What would happen to the DLC if Dean did well in the South?

[Classical_Liberal]

Is that why we are having all the hysterics. Are the party polls perhaps showing strength in the DLC South?

[blm]

1. Boy, do you have it wrong.

Internal DNC polls in the states say Dean drags down the ticket. Dean's fine for congressmen in safe seats, but many are in competitive districts, and the top of the ticket MATTERS. I heard about the SC numbers from the state chair here, a family friend.

btw...Dean is MORE conservative than the DLC. Get your facts straight. Dean is a DEREGULATOR and was given the highest rating for a Democrat by the CATO Institute. So, I guess the DLC would get MORE conservative if, by any chance, Dean won.

The Dems could dump all their old associations that Dean doesn't like - The Brady Campaign, Million Moms, Fire Fighters, etc.....

[Classical_Liberal]

2. If Dean has no hope in the South

why is he being attacked? Me thinks internal polling shows his strategy is actually effective down there. The strategy of appealing to the South on Economic Liberlism and shelving the culture war. This is diametrically apposed to the dlc formula.

[blm]

4. 1984. John Glenn had the numbers to beat Reagan.

Mondale had the numbers to win the primary.

Dean is being attacked because he lives by the attack game himself and started the attack crap back on Jan. 23. He set the uglier tone of this campaign. Some people call it karma.

[Classical_Liberal]

11. No he capitalized on resentment that was already there

against the washington wimps.

[blm]

22. Don't whine when they fight back.

btw...Dean was part of the DLC centrist wing that pulled the party further to the right while he was governor. Thankfully there were lefties pulling the other way, or the party would be even further right if Dean had his way.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. I agree.

Thankfully those pulling leftwards voted against unjust wars and civil rights-taking-away legislation. Whew!


Oh, that's right, they didn't. :-(

[sangh0]

55. "washington wimps"

Pretty funny coming from the same poster who asked, concerning Dean, "why is he being attacked?"

[blm]

9. Economic Liberalism???? Dean is a fiscal conservative. He's a deregulator

You actually BELIEVE his populist rhetoric? Do you know what the CATO Institute is?

[Classical_Liberal]

12. Cato wouldn't approve of fair trade over free trade

or the child health insurance thing.

[blm]

21. Child insurance was passed with Clinton. CHIPS ring a bell?

When Dean took over in Vermont, 91% were already insured. CHIPS bill extended it further.

Dean CHANGED his free trade stance only this year. I have stuff in my refrigerator that's older than Dean's newfound fair trade stance.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. It doesn't matter to me

Dean also appears to have switched his funding sources from the DLC Corporate, to small donations from regular people. I can forgive. Following the money tells me he is going to be more populist.

[blm]

31. HAHAHAHAHAH...the energy donors SEEDED Dean's campaign.

Man...you really BELIEVE what you write? Not that it matters, because YOU don't care that Dean is a deregulator. Many of us liberal Democrats DO.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html


Dean raises money from energy sources

February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.

>>>>>>>
“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition.

A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
>>>>>>>

[Classical_Liberal]

35. So you have to go back to past campaigns

says nothing about this one. It is clear he is moving away from the dlc method.

[blm]

54. Moving to get YOU to believe he's a populist.

But those campaign donations stated are about the current campaign. He tapped his PAST energy donors for the SEED money for this campaign.

[wtmusic]

19. He's never denied he's a fiscal conservative

and please explain how it is antithetical to be populist and a fiscal conservative as well.

[blm]

25. Tell the poster who claims Dean's going to bring "economic liberalism"

to the South. sheesh.

[lastliberalintexas]

Link?

I'd like to see those polls, if they do exist.

[blm]

5. There is no link.

They do not release internal poll info. I am sharing what I've heard from a DNC state chair as I said in my post.

[Classical_Liberal]

7. If I had the link I wouldn't be asking the question.

I know that many factions do internal polling.

[wtmusic]

10. Just a minute

You're saying that Dean is too conservative for the DLC? Lieberman's DLC?

Boy do you have it wrong.

[blm]

34. Then how did CATO Institute rate Dean highest of ANY Dem lawmaker?

.

[Eloriel]

45. Cato is Libertarian

There happen to be a number of things (I was surprised to learn) that I agree with THEM on. Not all, certainly, but some.

So it doesn't bother me at all that they rated Dean high.

I'm also perfectly comfortable with all his economic plans, and I do absolutely see him as a populist. You can't ask your grassroots supporters to advise you on whether or not to accept matching funds, and thus rely solely on them going forward to fund this campaign -- that makes you nothin' BUT a populist, my dear. Ain't no 2 ways about it. Making yourself accountable to the people and only the people is the most populist thing I can imagine.

As someone on the blog put it: "We ARE campaign finance reform."

Eloriel

[blm]

56. You believe that dog and pony show.

The results were predetermined and aimed to stay that way. Like Oral Roberts when he makes his pleas...leaving it up to his followers to just do what needs to be done.....$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[quinnox]

17. you tell them, blm

That is one thing about her, she can be depended on to set things straight based on FACTS.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no name no slogan]

3. Same body, different head

On the issues, Dean's not much different than the DLC. He'll still let the party continue its pandering to the conservative business interests who've done such a bang-up job of phUx0r1ng us over the last 10 years.

[quinnox]

6. The DLC is the boogeyman

I noticed it seems to be a focus of yours, I think you give them too much credit.

[Classical_Liberal]

8. I hope they are.

.

[QC]

26. The DLC is our local Goldstein.

I don't like them much, but neither do I believe that they are the source of all evil in the world, secretly pulling all the strings, like some here seem to.

[Classical_Liberal]

38. Then Dean should win.

Good.

[QC]

40. If he can get more votes than anyone else, he should win.

And if he gets the nomination, I will proudly vote for him.

[knight_of_the_star]

13. Won't happen

He's doing a magnificent job of shooting himself in the foot down below the Mason-Dixon line.

[Classical_Liberal]

14. That remains to be seen.

The only complainers are supporters of other candidates.

[knight_of_the_star]

24. Uh-huh

And when was the last time you told someone who considered themselves to be a Christian to leave their personal values out of an important decision? That comment of his about leaving God, guns, and gays out of their decision on the vote is NOT going to play over very well.

[Classical_Liberal]

27. I was grew up Catholic and was prolife until I was

in my early twenties. I voted democratic because I cared about poor people. Frankly a lot of northeasterners and people from the upper midwest have a social conservative background, yet it is heavily democratic.

[knight_of_the_star]

29. OK

That's cool. How about the millions of Southerners who don't feel the same way that you do? How would you have taken such a statement before you ceased to be Catholic (if I'm inferring correctly from your statement that you aren't)

[Classical_Liberal]

39. That I should look at economic issues

and not culture war issues which are personal.

[KaraokeKarlton]

47. You speak for millions of southerners and how they feel?

Thinking that you do is exactly the same problem Democrats have in getting southern votes. Why not try actually asking southerners what they think, listening to them and including them rather than discounting them and they might just become compelled to vote their financial interests.

[wtmusic]

16. Yeah, that comment about the decal blew it for me

Today it's a passing reference to a decal, tomorrow it's burning crosses :eyes:

[knight_of_the_star]

28. I'm talking about

His other comment and the fact that he is what is called a damnyankee.

[Classical_Liberal]

30. Then why are you posting in this thread?

? It also makes no sense that you're mad about his other comment, because people who use the phase "damn yankee", generally also like the rebel flag. It isn't exactly a non civil war related phrase.

[LiberalTexan]

15. Comment

I think some of you need help realizing that the DLC (http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=86) and the DNC (http://www.democrats.org/) are different entities. I'm not trying to be condescending, but please make note of which group Classical_Liberal is talking about.

I don't think that Dean is more conservative than the DLC. I support Dean though I would never even think twice about contributing to the DLC.

The DLC has not backed Dean from the very beginning. I don't think it has to do with where he falls on the political spectrum (though I believe there is little more conservative in our party than the DLC). I believe he was never supported by them because he didn't pander to them. He didn't go begging for their support and asking for help. He made it to where he is by working hard for himself starting a year ago. To the DLC this is a snub-- an anti-establishment type who doesn't depend on the DLC to make his campaign happen.

[Classical_Liberal]

18. I would go further than that

The DLC power comes from the fact that many dems think them necessary for winning a campaign. Someone who proves them unnecessary invites other dems to ditch them.

[wtmusic]

20. The DLC power comes from the same BIG MONEY

that put Clinton in the White House, and the mistaken belief that Republican-Lite is what this country needs and wants in 2004.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

32. Yes. Howard really needs to step all over his tongue and get that

racist vote. That is the answer.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Your post makes no sense..how rare

[Classical_Liberal]

44. Post 16 of this thread

How come you don't go after him for appealing to racists?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. Is the poster of post #16 running for president?

[Classical_Liberal]

50. No but isn't it strange you are on the same side?

?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. NO it isn't strange. Some people agree with me , some don't.

What are you making it mean?

[Classical_Liberal]

53. You agree that Dean is a damn yankee but are outraged

about the rebel flag. That is like calling someone a communist for supporting the free market.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. Once again, if I didn't say it you somehow take the liberty to make it up

Where have I used "damn Yankee" Please don't tell me what I agree with or disagree with since you obviously have no clue.

[mandyky]

36. The DLC is the democratic version

of cheap labor "conservatives" who want to give all the breaks to corporations and the wealthy. The DLC is no more Democratic than Idiot boy is a conservative. It is about time for the poor and middle class of all races to join together and take this country back from the brink of self destruction.

[leesa]

43. They'll have to go back to their original party...the Republican Party

[QC]

52. Clinton & Gore were Republicans? I had no idea!

[Chomskyite]

49. They'd have to co-op him to survive

And he'd probably let them think they have . . . to work with Congress.