Can Democrats win the Conservative White Vote?

[bluestateguy]

Howard Dean's recent clumsy remarks invoking the Confederate flag raises a far more important issue than just his sensitivity to blacks. It raises the issue of what, if any, strategy the Democratic Party should have with regard to the courtship of conservative white voters. Mind you, I don't mean all white voters, but conservative white voters. And they are not just in the South either. I'm talking about white men who adore Rush Limbaugh, don't much care for black people, want abortion banned, Christianity to be America's official state religion and want the Middle East turned into a parking lot. I'm talking about conservative white men who think that women should "know their place" and that homosexuality is a disease. The tough question one must ask here is should the Democratic Party try to make itself the kind of party where these voters can feel comfortable? Or, should we proudly write them off, and tell them that, respectfully, the Democratic Party has nothing to say to them or to offer them, and that there is another major political party that represents their interests quite well. Democrats should do one or the other, but not try to straddle the fence and do a little of both. That will only make us look unprincipled.

[QC]

1. You have set up the thread header in such a way

that one can only answer, "Hell no! Don't even look at the bastards!"

I mean, the people you describe are not conservatives--they are fascists. And after giving that scary portrait, you ask us if we want to associate with such people. Well, of course we don't. I wouldn't want such people to scrub my toilet.

Can we reach people who are self-described conservatives but not as extreme as those you describe? I think we definitely can, by returning to old-fashioned class politics, rather than letting the Republicans set up the terms of the debate by putting divisive social issues at its center, as we have been doing for years.

After all, the working class tends to be socially conservative, so as long as social issues dominate politics, we will lose them. That's why the Republicans like to play the game that way, but I haven't yet managed to figure out why Democrats are so eager to keep playing that game.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. "old-fashioned class politics"

I think you are 100% right, QC. Thanks! :)

[MercutioATC]

2. Answer me this: How do we have a hope of winning if we don't show ALL

people that our common needs outweigh our differences? Dean's Confederate flag remarks are only "clumsy" to those who don't see the situation realistically. We DO need to appeal to those with sifferent beliefs. We DO need to show them that our common needs outweigh our differences. From what I've seen, Dean is the only candidate that's been willing to make this gesture to "non-Democrats" and I laud him for it. We're strongest when we ALL work for a common good, and that's exactly what Dean is endorsing.

[PeaceProgProsp]

7. If there were a message that worked for everyone, votes wouldn't be 50:50

If it were so easy to come up with a message that reached all those people on the far right, Dems would be winning 85:15.

[MercutioATC]

12. So your answer is not to even try?

Who else is proposing a similar message? Shouldn't we be backing the candidate who attempts to show how we ALL need the same things?

[PeaceProgProsp]

16. Do you abandon your base to go after voters who aren't your base?

You go after voters who aren't your base if it doesn't cost you your base.

[Selwynn]

18. Yes, that's right.

We shouldn't "try" to appeal to conservatives by becoming conservative. We should try to CHANGE THE MINDS of people who are wrong, and help them understand how to be right.

Seriously - what do we win if in order to gain votes we take up all the positions of our opponents?

[OKHRANA]

24. Look, Dean's credentials are established...

and he's miles ahead of everyone by making inroads in the South where ultimate victory is not possible without it.

He knows he can't change anything unless he gets elected. He knows he's in the politics business and we should all know it ain't always pretty.

Dean is acting like a winner, like he has the nomination, the others are too busy trying to get it.

Looks to me like we got a winner and the quicker we get behind him the better his chances next year will be.

[Classical_Liberal]

22. They probably see that he is right

but alot of them don't care. Some want to Bush to win again in my view. Sharpton had an opportunity to build a rainbow coalition and he is blowing it because of his ego.

[Terwilliger]

26. We need to appeal to Nazis! Jews will just have to grin n' bear it!

Your post is ridiculous. Guys with confedearte flags on their pickup trucks are racists. They're not flying the rebel flag because they're rebellious or celebrating the history of the South. They're flying their "colors" and indicating that they believe the South was right to fight the war to keep the "niggers" in their place. THAT's what that flag represents. Dean should apologize.

[jiacinto]

3. The whole white vote? No that's not going to happen

But I do think that sectors of the white vote ar reachable:

specifically blue collar white men and women. White men who are working class. Now white collar white men are out of the question.

But certain subsets of white men are reachable.

[bluestateguy]

4. That's fine

The people you describe are ripe for the picking, but Democrats have historically been reluctant to write off segments of voters. We try to be all things to all people, rather than a majority party. A majority is 51%, not 100%.

[jiacinto]

10. The Blunt Point

If we had just gotten 1-5% more of the white vote we would have won KY and MS.

[PeaceProgProsp]

9. Strategy once you got the blue collar white male vote:

Turn voting Democratic into a masculinity issue for white collar men. Say, "hey, the sports fans have the sense to vote Democratic. Why are you voting for a bunch of chickenhawks?"

Just an idea. Wonder if it would work.

[dobak]

5. We don't need to..

We just need to make people realize that THE DEMOCRATS are the party that supports policies that help every American.

I don't want the White Christian Fundamentalist/Confederate/Gun Loving crowd (they will vote Bush no matter what)

I do want the White Christian/Southern/Gun Rights crowd (the moderates, like my parents and most of my friends)

We need to narrow our target a bit

[PeaceProgProsp]

6. What are Republicans doing to win the votes of liberal black and women

and immigrant and labor, etc. voters?

I suspect the answer to your question will sort of mirror the answer to that question.

Obviously, you have to bring out your base. If you go too far in the opposite direction, you alienate your base.

You also have to win people in the middle. How do you do that? Well, you make sure that people on the right understand that your message works for them too. The idea that bush is for socialism for the wealthy, and is hostile to anyone who earns their money from working for a living, will probably get you way more mileage than if you alter your message to appeal to people on matters diametrically opposed to your party's identity (which, I presume, given today's debate, relates to equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, ethnicity, national origing, gender, gender identity, sexuality, religioun, etc.).

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Southerners Respect Duty, Courage, and Honor

If Bush's AWOL stint becomes an issue, it could be a huge wedge. All we have to do is get a military man up there against him!

[unfrigginreal]

19. I really wish you'd quit beating that same worn out old drum.

Voters in this country got over the Vietnam "moralities" during the first Clinton election. Nobody gives a damn whether someone served in Vietnam or not. We live in a different world now.

[OKHRANA]

27. Yeah but people do care about how you would deal with terrorism

and that's a problem we have because the RW keeps confusing people between our desire for peace and our ability to defend the nation. Talk about wedge politics.

Bush Boy's game goes even further. Next year fears of new terrorist attacks will be raised to hysterical levels and our candidates need some pro-military credentials, and except for Kerry, they, especially Dean, don't have them (but Kerry is not exciting anyone).

And Dean looks like the one who's going to be the one...

[Ridley Park 704]

11. I'm tired of hearing so much, "I used to be a Democrat, but now I'm a Repu

ke, because the Democratic party drifted blah blah blah..." We need to win these people back.

My parents voted for Truman, Adlai Stevenson, and Kennedy and Johnson, and cried when Bobby Kennedy died. But now they vote Repuke.

I wish there were easy answers. It's staggering how many Repuke white males do say they used to be Democrats. These are the types of people who made the difference for JFK. Now the Democrats can't even hold onto Kentucky and Mississippi. (Ha, did I think they would?)

I agree with Dean who says we should try to win over southern white males who do not dislike the Confederacy, and who habitually vote Repuke. We shouldn't write them off completely, we should try and lure them back, maybe not be so black and white on some issues like guns. The NRA cost Gore Tennessee.


At the least, Terry McAuliffe is bad for this party, and should be driven out.

[OKHRANA]

28. You mean like Zel Miller? he still says he's a Democrat

but he might as well be a Republican.

I agree Terry McAuliffe is bad for the party. Everyone knows he's not there for his abilities, but to keep an eye on things for Clinton, which is a high price to pay for that.

[leanings]

13. Matters of degree, I guess.

I'd imagine lots of union members in the South have a gun rack in their truck and a Confederate flag somewhere in the house. They go to church and may not have any black friends and may not know any homosexuals, and therefore may have some tendencies towards less than progressive social outlooks. But they're still very much interested in social democracy and bringing the corporatists to heel and a host of other issues that Democrats SHOULD represent.

The "conservative" white male you're describing is a pretty small minority of most of the self-described "conservative" white males I know. The thing that turns them off about the Democratic Party is that it's portrayed as the party for people whom, oh, I don't know...advocate supporting the Iraqi resistance? Of course, most liberals aren't that out there, just as most "conservatives" aren't as out there as you portray them. The respective medias have done an excellent job of demonizing their opponents in the view of their supporters. I think those of us who would advocate towards a centrist Democratic Party are just trying to find some common ground and tone down some of this mutual hatred the two parties seem to have cultivated for one another.

[TacticalPeek]

14. Forget the guys with Rebel flags on their trucks, a fairly small segment.

Target the guys with fading Bush/Cheney stickers on their bumpers.

Right now, veterans as well as active duty and reserves/Guard are prime prospecting territory, and becoming more so. Get them and many wannabe's could follow.

[AnnitaR]

23. Totally agree! We have to be aggresive in getting

the military vote this time around. Now is our chance to shatter the myth that they have that the Pukes look out for their interest better than we do.

I personally know several military folks who have voted Puke in the last 3 elections but are seriously pissed at Chimpy and are looking to vote Dem in 2004. Their major beef is all the cuts Bush is making while they or their buddies are over there dodging bullets. Some are pissed about the War and why we got into it, but not all of them. But ALL of them are pissed about the cuts Chimpy is making and then going out and portraying himself as one of them. Whoever are nom is they should make the military cuts (closing base schools, hazard pay, etc) a major part of their campaign.

[OKHRANA]

29. You are right...

we need the military vote and we need to be aggressive in getting it.

But I don't even hear any of the Democrats talking about this issue in the debates, except in trying to show how BushBoy-like they are.

[MissMarple]

17. Some, if we don't annihilate the guy first.

Maybe more. That's called uniting, not dividing.

I'm smiling, I'm smiling.

:evilgrin:

[camero]

20. We could win some social conservatives

But mostly on the gun issue. ANSWER will never let us touch the abortion issue, so we'll lose these voters probably.

[TankLV]

21. Yeah, THAT's the ticket!

Let's forget everything we stand for, and appeal to, oh I don't know, the repuke party platform!

Yeah - anti-gay, anti-immigrant, anti-equality, anti-woman...

Yeah - THAT's the ticket!

But wait a minute - there ALREADY is a party appealing to those ideas - I have it here somewhere - ah, yes - they call themselves REPUBLICANS!

NO FUCKING WAY!

We stand for our ideals. We fight for our ideals. We try to make these ignorant boobs understand the fallacy of their positions and CONVINCE THEM TO SUPPORT OUR IDEALS!

We don't pander to their lowest common denominator by trying to become what they think THEY want - we try to convince them to BELIEVE IN WHAT WE BELIEVE IN!

BE PROUD OF OUR PROGRESSIVE "BASE" - CHANGE THE DISCOURSE! STAND UP FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE AND WIN - OR LOSE HONERABLY BUT WITH INTEGRITY!

ARE WE ALL HERE FOR "D" IS JUST TO WIN A MAJORITY AND FUCK ALL OUR IDEALS, OR DO WE PUT A LINE IN THE SAND AND SAY "I WILL FIGHT FOR THESE POSITIONS/IDEALS, NO SURRENDER"!

If we go further right much more anymore, like we have been for over 20 years, I'm out of the dem party for the first time in almost 40 years. I will not be a repuke-lite!

[Terwilliger]

25. Dems should appeal to non-racists

the racists should be shewn off like unwanted stubble

[quaker bill]

30. Agreed

But if some racists think they will be better off economically by voting for our candidate, and choose to do so on their own. I would not reject their votes.

I would not advocate messing up the economy just because some racists might prosper along with the rest of us.