The most important part of this Dean flag fiasco

[WilliamPitt]

I'm going to expose myself as the soulless, cold, bloodless political assassin I like to think I see when I look in the mirror in the morning at my soulless, cold, bloodless political assassin's eyes.

What Dean said or means to say or should have said is immaterial as far as I am concerned. Whether he is the victim of a coordinated Democratic feeding frenzy, or whether he is the victim of his own mouth, is moot. I don't care. You can search every nook and cranny of my soulless, cold, bloodless political assassin's heart and not find one quark, atom or molecule's worth of caring. I don't even really care about the race angle on this thing, because race isn't the issue here. The political football this has become is the issue.

There is only one important thing happening here. That one important thing is simlpe: The wolf is loose.

Whether he deserves it or not, whether he is a victim or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that Dean has now the first real tornado to touch down on his campaign. Everything about his run now depends upon how well he handles this.

He can apologize, and if that works, great.

He can bore it and stroke it and shove it up the other candidate's nether regions, and if that works, great.

Whatever he does, it has to work.

This is why.

This flap over the Confederate flag is approximately 0.0000000000007% as harsh, brutal, ruinous, bloody, pack-oriented and bruising as whatever Karl Rove & Co. will be throwing at him if he wins through to the general election.

All of Dean's great positions don't matter. His ability to represent a great many people doesn't matter. His ability to inspire doesn't matter.

As a candidate, all that matters right now is how well or poorly he deals with this. If he can't deal with it - even if it is unfair - he does not deserve to be within a million miles of the nomination, because if he can't handle this, he will get thrown under the bus by the Republicans faster than you can say "Dixie."

This is it. This is the test. Personally, I hope he passes the test. I like having Dean and the other eight out there yelling about Bush to anyone who will listen. Let the primaries decide.

But if Dean can't tame this particular wolf, that will be the deciding factor right there. This is what front-runners have to deal with. It is, again, 0.0000000000007% as harsh, brutal, ruinous, bloody, pack-oriented and bruising as what will come in the General.

[ALago1]

1. Agreed

The primary process is primarilly a means to weed out the ppl who can't handle the heat of prime time.

[asjr]

9. dean

Dean can and will handle it.

[ALago1]

14. As a Dean supporter I hope he can

But, I have some, albeit minor, reservations regarding his perceived "temper". For example, at some debates, particularly the one in which he was being attacked for his Medicare stance, I thought he was inches away from exploding and creating an unfavorable scene.

He hasn't erupted in any of his public forums while governor of VT. Still, that is like AA minor league ball compared to the presidential campaign.

It's gonna get interesting, that's for sure!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[WilliamPitt]

5. I support all the candidates

[Scott Lee]

53. Well that's sweet Will, but.....

you do realize the day is coming when you'll have to choose one. Sooner, if the feeding frenzy intensifies as the also-rans desperately try to keep sinking the USS Dean.

[specimenfred1984]

74. You Told Me "Fuk LaRouche"

And he's a dem candidate who's raised more money that Clark, Kucinich, Sharpton and Braun.

So, do you support all the dems candidates or not? And, why did you cuss at me? I'm a Dean supporter and a lifetime democrat.

[aldian159]

3. absolutly correct Pitt

n/t

[Jim Sagle]

4. As a Dean supporter, I agree 100%. And I am strangely optimistic.

[Warpy]

25. Same here

Dean is no political neophyte. He's also never been protected and coddled by the inside the beltway culture. He knows what these guys are (DLC!!) and how nasty they can get. He also knows what the right wing is composed of.

Yes, he made the mistake of thinking the Confederate Rag means the same thing to all people. The fact that all the DLC approved candidates jumped on him for it is very telling.

So far, his self control has been admirable.

[Blue_Roses]

27. he may know what the right wing

is composed of, but he hasn't experienced their wrath yet. And with all do respect, Clinton was NEVER coddled by the beltway culture. If anything he was also put through the ringer.

[arcane1]

6. makes perfect sense to me, with one clarification:

the flag fiasco is actualy app 0.0000000000001% of what Karl has in store next year

I have a feeling we'll be looking back on the Clinton era as a time when repubes were kind & fair & honest

[frank frankly]

7. Yes, it is a very clear test.

If he makes it through it, it might be impossible to catch up to him. Getting the SEIU endorsement and likely declining matching funds should be enough to offset this mostly bad publicity.

Between money concerns and the fact that all the other contenders seem to be banking on South Carolina, I think time is running out fast for anyone to catch up to Dean.

[Skwmom]

8. I don't really see how Dean can fix this.

First the affirmative action debacle and now the confederate flag fiasco. Based on what I am hearing from African Americans in the south Dean is toast.

[Closer]

10. LOL

Toast eh? HAHA, you WISH!

Tell that to Jesse Jackson and soon to be Sheila Jackson Lee.


Thanks for the laugh tonight.

[ShaneGR]

18. Are either of those from the 'south?'

Granted, Sheila Jackson Lee is certainly from Texas... but I don't consider that to be oldschool confederate south.

As for Jesse Jackson, or Junior, they're from Illinois. As for Jesse Jackson Jr., I saw him give a speech last summer where he basically insulted the entire south. So, not exactly the best way to win over southerners.

[WilliamPitt]

11. You've spoken to *all* the African Americans in the South?

I always find it remarkable that the African Americans are so often able to think and act as one monolithic body. :eyes:

[Skwmom]

16. No. But I have talked to many African Americans in a couple of the

southern states and the negative reaction has been VERY strong. Of course we have the white commentators on the cable shows saying this is no big deal. The black vote is critical in the 04 election (the black voter turn out was one of the major reasons Gore did so well).

On edit: Did you read my post? Notice the "qualifier" in my statement: based on what I am hearing.

[Cha]

37. And we have Jesse Jackson Jr and

http://www.blacksfordean.com

Dean is talking about "unity among all against the corporates."


Dean Will do well among the African Americans because our Campaign wants everyone in the tent and we will work very hard for it.

[juajen]

17. Well, he did sorta apologize

when he announced the vote by his supporters on whether to accept or decline federal money for his campaign. I thought it was a pretty good "message". He said that his previous statement was "clumsily phrased" or something on that order, and then elaborated on the "no vote left behind" kick. All in all, I think it went well. Don't know how it'll play in Dothan, Alabama, though.

[Forkboy]

28. What are you hearing?

And can we hear it to?

[Cha]

31. Yeah ..right.

huh huh. :scared:

[RetroLounge]

42. Based on what I am hearing from African Americans

Are they ALL calling you?

Man, your phone must be ringing off the hook, because when I think of who the African Americans in the South would call to voice their displeasure, Skwmom is the first name that comes to mind.

[AP]

43. When did anecdotal evidence become off-limits when talking about dean?

[maha]

59. African American voters are smart

I understand African Americans are the only demographic that never supported Dubya, for example. That means a bigger percentage of African American had his number than has been true of whites.

IF African Amrican voters get to hear what Dean actually said, I think they're smart enough to understand what he said, and that he wasn't making a racist statement.

[Andromeda]

70. Ya think?

Better tell everybody to stay home on election day then. Skwmom has spoken.

[AP]

12. So maybe race isn't the core issue here.

But if it were, I think it's important to keep in mind that many conservatives think that race is THE probelm in the US. They blame many problems on race. Sometimes they don't do it blatantly, but, you know, how many dinner parties do you have to sit through where a suburban white father is anxious about his daughter getting into his alma matter...ok, I'll tell that story some other time.

Liberals, on the other hand, are evolving into a party which doesn't see race as the problem. A big reason for that is because LOTS of them either aren't white, are immigrants, children of immigrants, or are working class, or have working class parents and have college educations, and all tend to have a more informed opinion on what the real problems with America are.

And you know what? I think Philladelphia is a nice model for how Democrats deal with race. They can see an racially motivated, RW FBI bugging for what it is.

[AP]

26. What happens when you fuck over your base:

Remember a month ago, someone posted a story by the guy who had a friend who was a labor leader in WV. Gore sent Tipper to a WV labor meeting that every Dem candidate since Johnson had attended so that he could go to a environmentalists meeting somewhere else.

That union leader worked hard, but not as hard as he could have for Gore. Gore didn't win WV.

You have to work for votes. They don't magically appear. And, yes, the union was capricious and stupid, and they fucked themselves by not working hard for Gore. But Gore fucked himself, and all of us for not having his priorities in order.

I think that's probably a good thing to remember when you're thinking about how you want to treat your base.

There are only two blocks of voters which vote out of proportion to their representation in the population: unions and black voters.

[no name no slogan]

48. EXACTLY-- don't ignore your base

It's just like Al Sharpton said in one of the earlier debates: you keep taking us to the dance, but then you leave with somebody else. I think that goes for ALL the candidates.

In an attempt to attract so-called "moderates" I see too many of our candidates dashing to the right. Is is really worth picking up that 5% of the vote while alienating the 10% you should naturally have in your pocket?

[BeFree]

13. I thought he stumbled

Granted, I don't watch the candidates much... but he stumbled today trying to get past this. In all fairness, the shots he took last night would have put a hurting on anyone, so there is that. Now it seems as if this whole issue is about race... how'd that happen? All he said at first was that he wanted those knuckleheaded flag wavers to vote Dem. <g>

But to differ I will say that no one can hurt you as much as those who are family members. * ain't no family member. The shots our candidate will take in 04 won't have the same kind of sting. Harsh, yes, but do you think the Pugs are gonna play the race card the same as Sharpton?

[Catherine Vincent]

15. You are 100% correct!

How he handles this situation is what matters. If Dean wins the nomination, he better celebrate that night only because the republicans have a lot of money behind ole whisle ass Bush* and they are goanna use every cent of it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. Agreed. To a certain extent.

While the shit that Rove dishes out will be more odious, it can be countered to a certain extent as partisan electioneering. This shit-dish has a little more bite because it comes from within the family. Either way, he has to find a way to dispose of a shit sandwich.

Take a bite,
spit it out
Take these rules,
rip 'em up, tear 'em down
-Circle Jerks "World Up My Ass"

[Cha]

35. Dean has known from the get go

that gepkerwards are politically expedient.

[madison]

20. Let's dish it out to Bush.

It is very disheartening (even though true) that we are all sitting here speculating about how well our candidate will be able to "take it" when Karl Rove and his fellow "assassins" start dishing it out.

I just wish we would spend as much energy planning for ways to make Bush's life as miserable as "they" plan to make the Democratic candidate's life.

Let's get up some steam here and make some plans to dish it out to Bush.

[indigo32]

22. Amen

Jesus we are tough on our own. Now how are we going to beat *

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Eloriel]

51. Yep. That's pretty much exactly how I see it.

Devastatingly accurate assessments of those other candidates.

Eloriel

[dweller]

56. WOW! it's like i just woke up after the election 04

and things are the same...the *moron lies, and now dean supporters tell me to get over it...

thanks for the reminder that i will vote my conscious decision, and not have it shoved down my throat.

ABB may have to qualify also ABD.

dp

[JohnKleeb]

63. It aint over yet dweller

:hi: you can tell me that if he gets the nod in July until now, I support my candiate and you have yours.

[paulk]

62. Are you for real?

Save some of that venom for Bush, dude.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VelmaD]

24. As is so frequently the case...

you are correct again. Karl Rove is a rabid, salivating maniac and he will do his damnedest to rip open whoever wins the Dem nomination from tonsils to toes. If the candidates can't handle a little Democratic primary infighting then we are doomed in the general election. Doomed I tells ya.

It's political selection - survival of the fittest. Only the strongest survives. But, at the end we hopefully have someone left who's tough enough to deal with that pack of blood-thirsty lunatics currently occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[sistersofmercy]

29. You sure get that right! But I also think the Dem candidate will have

many fronts to attack Bush* Co. (Really bad pun, oh well)

[polpilot]

30. No problem for Dean...It's difficult to take when your own party turns on

you but Dean understands these politico-whores, Bush-lite, feeble in the lime light wanna be's. If Edwards thought he'd have Air force 1 for his own he'd be in a perpetual orgasm!!! How's that for offensive!! WhoooHooo!!!

Dean '04...

[AP]

34. I thought you were talking about voters, but I see you're talking

about Dean.

I'd be more worried about the base feelign the party has turned on them.

[KaraokeKarlton]

32. This is minor compared to other things Dean has dealt with

He's had Civil Unions protestors spit on him and call him a child molestor for supporting Civil Unions. Death threats, vandalism on his property, threatening phone calls at home and he even had to wear a bullet proof vest while campaigning. He won THAT election. Knowing that, do you still think he will be set back by this minor snag? I sure don't.

[Closer]

33. Sweet Post!

Thanks for the reminder KaraokeKarlton!

[Cha]

40. Yeah! "Thanks for the reminder"!

I know Dean won't be "set back"!

[Andromeda]

72. If he is as tough as you say he is...

he should have no problem dealing with Bush & Co.

[whirlygigspin]

73. yup

Dean was wearing his bullet proof vest and the most vile
people you can imagine attacked him, spit on him, oh man,
he's been in the fire before. It was UGLY. He's ready to
kick their ass again, out of the White House and out of
DC.

Eat shit fundy wacko's, your time has come.

[Sweetpea]

36. He needs to apologize and move on

america deserves humility in a leader after the past 3 years. To not apologize, will send almost the same message the Bush sends..that he is above apology when needed to unify.

[Cha]

38. He already has.

[RetroLounge]

44. But not directly to the Dean Bashers on DU

and not the way they wanted it.

and not fast enough.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

[Cha]

46. Precisely! DEan did it his way!

WooHoo! :D

[madison]

41. Dean DID apologize

Dean Apologizes for Confederate Flag Flap

Howard Dean, trying to quell a politically damaging flap over the Confederate flag, belatedly apologized Wednesday for inflicting "a lot of pain on people" by urging Democrats to court Southerners who display the symbol of the Confederacy. In one of the most tumultuous days of his front-running campaign, the Democratic presidential candidate accused his rivals of misconstruing his remarks and pledged to continue reaching out to Southern white voters despite the criticism.

But he sought to put the matter to rest -- first by expressing regret and, hours later, by apologizing in an interview with The Associated Press. Rivals accused him of saying too little, too late after he had declined in Tuesday night's debate to admit error.

<snip>

Later, he called the AP to clarify the comments in his speech.

"That was an apology. You heard it from me," Dean said. "It was a remark that inflicted a lot of pain on people for whom the flag of the Confederacy is a painful symbol of racism and slavery."

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031106/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_2004_6

[Upfront]

47. To Apologize

when you have done nothing wrong is a sign of weakness. Dean is not weak. He did say he is sorry if he hurt someone but he stands by his statement. We need to talk to Republican voters in the South who should be voting Democrat. This whole thing is an attempt to bring Dean down and it has failed big time. I am ashamed of the Bush lite crew, but not at all supprised. Dr. Dean means to win some votes in the South and he needs our help.

[KittyWampus]

39. Dean Has Been Through The Crucible

And he may be in it again.

The road to the White House is a long row to hoe.

[RetroLounge]

45. I agree Will, and I think Dean has already

and will continue to do fine.

[Duder]

49. One word Will...

Teflon.

[He loved Big Brother]

68. That's what I call Dean.

n/t

[Ugnmoose]

50. Politics is a very dirty game

And any candidate worth his salt knows how to handle tough issues and turn them around. Hopefully, Dean will not let this get the better of him. It is bad enough when the opposition party jumps all over you. That is to be expected. What is unfortunate is how many of the other Dem candidates took up the charge. We should not be eating our own over this type of "un-issue". This country is facing some very serious problems. The Dems need to keep their eyes on the prize and not focus on such petty issues.

[Scott Lee]

52. DLC statists know no other way

They are entitled, you see, to the nomination. Much as DimSon felt he was entitled to the presidency because of his last name and lifetime of privilege.

I'm swiftly getting to the point of feeling like yarking every time I see an image of that hang-dog Kerry, or phoney Gefart, or self righteous Lieberman. They soooo represent what is wrong with the Democrat party and why the Democrats will keep losing if they cling to this stale strategy.

[Amaya]

54. Very well said..

Thanks for writing what I've been thinking :)

[poskonig]

55. Good post.

So far, Dean is pissing off the people he is trying to appeal to by calling their flag "racist," while pissing off black people by trying to appeal to these very same Confederate flag lovers.

It is a good idea, but the Dean camp is doing a lousy job implementing it. If he wants to defend the confederate flag, he shouldn't waffle and call it "racist." If that is part of the "apology," it needs to be quick, upfront, honest, and crystal clear.

While I think the flag issue itself is insignificant, how Dean is reacting to the pressure is, and I'm dissatisfied.

[mandyky]

57. I think Dean has already tamed the wolf

and come out ahead of the game.

Think about it this way - The statement was made on Sunday and ever since then this incident has been getting lots of press - 3 days of press. And when southerners hear "Dean likes the Confederate flag" or whatever it is spin as, people already curious about Dean will try to find out more about him.

Dean has addressed this with an apology for any hurt feelings, and even the media whores are being half way truthful that this flap is nothing new, they all know about the DNC winter meet speech on the same topic. And Dean isn't backing down. If Bill Clinton can come off in NH in 1992 as the winner, when Tsongas actually won, Dean and his loyal army can ride out this trumped up bunch of crap the sour grape gang is trying to make of Dean's flag comment.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. Apparently he has apologized proving he isn't as fucked up as some of

his supporters are and that he RECOGNIZES when he has invoked a symbol of RACISM to score points:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=202412

At the same time he said his comments had been misconstrued and he did not back away from his conviction that the party had to make inroads with white Southerners noting that the Republicans "have played the race card" since 1968 and the Democrats had to find a way to win them back with issues like health insurance. He insisted "the African-American community gets this."

Throughout the day Dr. Dean, 54, appeared subdued and reflective, a sharp contrast to the defiant tone he struck at Tuesday night's debate.

He said that his main mistake had been not immediately condemning the flag during the debate, and that he had decided to change course as he came to understand that his comments had been personally offensive to two of his rivals, the Rev. Al Sharpton, who is black, and Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06DEAN.html?hp

[incapsulated]

60. I agree *but*

I'm not optimistic. His latest:

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean told a Tallahassee audience today that southerners have to quit basing their votes on "race, guns, God and gays."

Yes, they will just love this in the south. Way to build bridges, tell people their "values" and voting habits are stupid. And this is right after the flag farce and Dean being accused of "sterotyping". Sheesh.

I don't revel in this because I'm a Clark supporter. It's either going to be Dean or Clark, imo, and I want to win the general election. I can only pray that someone tells Dean to think before he "communicates" with the south again or we are all in trouble.

[Blue_Roses]

64. well said

n/t

[DrFunkenstein]

61. Dean Does Not Do Well With Other People In The Room

He's great at firing up the troops, so long as he is in monologue. He has yet to have better than average media performance (unless you count Jay Leno), lost his temper at least 3 times during the debates - with 9 candidates on the stage, and even lost his temper with George "The Greek Softball" Stephanopoulus! He was toasted on MTP - and it's funny because he called the moderator last night Tim Russert for asking a mildly difficult question.

There is real anger behind Dean - not righteous indignation, but just plain personal anger. Without exagerration, I've seen pictures of him that outright scare me. And he is very thin-skinned. For someone hurling names for months, he sure went off the wall when Medicare was brought up.

Dean benefits from the crowded field, but I guarantee you that his temper and his arrogance will quickly appear if they break the debates into smaller groups.

[seventhson]

65. PATRICE on Tough Crowd defended Dean - Patrice is African-American

and his position said it all: Dean's quotes were taken out of context and Dean was right to try to get the "crackers" to vote for the Democrats against Bush.

It was a beautiful thing.

If Patrice sees through it then I am not at all worried.

[IndianaGreen]

66. I thought some of the Democrats looked like idiots on that debate

Kerry lost New York with his defense of the Red Sox (more about Kerry later).

Having Sharpton accuse anyone of being a racist is as much of a farce as having Hitler accuse Himmler of being mean to Jews.

Edwards came across as the lightweight that he is.

Dean would have done better had he turned to Sharpton and said "Twana Brawley."

Now back to Kerry. Forgetting his remark about being glad New York lost, he was quite good and exhuded warmth when he was talking like a normal person. The moment the topic turned to politics, Kerry switched to his pulpit Senate speech voice that is quite a turn-off.

As far as the entire debate, I agree with Teresa Heinz, it is a waste of time.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[Tinoire]

69. Excellent post Will - & Perception Kills

You've hit it right on. Deans words and perception will hurt him seriously if he doesn't handle this deftly, quickly and with great sensitivity to other people' sfeelings.

As an aside from someone who's studiously avoided the Dean CF threads- let me just say to people that too many White, and even some Black, Dean supporters are misunderstanding this thing.

Black people like me see this a bit differently than many of you do.

What is the point of voting for someone? Is it not to vote for someone who represents you in government?

While Dean's point makes perfect sense- he was too brash and insensitive in the way he stated it and he has not yet handled this appropriately. The scars of slavery, especially in the Southeast are much deeper than most non-Whites can understand because our entire heritage was stolen long ago and still, to this day, there hasn't even been a symbolic reparation such as pumping a few extra dimes in our ghetto schools or too segregated neighborhoods.

My question to you is... just how many Blacks are going to want to stand in line with a bunch of pick-up driving, confederate flag waving red-necks? How many Blacks are going to believe for one minute that Dean can represent both us and the decal-lovers at the same time? We organized an economic boycott of South Carolina over the Confederate flag issue. Not only did Dean break that boycott but he was one of the first, if not the first, to announce he wouldn't honor it. ((Perception Strike 1)). Most, if not all of the other candidates have called for the flag to be removed from state grounds- Dean has not preferring instead to say that this is a local issue, which is the same stance Bush took in 2000 and every Black person knows that as long as this remains a state issue, that flag will fly ((Perception strike 2)). Today he issued a semi apology calling his words "clumsy" but then immediately launched into the defensive, justifying mode thereby discrediting the apology and coming across as too arrogant to apologize even though he understands he really hurt people. ((Perception strike 3)).

Brash, unfortunate and Dean better handle this with sensitivity- not his typical angry brashness. Flippant one-line responses are undertandably out of the question. This thing needs some serious, deft, damage control and fast. I checked the Yahoo boards when the story first broke and sure enough, there were the accusations of "carpet-bagger" & "scallywag".

Can Dean do it? His supporters say yes... I am not so sure but time will tell.


================
Strike ONE
One South Carolina wrinkle is the Confederate Flag issue, a a tricky subject for Democratic candidates in South Carolina. The flag formerly flew atop the Capitol, but now flies at a Confederate monument on the Statehouse grounds. The NAACP has called for economic sanctions on South Carolina "until the Confederate Flag is removed from positions of sovereignty within the State." A South Carolina NAACP fact sheet states, "No hotels, no restaurants, no tourism, period." One can see that such strictures would make it difficult to campaign.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/chrnscar.html

<snip>
Edwards, a critic of the state's decision to fly the Confederate flag on state grounds, has not endorsed all terms of the NAACP's boycott, which protests the same issue. But he has vowed not to sleep in hotels while campaigning in the state. Edwards said he wants to "honor" the principles behind the boycott.

Gallman said Edwards' participation in the one-day event does not violate the boycott.

South Carolina is the first Southern primary in the Democratic presidential nomination process, scheduled for February 4, 2004. African-Americans are expected to make up roughly half of the voters in the primary.

Edwards and the Rev. Al Sharpton are the only Democratic candidates who have said they would honor the boycott in some fashion. The others -- Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri -- have said they will not abide by any terms of the boycott.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/02/07/edwards.campaign/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

71. All points well taken

[Tinoire]

76. I just re-read my post. It's as clumsy as Dean's statement

and very poorly written even though I actually spent longer on that post than I usually do. This whole thing is really bothering me because there was nothing really wrong with the point itself of the comment.

While Dean isn't my candidate, all of a sudden I feel a bit anxious as to how this is going to play out. I think it was Cryer (not sure of the name), head of the SC NAACP, who told Dean it would be ok to break the economic boycott. As I was searching for that story tonight, I found another one mentioning Cryer(?) where he had begged all the candidates, back in Feb, I think to please not discuss the flag issue because it was a political mine-field. My initial impression was that he asked them not to make it an issue because, on top of being an SC politician who never having wanted the boycott, he didn't want too much attention drawn to it and didn't want any controversy to distract from the "more important" issues such as health-care... Did you read those stories? What is your take on it? I honestly have no idea how this is going to play out- I just know that as a Black person from Maryland, as silly as this may sound, I can not see myself uniting politically with the Confederate crowd.

Thank you for that comment... It was extremely difficult for me to write that post tonight for several reasons but one of the major reasons is the subject matter.

For the last 2 days, I've been thinking of a 15 yr old incident at Ft Devens Intel School. There were 2 Southern girls, who had just met for a 3 month NCO course, who totally shocked me because at that time I thought there was little little racism in the military. They were both Staff Sergeants who had been in several years and exposed to Blacks in a class-room and work environment...

Day after day, they would hang out of their window cracking plantation watermelon "the south shall rise again" jokes whenever a girl who later became my friend walked by. She came to talk to me about it and we took it to the First Sergeant who gave those girls hell but I'll never forget their whimpering and crying to him (yes he let them off the hook) about how they had never really been around Blacks and that Black people smelled and were different and wow all sorts of horrible such silliness...

One of them had baby fine blond hair... The night before her graduation, I, who am normally such a calm, nice, forgiving person, replaced her hair conditioner with oderless Nair (lovingly perfumed) and Sonya super-glued the locks to the pick-up trucks- both had those big old confederate decals on the rear cab windows... Silly story I know... but how many such silly stories are going to be remembered? To this day I don't think I could vote next to those 2 girls. There is no way our values are the same. At the same time I know that not everyone is like those two...

Kerry, not my candidate, got this one right... Put that thing in a museum somewhere...

I hope Dean navigates his way out of this and somehow I have a feeling that he will- that others will help him.

Thanks. I feel like saying thanks for letting me rant!

[fabius]

75. I think he's taking the right approach...

...=conducting a holding action with a sorta apology and then going on a flank attack with this expansion of the racism issue.

This is good IMHO. Gets past the petty BS attacks into the real issue. The real issue is racism and an honest discussion of it.

See here.

link

Dean's deflecting the pot shots and boring on in. As Will says, he needs the training.

[Adjoran]

77. excellent and insightful analysis!

This is indeed a mere tiddlywinks match compared to what is in store for whoever wins the nomination.

Dean does need to tighten up his rhetoric, though. Poor choices of words can doom candidacies. George Romney was the moderate alternative to Nixon for the repubs in '68, but he went on a tour of Vietnam, and then said the generals had "brainwashed" him. That one poorly chosen word killed his campaign quicker than being caught in bed with a live boy and a dead girl.

He had been using the reference of "southern guys with gunracks in their pickup trucks" ever since he announced, but at some point changed the reference to "confederate flags" or decals. Dean did use that language at the NAACP - and was applauded for it - but he should have known better. As Edwards said, he has offended a lot of white people in the south who wouldn't dream of displaying the confederate flag by lumping them in there.

Dean not only needs to "handle" the crisis over his remarks, he needs to have a plan to reinvigorate his appeal to southern voters. The Democratic Party has been around for more than 200 years, but has never elected a single President without carrying at least two states from the old confederacy.