Confederacy of dunces: Salon on the gangup on Dean.

[Classical_Liberal]

Confederacy of dunces
Howard Dean's Democratic rivals are willfully misrepresenting the candidate's reference to the Stars and Bars -- and writing off the pickup-truck vote.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Joan Walsh



Nov. 4, 2003 | Does anyone really believe that former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean was borrowing a playbook from the GOP and telegraphing coded support for Southern racism when he said, in an interview last week, "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks"? Dean explained his unorthodox approach this way: "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross section of Democrats."

I'd add this: Democrats can't beat Bush unless they abandon their elitist approach to working-class cultural conservatives, especially in the South -- and the opportunistic, preachy pile-on by Dean's Democratic opponents after his remarks won't help.

"It is simply unconscionable for Howard Dean to embrace the most racially divisive symbol in America. I would rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA," Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry huffed. Dick Gephardt rivaled Kerry in prissiness: "I don't want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the Missouri congressman said. "I will win the Democratic nomination because I will be the candidate for the guys with American flags in their pickup trucks."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/11/04/confederate_flag/index.html

[Classical_Liberal]

1. Keep this kicked as long as Dean haters continue their attack

! :kick:

[w4rma]

2. Dean & Sharpton hand in hand after the debates

"Democratic presidential hopeful former Gov. Howard Dean (news - web sites) of Vermont, left, clasps hands with Rev. Al Sharpton of New York, right, moments after the televised Rock the Vote Democratic presidential debate at Boston's Faneuil Hall, Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2003. The two hopefuls had a heated exchanged during the debate concerning voters who display the Confederate flag."(AP Photo/Michael Dwyer, Pool)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=650235

John Nichols: Rebel flag flap shows media failure

If you want to understand just about everything that is wrong with the way American politics is practiced these days - and especially with the malpractice of the media - consider the absurd controversy about Howard Dean's comment that "I want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."
…
What isn't being reported is this reality: Every single presidential candidate who is now expressing concern about Dean's remark has sat in meetings where political operatives, pollsters and consultants have discussed strategies for winning the votes of white working-class males. These voters, whose economic interests would be at least somewhat better served by Democratic policies but who tend to vote Republican for social and cultural reasons, have fueled the rise of the GOP in recent years. And Democrats are obsessed with figuring out how to reach them.

So why has the Dean comment proved to be so controversial? Good question. It has something to do with the desperation of the other candidates, who have had a hard time keeping up with the former Vermont governor's fund-raising juggernaut and highly effective grass-roots campaign. But, in truth, it has a lot more to do with the media.

Too many political reporters practice stenography to power. They simply take down what candidates have to say. This week, the other candidates are trying to paint Dean as the reincarnation of Jefferson Davis, and the media are dutifully reporting it.

More responsible and engaged media would stop to ask the deeper questions: Why do so many white working-class males vote against their own economic interests? Is it because they are racists who really do embrace the Confederacy's legacy? Is it because the Democratic Party has so abandoned populist economic messages that even voters in what were once traditional Democratic constituencies have lost faith in the party and its candidates? The answers to these questions are complicated; but they are at the core of any serious examination of our politics.

Unfortunately, most politicians are unwilling to engage in real discussions about race and economics, let alone the complex zones in which they intersect. And as the current controversy illustrates, most political reporters have lost the inclination, and perhaps even the ability, to demand better of the politicians.
…
http://www.madison.com/captimes/opinion/column/nichols/60451.php

Howard Dean campaigns in Tallahassee

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean told a Tallahassee audience today that southerners have to quit basing their votes on "race, guns, God and gays."

Dean, making his first campaign foray into North Florida, spoke at a rally in Jacksonville then addressed more than 500 people at a luncheon of the Capital Tiger Bay Club.
…
Dean said he hopes to reassemble a coalition of conservative southern voters like President Franklin Roosevelt had in the "solid South" 70 years ago. Although his opposition to the war in Iraq and his criticism of the Bush tax cuts do not score well in polls in the South, Dean said he hopes working families will support his call for improving education and health care.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/7181952.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=76824

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[Zynx]

4. Good God man! How many times have you posted this?

[w4rma]

6. Alot, but less than the number of rebel battle flag threads started. (n/t)

[mzmolly]

14. Keep on postin' W4RMA!!!

:toast:

[polpilot]

34. Dean '04....

Dean '04...

[shance]

36. Keep on spreading that divisiveness Molly!! GO BUSH GOOO!!!!!!!

You are no Wellstone Dem with that kind of statement.

[RamboLiberal]

9. WP says Dean and Sharpton went at it after debate

Off camera, Sharpton and Dean engaged in another heated exchange over the matter. "Imagine if I said that I wanted to be the candidate of people with helmets and swastikas," Sharpton said he told Dean.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3651-2003Nov5.html

I hope your photo was after a photo I saw earlier today (can't locate it now) that had Dean and Sharpton looking like they were in a heated exchange with Dean pointing his finger at Sharpton.

[Cha]

19. Sharpton bringing the nazi card up. I hope Dean told

him where he could stuff it!

[Cha]

3. Wow! At first I thought it was going to be

another "pile on" by "Salon" so I am Pleasantly surprised! Hallefreakin'lujah! :D

"Can Kerry possibly think Dean "embraced" the Confederate flag with his statement? Of course not. So Kerry's huffy reaction makes him look dishonest, not courageous. And sure, Gephardt is entitled to pass up the support of anyone he chooses, but his self-righteous Dean bashing just confirms the electorate's suspicions that Democrats are elitists who prefer ideological purity to mass appeal when casting their net for supporters."

Thank you, so much, Classical for posting this! :kick:

[LoZoccolo]

5. Remember...not only is Dean innocent of the charges...

...but the "War Vote Four" are now guilty of trying to capitalize in numerous disingenous ways on the idea that you can take something out of context and mislead people with it. And, as my name for them indicates, it isn't the first time these guys have just gone with the flow rather than come up with an honest, clear statement and try to lead and compel with it.

[mandyky]

7. I like this part -

If there was any political subtext or hidden calculation behind Dean's remarks -- and I have no evidence there was -- my guess is that he knew his candor would trigger his opponents' inner scolds. And then, while they scrambled to proclaim their political correctness, Dean would once again look like the plain-talking guy who takes risks, who says what's on his mind, who leads and doesn't merely follow. Whether Dean planned it or not, his rivals -- predictably -- took the bait.

[Selwynn]

8. I am undecided on Dean, but I agree with this article 195.7% :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Democrats: The other white meat

On edit: Howard Dean using this symbol is tantamount to him telling black Americans to "get over it," as though the flag embraces some rebel spirit without all the accompanying racism.

granted it was a poor choice of words and Ido not think he is a racist but the callous defense of him using this symbol truly disgusts me.

Even in the recent California gubernatorial race, the ONE demographic that is LOYALLY Democratic are black voters. Howard Dean has decided through his poor choice of words tat their sentiments mean less than reaching out to white males that CANNOT be counted on to vote for us.

The Democrats could just as EASILY make sure African americans are ALLOWED to vote and their votes counted and WIN but NO...they need to go after that middle percentage of voters who embrace racially divisive symbols.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Your post makes no sense

Which candidate did this?

I am not a DLC'er. Can you try using the truth? I have been an advocate for minority issues for 22 years.

[Classical_Liberal]

13. Kerry told us to get over it.

. So did Lieberman. Gephardt lead congress in not supporting the CBC walkout in protest over the issue over the vote purge in Florida. None of them have any right to talk because they objectively sold out blacks on an issue of substance.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. I'm not for Gephardt or Lieberman and Kerry was saying

GET OVER it to the whole issue not BLACK votes...but nice that you can make up things on command when it suits you. BTW, I am not a DLC'er so please stop attacking me personally on that point.

[Classical_Liberal]

21. Who do you support then?

? Edwards, because he called the rebel flag frivolous culture war politics. BTW these are the candidate that have been make a stink about it. So what is your point.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. I am undecided. I have tried to take an objective look at all the

candidates.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. Gee a burning cross is just symbolic too..maybe he should have said that

[mzmolly]

18. Nah, I don't think that would have generated the standing ovation in Feb

:eyes:

[Classical_Liberal]

20. Oh please!

most people that have this symbol on their truck aren't kkk. Everyone who burns a cross while tresspassing on a black persons property to lynch them is kkk.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Do you know most people who have this on their truck?

Or is this more conjecture?

[Classical_Liberal]

26. I grew up in small town America

What's your point? It got really popular during the Dukes of Hazard era.

[Cha]

17. I disagree! It isn't "tantamount to telling Black Americans

to get over it". Au contraire..

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)



"The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR."

Govenor Howard Dean~

[seventhson]

27. I Guess gaining the Honorable Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr's Support

is abandoning African Americans.

Bullshit

Getting poor whites from the south to vote WITH African Americans as well as Latinos and middle Americans of all stripes is Intelligent and HELPS both "whites" and "Blacks".

That protrects the rights of African Americans better than anything else.

[mzmolly]

24. Wow, get this...

"Post-election surveys showed that rural whites in both states crossed over to vote Republican, and that the flag controversy was a crucial reason why." EEK!

Great article, thanks for posting.

[RummyTheDummy]

25. Salon being remotely objective about Dean is like......

Newsmax being remotely objective about Dems. In other words, it doesn't happen. Salon has been on the pro Dean, anti everyone else bandwagon for some time. They have no credibility on this issue.

[Classical_Liberal]

28. Actually Salon has been prokerry

If you read the article you can see that they think Deans approach is important for all Dems not just Dean.

[Cha]

30. So much for

rummythedummy's theory that "they have no credibility on this issue".

[Cha]

29. Joan Walsh made some interesting points in her

article...

"Dean put his finger on something crucial that explains the Democrats' lack of nationwide mass appeal: While they correctly addressed the problems of racism from the 1960s on, they lost sight of the issues of class, which don't always dovetail with race. Defending his remarks yesterday in Iowa, Dean explained: "What Franklin Roosevelt did was to get the Southern white working class to vote with the Southern African-American working class," said Dean, about the former Democratic president. "The only time we're ever going to make progress in this country is when black people and white people and brown people work together and put race aside." I happen to believe that, too. It's disturbing if other candidates don't."

[quaker bill]

31. Amen

A kick for the pm crew.

Poor metaphor for the southern workers abused by right-to-work (right-to-be-under-paid) laws or not, the concept is sound.

Living here I can say the poor whites in the south have been voting against their best interest since the 60's.

[DrFunkenstein]

32. Slate On Dean's Arrogant Refusal To Budge

Dean handled tonight's kerfuffle over the Confederate flag poorly, and he did so in a way that raises a worrisome question about his candidacy. Why is he so obstinate about admitting that he was wrong? Earlier in the campaign, when Dean was confronted with changes in his positions on trade, on Social Security, and on Medicare, his first instinct was to deny that he had held the earlier position. Surely it would have been far easier to just say, hey, I made a mistake.

Something similar happens tonight. Dean could easily have pointed out that he phrased his comment slightly differently this time, and he could see how it was misinterpreted. It is, after all, somewhat different to say that you want to "be the candidate" for those who wave the Confederate flag than to say that you want to bring those voters into your party. The latter suggests at least some effort to change hearts and minds, while the former implies that you just want to be their standard-bearer. Sure, he calls the Confederate flag a "loathsome symbol," a "racist symbol," and he says the party shouldn't embrace it. But on the matter of admitting that he made a teeny, tiny error, Dean won't budge.

In a way he created his own mess tonight. Had he simply answered the question he was asked by an audience member—"Could you explain to me how you plan on being sensitive to needs and issues regarding slavery and African-Americans, after making a comment of that nature?"—he might have gotten off more easily. But instead of explaining what he wants to do for African-Americans, Dean decides to talk about white people. "There are 102,000 kids in South Carolina right now without health insurance. Most of those kids are white. The legislature cut $70 million out of the school system. Most of the kids in the public school system are white. We have had white southern working people voting for Republican for 30 years, and they've got nothing to show for it." This is all fine and good, and I'm generally against targeting political appeals to specific ethnic groups, but it was shockingly tone deaf for Dean to respond this way. The question was, how will you be sensitive to the needs of black people? Dean's response was, by working to help white people.

Al Sharpton jumps on Dean and says, "You are not a bigot, but you appear to be too arrogant to say 'I'm wrong,' and go on." (After the debate, Dean mistakenly attributes this comment to John Edwards.) Then, John Edwards stands up to confront Dean and delivers one of the best shots of the evening: "Because let me tell you the last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do." By the time Edwards is done, you can feel his poll numbers among Southerners with chips on their shoulders start to spike."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2090748/

[Classical_Liberal]

33. In an interview on TV before this flag flap started Edwards said

the flag was a frivolous and divisive culture war issue used successfully to get southerners to vote against there interests. He has no credibility, and neither does this article. May I also observe that Edwards is running for President of the USA, and not just the South. What right has he to come to the North and tell them how to run things?

[Classical_Liberal]

35. Kick

:kick: