I was shocked by Sharpton and Edwards tonight.

[shance]

I expected more of them.

When the going gets tough, weak ones attack others.

There were some great points within the debate. However, this attempt to smear Dean is more than wrong, its essentially against the highest good of Dems in general.

Edwards and Sharpton showed that predatory temptation to go after the leader so they could grand stand, and it showed a display of opportunism without having any merit of their own to stand on.

If they were more confident in their own abilities and achievements, they wouldnt resort to such cheap shots? And this bogus Confederacy deal is as bogus as Al Gore and the internet. Its a JOKE.

Why the unfair accusations and attacks?

They know what he meant by those words and yet they are misconstruing the whole scenario.

If they really cared about the big picture and us winning the White House, in my opinion, they wouldnt take such unecessary shots.

We cannot continue to allow the good people to be unfairly accused, berated, and worse.

It does have an effect when it happens. It creates cynicism and doubt and weakens conviction.

I hope we will continue to even have people run for president like Dean, because there would be far too many good people who said screw it.

There were some good points to the debate and I am SO glad we are having these debates because they are showing Americans the best options.

However there was some of the cheapest scapegoating towards a candidate who was trying to be inclusive and because of this unfair allegation will be much more guarded with his words. Is that what we want? Another great candidate made cautious by an overzealous and self-righteous crew of Americans. I thought we got rid of that with the Puritans!!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. I think this means they are running for VP?

At least if it's someone other then Dean. I'm a long time Dean basher, but he was 100% right about getting working class white southerners to vote Democratic. He reminded them that bigotry blinds you to economic reality.

Civil rights is an issues that Democrats are all united on. Using it as a divisive and deceitful way like this is bad politics for the attacker and all of us in general. There are plenty of things to fight about.

[elperromagico]

2. The only mistake Dean made (IMO)

was in terms of phrasing. His meaning was obviously, "I want your vote, regardless of race, creed, or beliefs." His use of the Confederate flag was an odd choice, that's all.

[AP]

3. The question is, what's Dean willing to do to get votes of far right?

As for Sharpton and Edwards behaving badly, those are the two candidates with the strongest support among black voters. They have a lot at stake if they perceive that Dean's talk is going to keep black voters at home on primary day. They'd be crazy not to go out and stake their claim to this issue.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. your're right - Sharpton and Edwards were better than the posts on DU

I sometimes confuse what the candidates *actually* said with what their supporters post on DU. I'm fine with what Dean said, I don't think there is a problem disagreeing or questioning the way it was presented.

I love candidate bashing here on DU, but I don't think the candidates should be doing it in public.

[JNelson6563]

19. I think he has covered that

From what I recall Dean has said he wants to point out that 30 years of voting R has gotten them nothing. He said their kids need insurance and good schools too and they need jobs. He said he wants to point these things out to them and win their votes.

I can see though how this might appear as an opportunity to imply sinister means of obtaining those votes.

Julie

[shance]

10. Good point. But when do candidates get slack for sponteneity?

Or for stating it in their own words and their own way?

Who is anyone else to really say you said it wrong, unless it is a situation that is backed up by a pattern or a history, of course in this case where there is not only nothing, it is the antithesis of Dean.

I think of comments I make and/or comments we all make that are off the cuff or spontaneous. They are campaigning and being asked questions all the time. If he had been Haley Barbour or Trent Lott being quoted, that would be one thing, but he has racist background so thats where I think this has gotten so out of hand.

Not to mention the trot-line of leeway the media grants Republicans and their gaffes. Wasnt it just yesterday the "mow them down" comment from Trent Lott - as the press puts fingers in their ears and sings lalalalala......

[Pastiche423]

5. I was a little shocked by Edwards too

Usually when he tries to screw someone(s), he does it out of the public eye.

[Bombtrack]

6. Edwards held out from dishing BACK the entire campaign so far

Dean has been the king of negative campaigning and cheapshots the entire campaign. Edwards took bullshit and lies about him from Dean the whole time and never did anymore than post one complaint on his website(about Dean's "I'm the only one who ever talks about race to white audiences" lie)

But sorry if Edwards minds his heritage being stereotyped for Dean's baseless general election electability talking point.

[shance]

7. Bombtrack - dont bring the chip out, just state facts.

I like a lot of your posts, but dont pull this stuff.

If you have facts then bring em on. If not, dont be mad at those of us who support Dean because he has worked for what hes earned, he responds to the barrage of bad policies coming from this Administration and isnt afraid to take the lead.

Edwards, as much as I have liked him, showed his youth and ignorance tonight. If you cant admit that, then I dont think you have an objective perspective at all.

[AP]

9. Edwards has the most to lose if Dean suppresses black turnout

He is morally and strategically obligated to to address this issue.

The last time Dean told a lie about Edwards (that Dean was the only candidate talking bluntly about race to white audiences) Edwards called Dean on it politely, and Dean didn't change his chat at all.

(Interesting that it's always about race, between these two, eh?)

I thought Edwards was still mild, it's just that the truth of it was more powerful this time, so it seemed worse.

[Classical_Liberal]

15. Any nominee that doesn't get a certain percentage of the

poor whites is doomed. This is sacrificing the party, just to get Dean. It is craven and disgusting.

[Lexingtonian]

17. Strangely enough,

this is also true of black voters. Especially in places like Florida.

[RummyTheDummy]

8. I can't stand Dean.....

But he was dead on with what he said about middle class/poor southern whites w/o healthcare voting for Bush. Dead on.

I see this every day in my community. Obviously poor whites driving beat up, 15 year old cars with Bush/Cheney 00 stickers on their bumpers. It's sad.

[FeelinGarfunkelly]

11. Down With Dean, but not for the flag flap

When you come from John Ashcroft's hometown and you're a Democrat, you learn that the only way to win a lot of these kind of people's votes is to be anti-choice and pro-gun. And even then they doubt you.

Dean's intent could have been communicated a lot better, and I think that even in his 'explanation' he used the word "white" way too much. Edwards was a little off-base in his comments, but I think that was his knee-jerk reaction: Just because southerners may talk slow, it doesn't mean you should be condescending to us. And to stereotype Southerners as it is SO very popular by everyone, even myself sometimes, is just wrong--like all stereotyping.

It IS sad to see poor people who have lost their jobs at the town factory or to see a young mother w/ 2 kids choose between paying rent and buying food. I see this every day and something needs to be done for poor whites--but not just the whites, but all the poverty-stricken people in this great country. How can a country with such great wealth have so much poverty? THAT'S what needs to change.

[Bombtrack]

12. No he wasn't

The fact that his only experience in politics is from Vermont is probably the root of his ignorance.

Dean paints the picture that the majority of voters who don't vote democratic in the south are more or less ignorant rednecks.

He's either completely clueless about how to win a general election or he doesn't care. His campaign is based mostly on being inflammatory and throwing red meat to the easily manipulated parts of the anti-war/anti-Bush community.

I really don't think he's stupid or delusional enough to believe he can win any southern states other than perhaps Florida even before he outlined his slack jawed yokel strategy, as much as his "bring white/brown/black people together" line is just a dismissive campaign tool to allow his supporters to continue to believe he isn't a likely landslide loser

[Lexingtonian]

13. When the going gets tough

the triumphalist Dean supporters start whining?

This is life in this business. No one is entitled to only getting the attacks they want or expect. A real candidate has to have some way of dealing with real, or percieved, unfair attacks. And if it exposes him for what he really is, whether or not the pretext is correct, what's unfair about that? He does get that smuggish, vaguely evil look in his eye that always bothers me when he has no adequate response- if that's what the otherwise concealed part of his political persona is, the person watching him has learned something about him.

I didn't see much of the thing, but I did see that part. I've never believed that Dean is at all prepared for that part of the job he's running for anyway, so I wasn't surprised.

We cannot continue to allow the good people to be unfairly accused, berated, and worse.

Pot, kettle, black....
Remember "Bush lite"? And why haven't we been hearing it lately?

[Julien Sorel]

14. Only Dean has the right to attack.

When anyone else does it, it's unfair and demeaning, even when the attacks were made to defend their own turf, as both Edwards and Sharpton were obviously doing.

People on this message board need to get with the program fast, because they do not understand that Dean plays, and deserves to play, by a totally different set of rules than the rest of the candidates. He has the power.

[Lexingtonian]

16. And a strange power it is

under the influence of which people start believing their campaign's line rather than their lyin' eyes and ears.

[Terwilliger]

18. ' It's a JOKE. '

You're not black, are you.