Are you worried the economy will improve?

[ringmastery]

A year is a long time.

Let's say this recovery isn't jobless? Or let's say Bush can manipulate the PR and say that he has created jobs and a manufactured BS recovery.

Are we toast if we keep getting good economic news into next year?

[La_Serpiente]

1. Yes

no doubt about it.

[poskonig]

2. Eight years of Bushit job losses worries me.

*That* would really, really, suck hard.

[david_vincent]

3. Worried? Are you serious??

First, I want people to stop suffering under this reign-by-neglect. I want the economy to improve and I want every unemployed American to find work that's fulfilling and lucrative.
Second, as long as we have people like Warren Rudman appearing on C-SPAN and telling us that it would be smart to go hide in New Zealand for the next twenty years while the American economy implodes, I don't think this is a realistic possibility.

[kentuck]

39. I hope and pray the good economy is for real and Bush isn't lying...

As if there is no other issue to run against this lying, war-mongering, deficit loading, incompetent, arrogant POS!

[mikehiggins]

4. No

Not unless he finds a way to bring back all the jobs that have gone to India and China. However, I suspect Bush may be undone by Big Red over this currency issue that pops up in the media from time to time.

If China disrupts things the ripples will still be stirring up the pond well into the next election.

And I don't beleive there is a chance in the world of employment improving in any field except the one where you have to know how to say "want fries with that?"

[ugarte]

5. As Bush would say, this is a trick question

The fact is, America has two economies: one for capital and one for labor. If you've got money to invest, the economy is picking up because companies have improved their bottom line by cutting expenses/jobs and sending jobs overseas.

But if all you have to offer is your labor, you are screwed. The question for next year's election is whether the stock market investors will outvote the unemployed and sub-employed.

I wish I knew the answer.

[mhr]

6. Are You On Drugs? Been Unemployed For 39 Months Now!

I have now mailed 1,427 resumes. My resume is posted at 105 job boards.

I have two college degrees, am a commercial pilot, and served honorably as a military officer.

I have heard not one peep of interest in me, my background, or my experience from any employer in years.

There is no sign that this is going to change anytime soon.

[ringmastery]

10. What field are you looking in?

Are you open to careers outside of your field?

Are you geographically mobile?

Are you willing to take a significant pay cut to get back to work?

How old are you? Age discrimination does/can happen, though damn hard to prove.

Have you tried streamlining your resume? You may be overqualified and employers may be intimidated by your education/experience/degrees.

There are jobs out there. Whether the jobs are desirable to you is of course open to debate.

There's no reason you couldn't get hired into something like retail, far as I can see.

[ugarte]

13. Yeah, selling oranges on street corners is a job, too

With two college degrees and a pilot's license maybe he could set up a little shoeshine operation, and the Bushites could count him as a success story.

[ringmastery]

17. Life isn't fair

Life sucks.

You can complain about it on DU all day or accept that life sucks and you either adapt to the changing times or get swept away by them...

Selling oranges on the street while making a living to put food on the table and pay the rent while you keep looking for a job is highly desirable to wasting away or becoming homeless.

[Mountainman]

22. Damn how much do those oranges cost?

"Selling oranges on the street while making a living to put food on the table and pay the rent"

Just how many oranges would that be and where would a person get the money to buy the oranges to sell in the first place?

Maybe a person could declare him/herself an economiclly depressed area and the repups would give out a loan to buy oranges.

And of course you would need refrigeration and a place to sell them, and then you would have to report your sales to the government for tax purposes and then there is the insurance costs and all.

[Mountainman]

16. You are obviously employed.

I am also unemployed but only for 2 months so far.

I here from people like you also. "There are jobs if you are willing to take them." Well it is not a matter of whether I will take them it is a matter of will they be offered to me. The answer is no.

You would have to manufacture a complete false identity with people willing to fake references etc. to do what you suggest.

I once got a job as a laborer years ago because a friend recomended me but had I applied directly for that laborer job I would never have gotten it.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. I am unemployed and could take a minimum wage job tomorrow...

...but does it make a lot of sense for me to give up my unemployment insurance and prime job seeking time to take a job will pay less a week after taxes than my unemployment insurance?

That would be foolhardy.

[ringmastery]

21. of course

but what about when unemployment runs out and you've been out of work 1 year? 2 years?

Would you take the minimum wage job then? The point is there comes a time when you have to come to terms with the fact that your prior life, career, is all gone, and you will have to do something completely different.

[Liberal Veteran]

27. And who cares if I end up defaulting on my student loans that paid ....

...for the training I needed for my last career.

Quit being such a damn apologist for the crappy ass fucktard of a president we have.

My job got outsourced to India. To people who are making a fraction of what I made. And here is the administrations response to that:

"Sure. Listen, I fully understand what you're saying. In other words, as technology races through the economy, a lot of times worker skills don't keep up with technological change. And that's a significant issue that we've got to address in the country."

In other words despite the fact that everyone at my site was totally up to date on current skills needed to do the job and most had current certifications to prove and despite the fact that the job really was the same one we had been doing for the last 5 years and it had not significantly changed, I am just supposed to sit back and like it when the people are supposed to represent me not only poo-poo the fact that our jobs are being sent overseas for slave wages, but that they further insult the injury by claiming that we didn't keep our skill sets up to date enough to maintain these jobs in the states when I haven't even begun to pay off my student loans that got me to the bare minimum I needed plus a lot of my own time it took to get several certifications to maintain?

[Mountainman]

24. I am in the same boat

I almost have a temp to perm job. It is between another person and me. If I took a minimum wage job I could not be available for the interviews to get the temp to perm job.

[mhr]

23. I Am Open To Everything Except Selling Myself Short!

I see no reason to work for Wal-Mart as you suggest.

I am 46 and age discrimination is a problem.

My skills are technical and analytical.

These skills are not in high demand and are not needed to be a Wal-Mart greeter.

[ringmastery]

26. you don't have to be a wal-mart greeter

You could try applying for retail management jobs or some retail management training program. Running a wal-mart type retail store can make you well into the six figures and does require analytical skills. Retail Managers in smaller outlets can make $50k.

[Mountainman]

28. I have been unemployed a number of times

I am an accountant. I have worked as a laborer looking for unexploded ordinance for $8/hr during one of my down periods.

Hopefully I will get another accounting job soon. I moved to an area where there are few people with my level of experience but with the economy the way it is there are fewer job openings also.

I will pray for you and hope things get better for you.

[Liberal Veteran]

29. And to be honest, you are too damned smart and they won't hire you.

I know a few desperate people who tried out for some of these low skill, low wage jobs and they were told flat out they were overqualified and would not hire them. They know that people who have had a halfway decent paying job under good conditions is not only going to bail on them at the first opportunity that presents itself, they also know they can't get away with the shit they get away with like working people overtime off the clock and other crap.

[camero]

43. That is very true

In order for me to get a low skill job, I actually have to act dumber than I really am. Alot of these managers in retail(or anywhere pretty much) are on power trips. And they sure don't want people around them that are smarter than they are.

[mhr]

30. I Guess You Missed This Gem Earlier This Week, Layoffs Surge 125%

A short snippet from CBS news indicates that US job losses continue.

Despite the GDP growth hype last week, it is clear to those unemployed
that the US economy is still faltering.

------
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/pulseone.asp?dateid=37929.4167939815-809414361&siteID=mktw&scid=0&doctype=806&

10:00am 11/04/03

U.S. October layoffs surge 125%, Challenger says By Rex Nutting
WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- Layoff announcements from U.S. companies more
than doubled in October to 171,874, the highest in a year, according to
the monthly tally released Tuesday by outplacement firm Challenger Gray
& Christmas. October is typically the largest month for layoff notices,
as companies slash costs at the end of the fiscal year. The Challenger
survey is not adjusted for seasonal factors. Layoff announcements had
fallen for three months in a row before October's 125 percent increase.
In October, the auto industry sacked 28,363 workers, followed by 21,169
in the retail sector. Telecommunications companies cut 21,030. So far in
2003, 1.04 million job reductions have been announced.

[mhr]

33. The Resume Is A Lean, Mean Two Pages

Very Succinct and compact. I fret over it constantly. I must have close to a hundred versions in every flavor imaginable, depending on what I am applying for.

What you don't seem to understand is that there are a minimum of three people applying for EVERY open position.

This data point comes directly from the Bureau of Labor.

Given the current political, climate you can pretty much bet that this number is understated.

For a good view of how badly the economy is doing on jobs see the following website: www.jobwatch.org .

[Timefortruth]

59. This is NOT a panacea

and I don’t intend for it to sound like one, just an idea for a small step that could help. Have you volunteered in areas similar to your former career? Some volunteer spots put you out around professionals which may offer good networking possibilities. I’ve been trying it lately, it hasn’t led to anything but I feel like I’m making some progress at least. I’m not unemployed, just ready to reenter the work force at a very bad time.

[Selwynn]

38. People aren't unemployed because they're lazy or finnicky

The high unemployment rate isn't because people are too fickle or two lazy to get a job - and anyone who says that is either ridiculously out of touch, an idiot, or a republican (or all of the above I suppose)

[NicoleM]

48. "There are jobs out there."

Have you actually been unemployed in this economy? Because it's really easy to say that if you haven't been there.

[leftyandproud]

12. no offense..

but its time for you to start seeking another career. If the market is sour for your skills, try something else...even entry level.
You won't get a dream job right away, but you shouldn't expect to. Pick up the sundar paper and a few of those employment magazines at your local grocery...These are people BEGGING for work. I'm sure you can find a $10/hour job without much trouble...and that may open up other opportunities for you once you build up seniority at the company.

It's certainly better than sitting on your ass reading DU all day (not that it's the worst thing you could do...)

[Mountainman]

19. no offense

But you can say that a thousand times easier than you can do it.

[mhr]

25. Wrong Once Again, Help Wanted advertising Is At An All Time Low

You really need to keep up with what is happening on the street.

Maybe you should get out more.

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. Absolutely. Just as much as I worry about getting younger

The economy is terrific if you happen to be heavily invested in certain industries, and for you, it will continue to improve.

For everybody else, in time you will cease to think of it as an economy, and for some, that will help a lot.

[frank frankly]

8. the jobs are flooding out of the US and that won't change

so all the other numbers are MOOT.

this is not a recovery.

[Djinn]

9. us too

I was convinced that at our own last federal election we'd be throwing out the corporate sycophants we have in govt - unfortunately our Prime Miniature (not a typo btw) decided a bit of a political bogeyman was needed and viola he gets a couple of hundred desperate refugees floating off our northern coast as a pawn to claim we were under "invasion" by these "hoardes" of refugees (the fact that they were muslims had nothing to do with it of course and had the PM realised that at any given time we have some 60,000 visa overstayers of BRITISH origin then he would have organised for them all to be put in camps in the desert too just coincidence really)

then the WTC towers were attacked and all of a sudden the man about to loose became the record setting winner.

I am positive that just prior to elections these lying miserable scumbags will come up with yet another convenient lie (God I'd be nervous if I lived in Syria or Iran) to make themselves look like they're "tough on security" because then it doesn't seem to matter that they're weak on almost everything else.

The economy doesn't need to pick up the people who watch Faux just need to think it has.

[janx]

11. Worried? Are you kidding? I know too many people who have

lost homes and who are unemployed.

I want the economy to improve. Would I want these people to suffer more because of some blind political partisanship? Good grief, who would?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mikimouse]

15. I am only concerned that *'s corporate cronies

will pull a fast one on all of us. Imagine that about 6 months from now, the corporations start hiring massive numbers of workers, cutting the legs out from onder most of our arguments. * is elected, 2 months later, the massive post-election layoffs and downsizing begin again. The die is cast and we are in the hole for anotehr four depressing years. Could happen.

[Melsky]

18. We need jobs

I think Iraq will sink bush's boat, but if we don't stop hemorrhaging
jobs, we are screwed.

[FDRrocks]

31. i hope it does..

christ!

[kayleybeth]

32. Of course not I'm not worried

If the economy improves, that is a good thing. I want it to improve for the sake of the 9 million unemployed who are losing everything they have. Bush has plenty of other vulnerabilities that we can exploit. That said, I don't think the economy is really improving, at least not on the level that the RW spinmeisters are asserting. Here is a great fact sheet on the so called "economic recovery". We should all familiarize ourselves with these points so we can counter the spin from the right.

http://www.centerforamericanprogress.org/site/lookup.asp?cid={E9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E06E03}&bin_id={8B9226FF-C3BF-44A0-8B3C-F37A28548E18}

If the link doesn't work, just go to http://www.centerforamericanprogress.org and click on the "Talking Points" link at the left of the page.

[MrPrax]

34. Why worry ?

If the GOP can float the world's economy, then fine? wait ten minutes and the newly elected democrats will do the same trick...

It ain't the economy, stupid is one of the best comebacks of all time!

It's repression, dumbass

[Virginian]

35. I am afraid of an artificial bump in the economy

His wealthy friends proping up the stock market to make it look like the economy is booming and then after the election, pulling out causing the economy to plummet.

[Selwynn]

36. Yeah, let's hope for more lives to be screwed longer for political reasons

I'm sorry, but I want the economy to improve for the sake of real people suffering out there. I'm sorry if that makes winning an election or some other political gain more difficult.

[comsymp]

41. And while we're at it

let's hope for a continued rise in the rate of violent crime, too!
:eyes:

[foo_bar]

37. I'm sick of this game

Are we toast if we keep getting good economic news into next year?

Who's we? Trustafarians hoping for high interest rates? Bear market strategists? Chicken Littles with running arguments against their dads?

Unless you're a paid (or very dedicated) campaigner, it's the stuff in between these red team-blue team superbowls that matter.

[MI Cherie]

40. It can only be considered improving ...

... when ALL the jobs lost in the last three years are ALL regained.

Wait a minute! Actually, that is only breaking even.

Real improvement would mean no one being under-employed or working for less than they were three years ago.

Oops, that's kind of breaking even, too.

True improvement would have to be EVERYONE being "better off than we were three years ago"!

[KayLaw]

42. The OP makes an interesting point

Not in the original post, but when ponders whether many Americans can accept the idea that the prosperity party is over. I remember the article about the formerly well-to-do families seeking aid at charities asking for help paying huge mortgages for McMansions, fancy cars, cable tv, private schools, country club dues, etc. - people in denial about their position in life.

How many people are going to have to accept the fact their three-figure jobs are gone and to compete they're going to have to work for a fraction of that and move into modest houses or trailers? And if this goes for a large number of us, won't it eventually lead to a new reality for most all of us? I just wonder...

[mrgorth]

44. Yes

I believe it's possible for the numbers to be cooked for the next year to make it look like the economy is improving and yes this scares me. We have to beat Bush.

[puppeteer]

45. If you're disappointed if in fact it does improve....

...then bloody shame on you.

I'll be the first person in line to shake the hand and kiss the feet of whoever manages to beat BushCo. in the next election and take the country back, but as a local politician myself, I have one absolute principle:

Politics should NEVER come before doing what's absolutely right for the general public.

In other words, if by some miracle BushCo. manages to actually do some good to the economy (though i'll admit there's better chance of me hitting the Powerball for 50 mil), kudos to them. If they do actually improve it, then maybe there is something to supply-side. (and before the rants start, I personally think supply-side is full of crap, but I keep my mind square open.)

I will say, I am extremely happy to see that the left is starting to fight back, s'long as we keep our eyes on the mission of improving society and doing what is genuinely right.

[mumon]

46. First there's Iraq....

Then, there's the "other news."

Mutual funds might just be leading the markets into a BIG, BIG slide.

And there's the looming "capital crunch."

Bush's tax cuts' effect on the economy has all the permanence of a crack hit.

The economy has to go into overdrive to get anywhere NEAR a positive number of jobs for this clown.

Oh, and do you have any more money in your pocket than 4 years ago?

Are you better off today?

Safer today?

Freer today?

Bush is vulnerable- don't believe the hype.

[HFishbine]

47. The New Bugaboo

Worried? No. Isn't that one of the reasons we want a new president. But if you mean worried in the sense that it will take an issue off the table for Bush, no, I'm not worried about that either.

The reason is because if Bush's "recovery" takes hold it will be done at great expense -- huge defict spending. Deficit spending has its consequences, and consumers won't like it.

As the government competes with private investment to borrow for its expenditures, it must offer more and more enticements, ie higher yeilds.

By this time, the new bugaboo will be inflation.

[John_H]

49. No, I worry that freepers will mutate the American gene pool so severely

that we'll all wind up with hair similar to Ralph Reed and Tom Delay.

[Brian Sweat]

50. No, I'm worried it will get worse.

I hope it will get better, so that I don't have to constantly worry that I will lose my job and not be able to find another one.

[Q]

51. Bush* is NOT going to run on the economy...

...it should be clear by now that he'll campaign on fear and the 'war' on terrorism.

[ProfessorGAC]

52. Don't Worry

It's not going to suddenly improve. The Q3 results are a canard. The lion's share (about 82%) of the change from the average of the prior 10 quarters and 3Q03 was caused by two extrinsic factors upon which fiscal policy had no leverage.

I predict that as long as deficit spending continues to increase at the current levels, in a non-emergent environment, the compressive effects on the economy will outweigh any short term spending gains.

Remember, consumer spending has NOT increased in 9 quarters. The gov't is spending gobs of money on backfilling the munitions inventory from the thousands used in Iraq. Several VERY large U.S. corporations ended the fiscal year on June 30, so spent the prior 6 months shedding inventory to enhance the cash position on their balance sheets (which means they spent Q3 backfilling inventory, thus the increase in wholesale dollars). So, the sudden uptick of the macroeconomy was NOT fueled by consumer spending which is ordinarily between 63 - 66% of GDP.

Big firms can't backfill inventory forever, and the gov't can't spend money it doesn't have forever. This is one anomalous data point and does not indicate a recovery, despite the hyperventilating we've seen in the media.
The Professor

[RandomUser]

53. This is the type of Thread that will be linked to give DU a bad name

This is insane. I'm an American first and a Democrat second. Do I want Bush to win reelection? No. But I sure as hell want things to improve in Iraq and the economy to improve. I'm not wishing for more job losses and more deaths just so we can oust Bush.

I'm not a fan of the scorched earth tactic.

And I wouldn't be surprised if this thread is linked and cited by the media as an example of liberal extremists against America. I know you probably didn't mean it this way, and I respect your sentiments. But this is flamebait, selfishly partisan, bad for DU, and easily spun by right wing pundits.

[LittleApple81]

58. I agree totally. When we see one of these we know where it is going n/t

[Cocoa]

61. yes, just like the ones about the troops

intended to make liberals look like they're rooting for a bad economy and high casualties in Iraq.

[Timefortruth]

54. What worries me is that the public will be bamboozled

into thinking astronomical debts don’t mortgage our children’s future. That joblessness is irrelevant to recovery. That they will believe that exploiting the environment for short term economic gains is all that matters. Yes, I am very worried.

[bushisanidiot]

55. Repukes Want To Believe That Dems Want The Economy To Stay Bad

because they know that's what THEY would be doing if a democratic president were in the white house right now and the economy was this bad.

Repukes don't realize that we dems don't hate america as much as they do. We actually want things to get better for all of us no matter who is in the white house. Repukes can't understand that way of thinking..

[ProfessorGAC]

56. Well, I Don't WANT It To Stay Bad. I'm Just Predicting It Will Be

I see nothing in my MVA's that indicates that the turnaround trumpeted by the media is real. There isn't one indicator that appears to have changed by a sufficient degree to actually shift the surface points in the model for 1 year out.

So, i'm not rooting against recovery. I'm scientifically predicting it's not getting better yet.
The Professor

[adriennel]

57. fun with numbers

we need to make sure that the "good economic news" is true. I can guarantee throughout next year, we will hear only good economic news from this administration. Even if the numbers don't add up. This administration has been manipulating data on the Dept of Labor web site for some time now. They've been telling us for three years the economy is improving and jobs will be created but it's simply not true.
It seems Bar didn't teach her son the mantra that "just because you say it's true, doesn't mean it's true!" Probably because she doesn't understand it herself.

[Bandit]

60. I doubt their figures

I am a Food Service Wholesaler in Alaska and I have lost five major accounts this year due to them going out of business. The latest is BP Williams which is like a 7-11 chain thru-out Alaska. It will close it's doors on the 21st of November. K-Mart was a huge hit for me when they shut down earlier this year plus three other smaller general stores in small fishing communities. They are smaller stores for the city I live in but for the communities they are in it is huge. The economy is NOT doing better here.

[Snellius]

62. It's not the economy, stupid

Why would a good economy help Bush? Why does a bad economy help the Democrats? Why is it always "It's the economy, stupid"? Carville and From and the DNC boys are always rechanting this mantra. Look what happened during the midterms. It was a disasterous strategy not to criticize Bush on foreign policy and relegate ourselves only to bread and butter mommy issues. If anything, whining about the economy only deflected attention from the real issue, the threat of terrorism and the war in Iraq. That's what Bush is fixated on. That's what 2004 will be about.