Where were all the millions of new young Dean supporters last night?

[Gman]

One of the biggest talking points in favor of Dean has been this new bunch of young people Dean is supposed to be energizing. Oh yes, Dean is changing the world and mobilizing these throngs of young people who have never voted before They are now mesmerized, enchanted and motivated to turn the right wing tide back and sweep Democrats into office all across our fair land.

Well you know what? After last night, it's obviously a pipe dream, fantasy, delusion and pure bullshit. Where were these minions of young energized idealistic young people last night? Did they vote? Hell, they couldn't even help beat back a return to the sweatshop era in Washington state.

Dean is completely wasting the time of the Democratic Party and the country with his illusionary campaign. Dean is all smoke and mirrors with a touch of arrogance thrown in for good measure. Dean is assuring at least 8 years of Bush and probably an additional 4 - 8 years of a President Santorum.

Hopefully, the feared boogie-DLC or someone will be able to derail Dean and get us a REAL candidate that can win in November. Not some illusionist's fog.

[onebigbadwulf]

1. Not disagreeing

but was there any chance of winning those states with any non-republican?

It seems to me, those states are always "blue" during elections.

[bowens43]

2. Dean is responsible for the losses yesterday???

I'll let you in on a little secret, Dean is running for President of the United States. That election will not take place until Nov. 2004. I can't believe you would try to blame these other losses on him. This is ridiculous.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. I don't think it was an attempt to blame Dean....

It struck me more as a realistic attitude that maybe the illusion of Dean being this Kennedy-McGovern hybrid that will simultaneously appeal to our base and energize young people to become politically active may just be self-delusion on our part. Obviously the energized base wasn't there for us last night.

[bowens43]

7. I would agree with you

if the poster hadn't launched into a personal attack on Dean. What did the other candidates do to get out the vote yesterday? We weren't energized but it's not the fault of the presidential candidates.

[Gman]

36. Read my post again.

and again and again. Find where you think I blame Dean in my post. Then get back to me.

[maha]

46. Read your post again. And again.

When you're ready to own up to what you said, let us know.

[Gman]

50. Where do you see in this:

"One of the biggest talking points in favor of Dean has been this new bunch of young people Dean is supposed to be energizing. Oh yes, Dean is changing the world and mobilizing these throngs of young people who have never voted before They are now mesmerized, enchanted and motivated to turn the right wing tide back and sweep Democrats into office all across our fair land.

Well you know what? After last night, it's obviously a pipe dream, fantasy, delusion and pure bullshit. Where were these minions of young energized idealistic young people last night? Did they vote? Hell, they couldn't even help beat back a return to the sweatshop era in Washington state.

Dean is completely wasting the time of the Democratic Party and the country with his illusionary campaign. Dean is all smoke and mirrors with a touch of arrogance thrown in for good measure. Dean is assuring at least 8 years of Bush and probably an additional 4 - 8 years of a President Santorum.

Hopefully, the feared boogie-DLC or someone will be able to derail Dean and get us a REAL candidate that can win in November. Not some illusionist's fog."

That I BLAME Dean?

[bowens43]

61. I did, several times.

The entire post appears to be a 'blame Dean' rant. You see to think that because Dean is attempting to get the Dem nomination that he was responsible for getting out the vote in every local or state election that was held yesterday.

[Skwmom]

73. How is he blaming Dean?

Other people, including myself, have raised this issue. Where are the hard facts to back up Dean's assertion that he's getting so many new voters on board that he can beat Bush in the general election? His whole campaign is one big marketing scam.

[Carl21014]

4. Why not blame the DNC leadership instead!

You want us to blame Dean, who is not the choice of the DNC establishment, and replace him with a pick from the McAlluffe, Dashle, and Gephart crowd that has lost every election since 96'?

Yeah, that makes sense! :crazy:

[Lexingtonian]

8. Yikes!

Lordy you're beating the stuffing out of that strawman!

Let me clue you in: Clinton won in '96, Daschle became Minority Leader in '96, they stopped the bleeding in '98, Gore got a plurality and Daschle got us a gain of 5 Senate seats in '00. Which is more than Dean has yet accomplished.

Now you may return to the Circular Firing Squad.

[Gman]

38. The DNC has nothing to do with state and local elections

State and local elections are done by the state and local party.

Again, if Dean has energized this base, where was it last night?

[quaker bill]

5. Lame point

Dean is running at 17 percent amoung dems nationally. Apparently the other 83 percent support other candidates. Where were they? It is easier to argue that the rest of the field is more responsible.

Bottom line, I buy none of this logic.

Shrubbie* still has majority support in most places. However, it seems to be falling most everywhere. In another year this could be a very different story.

A clear indicator is Philly where one of our candidates turned out publicly to be running more directly against Asscroft and BFEE than the repug local candidate. That race turned on a dime and went quite well us.

[AP]

Lots of DNC-Dems campaigned for Street in Philadelphia.

by the way.

[bearfartinthewoods]

45. when was the last time a pubbie was elected mayor of philly?

not in my lifetime. i'd bet money on that. maybe fifty years...

if you see that victory as a clear indicator of anythingm i'd like to hear it.

ON EDIT...i was wrong. it's 55 years..

[jeter]

6. People have to get over yesterday

Because in truth we did all right. Losing only in KY and MS. Two states we don't have a prayer in anyway.

Even in WA st. Apparently those "loses" we incurred were to - gasp - fellow Democrats.

So using your logic, I guess we should thank Dean for the successes in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, Upstate New York, Salt Lake City, and elsewhere.

Wow. Who knew Dean was so popular.

[maha]

9. Sense.

Try to make it next time.

What does Dean have to do with local and state elections yesterday?

[Julien Sorel]

12. He's supposed to have brought these new voters

into the party, energized and ready to 'take back our country.' Where are they?

[maha]

24. They're waiting for vote next year against Bush

Chill out. Let's try not to make Howard Dean into a boogyman, OK? I'm sure General Clark isn't blaming Howard Dean for losing the races in Kentucky and Mississippi. That's silly.

[Julien Sorel]

31. I'm sorry, where did I blame Dean for anything,

besides exaggeration? Dean was a non-factor yesterday, that's it. Considering his rhetoric, I suppose one could consider that an attack, but not blame.

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. "They're waiting "......why?

why in the hell would they be waiting?

i'm not tryin to make Dean the boogeyman.

why would they wait?

[RetroLounge]

77. Here in Wisconsin where we didn't have election. Duh!

A bunch of freaking geniuses on the board, I swear to god.

[CWebster]

10. Latest Gallup poll indicates 18-29 age group

swings to Bush.

What's it gonna take? Their own Viet Nam?

Ahhh, the dumbing down.... and their music sucks too.

[Military Brat]

35. Just a thought on that 18 - 29 age group

Maybe all the Repubs are sitting at home watching TV when the phone rings with the Gallup pollster, and all the young Dems are out there actually doing something with their lives.

I've never been called about my opinions and I don't know exactly how that process works. Like I said, it's just a thought. Here in Republicannibal county, no one in that age group that I've casually talked with ever mentions bush without rolling their eyes or grimacing.

[knowledgeispower]

69. I just don't believe that

The questions were probably slanted or something. I am 22 and within my peer group it is a BIG FUCKING NO-NO to be a Republican. Maybe it is just the people I hang out with, but it seems to me like the general consensus amongst my generation is that Republicans are "not cool."

Disclaimer: I will admit I go to the U of Minnesota, I rather liberal school. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

[Julien Sorel]

11. This thread is probably going to be locked,

but you make an excellent point. These 'off the grid' people that Dean is bringing in who flock to his banner are complete figments of the Deanites' imaginations, and the Dean spin machine.

[CWebster]

14. We did pretty good here in the NorthEast.

The South is your boy's turf, huh?

[Julien Sorel]

18. 'My boy'

has been in the election for 6 weeks, and hasn't claimed to be bringing in millions of new voters to the party. yours has been campaigning for two years, and does make that claim.

I would like to see a breakdown on the people who voted -- how many of them were new voters and so on. I suspect we'd see that Dean had nothing to do with what happened in the Northeast or anywhere else.

[CWebster]

22. He had nothing to do with the NE, but he is blamed for the South

Typical, Bunter.

And another thing. Edwards addressed Dean something to the effect of, "we don't want you or need you(in the South). Southern states, Edwards, not like you rallied the numbers.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. If Dean supporters got out and voted in the NE, that's great. But

apparently this "Dean effect" is limited in area, contrary to what prior claims here would lead one to expect.

I may be wrong but I think Edwards said Southerners are tired of outsiders telling them what to do, not that Dean wasn't welcome to campaign in the South. Dean has insulted blacks and Southerners and refuses to apologize. Sometimes it's a sign of strength to say you're sorry. With half the country being Bush*- worshippers, Democrats can't afford to alienate any potential voters.

[CWebster]

26. Dean has been focusing in the early primary states

Not like the Southern candidates have much to show anywhere.

[Julien Sorel]

32. Who blamed Dean?

Was it me? Was it anyone? As I said above, I believe Dean was a non-factor yesterday for good or ill, but given his and his supporters' rhetoric, he should have been a positive factor both in the South and elsewhere.

[jeter]

28. I think it's more logical to blame Clark

Since he is the southern. He suppose to deliver us the south isn't he. We won everywhere else.

Hey it's all Clark's fault.

[Gman]

44. I'm not blaming anyone

I just want to know where these young energized and idealistic throngs of new voters that Dean has brought into the party where last night.

[Democrats unite]

13. If they are smart they are in hiding...

eom

[matcom]

15. wow another "hit and run" Dean basher who won't respond to his own thread

i am shocked!

SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!

:eyes:

excuse me whilst i look elsewhere for "adult" "mature" discourse

:eyes:

[Gman]

40. I had to take my daughter to school

Why do you think this is a Dean bashing thread? (My arrogance comment aside.)

This is about the great Messiah Dean who is delivering vast multitudes of new, young, idealistic voters that are going to sweep the party into power next year.

People are being swept up by Dean's smoke and mirrors.

[Lexingtonian]

16. at the usual places

You know, at their computers. :D

Dean is completely wasting the time of the Democratic Party and the country with his illusionary campaign. Dean is all smoke and mirrors with a touch of arrogance thrown in for good measure. Dean is assuring at least 8 years of Bush and probably an additional 4 - 8 years of a President Santorum.

I wouldn't go that far, but a lot of it really seems to be a mass delusional power tripping. You pay in and get hooked, though the product doesn't actually come in little plastic bags (though I wouldn't actually know). Unfortunately, the high just can't last the next 4-5 years.

I count it as part of the illness rather than the cure- there is a political naivite and adolescent willfulness to that crowd which really is a mix of painful and touching. You have to ground them and send them to their rooms occasionally, deal with idiotlogical contrariness more often than is fun, and keep their allowances at a reasonable level. Oh, kick out their new 'friends' occasionally, and check their belongings for illegal psychoactive plant or pharmaceutical materials. The occasional return home via squadcar is also likely part of the upcoming experience, I suspect. :-)

[CWebster]

17. money talks

real enough for ya?

[Lexingtonian]

19. ???

I thought your team was the rich one.

Actually, I think I just see and smell the part about b------t walking. And happen to tell about it.

[no name no slogan]

79. Then why doesn't Dean sell crack?

If money is all that matters in this election, then why isn't Dean selling crack? He could make much more money that way.

Buying into the whole "big money" ploy is not differentiating yourself from your opponent. Nor is trying to play his game by his rules.

I have to agree with Gman: for all the smoke and mirrors, I don't think the numbers on the street add up. You can point to polls all you want, but the truth is they're little more than name recognition at this point. Also count the fact that Dean has more paid staffers on the ground right now than any other candidate, and it leads even more creedence to the argument.

Lots of smoke and mirrors, but little substance.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. I agree -- don't all these Dean supporters realize we need Dems

everywhere we can elect them?

After the Confederate flag fiasco -- a problem magnified greatly by Dean's arrogance and stubborn refusal to apologize for his clumsy comments -- and his saying in Jacksonville, Florida, yesterday that Southerners need to stop voting based on race, guns, God, and gays, I think it's time to stick a fork in Howard Dean. I don't think he can get the nomination now and I'm worried about how much damage he's done to the party.

We need a nominee who doesn't anger potential Democratic voters by insulting them. We need candidates who energize their supporters to get out and vote for other Dems as well as just for their fave candidate. Tomorrow night we'll be hearing how many people turned out for the Dean Meet-Ups, yet they couldn't turn out to vote yesterday. Of course Meet-Ups are a social function, voting isn't.


P. S. Long ago, Jerry Falwell said on the Phil Donahue show that after Dubya's second term, it would be JEB in 2008. And you know he meant it.

[Military Brat]

39. Regarding Jeb in 2008

"Long ago, Jerry Falwell said on the Phil Donahue show that after Dubya's second term, it would be JEB in 2008. And you know he meant it."

Well, of course, because most of us will be unemployed and so damn poor by then we won't be able to afford the gas to get to the polls. Those who can work, will attempt to ensure their own continued pre-eminence and superiority over those who "failed" the work ethic.

I'm kidding. Actually, the rest of us won't make it to the polls because we will all have felony records from violating the latest greatest Patriot Act III because we protested against the bush administration, whereupon we were arrested and sent to prison.

[knowledgeispower]

70. No fuckin' way does Jeb get elected in '08

I've had to suspend my disbelief quite a bit over the past three years, but if Jeb wins in '08 I will pop a fucking aneurysm right where I sit. NOBODY, but NOBODY is stupid enough to vote for that particular fucker and a third Bush regime in general.

[bearfartinthewoods]

48. We need a nominee who

We need a nominee who doesn't anger potential Democratic voters by insulting them.

well, now....that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

[bowens43]

65. Perhaps it was ONLY Dean supporters who turned out to vote

what did YOUR candidate do to help?

[CMT]

21. Oh, so the results on Tuesdays elections are Dean's fault?

We lost in Kentucky and Mississippi Goverorships and that is Dean's fault. Well by your reasoning then it is Dean we should thank for the races we did well in:

Philadelphia Mayor--Did you know that John Street appeared at a rally with Dean? and he won by a landslide--far bigger than expected.

Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) Executive--The Democratic nominee won this seat in a landslide defeating the GOP incumbent. Democrats also won a State Supreme Court race.

Virginia--Democrats picked up seats in the State Assembly.

New Jersey--Democrats broke a tie and now hold both houses of the legislature in Jersey.

Democrats won key mayorial races in Houston, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis and other cities.

As far as I can tell Dean's was the only campaign to have people out campaigning hard for other candidates on election day. For instance, 456 Dean volunteers canvassed in New Hampshire yesterday for Democratic candidates in state and local races--and Dems are doing pretty well there.

So if you are going to blame the losses on Dean--I guess I can be equally silly and thank Dean for the victories.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. That's not the point being made. The point is that all of the

thousands of much vaunted new voters who've become involved with the Dean campaign -- and supposedly will never go back to being inactive, will work to take their country back -- don't seem to have done much in yesterday's election.

It's good to know that Dean volunteers canvassed for other Dems in NH -- excellent effort, kudos to the campaign. But what happened to all the voters?
All that enthusiasm doesn't seem to have translated to the ballot box (or touch screen voting machine.)

[CMT]

27. you people are too much

everything is Dean's fault to you. You don't open your eyes and see the big picture about how well the Democrats have done in many of the races across the country. Yet you single out two lost races in Kentucky, where the Dems had to put up with Gov. Patton's unpopularity and Mississippi, which is one of the most Republican states in the country and blame these defeats becuz the Dean vote didn't materialize. Then you say the point of this thread was not to insult Dean supporters into feeling that somehow we are responsible for losing despite the snide title of the thread.

Well, where are the Kerry voters? or Clark voters? or Gephardt? or Sharpton? or Edwards? did their voters materialize? Edwards and Clark supporters are always saying that we need them to win in the south, well, we lost Kentucky and Mississippi which are in the south and there presence running for president didn't seem to help.

The purpose of this entire thread was yet another excuse to jump on Dean and his supporters and play the blame game about "well where are all these new voters Dean is supposed to have energized"--had Democrats won Kentucky and Mississippi I don't think we would have been so graceless as to say, "Well, Dean did it" when he never even campaigned there. So instead of playing this blame game why not look at the overall positive results.

[sangh0]

53. Typical CMT

No matter how many times it said "That's not the point being made", CMT will continue to insist that "everything is Dean's fault to you"


Well, where are the Kerry voters? or Clark voters? or Gephardt? or Sharpton? or Edwards? did their voters materialize?

Again "The point is that all of the thousands of much vaunted new voters who've become involved with the Dean campaign -- and supposedly will never go back to being inactive, will work to take their country back -- don't seem to have done much in yesterday's election.

When the other candidates and their supporters lie and claim that they're bringing in new voters (the way Dean does), then you might get a response to your question. Until then, you'll have to dodge the questions about where Dean's mythical new voters went on your own.

[CMT]

59. typical asinine reasoning

How do you know that Dean supporters didn't turn out and vote in heavy margins? how does anybody know. You are pointing out losses in Kentucky and Mississippi where Dean hasn't campaigned much at all nor has any other candidate. You ignore the other news that Democrats actually did very well most other places which held elections last night. You want to buy into the Republican taking points that Dems suffered major defeats because we lost the Kentucky and Mississippi elections and shift the blame to some asinine reasoning that it proves that Dean hasn't brought anybody new into the democratic party. Give us proof that Dean supporters didn't vote and didn't make the difference in many of the races we won. If you want to blame Dean for defeats in Kentucky and Mississippi then we must be the reason for successes in other parts of the country.

[sangh0]

64. Where were all the millions of new young Dean supporters last night?

Answer the question CMT! That is, if you dare

[Orangepeel]

37. who says that they'll never go back to being inactive?

I certainly don't. I know that Dean energizes young people and other disenchanted voters because I've seen it in the campaign, but I've always firmly held that this energy is nontransferable.

Dean can ask them to vote for other Democrats (like the eventual nominee if it isn't him), but they aren't robots and all he can do is ask (which he would do). The crowds, the meetups, the enthusiasm. It is all Dean driven and Dean specific. That's why I think he has the best chance to beat bush. No one else can capitize on it.

[Gman]

41. Don't forget the throngs of former Greenies that have

now seen the light.

[bowens43]

66. Where your evidnce to support this statement?

How do you know that Dean supporters didn't vote?

[indigo32]

68. exactly

eom

[Gman]

43. You too... Read my post again

and again, and again. Find anywhere that I blame Dean and get back to me.

While it certainly helped the candidate where Dean went and campaigned for him/her, Dean certainly did not cause to rise up this vast army of energized, idealistic youths that turned the tide against the tyranny of the right wing.

$5 will get you $10 if I'm wrong that the youngest voting demographic in the races you mention did not vote in any bigger numbers than they have historically. And it's just as possible that they voted in even smaller numbers.

[ibegurpard]

29. What a stupid post.

n/t

[jonnyblitz]

30. yup...right up there with the misrepresentation of the confederate

flag issue. I can see through all of this and I am not even a Dean supporter...

[Gman]

42. Never mind that man (Dean) behind the curtain

look at all the wonderful smoke and fire!

[ibegurpard]

51. Whether you think Dean's a fraud or not isn't the point

Blaming him for any election disappointments yesterday is just asinine.

[diamond14]

52. the point is that YOUNG people are not showing up even to vote

and YOUNG people are deannie bopper's main constituents....

so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that dean is a looser....and he is just drawing off that small fraction of votes needed to take the Presidency....the failure of today's young to vote was very obvious in yesterday's elections...today's young do not want to STAND UP ....there is no chance that young draftees will have any impact on the Presidential elections...it is best now that Democrats move away from dean and move towards a candidate that can beat bush* (Kerry/Clark could do it!)

woodie allen: 95% of success is just showing up....

[T Bone]

63. No one is blaming Dean for any failures yesterday but if the Dean

generation is truly the wave of the future for Democratic party they HAVE TO show up to vote in things like municipal elections, and they have to show up to work at the polls for the party every election, and they have to show up to GOTV efforts that the party organizes for every election. Not just the ones that Dean is a candidate in.

No show means no go when/if Dean is on the ballot...

[ShaneGR]

33. We did fine in Ohio

Very good actually.

[dusty64]

34. What happened in Washington?

I've heard nothing about election results there.

[diamond14]

47. in Virginia....young draftees did NOT vote, again...did NOT go

to the anti-war protests in large numbers (a few, but not large numbers)....there were no efforts by young men to work with the Democratic Party, to help in campaigns...to get out the vote...

sadly...less than one-third of the eligible voters actually voted in Virginia...

which is exactly why the deannie idea is being fueled by reTHUGlicans...dean is splitting any possible Democratic vote...in addition, the failure of draft-age young men to participate in the election process will GUARANTEE their DRAFT into the military real fast....

they can whine and cry...but today's draft-age young men are practically advertising for bush* to DRAFT them as soon as possible...if these young men could show themselves to be a political force, then bush* would think twice about drafting them...but once again...there's no political force...it's just all hot air...today's young men will go to their deaths like sheep to the slaughter (as opposed to Vietnam, where young men and young women fought in the streets for their lives)....

1970 college students continued to protest, risking their lives, even after the massacre at Kent State...strong, determined, STANDING UP against war and injustice...(today's young men are going like sheep to the Iraqnam meat grinder)...and these 1970 students FOUGHT for the right to vote...while today's young draftees just sit there.

[diamond14]

54. Doonesbury on those ineffective deanie boopers.....(cartoon)

[DrFunkenstein]

55. 4 Years Of Anti-Bush?

I was hoping for a little...more, ya know?

[indigo32]

56. I think you are overstating the issue

Dean supporters can't win can they. If Dean says "I'm not sure their support can be transferred" the end of it is never heard. If the elections didn't go so well... well suddenly they've been claiming to high heaven about all the new wonderful partisan Dem voters they are producing. WHICH IS IT????

[mandyky]

57. Obviously, not all of them

could go to Boston. But I read an article where once again Dean supporters outnumbered every one elses.

[T Bone]

58. Were any Dean supporters working at polling places yesterday ?

Maybe a few, the rest were too busy posting at DU, is my guess.

[indigo32]

60. and what were you doing

just out of curiousity

[T Bone]

67. Worked at a polling place all day

otherwise I wouldn't have been able to make the observations I have in this thread.

[indigo32]

71. Well good for you

but no... that is not a basis for your observations on this thread.

[kaitykaity]

62. Leaving this open b/c of responses. However,

for future reference, please see rule #2 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=463744

2. The subject line of a discussion thread and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include profanity, excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation. Inflammatory rhetoric should also be avoided.

Thanks,


kaitykaity
DU Moderator

[Octafish]

72. Dean's coattails are about as long as Britney Spear's tank top.

The DEMs in the House and Senate up for re-election, and DEMs running against incumbents, have got to be concerned.

Dean is all talk. Where is the vision? In his "position papers?" That's great, but it takes more than TALK. All the Kool-Aid in the world isn't going to be enough to get the electorate off its collective duff to vote this guy in.

Dean is a DISASTER waiting to happen. And if he's the nominee, it's four more years of Bushler, NRA or no NRA. Dixie pick-up trucks or no Dixie pick-up trucks. Oh yeah, he understands the Internet.

[JNelson6563]

75. I know folks who I'd wager

are a lot higher up the political food chain than you are who very much disagree with you. They happen to have no horse in this race either.

But you keep up your ignorant hate-mongering. Whatever gets you through the day.

Julie

[Octafish]

76. Spoken like a true Democrat.

True, I'm just a bottom feeder. But, I've been around long enough to spot a loser. If he's the nominee, Dean is going to take a lot of people with him, too.

[jsw_81]

74. Dean

You're blaming Howard Dean for the defeat of a ballot initiative in the state of Washington? You have a lot to learn about presidential politics.

[RetroLounge]

78. This post is nothing but sh*t

eom.

[TBURNS]

80. Dean and young supporters

Good question.

I honestly have no idea about that, without looking a the demographics of his support base. If young, young could it be hype and many don't support Dean.

Could it be demographically a bad area for Dean. I'll have to look into that one too.

T.B.
http://conservativeissues.com
Balancing out Politics

[dsc]

81. Since ancedotal evidence appears to be the order of this thread

Let us look at Cleveland Heights. For the first time in the history of the US a pro gay rights iniative passed an electorate. I know for a fact that several Dean supporters, as well as several Kucinich supporters worked their asses off for this. So on the basis of my ancedotal evidence Dean and Kucinich were unqualified historic sucessess at getting out the vote.

To be blunt both what I wrote and what you wrote are unmitigated claptrap. The fact is that none of our current candidates are doing much at all to help with 2003 elections. They tried to help Davis and it didn't work. They helped Street and it did work. Musgrove would have rather had Satan's endorsement than any of our current candidates.

One final thing. I keep hearing about how young Dean supporters supposedly are. Yet again I was at a meetup tonight. Yet again, at 35 I was way younger than the median age. There were 5 high school young ladies who were definately younger than I and one guy around the same age. The other 9 people were all at least 15 years older than I. This is hardly atypical of a Dean meetup. So among other things try getting facts straight.

[JohnKleeb]

83. See we can work together

btw congrads on getting that thing passed, well earned and deserved.

[dsc]

84. I didn't do a heck of a lot admittedly

since I live pretty far away from there and have been busy with both life and Dean. I put in some time and am very glad to see it pass. I would rather have had a more formal thing but this is a great start and shows the ability of us to get an issue like this passed. This should light a fire under Cleveland, Lakewood, and Shaker Heights among other places.

[frank frankly]

82. I voted

thanks for asking

[Egnever]

85. Quite possibly the dumbest thread I've ever read on DU

seriously

:eyes:

[Romberry]

86. Lame.

You are putting an awful lot on a man who is nothing more than a candidate in the PRIMARIES for his party's nomination. Your entire post is a non sequitur from start to finish. Try again. This time, use some logic.