"Liberal Thinking: A Reply to a Conservative"

[jody]

QUOTE
Let me tell you a bit about "liberal" thinking. Liberal thinking wrote the "Declaration of Independence" and began a revolution against tyranny and persecution. Liberal thinking wrote our "Constitution" embracing a bold new concept by giving government to the people and creating a system of checks and balances so that future generations would be protected. Liberal thinking gave us the right to vote. It wrote "The Bill of Rights" to ensure very specific freedoms would always be safe.
UNQUOTE

What's wrong with the above letter?

Nothing but those who call themselves liberals today and demand that all guns be banned are ignoring one of the bedrock rights of every free person, the inalienable right to defend self and property.

Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and Vermont acknowledged that right in their constitution when they were sovereign states and that right has never been alienated.

[DiverDave]

1. There is a difference.

between the "Defend your property" and "A well regulated militia"
I will defend my family, but property?
I think that there are way too many guns out there to do much about it now.
But we can increase safety.
Gun locks, a national ballistic database, gun safes, waiting periods.
These things won't take your guns away.
They would, however, bring a little security to those that feel that unfettered access is insane.

[Wellong]

2. Family and property

I will defend my family, but property?

So a burgler breaks into your home. You will just sit idly buy and let them take what they please?

[sangh0]

4. Ridiculous question

that assumes our response is limited to one of two options - shoot or do nothing.

How unimaginative

[Wellong]

5. I assumed no such thing

the poster clearly questioned if he would defend his "property". And one need not shoot a firearm to use it for defense.

[TXlib]

6. I think what DiverDave means is...

He would defend his family with lethal force, risking death himself.

But property isn't worth somebody else's life, or risking your own, especially if it's insured.

DD, please speak up if I've put the wrong words in your mouth.

[DiverDave]

11. That IS what I meant.

So by the other logic, someone stealing my pink flamencos from the yard I should shoot?
Ridicules, right?
BUT, you go after my wife or kids and, yeah, there is gonna be some shooting.

[Skittles]

15. RNC talking point

got any more?

[DiverDave]

16. oops

wrong post

[jody]

7. Suggest you read state constitutions at

http://www.findlaw.com/11stategov/

Mass said "Article I. All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness."

Penn and Vermont made similar statements and they still exist.

The right to defend self is just one of the freedoms protected as civil rights.

[Bandit]

9. You can defend your property in a legal manner with law enforcement

and defense attorneys. That is what we have a police force and laws for. To protect our property and life. Granted the police aren't always available and guns aren't always effective. Would you like to eliminate the police and go for a wild west America. If I remember correctly the people in those old wild west towns like Dodge City and Abaline were terrified. A few wild people with guns ran roughshod over everyone. You want to go back to that. The law of those days determined it was in everyone's interest for ALL to check their guns before entering town. Why would they come to that conclussion if it was better for everyone to have and use a gun?

[jody]

10. SCOTUS has ruled that government is not obligated to protect

an individual. See
QUOTE
A State's failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services.
UNQUOTE

Self defense is a personal problem. If you choose not to defend yourself, that's your decision and I accept it, but please don't blame others for your decision if you are harmed.

[NewGuy]

3. The problem is in the definitions

The way liberals define liberalism is not the same way that conservatives define liberalism. Thus the expression watch what they do not what they say. Conservatives today would say that it is the 'liberal' courts that are eroding the constitution. I have sen liberals here say that it is the conservative courts that are eroding our constitution.

Of course constitution is also a word that we would have to define. Are we talking 'founders intent' interpretation or 'living document' constitution.

That's why politics are so much fun. We use diferent definitions for the same words and then call each other liars!!

:silly: :wtf:

[rman]

8. gun ban or gun control/regulation?

BIG difference.
As far as i know most liberals want tigher gun control, not a total ban.

Then again, indeed many so-called liberals appear not to be that liberal after all when you look at the policies they support and the actions they take.
Though i'd say gun control is one of the less significant issues right now. I'd rather worry about BBV, 9-11 cover up, supporting a war based on lies, corporate and government corruption.

[DiverDave]

12. Thats exactly right.

Lets keep focused. That being said:
I am a liberal that doesn't want guns banned, better regulated yes, Banned, no...Like I said above, the horses are outta the barn already. Locking the door now is a little late.

[jody]

14. Agree and one set of recommendations is

Winning the Gun Vote

[jody]

13. Some "self professed liberals" want to ban all handguns and a few

want to ban all guns. Handgun Free America provides one list.