From swim team state champ to West Point, to the military. Check out his background here. It is quite impressive. And BTW, he wasn't smoking weed and partying in his 20's.

http://www.clark04.com/records/documents/

[FrenchieCat]

6. None whatsoever.....#1..It's not support per se...#2....Note

That Clark does this with everyone. He gives a compliment, then hits them in the face with a smile on his face.

First you must read the actual speech. What Clark was doing in that speech was being a diplomat (and a damn good one).....i.e., telling them you kinda good at some things....but lousy in so many others.

Here is the speech (parts I feel are a must read)....and here is the link of it's entirety:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004065
here is the full paragraph of contention:
------------------
You see, in the Cold War we were defensive. We were trying to protect our country from communism. Well guess what, it's over. Communism lost. Now we've got to go out there and finish the job and help people live the way they want to live. We've got to let them be all they can be. They want what we have. We've got some challenges ahead in that kind of strategy. We're going to be active, we're going to be forward engaged. But if you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be done. And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office: men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condolzeezza Rice, Paul O'Neill--people I know very well--our president, George W. Bush. We need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in Europe.
----------------------
notice he says he is glad to have them in office for the challenges ahead in EUROPE!

Furthermore, if anyone bothered to really quote what he said and the context you would find that Clark was saying things to the Bush Administration that they truly didn't want to hear. Clark, always the diplomat threw in quite a few jabs at that dinner....
Please note the two paragraphs up from the maligned "praise":
------------------------
But we're also extremely vulnerable. Our economy--we're using three times--we've got three times as much foreign investment as we're investing--capital flow--as we're putting out there. They're investing here because they believe in us. We're using energy like it's going out of style. We're using five to eight times as much energy per capita as people in the rest of the world, twice as much as even the Europeans. We're vulnerable to security threats--everything from terrorism to the developing missiles that are--we know rogue states are developing to aim at us.

And so I think we have to have a new strategy, and we have to have a consensus on the strategy, and we have to have a bipartisan consensus, and politics has to stop in America at the water's edge. We've got to reach out, and we've got to find those people in the world and share our values and beliefs--and we've got to reinforce them. We've got to bring them here and let them experience the kind of life that we have. They've got to get an education here. They've got to be able to send their children here. They they've got to go home. And they've got to carry the burdens in their own lands, and to some extent we have to help them.
----------------------------
notice that in the first paragraph clark talks enviromentalism to a republican audience.
also note the warning about terrorism pre-9/11.
notice in the second paragraph he talks about bipartisanship, and reaching out to the world community. two traits that he shares spot on with his positions today.

in the next two paragraphs he further defines the european challenges:
-------------------------
We've got a NATO that's drifting right now. I don't know what's happened to it. But the situation in the Balkans where we've still got thousands of American troops, it's in trouble. It's going downhill on us as we're watching it. Our allies haven't quite picked up the load on that. But our allies say they're going to build a European security and defense program with a rival army to NATO. Well, I think it's a political imperative that they do more for defense, but I think we have to understand that that linkage between the United Sates and Europe, that bond on security, that's in our interest.
Look, in politics they told me--I don't know anything about politics now, I want to make that clear. But they told me--I read, do my reading in Time magazine and so forth. And they said in politics you've always got to protect your base. Well, for the United States, our base is Europe. We've got to be there, and we've got to be engaged in Europe. And that means we've got to take care of NATO, we've got to make sure the Europeans stay in it, and we've got to stay with the problem in the Balkans, even though we don't like it. We will get it resolved, and we'll help bring democracy and Westernization to those countries there.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Then you have to know....

Clark is the one that can beat Bush, if anyone can.

HOW CAN YOU DOUBT IT....THIS MAN WILL HAVE LI'L OLD LADIES IN LINES AT THE POLL.......PLUS HE'S HUMBLE! (THOUGH I AM NOT HUMBLE ABOUT HIM)

[Kahuna]

16. Yep. The over 50 crowd will flock to the polls to vote..

for Clark. That includes women AND men. I also believe that Clark will do the best to motivate the largest black voter turnout.

[indigo32]

66. My mom... who is a Dean supporter, Clarks age, can't stop swooning over

Clarks looks LOL. Luckily my dad was watching in another room ;)

[Kahuna]

7. They are a non issue with most reasonable people...

Clark said that the last video didn't reveal what all of his comments were. So, I don't know what they were about. The fact is that no matter how Clark felt about bush when those videos were made, he no longer feels the same way or he wouldn't be running.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Kahuna, read the speech...I posted it right above.....

It's important.

[Kahuna]

12. Thanks Frenchie Baby!

:yourock:

[chimpymustgo]

8. Clark's :30 Rock the Vote ad will have more meaning. Trust your gut.

Read up on Clark - and the others. Don't be afraid to take your time to make up your mind. Plenty more debates and appearances by the candidates. I think Clark is great on the issues, and has a personal appeal that makes him a winner.

[VolcanoJen]

26. I watched the "Rock the Vote" event from our local BoE...

... packed with good, young folks doing good work. Repubs, most of 'em, but at least they give a crap and volunteer.

At any rate, we all looked up from time to time while working, but especially when the :30 spots came on, and Clark's spot inspired whoops and hollers among the kids. They smiled and clapped and thought the guy was funny as hell. They ate up the Outkast reference with a fuckin' spoon. It was a beautiful, beautiful thing to see, and at the end of the night, we were doing the knuckle-shake with each other. I've been all smiles ever since.

:D :D :D

You want crossover votes? Wes is the guy. I always thought so before, in my gut, as chimpymustgo so perfectly sums it up, but tonight, it finally felt concrete to me.

[Code_Name_D]

65. I have read up on Clark

And each time, he looks more and more like a PNAC republican. More and more Karl rove talking points keep turning up in his speaces, in his defences.

And I don't by this notion that Clark isn't attacking Dean for the flag flap. It was the Clark appoligist that brought this up in the first place. And the pepole who press it, seem to have Clark banners in there sig lines half the time.

But not every one is so easly distractied by shiny objects such as stars and medeals.

Besides, Isn't Dean just being "by-partisan?" I seem to remeber Clark lionizing Bush and the PNAC team. Even wanting to work with them in the futcher. (Will you hold him to his word there? Proabably not.) But Dean just mentions the confederate flag, and WHAMO, he becomes a racists.

The Claries hand out the hypocracy just as thick as the GOP. Oh, and I spat milk out my nose, laufing so hard when one of these "Dean & the Confederate Flag" folk proved to be a long time Freeper, and got himself tombstoned. Clarkies and Freepers agreeing with each other?

[Birthmark]

9. Hmmm...

Can you imagine Clark v. Shrub in a debate? lol

[Kahuna]

13. Clark is my main man. But ..

Kerry and Edwards would give shrub quite a beatdown in a debate too. Those guys are gooood. I have to hand it to them.

[chimpymustgo]

20. Kahuna, that's my big 3 also.

Wish they could all be on the ticket.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

15. Thats the funniest thought EVER.

I cant even imagine it.
You'd best believe that Bush's handlers will do everything in their power to prevent such a debate from taking place.

[Renew Deal]

27. That's what others say.

They say that they will keep Bush out of debates and away from Clark. Is that a red alert I hear?

[VolcanoJen]

28. If Bush stays out of debates, regardless of the nominee...

... especially if polls show the election as tight-n-close, the press will be all over the Bush camp.

The tide is already turning, and the wave of negative Bush coverage, even in the face of the bogus GDP numbers this week, has blown me away.

If Bush pulls a duck-and-cover come debate time, it will hurt him more than it could ever help him. I'm sure Rove knows that. It still won't help them prepare the Unelected Flight Suit Boy for a debate, which, as we all know, would be absolutely delicious.

Yum,
Jennifer :-)

[Clark Can WIN]

17. OK first on the tapes

I think it will hurt in the Dem race BUT in the General Election it could really , really help. Seriously.

Are you into Enviro issues? Check out this -

League of Conservation Voters Questionnaire http://www.enviros4clark.com/lcv.shtml

[VolcanoJen]

23. Here's what it is about Clark for me.

And I may be hanged out to dry, but here's how I feel.

Clark trancends party politics for me, and the icing on the cake is that he's decided to join up with us and fight our good, good fight. He's a leader with the right stuff, a resume to die for, a man who rose up from his generation to lead, and he stuck with it.

A guy like Clark -- good looks, West Point First Captain, Rhodes Scholar, rapidly-advancing military career -- could have bailed on his low-paying Army career and jumped into the corporate world to make megabucks like most West Point grads do, the second they can get out of their commitment. He stuck it out, though, and chose to make the service of his country his career.

He's a man of honor, dignity and valor. For my money, he's the brightest and best of the candidates, and he'll beat Bush like a rented mule in a general election. He was born to this role, he's the right man for the right time, and dammit, he's absolutely the president I was promised as a kid.

When I stack his career up against that of Bush, I find it even more despicable that this great country has allowed that silver-spoon country-club do-nothing Texas Republican to be elevated to the highest office in the land.

Wes Clark inspires me, and he inspires me to do better in my own personal life, to make my time count more, to find the passion I was born with to serve my country again. I'd lost it, honestly, and it's back now. I've got Clark to thank for that. One day, I hope to meet him, shake his hand and thank him for waking me up.

That's why he's won my vote. I hope he wins yours, indigo32, and thank you for giving us the opportunity to tell you how we feel about our guy. :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. Wes Clark Has Made Me a Better Driver

I kid you not. I have two Clark bumper stickers on my car, and even though I used to get all aggravated when people cut me off, and even though I used to drive quite aggressively, I now keep it cool, because I'd hate for anyone to have a negative association in their minds regarding Clark.

:-)

DTH

[VolcanoJen]

29. Has he made you a better dresser yet, DTH?

}(

[AnnitaR]

37. Wow! What a great post! Thanks. Wes inspires me as well. n/t

[OKNancy]

45. Wow.... I'm saving this

The President you were promised.... that's great. There was a president that I felt that way about when I was a kid. He believed in service to our country and had a way of inspiring everyone. I couldn't wait to be old enough to sign up for the Peace Corps.

My 19 yr old just passed by with her homemade Wes Clark button on!!

[GCP]

49. Clark's looking better and better to this so-far uncommitted Dem

I could even see corporate money going to him instead of * because of the lousy economy he's given this country.

[Justice]

56. I Felt That Way Last Night

When Wes came to Clarkes bar in Boston after the debate and spoke to us.

He does inspire us to be better than we are.


The slogan Wes is More says it all.

[HootieMcBoob]

62. Very well said

Those are my feelings as well. Nice job :)

[HootieMcBoob]

63. Very well said

Those are my feelings as well. Nice job :)

[Donna Zen]

30. The posts above speak for me...Thanks

But there is more:

Bush is planning to run a national security campaign. As much as they may want to run on domestic issues if Clark is the one, they are stuck with no "there" there. That is why the smears have been so vicious and so wacky. Shelton, general of the defense industry, trashing Clark's record, one that few military people can only dream of.

No...national security is off the table. We get to play on our field.

Clark is currently beating bush in the Arkansas polls. Clark can also hold the Gore states and take NH as well. There are roving gangs of retired military up here in the woods.

Clark keeps bush very busy in the South, yes, but he also keeps Bushco working hard in the heartland. Hagel does not like bushco...I don't think Lugar does either. While they would not endorse Clark, they do like him, and will not bust their butts working for bush if Clark was on the ticket.

The military needs to be shaken up. Clark knows exactly how to do that. We absolutely must, must, end the GOP lock on the military. This is far too dangerous a situtation for our country.

Finally----and this is very important---if the regime decides to pull some terrorist attack shit, which is certainly not beyond their insane minds, the country would have to face staying with bushco or moving to an unknown entity. In the case of Clark, and I would suggest only Clark, the country would actually be inclined to consider him more of a security blanket than the chimp. Why? Because in that case, the country can be convinced that the regime failed, and Clark knows more. I don't see any other candidate, including Kerry, being seen as more reassuring than the devil you know.

If the contests today proved nothing else to us, it should have provided evidence that 2004 will not be a cake walk. This election is far too important; we must give it our best shot.

[DrFunkenstein]

31. Although I'm Not Switching, Clark's Still Cool In My Book

If Kerry's gonna go down, I'd rather it be to someone I respect. Now I just have to make sure he doesn't!

[KittyWampus]

58. Clark/Kerry Ticket Would Scorch The GOP

[nomatrix]

35. Clarkapallooza

Clarkapallooza - a concert to bring together great bands in support of Wes Clark - is in the planning stages.

Wes Clark= cool name &
smooth operator

Just taking on a bush with a rhoadie (scholar) from arkansas is poetic justice in itself.

Keeping the younger generation interested is easy as long as the draft threat hangs over them.

He actually puts some hope in my heart, because it's going to take someone extraordinary to turn this misery around.

So can he win? Absolutely, a landslide. I think he'd be a good president. Better than any of the others.

[seventhson]

38. Clark is a Military Corporate Whore Just Like Bush. Sits with Carlucci on

corporate boards and runs with the BFEE.

Go to this site and follow the instructions then click on the Crime and Justice link on the left for a revealing expose of Clark and his ties to the Bushies. (A password and id is provided for free access on the home page as you scroll down)

Clark smiles and looks pretty and says nifty things but he just wants to get in our pants and then f*ck us. Then he will dump us and get back in bed with his fascist paymasters.


http://www.kcandassociates.org/site/

READ dammit and use your brains.

Clark is BFEE.

Excerpt from the lengthy article (I do not necessarily endorse ALL that this guys says but his documented facts about Clark are VERY solid regarding his ties to the Bush insiders - and it is these ties that makes Clark LOOK like a classic BFEE operative):

"General Wesley K. Clark (U.S. Army, Retired) is chairman and CEO of Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a business services and development firm based in Little Rock, Arkansas. He is senior military analyst for Cable News Network (CNN) and is Chairman of the Board of WaveCrest Laboratories, a technology company that specializes in electric propulsion systems that transform electrical energy into mechanical motion. General Clark is a noted speaker presenting key insights on strategic leadership, foreign and military policy and high technology to corporate leaders and other audiences. He serves pro bono as a distinguished senior advisor for the Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS), as a Director of the Atlantic Council, and as a member of the board of the International Crisis Group, Messer-Griesheim and SIRVA Corporation.
______________________________________________________________
Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS): CSIS is led by John J. Hamre, formerly deputy secretary of defense, who has been president and CEO since April 2000. It is guided by a board of trustees chaired by former senator Sam Nunn. Brent Scowcroft chairs the board of governors; and Zbigniew Brzezinski are listed under “members” and the whole list with some background is included here:

Betty Stanley Beene: United Way
Reginald K. Brack: Time Inc., Time Warner, Inc.
William Brock: 1985 - 1987: United States Secretary of Labor 1981 - 1985: United States Trade Representative 1977 - 1980: Chairman, The Republican National Committee
Harold Brown: Secretary of Defense 1977-81
Zbigniew Brzezinski: 1977 to 1981, National Security Advisor to the President
William Cohen: Secretary of defense, from January 1997 to January 2001
Ralph Cossa: Council on U.S.-Korean Security Studies
Douglas N. Draft: Chairman of the board/CEO of The Coca-Cola Company
Richard Fairbanks: Ambassador-at-large under President Reagan, chief U.S. negotiator for the Middle East peace process, and assistant secretary of state for congressional relations. Also served as associate director of the White House Domestic Council
Michael P. Galvin: Assistant secretary of commerce for export administration in the Bush administration,
John J. Hamre: U.S. deputy secretary of defense (1997-1999) and under secretary of defense (comptroller) (1993-1997)
Ben W. Heinemen:
Carla Hills: U.S. Trade Representative from 1989 to 1993. As a member of President; Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development in the Ford administration Bush’s Cabinet,
Ray L. Hunt: Chairman of the board, president, and chief executive officer of Hunt Consolidated, Inc., and chairman of the board and CEO of Hunt Oil Company. Additionally, he serves as a member of the boards of directors of Halliburton Company, PepsiCo, Inc., Electronic Data Systems Corporation, the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and Security Capital Group Incorporated.
Henry Kissinger: Henry Alfred Kissinger was sworn in on September 22, 1973, as the 56th secretary of state, a position he held until January 20, 1977. He also served as assistant to the president for National Security Affairs from January 20, 1969, until November 3, 1975. In July 1983, he was appointed by President Reagan to chair the National Bipartisan Commission on Central America until it ceased operation in January 1985, and from 1984 to 1990 he served as a member of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.
Kaenneth G. Langhone: Serves on the boards of Choicepoint, Inc.; General Electric; TRICON Global Restaurants; Unifi, Inc.; and the New York Stock Exchange.
Donald B Marron: Chairman and chief executive officer of Paine Webber Group Inc
E. Stanley O’Neil: President and CEO of Merrill Lynch & Company, Inc.
Felix G. Rohatyn: U.S. ambassador to France from September 11, 1997, until December 28, 2000. managing director of the investment bank Lazard Freres and Company Board of Governors of the New York Stock Exchange from 1968 to 1972.
Charles A. Sanders: chairman and CEO of Glaxo Inc., spent eight years with Squibb Corp
James Schlesinger: senior adviser to the investment banking firm of Lehman Brothers and as chairman of the Board of Trustees of the MITRE Corporation.Nixon selected him to become chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. He held that post until February 1973 when he was named director of the Central Intelligence Agency. He served in the latter position until July 1973 when he was appointed secretary of defense. He remained at the Defense Department until November 1975.
Brent Scowcroft: Assistant to the president for national security affairs to Presidents Ford and Bush. He also served as military assistant to President Nixon and as deputy assistant to the president for national security affairs to Presidents Ford and Nixon. Prior to joining the Bush administration, General Scowcroft was vice chairman of Kissinger Associates, Inc. He serves as director on the boards of Pennzoil-Quaker State and Qualcomm Corporations. He is also on the Board of Advisors of ExpertDriven, Inc.
Murray Weidenbaum:1981 and 1982, Dr. Weidenbaum was President Reagan's first chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. In that capacity, be helped to formulate the economic policy of the Reagan administration and was a key spokesman for the administration on economic and financial issues. From 1983 to 1989, he was a member of the President's Economic Policy Advisory Board.
Dolores D. Wharton: Board of directors of the Capital Bank & Trust Company, Albany, New York. In 1976, Mrs. Wharton was elected the first woman and first black to the board of the Phillips Petroleum Company and served for 18 years until her resignation in 1993. She also pioneered as a former director of the Kellogg Company for 22 years and Gannett Co., Inc. Among her other prior boards are National Public Radio (NPR), COMSAT Corporation, Michigan Bell Telephone Company, the New York Telephone Company, the Michigan National Bank, and Key Bank, Albany.
In the area of the arts, Mrs. Wharton was appointed by President Ford to the National Council on the Arts of the National Endowment for the Arts
Frederick B. Whitmore: Morgan Stanley & Co. Incorporated. Partner in 1967; managing director since 1970, when the firm incorporated; advisory director, January 1989.
director on the following corporate boards: Ecofin Limited, London, England; Partner Reinsurance Company Limited, Bermuda; Chesapeake Energy Corporation, Oklahoma; Maxcor Financial Group, New York; Sunlife of New York, New York; KOS Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Florida; Southern Pacific Petroleum, Australia.
R. James Woolsey: Partner at the law firm of Shea & Gardner in Washington, D.C. He returned to the firm in January 1995 after serving two years as director of the Central Intelligence Agency is presently a member of the boards of directors or boards of managers of: Linsang Partners, LLC; BC International Corporation; Fibersense Technology Corporation; Invicta Networks, Inc.; DIANA, LLC; Agorics, Inc.; and Sun HealthCare Group, Inc. He is also a member of the Board of Governors of the Philadelphia Stock Exchange. He has served in the past as a member of the boards of: USF&G; Yurie Systems, Inc.; Martin Marietta; British Aerospace, lnc.; Fairchild Industries; Titan Corporation; and DynCorp. (DynCorp has contracts to train police and military in Iraq)
Amos A. Jordon: Has held the positions of principal deputy assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, deputy under secretary of state, and acting under secretary of state for security assistance. A former U.S. army brigadier general and a West Point department head, Jordan also served as a member of President Bush's Intelligence Oversight Board.
Leonard Marks: Chairman, U.S. Department of State, International Communications Advisory Committee, 1989-94.
Robert S. Strauss: Corporate lawyer; Chairman of the Board of the U.S.-Russia Business Council January 1993. He is a Partner at Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld, L.L.P.
In August 1991, Mr. Strauss was sworn in as U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union. Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, he in turn became U.S. Ambassador to the Russian Federation.

It is veritable who’s who from each Republican administration since Nixon. A sprinkling of Democratic administration officials and a gaggle of corporate board members. Officials from the Carter Administration are less numerous as well and those familiar with Carter‘s global elite will need no further introduction here.
(Source: http://csis.org/about/index.htm#4)
____________________________________________________
Atlantic Council: James A Baker III (and several other notables!) are listed as Honorary Directors -- detailed biographical material is omitted due to a veritable redundancy.
James A. Baker III
Frank C. Carlucci III
Warren Christopher
Harlan Cleveland
Russell E. Dougherty
Gerald R. Ford
Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
Christian A. Herter, Jr.
Robert S. McNamara
Paul H. Nitze
Bernard W. Rogers
Edward L. Rowny
George M. Seignious II
Raymond P. Shafer
George P. Shultz
William H. Webster
John C. Whitehead
(Source:) http://www.acus.org/board/Default.htm

The Bushes are laughing in their hats!"



THESE are the folks who put Clark up to running when their boys Bush and Kerry began to FLOUNDER.

Clark is BFEE.


YOU vote for him! Not ME.


Dean/Edwards, Braun/Kucinich , Edwards/Sharpton

But NOT Clark, Kerry, Lieberman or Gephardt

[SahaleArm]

39. Sorry, won't let me log-in.

Do you have the user/passwd, or is it troll/troll? Why don't you promote your candidate instead of faking indignance.

[kcordell]

40. Under The Radar

Several weeks ago Clark appeared on our local morning radio show hosted by Martha Zoller. She asked him why Democrats were generally seen as being soft on the military. His answer was "It goes back to Viet Nam. Since then the 'peaceniks' have hijacked the party."

[CWebster]

51. jeezus...

Little wonder he is unpopular with women too. He goes around the Country encouraging our kids to sign on with the military during a time when many mothers and wives are living a day to day hell worrying about the safety of their loved ones in the service.

[Julien Sorel]

59. And why is Dean unpopular with women?

Hmmmm?

I thought you hated seeing candidates being 'tornm down?' Or perhaps it was only one candidate?

[wyldwolf]

43. This is just another "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" google search...

...name association game.

It does not show he runs with the BFEE.

[Julien Sorel]

57. This one again.

CSIS is a non-profit, non-partisan think tank, nothing more:

http://csis.org/about/index.htm

I guess Sam Nunn is a member of the BFEE too. And of course, Clark was a consultant on international affairs for them, but that's about it -- he had no authority or reponsibility outside of providing them with his opinion.

What happened to the whole Haitian man breast thing that you used to be so fired up about? You used to blame Clark for that, but were you finally laughed into silence on that issue?

[GOPBasher]

41. I believe they can help!

The fact that Clark used to be a Republican can help. He can talk about how he's a reasonable, moderate guy, not on one side of the political fence or the other. And then he can talk about how the Republican party has gone way to far to the right in recent years. The party left him, he can say. This will attract swing voters. And I think our base will support him because his position on the issues is pretty liberal -- even Michael Moore likes him!

[wyldwolf]

44. Your post is misleading. There is no indication "Clark used to be a...

... Republican."

[GOPBasher]

71. I don't know, myself, but

many people say that he was. Whether he was or not, I don't know. But IF he was, it can be used as an advantage.

[wyldwolf]

42. There is every indication Clark has a broader support than Dean...

..I'm not talking about the primaries. It is pretty obvious that Dean stands a better chance of winning the nomination if the convention was today.

But the question was, what extent (will) the video tapes of his support for shrub... affect his chances of beating him?

Here is what they show. They show a man not who is not a bitter partisan. Per military culture, he (was) non-partisan. Country before party. In the first instance, the tape showed Clark commending the team Bush had put together and expressing hope that the country would succeed. The second instance, he was commending Bush's action in Afghanistan (which Howard Dean did, too.)

All during this time and the time after up until he announced his candidacy, in Clark's words, he was traveling the country and hearing people's concerns about the administration and the job they were doing. Combined with Clark's record of progressive ideals in the military, this formed a very formidable profile of a democrat. In touch with the common people and progressive.

Now, there will be some snipes about this. People claiming Clark is no progressive and this and that. But the fact remains the military is one of the most socialist institutions in our country. They were the first to integrate. They have healthcare for all. Sure, it does have a bad record in other areas and I'm sure you'll hear them. But that will be about the military and NOT specifically Clark.

I don't think anyone against Clark would condone dismantling the military. Like Clark, they'd reform it.

All this lends credance to Clark's healthcare plans, his support of affirmative action, and gay rights.

But to answer you question more specifically, Clark has support among a specific constituency that doesn't relate to Dean at all -- those who think that Bush is a basically decent man who's doing a bad job as president. Those independents, Reagan democrats, and yes - repulicans tired of Bush - combined with the support of the democratic base (and those farther left who will hold their nose and vote for him) gives him the better shot at winning in the general election.

[CWebster]

46. Months before Clark stuck his toe in the water

I tested the waters for Dean. Once I made my decision, I stood firm in my resolve and determination to weather attacks. If anything, I am more dug in than ever, understanding the forces that seek to undermine the strength of our grassroots revival efforts.

This is about more than Dean. The Republicans speak with one voice. We devour our own and drag our own hope through the mud.

Dean has fought like hell and had nothing but grief for his phenomenal campaign. Clark waltzs in, tentatively dances around issues--after they have been tested by others, is a recent, very recent Democrat and has a military orientation that is very disconcerting.

[Julien Sorel]

52. Now you're saying this?

This is about more than Dean. The Republicans speak with one voice. We devour our own and drag our own hope through the mud.

You were, and remain, one of the biggest Clark bashers around, but now you're complaining about mud, and devouring our own? That's pretty amazing. Not only did you attack Clark, but you aggressively and nastily attacked people who were new to this board who committed the sin of being Clark supporters, basically sending the message that they weren't wanted here. But now you're concerned about the party? That's pretty amazing as well.

But then we get to your candidate, and that's where the real stuff lies. Dean has been, and continues to be, the most negative campaigner of them all. Cockroaches. Bush-lite. Distorting and outright lying to attack his rivals. Ignoring nuance when it comes to the IWR, but demanding that people understand nuance when it comes to his many, many gaffes. Dean is, hands down, the dirtiest and most divisive of all the candidates, but you fault the rest of them for what amounts to defending their turf? I think some perspective is needed. Dean certainly brings something positive to the table, but he lets loose far more than his share of gas while dining, so to speak. ;-)

[CWebster]

55. Really..."one of the biggest Clark bashers"

Why because I dare breath a questioning word?

The Clark Corps didn't get their reputation for being "attack dogs" for their balance, but for their bullying, looking for every inroad to take a shot. Dean supporters have been generally thrust into defense.

In fact I would say if I bash anyone, it is Clark supporters, who I advise, billy bunter, do not reflect well in their candidates interests

[Julien Sorel]

60. I'm tempted to dig up some of your old posts,

but I won't bother subjecting you to the humiliation. There's a huge difference between what you were saying and 'questioning,' and I will give you enough credit to assume you know that, and are simply dissembling as usual.

Dean supporters have been generally thrust into defense.

And this is complete bullshit, as Lieberman and Kerry people will attest, and in fact, have attested. Every candidate that has threatened Dean has been absolutely savaged by assbite Deanites on the attack. Assuming Dean's poll numbers take a hit, they'll be right back at it, in fact, and I have no doubt you'll continue doing more than your part.

And you know what's saddest of all? The hypocrisy of it. I dislike Dean for reasons totally outside of Clark. You and your band attack clark because he threatens Dean, not for any sins he's committed. It's revolting, and a true reflection of your candidate, as he does the exact same thing: invents issues to attack his rivals when it suits him.

[indigo32]

67. I don't want to be "Dug in"

and I really don't dislike Dean or anything like that...
I want to support the best candidate. I also think that while Clark can't claim the grassroots that Dean can, yet, his draft campaign is proof of grassroots support.

[Julien Sorel]

47. To tack on to what Wyldwolf said above,

how powerful would it be to have someone say, 'I love my party, it's my home, but I love this country even more, because it is the home of us all.' That message resonates, and is the sort of thing that will suck in swing voters like a vacuum cleaner when paired with Clark's credentials.

[DemExpat]

50. "I love this country even more"....THAT is what I love about Clark

.....that sentiment there is worth more than anything, IMO.
I think he loves the world and humanity, and that is precisely why I support him as the very best candidate for the best US President!
I sure hope that he wins the nomination.....

:kick:

DemEx

[LoneStarLiberal]

64. May I Try To Convince You?

There will always be Democrats for whom anything other than anger at the Bush administration is treasonous. These people obviously think that Wes Clark sits at Bush's right hand, is a Republican plant, or go out and pick your own conspiracy theory from the plentiful basket that is out there. It's only going to become more plentiful as time goes by and Clark sticks around like the Democrat he is instead of fulfilling the leering dreams of those who dislike him and turn into a bat and fly back to the White House or whatever it is they fancy at the time.

I am not too enamoured with his comments myself, but I understand and approve of his praise for the U.S. military and their usurping the Taliban in Afghanistan. Since I'm a moderate, I'm not interested in puritanical adherence to ideology.

I see nothing with the video I've viewed that indicates to me that these comments will affect him outside of the Democratic primaries. Only someone who has consistently sided with and voted for conservative initiatives pushed by the Bush administration would really need to worry about such a problem in the general election. And we all know we only have one of those candidates...without mentioning any names...the Honorable Gentleman from Connecticut.

[xultar]

68. First of all The Clark team would be glad to welcome you...

Secondly, I guess the real thing to focus on is what the candidates say and do. Don't think about switching. Think about what Dean did to make you want to support him. Then look @ the other candidates and listen to their messages and determine who is saying what you believe in your heart is the right thing to do for our country.

Now, with that said. I don't know if there is anyone thing in those video tapes that should affect whether or not you support General Clark. The videos are a non-issue. Is it so bad to like a president even if it is shrub? Let's say there are some repugs out there who wanna vote for Clark or Dean. Would we not accept their vote because of their past? The answer to that is no.

You have to look at what the candidates have to offer and what they say now to make your decision. shrub has made me so pissed it has activated me into action rather than just voting and going home. shrub I'm sure had that same effect on Clark. HE supported him once but then began to see the real shrub and was like...ok he's fuckin up the country. I wanna help. Now he's running.

General Clark is a great guy. Read Al Franken's book. He's in there. There is a whole chapter about him.

I will tell you that my selling point on Clark was the ONLY one who wanted to send troops to help the people in Rawanda. But they turned him down because they thought the US couldn't take a high count of soldier deaths. Well over 100,000 people were killed and left to rot in the streets as a result.

[Ksec]

73. The tapes

show hes a balanced man and willing to give compliments. Hes a gracious man and you dont get to be a 4 star by being rude to an audience. Clark has always been smooth and knows how to smooze if need be. To me that just shows how brilliant he is.

[Bread and Circus]

74. To directly answer your question...

"What I wonder though...is to what extent the video tapes of his support for shrub will affect his chances of beating him."

---

A.) Clark's non-partisanship and ability to be fair-minded
will help win over moderates and Republicans.

Here are other reasons they will go for him and why he
has the best chance winning:

1.) He took four bullets serving the country, Bush went AWOL
2.) He is not a political hack, Bush is a huge political hack
3.) He is a patriot of the truest kind, Bush is an opportunist
4.) He is brilliant and charismatic, Bush can't speak a sentence
5.) He will take swing states away from Bush
6.) He will take away Southern states from Bush
7.) He will take military votes from Bush
8.) He will take male votes from Bush

He has the balls to stick his finger in Bush's chest and
say "go back to Crawford you weakling dictator in search of
a banana republic, we don't want your brand of lukewarm
fascism anymore". He's already doing it.