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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:27 PM
Original message
Dean/Clark ---it's starting to make sense
This guy seems to have it right. I suppose if you're a Clark supporter you would have issue with the order,but without FLAMING can we discuss this possibility as the strongest ticket the dems have to offer?

Nah, probably not.

Personal Voices: Showing Bush the Door in 2004
Allan Hunt Badiner, AlterNet
November 3, 2003
The times call for a paraphrasing of the famous Mary Oliver question from her poem The Summer Day: "Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious chance to get Bush out of the White House?"


As any informed person knows, the Bush regime is vulnerable on many fronts: the unprecedented national debt, the never-ending war in Iraq, the erosion of our civil liberties, etc. But perhaps the most insidious thing about this administration has been its environmental agenda -- a true weapon of mass destruction! The regressive Bush regime is waging a kind of relentless ecological jihad -- lowering the standards for our air, water and land while allowing corporations (which are obvious Bush campaign contributors) to profit from the weakened regulations. From the trashing of the Kyoto Accords, to stalling any action on climate instability, Bush has proved to be not only the most damaging President to the national interest since Calvin Coolidge, but an international menace as well.
So my best answer is to send both the Doctor and the General to Washington. An early '04 announcement of a Howard Dean/Wesley Clark ticket would be a brilliant move, and it would suddenly free millions of hard-to-raise dollars to be directed where they should be -- against the Bush regime -- instead of being squandered in a protracted fight for the Democratic nomination.


A Dean/Clark ticket unites the two most prominent critics of the Iraq war, and gives countless millions who have vowed to vote for "anybody but Bush" a reason to believe he can be beaten. Watching the Democrats attack each other and waste their money through the primaries and all the way to the convention is a turn-off to the voting public, a powerful advantage to Bush and his $200 + million dollar war chest, and a sure strategy for a Democratic defeat in November. Every day that Lieberman, Brown, Edwards, Kerry, Sharpton, and the others remain in the race, the Bush regime benefits, as the money and energy bankrolling these pipedream campaigns is not being spent against Bush.


The Dean/Clark candidacy is a bold and surprising strategy that will generate a huge wave of publicity, and elevate Dean from "front-runner-with-major-caveats" to "it's his to lose" status. Adding Clark to the ticket also gives the Dean campaign at least a hint of a Southern strategy, as well as comfort to those who might fear that Dean is too soft on defense. Clark's "New American Patriotism" emphasizing compassion and service over anger and bombast adds appeal to those put off by Dean's sharper attacks. Clark also brings considerable foreign policy experience to the table. But the notion, circulating in some quarters, that Dean should take the VP slot on a Clark ticket flies in the face of reason, and common sense. Gov. Howard Dean has risen like a phoenix from the American electoral ashes. The Dean momentum has carried him from unknown to front-runner in record time, and he has quickly amassed more money and volunteer support than has the entire Democratic Party itself. The grassroots of Dean's campaign are strong and growing, and endorsements from the biggest union in the AFL-CIO and prominent figures such as Jesse Jackson Jr. are coming at a steady pace. The big Democratic money has been betting against him, and it hasn't hurt him at all. Some point to his Internet strategy as his ace, and while it has been a huge plus, I suspect it is Dean's unusual ability to convince people he really believes what he says that gives him the critical edge.
MORE
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17101


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I gotta be honest...I'd love to see it!
I think we supporters should start planting seeds ;)
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Me too n/t
.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. My dream ticket. Dean/Clark *sigh* nt
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eissa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. I'm drooling....
That ticket would be unbeatable. Clark has class -- he's not the front runner, yet unlike the others, shows no desperation by attacking the current front runner. I would also love to see a Dean/Graham ticket, with a Secretary of Defense position for clark (yes, I have been dreaming of a Dean cabinet!)
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. And why NOT a Clark/dean ticket??
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Of course
That would be great, too. Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean could mean 16 good years for the United States.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. As the article says...
Edited on Wed Nov-05-03 03:43 PM by chiburb
Dean has the dough, the organization, and the early lead... all things that Clark lacks.
Not saying Clark couldn't reverse this, but for now the author of this piece makes a lot of sense.
Disclosure: Undecided.

Btw Cap'n, thanks for posting this article.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Clark would have better VP options.
Edited on Wed Nov-05-03 03:48 PM by poskonig
It is difficult to maximize Dean's strengths -- organization, fundraising, clarity of message, making waves, et cetera, when he is in the VP spot. Someone from a swing state would be a better fit with Clark at the top, probably Edwards.

With Dean, he probably needs a person with foreign policy credentials who shares his view on the war, which narrows things down to Clark and Graham. Dean could find an African-American or a woman and try to win solely by turning out Democrats, but a candidate who fits the criteria above is best if we plan on getting centrists on board.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. NC
is not a swing state.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Read the article
I know that's a lot to ask
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Bingo! That's the ticket!
I love Dean, but I see America really going for Clark in a big way!
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Oh yeah, I could go for that. Clark/Dean nt
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. "You da man!"


"No, you da man!"
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robsul82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Heheh...
...that picture just reminds me of the ending to the '96 Lemmon/Garner comedy My Fellow Americans. The two are on a train, about to announce their candidacy in the next presidential election, and they still haven't decided who's going to run as President and Vice President. They hang onto each other, and then Garner (the Democrat) throws money on the ground and says, "Hey, look, Russell! Money! Is that yours?" Lemmon (the Republican) goes, "Yeah, it's mine," bends over to pick it up, and Garner slides behind the mic to say, "My fellow Americans," prompting a cut-off response from Lemmon of "You sonofa..." FtB.

Later.

RJS
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. This would be my dream ticket.
I am torn right now between these two.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'd love it!
Clark has moved up to my #2 spot recently, and I'd be THRILLED to see this ticket!
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. You're supposed to put the President FIRST!
I know there have been threads about it recently!

I don't even think Dean is in the long list for Clark's Running mate.
Edwards is on Clark's short list 4 VeeP!


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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. I've been driving this home for a month
Clark/Dean (my preference) or Dean/Clark (runner up) could kick serious butt.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Clark/Dean --- Dean/Clark --- I'd support EITHER!
And when push comes to shove, so I would hope it would be for most Democrats...
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
15. perfect
they need to unite now! time is a'wastin' gentlemen. It's a nightmare for Bush, rock solid army man/wide eyed insane doctor. let's do it! (oh, and do put the doctor in charge, yeah?)
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. LOL!
Edited on Wed Nov-05-03 03:54 PM by Capn Sunshine
"Wide eyed insane doctor" ! ROTFL

Look , I want to WIN. I know Clark supporters think their man is ready, but looking at his campaign organization makes me wonder.

But if it comes down Clark/Dean, I'm there at the HQ the next morning.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. But ... if Clark is VP, PNAC will assasinate Dean, remember?
So obviously we must have Clark/Dean :evilgrin:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Funny... In An Almost Whimsical Way
ALL the Demo Candidates are good.

I'd like Clark out front cause he'd be more likely to cut Pentagon Spending and spank out of control PNAC'ers.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't think Clark has a choice
He's a rookie in politics and it only seems fair that he starts off as a VP to someone...
Dean/Clark might be a powerful combo. Right now, I'm VERY cautious about Dean, to be honest.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Caution is a good thing
It shows you are intellectually honest. Be cautious, but remain open to Dean. :)

I'm that way with the rest of the field. ABB
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. A Democrat And Republican On One Ticket!
That's really big of Dean to embrace someone he has outed as a long-time Republican.

<>
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I forgot about that...
Can Dean and Clark even stand each other? :shrug: VERY bad body language in that photo..
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. What? There's a lotta love in that room!
Alpha males all lol
but hey Gore and Clinton weren't exactly lovers either
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No, but I think they almost "broke up"
After 2000, I remember reading something that basically said that Clinton and Gore had a screeching fight over who/how Gore lost the election. Before that, I thought they had a pretty good relationship.
Regarding Dean-
The reason I'm "cautious" about Dean is that while I have no problems with most of his stances on issues (I think he'd make a great president, BTW), his attitude of late is really rubbing me the wrong way...he's coming off as very arrogant and almost rude. But this just could be a bad week for him.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Patently untrue.
If you are aware that that is a lie, please stop spreading it. If you are not aware, read up on it. Thanks.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. A dream ticket--they complement one another perfectly.
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OKHRANA Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Clark and Dean have already talked
about lots of things in a private meeting either before Clark announced or right after, and I'm sure they have some kind of understanding that it's Dean/Clark. That makes total political sense. Clark compliments Dean's weaknesses for the general election, and Clark is too new in the political scene to win so fast on his own.
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robsul82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I remember that...
...right before Clark's "I'm in" announcement, there was some talk of Dean and Clark having a little powwow, so. Interesting times.

Later.

RJS
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. well put
I've been thinking the same thing without having quite the right words for it.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Cpan, Cpan, Cpan
What AM I doing to do with you?

I take it you missed all the threads from a few weeks back about the very big downsides Clark has in his past. I wish someone with links to those discussions would come along and share them (had a computer crash some time ago).

Let me put it this way: IMO things are so bad that I don't want Clark anywhere near Dean. I mean it. I think the Rove machine would eviscerate Clark. I don't believe they would be able to do that to Dean alone.

Nor do I any longer believe he's what he appears to be. He's so handsome and photogenic, so intelligent and well-spoken. But either he has chosen very badly in the past (and some of it fairly recent past), or he's not what he appears to be, at all. A chameleon.

There's more but I'll leave it at that.

Eloriel
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. I agree w/you 100%
But then, you knew that.

As I recently said in another thread, I will never understand why any Democrat would support a candidate wtih NO DEMOCRATIC RECORD!

And PLEASE explain to me why killing innocent men, women and children, bombing the shit out of their schools, churches and hospitals, and leaving their lands and waters poisoned for eternity classifies clark as having "foreign policy experience"?
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. Same old. - Clark did not vote for Bush and was never a Republican...
"It has been reported that Clark would be a Republican if it weren't for being slighted by Karl Rove. The record might lend credence to that, with Clark having voted for the Nixon, Reagan, and Bush presidencies. But Clark isn't alone feeling the country has been betrayed by the man he voted for, and on several issues, such as "free-trade" and fiscal policies, Clark may be less conservative than Dean."

Right............ That's great and all, except it's not true.

http://www.clarkmyths.com
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Clark/Dean Dean/Clark
IMHO opinion I do not see how they could lose. I also think that Edwards and Kerry are electable candidates, but Clark and Dean together in either combo would create landslide.
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean is the key to victory - IMO
...I hope and pray that these men are the choice in 04 to beat Bush/Cheney....excellent article worth reading:

"Given his impeccable military credentials, Clark can afford to go out on a limb, and take positions on policy that defy the usual labels of left or right. Dean may not be able to win without Clark, but it's equally doubtful Clark can win without Dean.

Finally, the need to remove Bush from the White House is a global imperative, a kind of revolution in itself."

A Dean/Clark ticket is the one to beat, and an announcement of it will enthusiastically unleash the energy and money necessary to accomplish the penultimate goal: the re-defeat of George W. Bush."

Amen, as the whole world wants Bush & the neocons out of power ASAP...

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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. Dukakis/Bentsen
The ultimate inside/outside ticket. Too bad it was upside down.
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-05-03 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. the north and the south
the two gotta wins on the same strong ticket. works for me. i've been hoping for this ticket clark/dean or dean/clark ever since clark decided to run.
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