Hunters are just alright with me

[ThorsteinVeblen]

When I was 24 or so I had a friend whose brother was a wildlife bioligist in Euphrata Washington. This friend had spent two full summers with his brother up in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge banding Canadian Geese.

I was having a conversation with my friend about hunting and I got up on my liberal pedastal and did my self-righteous bit about hunting.

My friend pointed out that ALL the meat I eat is from animals that are killed after living a nightmarish existence in slaughterhouses and that killing wild animals for food is incredibly more moral than going to the Metropolitan Grill to eat steak or McDonalds for a Hamburger or the grocery store for chicken.

That said I also have a friend whose father is the intellectual force behind "moral hunting" and thinks that Ted Nugent is a psycho, twisted, freak. He will get no argument from me.

[spunky]

1. all the more reason to go veggie!

:P

[Piperay]

4. Yup, slaughter houses

are horrid, glad I don't eat meat. :-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I live near the Tyson chicken farms

The poor birds are fed arsnic and worse. They are never allowed to wander about, but are kept penned. I often drive behind 'gut trucks' which stink of death.

I have had free range chickens and turkeys and they taste much different than the other kind. Same for beef.

Hunters who respect the animals they kill, who kill to eat the meat (which isn't tainted with chemicals, etc), they are ok. The ones who go out in the woods drunk, or go only to get a 'trophy', they are a menace and a danger, imho.

[Wellong]

9. How am I a menace and a danger?

The ones who go out in the woods drunk, or go only to get a 'trophy', they are a menace and a danger, imho.

I eat what I kill, but you damn well bet that every time I go into the woods I am on a trophy hunt as well.

[Sick of Bullshit]

10. The other side of the coin, as one who experienced it in rural MO,

is that some hunters tend to run through people's property, even yards, in pursuit of a deer. Not every kill is a clean one, and an animal can suffer for days with an arrow or slug in its shoulder.

And then there are the hunters who shoot at anything that moves, and can't even tell a damn cow or horse from a deer.

[Wellong]

13. those you are talking about

are an extreme minority of the hunting community.

[IrateCitizen]

32. Which you'll see the initial poster did NOT include you in...

The ones who go out in the woods drunk, or go only to get a 'trophy'...

Not to get a trophy and eat their kill, as you do. But for the purpose of ONLY getting a trophy. I grew up deer hunting, so I am well aware of how EVERYONE sets out with "buck fever" to get that big 8-point.

Unless you are actually a member of the group that the initial poster was referring to, which it appears you are not, why not just agree with the statement and move along instead of trying to create an argument where there is none to begin with???

[msmcghee]

35. Not true . . .

. . every year in N Idaho at least one hunter is killed by another - who thinks he's a deer, bear, whatever.

That comes from wanting to bag the animal more than wanting to participate in the hunt. In fact - the reason many hunters have their rifles hanging in their pickup is if they see a deer in a field while they are driving - they can fill their tag.

And a large number of hunters drink while hunting. Grouse hunters in this part of the country do so while driving the logging roads with their guns and a case of beer. They would never think of walking through the woods to do it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

39. in PA, on the first day of 'buck'

there are probably a million people with guns in the woods. usually someone dies but more often than not, it's from a heart attack.

i know it's trite to say, but you ar more likely to die in a car wreck getting to wherever you are hunting than by being shot.

[msmcghee]

40. I'd like to see a world . .

. . where everyone dies of old age. Especially where people do not die from arrogance and stupidity and alcohol abuse - which is what most hunting "accidents" are.

And back east I believe they use shotguns with buckshot that have a useful range of a hundred yards or less.

Out here many hunters carry civilian equivalents of high powered sniper rifles - that call kill a large mammal at up to a mile.

[3CardMonte]

44. Got proof

of your claim that most hunting accidents are caused by alcohol? Not saying it isn't true, but proof would be nice.

Also, one doesnt use buck shot to hunt deer or other large game. Buck shot is used for small game and birds. Slugs are used for big game in shotguns. And rifle hunting is done in the east as well. I hunt shotgun, rifle, and bow. Both in NY and NC.

[msmcghee]

50. The alcohol claim . .

. . is just from hearing so many reports on the radio and in the papers over the years . . that the hunter who shot his friend had been drinking. Just anecdotal.

Right on the buckshot. I've never shot a slug through my gun so I got them mixed up. I don't hunt big game - just birds.

Thanks for the info on the east coast. What determines whether an area is OK for shotgun or rifle?

[3CardMonte]

53. Shotgun vs. rifle

Shotguns can be used anywhere that hunting is allowed. "Rifle Country" as it is often called is generally areas that are far away from any residential areas. Normally several miles at a minimum because of the range that a wayward rifle bullet can travel.

[Hep]

42. PA

The first day of buck season is a school holiday, no?

[IrateCitizen]

45. First two, usually.

At least it was in my school district growing up.

My uncle, who was a teacher and avid hunter, got just the first day of buck season -- but he also got the first day of doe season as well.

The first day of doe was always a bit "sparse", attendance-wise, at my school.

[Hep]

47. Where are you from?

My family hails from Schuylkill county.

[IrateCitizen]

49. About 40 mi NE of Pittsburgh

If you look at where Armstrong, Butler, Westmoreland and Allegheny Counties all come together, you'll see a little speck of a town called Freeport.

My family still lives about 4 miles outside of that speck.

I also lived on the east side for a while -- I went to school at Drexel, in Philadelphia, and lived just outside Philly for a year after school before moving to NY.

[msmcghee]

38. And about the trophy thing.

Just think about it.

[FauxNewsBlues]

3. A friend who hunts

Goes after 1 deer per season. He butchers all the meat, uses the pelt, and all the bones for native american crafts. This one deer keeps him fed with meat for a good 6 months. If one eats meat, and hunts this way, it is more moral than going and ordering a triple cheese burger, eating half of it, then going back for another the next day. It teaches you to respect what you are eating. He also fishes, eats every bit of the fish.

Vegetarians have an argument. Meat eaters though should really lay off hunters who actually do respect what they eat, and how they got it. Supermarket aisle hunters who criticize those who kill what they eat, really need to keep quiet on this issue.

[spunky]

5. As much as I oppose killing any animal

I have to say I have a bit more respect for those who kill their own meat. At least that takes some skill. If all meat were raised/killed the way it used to be before these huge corporate farms, and animals were treated humanely, I might not be a veggie.

[childslibrarian]

6. I agree I think if you kill your own animals

you have the right to eat meat. Since I don't I'm a veggie...

[hunter]

7. Thanks!

;-)

Actually I'm mostly a vegetarian, well except for tonight, when I am feeding my family a small chunk of a cow I bought at the grocery store today. (Thank you cow!)

My dog eats meat too, but not very much. The first ingredient on her bag of dry dog food is "Ground Yellow Corn," so I guess she is almost a vegetarian too. But my dog's dream date is to hunt down a wild pig (they are non-native and bad for the local environment, you know) but I guess I'm not yet hungry enough to do that.

It is much easier to drive to the supermarket, and I don't have to pick ticks off of everyone afterwards.

I do not understand anyone who enjoys killing animals, but I do understand people who eat animals. But certainly, the ethics of it all get very complicated.

[roughsatori]

8. People who eat Big Macs and hate Hunters

are slightly humorous to me. Thanks for the post.

[leesa]

11. Of course eating meat is completely unnecessary so hunting is

also unnecessary.

[SomeAreSalt]

12. Do you ever do anything unnecessary?

I'd guess most of us do.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. So is living

I choose to do both living and eating thank you. And, no, I don't hunt. Unless my live is in danger, I don't shoot anything. But if I were starving, it would be a different matter.

[RebelOne]

18. Amen!!!!

[Guaranteed]

21. You're one of those people who wastes water by having a toilet,

aren't you?

[StClone]

15. I like hunting

I especially like Bow hunters.

Deer need blasting, too many!

Geese numbers are so high they are eating themselves out of home.

What I despise is the ATVs and 4-WD chewing up our outdoors because the hunters won't walk in and are to meek to carry out their kills.

Elk is primo.

[Wellong]

25. Too meek?

I use an ATV to carry my kill out of the woods at my hunting camp. You try carrying a several hundred pound animal a half mile, up hill. There are some areas of my camp that are at a 40+ degree grade. You can not carry the animal out without mechanical help.

[StClone]

30. If only

My buddy and I can sling a deer on a pole and carry it for miles. Glacial landscape is no picnic to navigate but does great things for the appetite. Of course I am an stubborn old man in great shape that's my excuse.

[IrateCitizen]

36. Sure you can!

My uncle just got back from an Elk hunt in CO. When he made his kill, it was in a deep ravine over a mile from their camp. They had gone in on horseback, but he couldn't get a horse down there.

So, he dressed it and hung it in a tree, and began carrying it back in quarters. It took him the whole day, but he did it.

Mechanical help is a matter of convenience, nothing else. Don't make it a matter of "need", because it is far from it.

[Skittles]

16. HUNTING - THE SPORT OF COWARDS

FLAME AWAY; I don't care WHAT hunters come up with - the fact is, they ENJOY KILLING ANIMALS FOR ENTERTAINMENT. And that not only is DISGUSTING, it is COWARDLY.

[RebelOne]

19. Agreed.

Hunting can't really be called a sport since the other side doesn't know that a game is going on.

[Guaranteed]

23. So...I take it you're not a Kerry supporter? nt

[RebelOne]

56. No definitely not.

Kucinich for me, naturally.

[Hep]

28. People who hate hunters are mamas boys

I don't care what anyone says. The fact is, they never wanted to stop breast feeding.

What kind of liberal makes such hateful generalizations and expects to get away with it? I expect vitriolic moral judgments from the religious right, not from people on my side of the idealogical fence.

[RebelOne]

55. I do not hate hunters, I just hate hunting.

And I'm not a mama's boy, since I am a woman.

[Hep]

58. I was joking anyway

I just think that generalizations are SO weak.

Skittle trying to tell me what MY family thinks and how they feel. I find it disgusting and unbecoming a well meaning, intelligent person.

I don't hunt. I find it boring. It's not the blood or the killing, just the hiking and the waiting and the being quiet. Not my bag. But I eagerly await the fruits of other people's hunts. I'll take anything, bear, deer, elk, antelope (my favorite), pheasant, whatever.

[StClone]

29. Skittles

I know several families that rely on hunting and fishing for food. They NEED to hunt.

If there are proper outdoors places for non-hunters to enjoy the quiet I could care less, except for lead shot effects on waterfowl, it's no problem. Deer are destroying property and even killing people on the roads...hunting removes some of these animals that'll die a slow natural death.

[IrateCitizen]

34. Don't waste your time trying to reason with emotion, StClone

Skittles is demonstrating a wholly emotional response to this issue. Attempting to reason with her on it will result only in your frustration. It is perfectly clear that she considers hunting to be cowardly. And since I am certain that she NEVER eats any beef, chicken, pork, fish, or any other kind of meat -- she is perfectly justified in her mind for having this point of view.

[Hammie]

54. No lead shot

Lead shot hasn't been legal for waterfowl hunting for something like 20 years. Waterfowl shot must be approved by the federal govt. to be legal. On federal refuges, BLM officers regularly inspect shells for compliance. Since there is no market for lead waterfowl rounds, you can't even find any to buy if you wanted to.

Competition to improve the performance of non-toxic shells has lead to substantial improvement in shotshell ballistics, and even to the development of shot that is ballistically superior to lead, though substantially more expensive.

[KFC]

31. Not if you are hunting elephants

A friend of mine was damn near killed hunting elephants in Zimbabwe. I think you could put lions, tigers, and bears into the same category.

[PVnRT]

33. Yeah, that's it

You have succesfully read the mind of everyone who has ever hunted in the history of the planet Earth. Congratulations! You should use these psychic abilities of yours to go solve all the thousands of unsolved crimes that plague city police departments all over the United States.

Tell me, do you eat meat at all? Ever seen what happens in a slaughterhouse?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

57. I assume you are a vegan then?

Hunting isn't just a "sport" it's called "getting dinner".

[Spentastic]

17. Yes

And I've got lots of respect for those that generate their own electricity :eyes:

Simple division of labour.

Hunting for "fun" is not logically equivalent with eating industrially processed meat.

If people hunt solely for meat, fine. If we all did it, "the wild" would be empty in about a week. But lots of hunters don't just hunt for the meat do they?

Some like killing stuff.

[Wellong]

26. There was a time

If people hunt solely for meat, fine. If we all did it, "the wild" would be empty in about a week.

There was a time (1000's of years) where exactly that was done and "the wild" never went empty.

In fact, there are still parts of the world where hunting is the sole source of meat and "the wild" isn't empty.

[Art_from_Ark]

27. Hunting as sole source of meat

There are very few societies left in the world where this is the case. Those societies that do rely exclusively on hunting for meat acquisition all have very low populations.

[slackmaster]

41. There's usually a lot more to it than a quest for food

Most hunting in the US is done for male bonding, camaraderie, as a rite of passage to manhood, or just to get away from the women and kids for a few days.

[Loonman]

20. Non-commital

I've never hunted myself but had plenty of tasty venison.


Veggies and Vegans don't bother me in the least unless they do it for political and not health reasons.

[Wellong]

22. They can do it for any reason

they want and it doesnt bother me. It annoys me though when they try to preach and convert me to their side. Isn't going to happen.

[Loonman]

24. Exactly

I'll eat my meat, they can eat their veggies, so I won't preach, they won't preach.

Pass the salt.

[GumboYaYa]

37. Hunters are also some of the first environmentalists.

Ducks Unlimited began buying wetlands to preserve them long before anyone else. There are literally hundreds of examples of conservation programs run by hunters and hunting organizations.

[Hep]

43. I would say

conservationists before I would say environmentalists.

[GumboYaYa]

48. True, point well taken. n/t

[brucelee]

46. very nice story

[Robin Hood]

51. One of the LA fires was started by a hunter shooting off a marker flare.

That has gotten little press.

[slackmaster]

52. It happened in San Diego County

The Cedar Fire. The guy was inexperienced, out of shape, dehydrated, and lost (none of which excuses his role in starting the fire).

We have backcountry fires set off by all kinds of things here. The most common are illegal campfires, lightning strikes, and carelessly discarded cigarette butts. Hunters only rarely start fires. Most of them are responsible and careful.

The Cedar Fire was going to happen sooner or later. Sergio Martinez of West Covina was the unlucky, hapless bastard who happened to be the spark that set it off.