Iraqis anally raped Lynch during her captivity, book reveals

[dutchdemocrat]

Here we go...

==================

Iraqis raped Lynch during her captivity, book reveals
BY PAUL D. COLFORD AND CORKY SIEMASZKO

New York Daily News

NEW YORK - (KRT) - Jessica Lynch was brutally raped by her Iraqi captors.

That is the shocking revelation in "I Am a Soldier, Too," the much-anticipated authorized biography of the former POW. A copy of the book was obtained by The New York Daily News on Wednesday.

Best selling author Rick Bragg tells Lynch's story for her, often using her own words. Thankfully, she has no memory of the rape.

"Jessi lost three hours," Bragg wrote. "She lost them in the snapping bones, in the crash of the Humvee, in the torment her enemies inflicted on her after she was pulled from it."

The scars on Lynch's battered body and the medical records indicate she was anally raped, and "fill in the blanks of what Jessi lived through on the morning of March 23, 2003," Bragg wrote.

"The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead."

The 207-page saga published by Knopf hits bookstores Tuesday, which is Veterans Day.

SNIP

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/7193213.htm

[La_Serpiente]

1. aW geez

[Must_B_Free]

3. How do they kno0w it wasn't aliens

they're always probing peoples butts

[Boom_cha]

2. Must have been the same Iraqi soldiers

that ripped the babies from their incubators during the Kuwait invasion.

[gandalf]

18. Exactly!

That is what I thought.
Good that this country is finally liberated.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

52. Was this book written by Hill & Knowlton, who wrote the incubator story?

Here's an interesting article. Don't know anything about the source, but I remember when the propaganda by Hill & Knowlton came out. I think this is the same firm that the anti-Chavez people have hired to run ops in the US.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1992/50/50p24.htm

[gbwarming]

63. No. They represent the Mohammed the laywer that she wouldn't meet. nt

[radwriter0555]

83. Hmmm, anal sex is forbidden to muslims it seems.... guess the writer

didn't look into that.

http://groups.msn.com/islam4all/sexinislam.msnw

5. There are ahadith that forbid anal intercourse and scholars generally agree that it is not permissible. However, in his tafsir (commentary) Tabaari (3d century A.H.) while forbidding sodomy, says that earlier authorities were divided on the question.

Granted, it's not cut and dried, but it appears to be discouraged.

I believe the writer is taken with the morbid details of the kobe bryant scandal and capitalizing on that... heretofore in the media it simply wasn't acceptable to mention anal sex. But perhaps seeing how everyone is all a-twitter over the KB case, the writer sought to profit from the hieghtened morbidity.

[LiberalTradition]

88. I don't think that really matters.

Try this link http://www.iht.com/articles/114798.html

I don't think being Muslim has anything to do with it one way or another.

[radwriter0555]

94. I believe it does. Especially since the girls mentioned in the article

were clearly of western influence, as were the boys, as was not the case, one can assume, for the alleged perpetrators in Iraq.

I stand by my position that the whole story is totally and completely bogus.

[foo_bar]

100. self-serving delusion of the year

In other news, the ten commandments forbid Christians and Jews from coveting.

[QC]

135. It's pretty amazing, isn't it? I had to rub my eyes and read it again.

Conservatives also do not believe in anal sex, but every time the police raid the local rest stop they catch lots of conservative pillars of the community out there banging away like there's no tomorrow.

Baptists don't believe in divorce, but they have the highest divorce rate of any Christian sect in the country.

[Exultant Democracy]

4. come on now

this doesn't pass the smell test.

[dutchdemocrat]

10. I don't 'get' it

What do you mean, the "Smell Test"?

DU posting rules?

[gottaB]

12. I think he means the story stinks

It's like journalist slang. You mostly hear it as an admonishment against journalists who publish total fabrications, you know, bullshit. It's kind of a euphemism.

[dutchdemocrat]

15. Thanks

I am a journalist, albeit - not an American not. I have not heard that slang before.

Cheers.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[incapsulated]

5. Medical records

"The scars on Lynch's battered body and the medical records indicate she was anally raped, and "fill in the blanks of what Jessi lived through on the morning of March 23, 2003," Bragg wrote."

They don't say whether these where Iraqi or US medical records. How long after the initial attack was it before US medical personel looked at her?

This story gets more bizarre with each retelling.

I'm pissed that this book is coming out on my birthday, too (Nov. 11, veterans day). :(

[dreissig]

6. I Don't Like This Headline

This headline is gross.

[dutchdemocrat]

9. Sorry if it offends you - perhaps add anally to the original headline

Sorry if it offends you - perhaps adding 'anally' to the original headline was rather provacative and tabloid-ish of me.

But you know what? That was the idea. To show you what kind of gross, vile tactics and exploitative measures 'they' will use to twist this story into their own 'Wag the Dog'.

Tell me, do you really think that if a bunch of Iraqi soldiers 'anally' raped her, they would bring to the hospital afterwards to have her medically treated? No, I think not. They would have put a gun to her head and finished her off.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

56. Based on the author's credibility, how much you want to bet the...

...entire story is a sham?

From the article:

"Bragg, a former New York Times reporter who quit after admitting he had a legman do some of his reporting...".

Get the picture?

[cosmicdot]

101. he quit, or was he fired?

so, this is the same dude

hmmmmm

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluestateguy]

14. That's not funny

And it's in very bad taste. Rape is not funny and it has nothing to do with being pretty.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. SAD

NT

[thebigidea]

8. strategically timed release to counter all the cries of "propaganda"

if they knew this before, they would've been shouting it from the heavens for increased propaganda value - "oh, such horrible monsters! oh what a just war we fight. two minutes hate, commence!"

The whole story has a thick layer of slime on it. That and the distant sound of sick cash registers.

[bluestateguy]

13. Well then it should be in the movie, right?

We wouldn't want to skimp on accuracy now would we? The Republican National Committee would not approve.

[4323Lopez]

16. ughh, I just this post title name would just disappear...

Its hard to scroll past it, its so graffic.

[0rganism]

19. bush brothers anally raped American democracy in 2000, book reveals

Which book? Try "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy", by Greg Palast.

Betcha can't wait to see the movie, eh?

[izzie]

20. Well the other story was not true so is this on to fill in for that?

Really this sounds so made up. I am sorry.We are back to "Germans eat babies'and I know things like this happen, it is just odd it comes out after the other story is found to be a put on.

[loudnclear]

21. Bush anally raped us all...

Now what?!

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. As a woman

I find this horrific, if true. As a woman, I never question a woman who says she was raped, never. BUT, Jessica Lynch has no memory of this? Would Iraqis rape a filthy, dirty infidel? Don't Muslim's find infidels disgusting? I don't know about this. Something doesn't sound right....the loss of memory at THAT specific time, is suspect. It smells funny to me also. JMCPO

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. The American Female Pilot Shot Down Over Iraq In Gulf War 1

was raped too....

I would think even the most perfunctory of exams could determine if it's true or not....


If it's true some of the comments on this board are truly sad...


Jessica Lynch was a poor girl from West Virginia who joined the military to get a college education....


Hate Bush, Hate PNAC, Hate the cabal that got us into our mess but leave Jessica Lynch alone.....

[leftynyc]

40. I totally agree

I think it's pretty sad that some people on this board take their digust of * and his cronys out on this woman. She was trying to make a better future for herself and served her country. I think giving her the Bronze Star was inappropriate but there is no doubt she went through something pretty terrible. While I think * and Co. are using her for propoganda, if this did happen, my heart goes out to her.

[betio]

81. You folks need to hold your tongues until the facts are revealed...

your immediate assumption that it is bogus and then the flood of disgusting attempts at humor are truly nauseating.

[radwriter0555]

84. oh PLEASE! Consider the SOURCE of this string of lies, propaganda and BULL

shit!

Give me ONE SINGLE REASON why anyone in the bush regime has one speck of an amoebic iota of credibility? This entire regime is built on lies.

[metisnation]

150. NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN COUNTRY

this would have never happened if we avoided the war...we did not even negotiate. Bush is a tyrant!

[Classical_Liberal]

127. Nobody is saying anything about Jessie Lynch

and you know it.

[leesa]

43. Bullshit. She is participating in this scam.

The stories surrounding her hospitalization and the attempts to return her to the US do not support any of this. Don't you remember how many times they have put non-existant bullet wounds, knife wounds and now rape wounds on her. Her Iraqi physician said her only injuries were from the vehicle accident. This is total BS and she is participating in it. The only way I could possibly have any respect was if they had threatened her with harm if she did not remain silent. Remeber that amnesia was not a problem until AFTER the lies the US military told were uncovered.

[Blue_Chill]

48. Did Rove ask her if he could use her story?

I think not.

This girl has done nothig wrong. She was in a horrible accident, she was anally raped, had to be pulled out of Iraq, and now arrives to find herself in the middle of a poltiical tug of war.

She is not at fault for any of this and shouldn't be treated this way. It's disgusting.

[Terwilliger]

57. oh?

and how do you know she was anally raped?

In fact, other than the fact that she's a young white girl from West Virginia, what do you know about her at all?

[Blue_Chill]

67. So then we should assume the worst? Should we treat all victims this way?

That's insane.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. There you go again! None of us know, based on the demonstrated...

...lack of veracity on the part of Bragg, whether Lynch is a victim or not.

Additionally, based on the track record of the numerous versions of the Lynch story to date, why shouldn't anyone in their right mind be extremely skeptical of this version?

IMHO, the true test of insanity is trusting anything that you read or hear from the mainstream media.

[Terwilliger]

87. I find your attitude incomprehensible

who said anything about making that the conclusion of every rape case?

maybe you should examine your feelings on the issue

OnEdit: self-governing my hyperbole

[Classical_Liberal]

129. They have already fabricated the rescue

After that anyone who would automatically believe this is insane.

[Classical_Liberal]

147. It's insane to believe this after the administration

has already lied about this story. No maybe it is just a freeper.

[Classical_Liberal]

126. You don't get it.

Jessie isn't making the claim and has no memory of it. This is just more psyops. Lies.

[youngred]

145. my friend is currently being accused of rape

by a young woman (15) who is still a virgin when he was in a room with 3 witnesses to back up his story, but he still faces charges.

There should be no questioning of rape charges, but sometimes people do lie.

[absyntheNsugar]

152. Yes I agree

Personally - and I have no data to support this but personally - I think she wasn't raped, and she is using the 'lost time' so that she doesn't have the lying on her conscience. And that I totally understand, being that several of her 'liberators' have already ended up dead, she doesn't want to die or get 'suicided', nor does she want the lying on her conscience. Poor girl - I feel for her probably more than any other Bush victim.

[thebigidea]

23. I hereby predict the next tabloid/FOX headline

that Iraqi doctor with a competing book/movie deal is accused of being the rapist, and the reason why she wouldn't meet with him. The media have a propaganda orgy that lasts a year, all the way through the election.

Well, competing made4tv movies are bad enough.

[CaptainMidnight]

24. You've ALL got it ALL WRONG!

Not only was she anally raped...

According to Top Secret Pentagon satellite surveillance photos, she was anally raped while IN AN INCUBATOR! An incubator that was MASSING ALONG THE SAUDI/IRAQI BORDER, ready to invade Saudi Arabia along with over 100,000 other incubators...

Captain Mike

[sistersofmercy]

58. Brought to you by the people who gave us the Willie Horton ads.

88 election.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bicentennial_baby]

27. Indeed

Whether or not this story is true, rape jokes ain't funny. :puke:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. You Are On The Side Of The Angels On This One...

NT

[sistersofmercy]

65. Go google Willie Horton and see what sick racist crap Papa Bush

used during the 88 election. BFEE uses rape as propoganda and you're buying it just like the want you to.

[Kamika]

30. I dont think they're saying the rape doesn't mean anything

I think It's more of a thing that we're sceptical if its really true.

[jonnyblitz]

39. yes

thank you. :hi:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. Hey, pal...maybe you ought to do a little research on Bragg,...

...the author of this crap. Maybe you would find out why he was fired from a major newspaper.

[Military Brat]

104. Bragg is an unmitigated liar

Inflammatory story intended to ratchet up sales and let's go kill more Iraqis for Jessica's honor.

Bragg is a LIAR. His reputation is mud. He thought up the worst thing possible. Shoshona Johnson was held for a long, long time, and she was not sexually assaulted. Is Bragg throwing in this salacious story because Jessica is a white Christian female?

I smell a skunk, and it's after your money.

[QC]

113. Smearing Bragg is easier than dealing with facts, I suppose.

Bragg was accused of failing to give stringers credit for their work. He did not, like Jayson Blair and Steven Glass, manufacture stories from whole cloth.

The stringer issue is complicated, because the NYT and other major newspapers have always made extensive use of stringers and have seldom or never given them bylines. In fact, for most of its history, the Times did not give *anyone* a byline.

When there was a devastating tornado in my town a few years ago, the Times called the local paper, which they own, and asked them to send a reporter out to interview people, describe the damage, etc. When the story came out in the Times the following day, it did not attribute the story to the stringer who researched it. This is standard practice for major newspapers, particularly those with a stable of celebrity reporters, like the Times.

Bragg was one of those rarest people in the media elite--someone who grew up poor and was willing to report on the lives of the poor with a bit of sympathy, and what is more, some genuine understanding. In a profession increasingly dominated by the affluent and subservient to their interests, we need voices like Bragg's.

Given the "ooohhh, proles are icky" sentiment running rampant at DU lately, I expect that many will not see that as a loss. But when we wonder why the news is so 100% gung ho corporate, we have to admit that at least in part it is so because those who produce the news have the very same class interests as the corporate elite.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

121. In Bragg's case, why do you suppose the use of the stringers...

...became an issue? Was it because Bragg took credit for the work of his stringers by travelling to the story-site just in time to claim the dateline? If I took credit for the work of others I would rightfully be called a liar.

Here are a few articles written during and after Bragg's problem with the Times:

"Rick Bragg's 'Dateline Toe-Touch'"
A New York Times writer gets gets caught cutting corners.
<http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2083539/>

Journalists face more scrutiny
<http://www.pittnews.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/09/17/3f67e4b187f5f>

May 27, 2003
Times update
<http://www.anagelikethis.com/archives/week_2003_05_25.html>

[QC]

128. Frankly, there's much about the practices of big newspapers

that is sleazy, and I would count using unattributed stringers, and doing anything to get the date-line, in that category.

Has Bragg damaged his own credibility? Certainly. Does it follow that he is a lying sumbitch who can be denounced out of hand without any attention to facts or circumstances? No.

I frankly do not know what to believe about the Lynch story, and given how much we have been jerked around, I am suspicious. But I think that reducing the argument to "Rick Bragg is involved, therefore it cannot possibly be true" is simplistic.

As for the slipshod standards of the newspaper scene, let me share with you an experience of mine. I do some fact-checking for a health magazine, and a few months ago was sent a story written by a newspaper reporter who won a recent Pulitzer. Ordinarily my job just involves verifying quotes and the like, but this piece would not have passed muster in a freshman comp class. Among other things, the author, who got $5,000 for a 2500 word piece, "quoted" a man who had been dead for three years, relayed a bunch of information that has been flatly contradicted by recent (and well publicized) research, and treated corporate press releases as gospel. I had to put 35 hours into that piece, including re-researching and rewriting large parts of it, to make it publishable.

The experience made me even more skeptical of newspapers, which generally do not have fact-checkers.

As for Bragg, if you have not read All Over But the Shoutin and Ava's Man, I strongly recommend them. Extremely powerful books about the lives of the poor.

[sistersofmercy]

64. Bush 88 campaign used the Willie Horton incident. Prior to GW I

we heard numerous reports of Kuwaiti women being raped in front of their children. When that didn't do the trick we had incubator babies. That's right it's shameful to question the victim and the BFEE knows it. How many stories prior to this war did we hear about Saddam and his sons being rapists? How about the Iraqi soldiers and police who rape-tortured Iraqi dissent women? No the BFEE are the ones with no shame and will use the issue of rape to further their political gain. Besides if Lynch was raped, a victim, can't question the victim about the rest of the story, now can you?

[foo_bar]

106. I'm glad there's at least one liberal here

[Classical_Liberal]

131. Lies are lies and Jessie doesn't even remember

The pentagon already has lied like hell about her rescue. Why should we believe this?

[youngred]

146. agreed

but there is a difference in something smelling very rankly about this story and that is what most here are saying.

Rape is no joke, but the republican lies are.

[Kamika]

29. To be fair..

If Jessica has approved of this I guess we cant really say it's not true and Yes it's horrible.. and nomatter howmuch we think she's a pawn of the Bushjunta we should give her some respect as a rape victim.

[Spentastic]

34. Hold up

If she was raped I feel extremely sorry for her.

However, Lynch has been a propaganda piece all along. This story without independent confirmation is just that, a story.

[Brian Sweat]

47. I understand your logic, but I am willing to bet that

if someone where to ack Lynch, she would say she has no memories of the period of time in question and doesn't know if it is true or not.

It's a pretty good bet that if Lynch says that she was raped, that the book would quote her instead of saying that "medical records indicate she was raped." It is not unbelievable that she was raped, this happens quite a bit in combat situations. However, the way that this is worded in the book is very suspicious. By stating that the medical records indicate this, the author makes it impossible to charge him with telling a lie if it is not true.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minstrel Boy]

38. great post

Solid analysis, thanks.

[ArkDem]

50. Wow, an expert in anal rape.

What a diverse group we have.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. And you're an expert in....???

[ArkDem]

92. Spotting bs artists.....

.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

103. Then I guess you've already spotted the author of this book.

[ArkDem]

164. Haven't read it and don't plan to

all knowing one.

[KaraokeKarlton]

76. Um, you don't know what you're talking about

My ex husband was a woman beater and he raped me more than once, quite a few times, in fact. I hate to break it to you, but men who would rape a woman DO rape them anally as well as vaginally. I would know this because it happened to me. It inflicts more pain, degradation and humiliation of vaginal rape. Personally, as someone who has been through this and feels comfortable talking about it, I still don't think it's appropriate for anyone to be making light of this. She's fortunate to not remember this. It's actually probably what caused the amnesia. For a lot of people it's easier for them to block memories like this out than it is to deal with them. Regardless of how anyone feels about Bush's decision to go to Iraq, it is WRONG to aim ANY of that anger at Jessica Lynch, and it's wrong to minimize what she went through.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

102. It's also wrong to believe something that's probably not true...

...and I'm surprised that anyone would accept this version of the Lynch story without a lot more information.

Doesn't it bother you at all that Bragg was dismissed from a major newspaper for using others to do his "legwork"?

Doesn't it bother you at all that military medical records are kept under lock and key even after a person has left the service?

Doesn't it bother you that Ms. Johnson was not interviewed for this book on this particular subject even though she was also a POW?

Doesn't it bother you that there is a major disconnect in this story of the Iraqis who supposedly carried out this brutal act and then turned around and took her to an Iraqi hospital where she received better care than the Iraqis themselves?

I have quite a few additional questions about the contents of this book but those will do as starters.

[gbwarming]

109. You keep harping on the medical records

Doesn't it bother you at all that Bragg was dismissed from a major newspaper for using others to do his "legwork"?

Sure. But he was never accused of printing false information, only false or inadequte attribution. Also, this is an authorized biography. Reviewed by the subject before release.

Doesn't it bother you at all that military medical records are kept under lock and key even after a person has left the service?

No. Again, this is an authorized biography. There's a perfectly plausible way for Bragg to have access to her records - She may have given them to him.

Doesn't it bother you that Ms. Johnson was not interviewed for this book on this particular subject even though she was also a POW?

I'll reserve judgement on that until the book comes out. Edit: Johnson and all the others deserve to have their stories told too of course.

Doesn't it bother you that there is a major disconnect in this story of the Iraqis who supposedly carried out this brutal act and then turned around and took her to an Iraqi hospital where she received better care than the Iraqis themselves?

No. Read this written about Col.Rhonda Cornum from GW1:

"A flight surgeon on a 1991 search and rescue mission in Iraq, Cornum was captured when her helicopter was shot down. She took a bullet in the shoulder, had a shattered knee and could not move her badly broken arms. Cornum says her main concern when an Iraqi soldier began to unzip her pants in the truck that picked her up was whether the pending assault would aggravate her grievous injuries."
http://www.feminist.com/news/news181.html
http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/women_health/WomenS_Health_CD/ed2/Enhanced/POW.htm

Get it? Cornum was assaulted too on the way to wherever they were taking her. It can happen.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

117. "Can happen" and did happen are two different things, are they not?...

Doesn't it bother you at all that Bragg was dismissed from a major newspaper for using others to do his "legwork"?

Sure. But he was never accused of printing false information, only false or inadequte attribution. Also, this is an authorized biography. Reviewed by the subject before release.

If Bragg's stories had been factually correct they would never have fired him or forced him to resign. Something drew their attention to his work, and I doubt seriously that it was just the use of other individuals to gather information. Again, that raises major credibility issues in my mind.

Doesn't it bother you at all that military medical records are kept under lock and key even after a person has left the service?

No. Again, this is an authorized biography. There's a perfectly plausible way for Bragg to have access to her records - She may have given them to him.

"Authorized biography"?? By whom? The military? The Pentagon? Who is really having the final say on content? Surely you don't believe the Lynch family would have the final say when the military has staked quite a bit on this story to date. Are you aware that other parents/relatives in other cases involving death or wounding in Iraq/Afghanistan have been told by the military to keep their mouths shut or risk losing their military benefits? The Lynch family has a lot more to lose in addition to her military medical benefits when you consider they also have a $1 million book and movie deal. Remember, this is being brought to us by the same people that claimed that there were WMDs in Iraq.

Doesn't it bother you that Ms. Johnson was not interviewed for this book on this particular subject even though she was also a POW?

I'll reserve judgement on that until the book comes out. Edit: Johnson and all the others deserve to have their stories told too of course.

You've already gotten your answer on this subject. If the same thing had happened to Johnson, her interview would have been a powerful addition to this story. The two stories together would have made its way to the media quite some time ago.

Doesn't it bother you that there is a major disconnect in this story of the Iraqis who supposedly carried out this brutal act and then turned around and took her to an Iraqi hospital where she received better care than the Iraqis themselves?

No. Read this written about Col.Rhonda Cornum from GW1:

"A flight surgeon on a 1991 search and rescue mission in Iraq, Cornum was captured when her helicopter was shot down. She took a bullet in the shoulder, had a shattered knee and could not move her badly broken arms. Cornum says her main concern when an Iraqi soldier began to unzip her pants in the truck that picked her up was whether the pending assault would aggravate her grievous injuries."
http://www.feminist.com/news/news181.html
http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/women_health/WomenS_Health_CD/ed2/Enhanced/POW.htm

Get it? Cornum was assaulted too on the way to wherever they were taking her. It can happen.

Thanks for all of the additional information, but you failed to answer my original question. Why didn't the Iraqis who allegedly assaulted Lynch kill her instead of taking her to the hospital? Why has the Lynch story changed several times since the events unfolded, while the Cornum story was told once with no obvious falsifications?

[gbwarming]

130. Of course they are. Skepticism is one thing, outright denial another.

If Bragg's stories had been factually correct they would never have fired him or forced him to resign. Something drew their attention to his work, and I doubt seriously that it was just the use of other individuals to gather information. Again, that raises major credibility issues in my mind.

I think you're wrong about that.

http://archives.cjr.org/year/03/3/bragg.asp
In an interview, Yoder, who now works as a staff reporter at The Anniston Star, the same paper where Bragg began his career, said that he never expected to get a byline for the Apalachicola piece. "This is what stringers do, the legwork," he said. "I did most of the reporting and Rick wrote it. Nothing’s inaccurate. Rick tried to bring the piece alive, to take the reader there, and he did a darn good job of it."

"Authorized biography"?? By whom? The military? The Pentagon? Who is really having the final say on content? Surely you don't believe the Lynch family would have the final say when the military has staked quite a bit on this story to date. Are you aware that other parents/relatives in other cases involving death or wounding in Iraq/Afghanistan have been told by the military to keep their mouths shut or risk losing their military benefits? The Lynch family has a lot more to lose in addition to her military medical benefits when you consider they also have a $1 million book and movie deal. Remember, this is being brought to us by the same people that claimed that there were WMDs in Iraq.

Yes. I think that Lynch, through her lawyers, had final say on the contents. I guess I'd be a little more comfortable risking my benefits if I had a million dollar book deal to fall back on.

Remember, this is being brought to us by the same people that claimed that there were WMDs in Iraq.

Not sure which 'same people' you're talking about. The fact that the story in the excerpt contradicts 'Mohammed the Livingston Group employee' lends it credibility in my eyes.


Thanks for all of the additional information, but you failed to answer my original question. Why didn't the Iraqis who allegedly assaulted Lynch kill her instead of taking her to the hospital? Why has the Lynch story changed several times since the events unfolded, while the Cornum story was told once with no obvious falsifications?

Who knows why they didn't kill her. Why didn't they kill all of them?

"The Lynch Story" HAS changed many times, and we knew it was being manipulated for propoganda here on DU as it unfolded. For example, there were 2 video and a still photographers in the rescue party. However, this is THE FIRST telling of the story by Lynch herself (or her ghostwriter) and so far it agrees very well with the foreign reporting (toronto Star).
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0504-05.htm

Cornum also waited a while to reveal all of her story. It's a big descision to reveal sexual abuse in this culture:
"In fact, Cornum did not discuss her own sexual assault for an entire year after her release, though she was interviewed extensively and testified about her POW experience before a congressional panel."
http://www.feminist.com/news/news181.html

[KaraokeKarlton]

158. People who serve in the military have full access to their medical records

They even get copies of their entire records. I know this because my ex husband's military medical records sat in our filing cabinet throughout the 10 years we were married. His records included x-rays and everything. I don't think servicemen/women can just sign a release to get them forwarded, but they can get their own copies of their records, including some of the original records.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

159. Yes, I know that...I still have a copy of my service records to include...

...my medical records. My point is that someone outside the military would not be able to access those records.

I also don't believe that the Lynch's would have given Jessica's records to that scumball Bragg for any reason. If the guy was fired from the NY Times for taking credit for the work of others, it's not a stretch in my mind that he would be willing to lie to sensationalize his book about Jessica.

[gbwarming]

161. She undoubtedly gave them to Bragg.

They're listed as co-authors on her book. Check it out.

I am a Soldier, too: The Jessica Lynch Story
by Rick Bragg, Jessica Lynch

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400042577/qid=1068186080/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-6259779-4552820?v=glance&n=507846#product-details

I'm only responding because this thread is at the top. I will not kick it again.

[KaraokeKarlton]

157. Here's a little clue for you...

Most women don't like to talk about being raped because it is both humiliating and in most cases the woman who have endured this feel incredible shame. The only reason Lynch is willing to talk about it is likely because she doesn't remember it. If she did remember it, it's unlikely she would have talked about it, unless she is incredibly strong emotionally. A person's medical records are private. It's a part of the patient/doctor privelege. Rapes are very common in wars. Ask the women of Vietnam. Johnson probably got raped too, providing someone guarding her had the opportunity to do it. The difference would be that she would most likely remember it and thus would be less inclined to talk about it. It took me almost 10 years to tell anyone, and I am extremely strong emotionally. Remember the Central Park jogger? That's what Lynch's situation reminds me of. Both were beat within an inch of death and examinations show they were brutally raped. And why are you assuming that those who hurt her took her to the hospital? For all you know Iraqi civillians could have found her and taken her to the hospital along with the troops who were killed. It'd be my guess that she was in such bad shape they thought she was dead and just left her there and took the POWS and moved on.

Lynch's physical condition almost sounds like Saddam's psycho rapist son got a hold of her. He made a habit of doing that to young women and girls.

Of course the whole thing should be investigated, but no one should question her claims unless something is found to suggest her story isn't true. I can't believe some of what I'm reading on this site.

[jmowreader]

170. Different situation, KK...

I'm coming at this from the military point of view, not the abused-spouse/spouse-abuser point of view.

In my original post (which should have been pulled, if I was a mod I'd have pulled it and I wrote it!) I posited that it makes no sense for field troops to anally rape someone who is unconscious--you can't intimidate someone who's in a coma and field troops are not in the intimidation business. Once you got her back to the interrogators and they got her woke up, anal rape makes a lot of sense as a degradation technique.

But we know that Jessica never went to the interrogators. She went to the hospital, where she was treated exceptionally well.

[Muddleoftheroad]

77. Even in America

I hate this whole thread. None of us knows whether she was raped or not, but evidence of rape should be pretty clear cut. If a doctor says so, I will believe it.

As for why anally, a lot of men even in America won't have sex with women during their period. That may well have been the case here.

[incapsulated]

32. First...

Lynch doesn't remember anything, so any accusation of rape is coming from, who? Her doctors? I don't know. I'd like more details on this, myself.

Second, this quote:

"The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead."

From everything I've read, her injuries were from the truck rolling over on her. This whole story of her being beaten is new to me, and more in line with the disinformation that was coming out early in the story, which had her in a shootout with the Iraqis and shot and stabbed as well (which were all false).

[CaptainMidnight]

33. hey I made a joke

but my joke wasn't joking about rape.

if you read it, and you know ANYTHING about the propaganda and false information given to Americans regarding Gulf War I and Gulf War II, you'll see that I was mocking the phony PR stories from the previous engagement.

GET IT?!

Jesus, I have to explain this. Last week I made a post about The Ahnold Recall Election and Greg Palast's discovery of his deal with Ken Lay. I included a joke comment about Indians, and I got flamed by several posters, even tho it had NOTHING to do with my original posting or the point of all that. Several people demanded on apology from me. I also had one of my responses nuked by the moderator.

No wonder the REpublicans are wiping the floor with us, and laughing in our faces...

Captain Mike

[OneTwentyoNine]

36. No,most aren't smart enough to get it.....

Instead of reading the original post and replies for what they are they just can't put two and two together over this Jessica Lynch story. Nope,just hit the reply button and start bashing those who supposedly don't care about women or the way their treated.

Come on people,how much of a FARCE does it take on this Lynch story to make you see the light?!?!? All these brutal,horrible things happened to her (most were refuted by her father) yet.. she has absolutely no recollection of them. She was shot,stabbed,raped,then shot again then stabbed or was it the other way around??

This is pure propaganda BS that Bush wanted to use in the early going to make our illegal invasion seem legal. If you want to fall for this shit then go ahead,I'm not and I'm not watching any movie about Lynch or reading a book that will be nothing but a 90% tissue of lies.

David

[HPLeft]

35. Sorry, but I don't buy it

No pun intended, but something smells really foul here.

[ProfessorGAC]

62. Don't Believe It, Either

Seems too convenient. Just like her bullet wounds, her gun battle until she passed out, her broken bones from the beatings, etc.

All that's proven false, and now there's new injuries we didn't know about for 5 months?

I think this is made up. If it's not made up, it's truly terrible. But, i just doubt the authors' veracity.
The Professor

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. There's too many questions

surrounding this story.

The Jessica Lynch saga is nothing but propaganda for the administration. Don't you remember when she returned to the U.S. and the HUGE secretive transport of her on the stretcher, hidden from cameras by the soldiers around the plane? She was ORDERED not to speak to the press. Her parents could not speak to the press. She was under guard by military personnel, for what reason? She soon thereafter just "happened" to be fortunate enough to get a book and movie deal? Could it be hush money? She wouldn't know, she has no memory. Ya, OK. WHY have 3 of the soldiers who were with her in the accident ended up dead? Coincidence? What about Shashana Johnson? SHE was injured in the war and held CAPTIVE, a POW...MUCH more interesting than a car accident! So? Why are they not giving HER a book and movie deal? Do you think it's, just MAYBE, because her incident actually happened and doesn't need to be covered up? Please, if I thought this was true, if this was the least bit factual, I would feel differently. The story is a fairy tale, written by the Bush cabal. The whole thing is questionable.

[radwriter0555]

41. Real easy for some 'docs' to SAY she was raped, and SHE doesn't

have the ability to know if it happened or not. So she can't deny it happened... and medical records can easily be manipulated.

The story stinks. I mean come on, did the US soldiers who swiped her from the hospital take her medical records with them?

I don't think so.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

54. Maybe you overlooked this piece of information in the article...

"Bragg, a former New York Times reporter who quit after admitting he had a legman do some of his reporting...".

Maybe you could also do a little research on your own and let us all know how many times this story has been changed.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. So, who's participating in "victim taunting"? And why are you lumping...

...me in with the so-called "sickos"? What's your problem, pal?

The only thing I see happening in this thread is a very real questioning of the veracity of Bragg, as well as a general disbelief in the several different versions of the Lynch story. There were absolutely NO direct quotes from Lynch in this rape story, were there? The authors of the article also included the following statement as a CYA: "Thankfully, she has no memory of the rape".

As far as I know, Lynch's only participation in this whole deal was to agree to a book and movie deal, and to accept a Bronze Star for actions that supposedly took place while she was out cold. Some of her fellow soldiers aren't too happy with her, but that's Lynch's problem, isn't it? It would be very interesting to hear what Johnson, her fellow female soldier has to say about her captivity...if she was also raped, don't you think this story would have come out some time ago?

By the way, to answer the comment in your subject line, this is the same version of the article which appeared very early this morning in at least two different publications.

[TheWebHead]

90. has nothing to do with Bragg

get off the Bragg point.. for one, he's not Jason Blair, the guy didn't "make up" stories. And as if it mattered, Lynch's parents are explaining why it was included in the story in the ABC Primetime interview.. Bragg can't force them to say that.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/Primetime/GMA031106LynchBook.html

this idea that a conspiracy convinced Jessica Lynch to admit to the world that she was anally raped for political purposes is just the height of loony-bin stupidity.

[Military Brat]

107. "the height of loony bin stupidity"

Sort of like believing the story about WMD in Iraq and Saddam's association with 9/11 and all those other mendacious tales from the bush administration.

People do things for their own reason. Just because they're Jessica's parents doesn't make them saints. "Mr. and Mrs. Lynch, in the interest of national security, the government of the United States of America would be most grateful if you would stand behind this story."

In short, the ends justifies the means.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

110. It has a great deal to do with Bragg. He was either...

...fired outright or forced to quit based on his use of freelancers to do his legwork for him. Bragg's lack of credibility is the absolute key to believing this version of the Lynch story.

What facts in this book, if any, has Bragg personally verified?

What quotes did he get directly from Ms. Lynch on the subject of the alleged rape, and why he did he fail to also interview Ms. Johnson, Lynch's fellow POW?

To what exactly has Lynch admitted in this book other than being unconscious for several hours with no knowledge of what was done to her, if anything?

How did the author manage to get information from Lynch's medical record when military medical records are kept under lock and key even after the person has left the service?

Why would Iraqis dispicable enough to commit such a brutal act turn around and deliver her to an Iraqi hospital where she received better care than the Iraqis?

And as far as what the parents are prepared to say or not say, they weren't there were they? All they know is what they've been told from people that apparently have a real strong stake in maintaining the image of Ms. Lynch as a Bronze Star earning hero. And what if Lynch's parents were told, as other parents and relatives have been told, that any deviation from the official party line will result in the cancellation of Lynch's military medical benefits, as well as the withdrawal of the book and movie deal?

Speaking of the Bronze Star, how did she manage to earn that award while she was unconcious following the wreck of her vehicle?

Hey, if you want to believe any or all of this story, please feel free to do so. You're even more convincing when you start name-calling.

[Classical_Liberal]

134. They lied about her rescue

Why wouldn't they lie about this?

[greyl]

60. Your reply is funky.

It doesn't offer any reason at all why the other post stinks and seems to be ignoring the problems of fact that Bragg's story has.

[austinboy]

42. Great post

Rape is a brutal crime and the majority would agree with that assesment. But the stories coming from Ms. Lynch's saga reek of propaganda meant to dehumanize the supposed enemy. I just saw a little snipet on Good Morning America advertising an upcoming interview Diane Sawyer had with Jessica. It was so apparent that Ms. Sawyer was giddy with anticipation about it's viewing by the public that it literally made me sick. The media is complicent about spreading this shit because it will do wonders for their ratings. They supported the overthrow of a sovereign nation and now they must protect their investment. I'm seeing the glass half-empty these days...HELP!!!!

[candy331]

46. What happened to the

rape shield protections in this case? Who is benefiting by putting her name and face out there for rape to the public to know she was raped. What happened to the privacy of rape victims? If she doesnt remember she was raped how can she know that it happened? Shoshanna Johnson was a pow and if you would have thought anyone would say they were raped you would think it would be her or did I miss her saying she was? I don't want to take anything away from her if she was but am not willing to blindly be led along either. Sounds like propaganda to me.

[maveric]

96. Great post

:kick:

[northzax]

139. rape sheild is voluntary

if the victim wishes to speak about it, then the media will use her/his name.

frankly, I can't imagine anyone claiming an anal rape if it didn't happen to them.

[charlie]

44. Rick Bragg

Thought I remembered that name...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2083607/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51506-2003May28?language=printer

[Brian Sweat]

45. This is an authorized biography

If she was actually raped, then you think that they could quote her and not her medical records. I agree, this doesn't pass the smell test. If Lynch says she was raped, then I believe her, but if they only quote her medical records, then I am skeptical.

[Terwilliger]

61. medical records? army medical records?

does anyone believe that if they could manufacture the entire incident that they couldn't falsify medical records?

And how many of her "rescuers" have died so far under strange circumstances?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. My question is how did they get her medical records in the first place,...

...if that is indeed what they're quoting from?

Those files are normally kept locked up and confidential even after a person leaves the service.

Four of Lynch's alleged rescuers have died so far:

1) drive-by shooting;
2) Suicide;
3) Single-car accident;
4) Shot in the back during combat operations.

[sistersofmercy]

49. Rape has been one of the best BFEE propoganda tools!

Brought to you by the same ppl who gave us the Willie Horton scandel during the 88 election, the Iraqi soldiers who raped Kuwaiti mothers in front of their children and incubator babies prior to GW I. How dare you question the VICTIM, have you no sympathy? Saddam was a rapist, his sons were rapists and the Iraqi soldiers and police rape-tortured women with cattle prods. Yep just associate rape with Iraqis. More to come from the rape card carrying BFEE.

[foo_bar]

108. the use of rape by Saddam's regime

is well-documented by such "BFEE" sympathizers as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. I know it's difficult to hold two opposing thoughts in one's head, such as Bush being evil and rapists being simultaneously evil.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/07/iraq071603.htm
http://www.atour.com/news/international/20010710l.html

[radwriter0555]

112. Actually, those "rape camps" haven't been documented at all, but

merely referred in 3rd person and "I know a guy/girl who said so-and-so had a friend who..." type stuff.

[QC]

116. Is Amnesty International a tool of the BFEE?

Political prisoners and detainees were subjected to systematic torture. The bodies of many of those executed had evident signs of torture. Common methods of physical torture included electric shocks or cigarette burns to various parts of the body, pulling out of fingernails, rape, long periods of suspension by the limbs from either a rotating fan in the ceiling or from a horizontal pole, beating with cables, hosepipe or metal rods, and falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet). In addition, detainees were threatened with rape and subjected to mock execution. They were placed in cells where they could hear the screams of others being tortured and were deliberately deprived of sleep.

Link

The fact that Bush is a son of a bitch doesn't necessarily mean that Saddam is St. Francis.

[Classical_Liberal]

137. The fact that Bush is a liar

and had lied about this rescue means the rest of the story should be questioned too.

[QC]

149. True, but that has nothing to do with what I was responding to,

which was the notion that there is no evidence for widespread human rights violations under Saddam.

Just twenty years ago, liberals were loudly condemning Saddam's brutality, while Reagan and Co. were sending him weapons, training his nuclear scientists, etc. Now that the conservatives have turned on their old buddy, some liberals feel a compulsion to defend him. That's kneejerk thinking at its worst. Is it really so hard to grasp that Bush and Saddam are both very bad men?

[Classical_Liberal]

151. What post made that claim?

?

[QC]

156. Read posts 108 and 112.

The first says that human rights groups have noted the use of rape as a tool of oppression in Iraq, and the second said that there is no convincing evidence of this.

Until I see good reason to do otherwise, I tend to accept the claims of Amnesty.

[Isome]

168. I have complete faith in the integrity of Amnesty International...

But, they also condemned Iraqis for killing Kuwaiti babies in incubators. They later had to issue a mea culpa for being fooled by those lies. No group, no matter how well-intentioned is infallible.

[Classical_Liberal]

136. The lying of this administration is also well documented

particularly when it comes to Jessie Lynch.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[John_H]

69. Ah, the ultra-reliable Rick Bragg. Not a blemish on his record.....

Suspended N.Y. Times Reporter Says He'll Quit
Rick Bragg Decries 'Poisonous Atmosphere'
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 27, 2003; Page C01


Month after month, year after year, Rick Bragg said, his mission was to "go get the dateline," even when that meant leaning heavily on the reporting of others.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A42091-2003May26¬Found=true

Ol Rick metaphorically anally raped his stringers by letting them do all the work while he took all the credit.

[gbwarming]

72. Hang on a second. What does 'authorized biography' mean?

Are you seriously suggesting that Bragg made up stuff that Lynch and her lawyer did not review and agree with for this book?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. Do you see any direct quotes from Lynch on the rape story?....

The only thing I read was a comment from the authors of the newspaper article that had to do with her having no memory of the event.

How come nobody has asked Ms. Johnson if she was raped? After all, she was a CONSCIOUS prisoner of war, wasn't she? Wouldn't her recollections lend some weight to the charges made by Bragg?

And what does "authorized biography" mean in this case? Authorized by whom, and for what purposes?

I guess you also missed the paragraph that stated that Bragg had been fired from a major newspaper for letting others do his "legwork". I wonder who did his "legwork" for this book?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Endangered Specie]

80. A few points...

- First, if she was raped, and the medical records show it, then why the hell didn't the progaganda machine fire up? That kind of story true or not, woudve been a platinum propoganda opprotunity. I can see the headlines, 'iraqis raping our soldiers, we must kill the infedels!'

- Why now, months after the war and the ordeal, are we hearing this, and why from a not entirely credible snake?.

- If she doesn't remember it, and it showed up after being rescued, how do we know 100% sure who done it, rape happens in the US military too (I know that is a grand charge, but, nothing is impossible these days, it just doesn't 'seem right)


ANd one last thing, STOP bashing her, she is just an innocent pawn in power propoganda, if someone offered you millions to tell your life story, would you not jump at it?

[Skittles]

NO

I WOULD NOT JUMP ON IT. I'm a female veteran and I would have NEVER allowed myself to be used like this for money. She's a DISGRACE. Whatever you may think, some people cannot be bought.

[dansolo]

153. She may have been brainwashed

She probably has very little recollection of what happened, and being that she is fairly young, she may naively believe everything that she has been told. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she has been manipulated throughout all of this.

[haymaker]

111. Just keep towing the company line Billybuck,

i see you working.

This whole Jessica Lynch thing is a bunch of bullshit. The "official" story down to this pathetic invasion of the girl's privacy.

Ask yourself why on God's green earth would this be in the news?

The ONLY answer is propaganda aimed at demonizing the Iraqis and lamely justifying this illegal war. That is the only reason I can think of. Perhaps it's because Jessica wants it out there. Yeah right.

This is a new low, not here at the DU, but in the USA. That shit should have been left in the dark, whether it happened or not.

[John_H]

124. I'm starting not to recognize it either--the go-along-get-along party

No siree, Bob. No reason to be a bit uneasy. 100% memory lapse on the crucial events. Evidence the rescue was a James Cameron-style movie.
Ol' Jes being used by Rummy as the poster child for the righteousness of his cause. The story "as told to" a guy who's perfectly willing to take money and credit another writer's work.

Guess I'll watch what I say. Meanwhile you and Ari should go have lunch.

[Classical_Liberal]

140. She is a kid being used by the President to advance more lies

.

[John_H]

119. No, I'm suggesting that since he has no problem

passing off someone else's work as his own, he may have no problem passing off propaganda and/or unverified info under his signature.

[Classical_Liberal]

138. Jessie Lynch isn't a civilian

so she can't really authorize anything. Furthermore she has been offered many sweetheart deals from Hollywood for being a victim of Saddam, not a victim of the Bush propaganda machine. I am betting this story is bunk.

[Starpass]

78. There are two things I find "convenient" in this story

and thus smelling like all the other "assaults" on her that ended up pure garbage (remember her family tried very nicely to tell us that SHE HAD NO AMNESIA and remembers things as well as she did before she ever was in the service). The convenient things are: 1) anal rape vs vaginal---why? Would vaginal rape been something easier for them to confirm at the get go but they can say it was missed if it was anal?? 2) why again the bullshit about her being in amnesia over this and can't remember (thus verify). Like I said her family told us she had no amnesia and they were really trying to watch their words because you could just sense that they were scared to cross the military or Bush. The day they can come up with something that Jessica can remember is the day I would believe them. It's convenient to always stuff everything under the "can't remember" category. I think when you talk about rape, these journalist and their corporate masters are the ones who should be imprisioned for raping.

[in_cog_ni_to]

85. You know?

I had completely forgotten about her parents saying that! You're right, they did say it. Also, it was so OBVIOUS that her father was scared to death to say anything! I'm of the mind that says, when Jessica says it happened, then I'll believe it." This is nothing more than a "medical report" that she just..."luckily, doesn't remember."

PROPAGANDA

[SonofMass]

95. Do they need to die so we can be free?

.

[SOS]

79. Thousands of US soldiers

have been injured in Iraq. All have been hidden from the media with the exception of Jesica Lynch.
Here's one (cynical) possibility:

PRESIDENT 100% of precincts - West Virginia - 2000 selection
Bush 329,708
Gore Ê 291,088
Nader Ê 10,440

Add Nader to Gore, a likelyhood in 2004, and you get a margin of only 28,000. 5 electoral votes at stake.
The 2000 electoral final was 271 to 266. A margin of 5.
If WV had gone to Gore, Gore would have won, even without Florida.
Also, Sen. Robert Byrd, the strongest opponent of Iraq attack, is from WV.
Whatever the truth of Ms. Lynch's ordeal, one thing is certain:
Having a war hero from WV helps Bush politically.

[Beaker]

123. Not if that "war hero" dislikes Bush and actively campaigns against him

I seem to remember that in her welcome home speech, Bush's name was conspicuous by it's absence.

[SOS]

155. Lynch campaigning

for the Democratic nominee would be great, although it seems unlikely. Manufacturing the Lynch story has Rove's fingerprints all over it.
Don't forget the steel tariffs. They are also designed to aid West Virginia. The EU now says they will add billions in tariffs against US goods in response to the steel tariffs. The EU understands our electoral college well.
Dream scenario: In December Bush is forced to drop the tariffs and next year Lynch campaigns for the Dems.
West Virginia then moves from red to blue and Bush is out.

[FDRrocks]

82. If it has the name Jessica Lynch on it...

odds are it is not true.

[Cat Atomic]

86. OH! Well, now I see why we invaded then. Anal rapists.

:eyes:

It's certainly possible that she was raped. Sick bastards do that to people sometimes.

But sick bastards also lie about other groups to demonize them, and to justify wars (Kuwaiti incubators, for instance). Considering the fact Fox News was broadcasting Iraqi torture/murder tapes just last week, the claim is suspect.

[gWbush is Mabus]

93. NOT TO BE INSENSITIVE BUT

not a joke...

1. wouldn't it be hard to have anal sex with a passed out, unwilling, small person covered with blood and many, many, broken bones?

2. how does a penetrated anus look compared to a bloodied and bruised body with many broken bones from a car accident. In other words, if they found a black and blue anus, how do they know it was not consistent with a car accident?

[LiberalTradition]

89. I don't think that there is enough evidence to reach any kind

of meaningful conclusion.

[thebeaglehaslanded]

91. Rape allegation aside, was there any evidence that ther other injuries

were caused by anything other than the vehicle wreck? I don't recall. But Bragg wants us to believe that her bones might have been crushed by her captors. These are the words of a propagandist, not of a credible author: "The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead."

[TrogL]

97. This makes sense

Yes, I know this is a contrarian view, but it fits in with what I've been told, from a reliable source, who I will name if pressed, about what goes on in situations like this.

This first came to light in the Afghan war and I posted about it (including pictures) on my oilwars website (which got taken down by Diebold, for reasons I don't understand). Muslim soldiers routinely anally rape captured combattants.

You may remember from the first Gulf War that there were difficulties caused by locals not being sure how to react to female US soldiers. They had to be restricted to base and wear long-sleeve uniforms only. Eventually, if I understand correctly, they were sort of declared "honorary men".

Hence, a captured female soldier would probably not be raped vaginally, as this would violate religious dogma, but anal rape would be acceptable as that is what would be done to men.

[Cocoa]

114. but it's not consistent with Shoshanna Johnson's account

she said that when her group was "resuced", the "rescuers" came storming in and were about to subdue the captors forcefully, but that her unit stopped them, saying "these are our friends."

So, whatever the theory says about how Muslims treat their prisoners, the actual experience overrules the theory.

[TrogL]

125. Stockholm Syndrome??

[DrWeird]

98. Wow. First Sarah Page now Jessica Lynch.

When will those filthy animals learn?

[Yupster]

99. From www.askimam.com

Allah has made only wives and slave-girls halal for men to have intercourcse with. Can you explain who these slave-girls are and what qualities do they have?

In this age and times who can be classified as slave-girl? Since the possibility of acquiring a slave-girl like the earlier Muslims used to have them and also having multiple wives is next to impossible in these times, is there a derivative of a slave-girl that one could have?

Answer 2476 2001-03-24



The slave girls refer to those non-Muslim woman who are captured in Jihaad by the Muslims. They are distributed among the warriors according to the
laws of distributing spoils of war.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

*****************************************************************

And another question on the topic of anal sex

*****************************************************************

Is anal sex permissible between husband and wife?

I read in a book, which mentioned all the actions necessitating a fard bath(ghusl), and one of them were anal sex. Does this mean it is permitted in islam.

Answer 3068 2001-06-09




Respected Brother-in-Islam

Assalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu

It is reported from Ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu) that Hadhrat Umar
(Radhiallaahu Anhu) had intercourse with his wife through rear entry (not
anal entry). Later, he was overtaken with the thought that perhaps he had
committed an undesirable act. Immediately, he rushed off to the Prophet
(Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) calling out, 'I have been destroyed, I have
been destroyed!' He was asked what was the matter, to which he recounted his
fear of having committed an undesirable act. The prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi
Wasallam) remained silent, giving no answer. Sometime later, these Aayaats
of the noble Qur'aan were revealed: 'Your wives are a tillage (farm) unto
you, thus approach your tillage from wherever you wish.' (Baqarah Aayat223).
Thereafter, the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) explained the meaning
of the Aayat by saying that, 'Intercourse in the Vagina is permissible in
any position which one desires to adopt.' From the front or rear, so long as
intercourse during menstruation and anal sex does not take place, for these
are Haraam. (Tafseer Fathul Qadeer; Shawkaani).

>From the above, we understand that the husband may approach his wife from
the front, sides or rear whether in a supine position or squatting, all are
permissible, as long as intercourse takes place in the vagina, and not in
the anus.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

[Classical_Liberal]

143. The old testement says the same thing of captive women

So what.

[cosmicdot]

105. I heard she was abducted by aliens and returned to earth ...

{{{anyone buying it???? ... buy this story!}}}



this is an odd piece of a story only to now surface

"the plastic" - the fake ... the faux ... the tabloidism ... the corporate plastic bland sameness ... have sucked all of reality out of life ... people don't know what to believe thanks to the lies and yellow journalism and sensationalism pumped into our national psyche daily far too long

[Cocoa]

115. why did the doctors tell her she was raped?

If she didn't remember it, what purpose was served by telling her?

Doctors: do you remember being anally raped?

Lynch: no

Doctors: well, you were.

[Classical_Liberal]

144. They are military doctors who take orders.

and the pentegon is run by lying filth.

[dutchdemocrat]

118. New York Daily News Get's First Copy.

Front Page in New York Daily News. Who owns the paper, I am curious?

[Beaker]

120. CONSENSUAL anal sex leaves scars too-

who knows what her own sexual predilictions are, and what her personal sex life was like before and after she went to Iraq?
Lots of women enjoy anal sex, and there's nothing wrong than that

[Zero Gravitas]

122. So many lies

so many lies have already been told about Lynch and her "rescue" both by the * Regime and thier lackeys in the corporate media that I don't know what to believe anymore. This could easily just be yet more propaganda.

[PeacePatriot]

132. Propaganda is right

Since her "rescue" was pure made-for-TV propaganda, it's not too much to assume that this revelation is nothing more than an attempt to salvage some remaining propaganda value from the story. If she were raped, why would her or her family want this incredibly embarrassing detail exposed to the public? Does this serve her interests or the adminstration's? Iraqis are anally raping our young women. That ought to fuel a little more bloodlust here at home, eh? If true, of course, my heart goes out to her both for any ordeal she faced on foreign for soil (whatever actually happened) AND for being used as a propaganda pawn by the administration afterward. God, it's no wonder she has so much 'amnesia.'

GET THE TROOPS HOME NOW!

[Astarho]

133. Why do I find this hard to believe?

Does rape happen in war, yes, but this doesn't fit, especially given the history of Jessica's disappearing bullet and knife wounds.

The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead.

Lemme get this straight, they pull her from the wreck, rape her (in a way that has connotations of deviation) and injure her even worse and then take her to the hospital? If they are really that inhuman, why not put a bullet in her head? Or just leave her for dead (if her bones were smashed to splinters, the desert would have taken care of her pretty quick)

This story gains more sympathy points for Jessica while at the same time further dehumanizing the Iraqis.

Personaly the fact that the Bushies/Rove/et al would put the trauma of a rape into this girl's head for a Propaganda campaign is the most disgusting part of this story.

[RapidCreek]

141. How do we know it was Iraqi's that put something in her ass?

Is there some sort a way in which to determine the nationality of the person who stick something in your ass? Is there some means with which to determine when it was stuck there?

Three of my ex-girlfriends sought to initiate anal intercourse...though I am fairly certain most would be hesitant to share that fact with the world.

In that the report "indicates" that she had no control of her bowels...and still is seeking to gain it....would a constant stream of feces not irritate the bowel tract in much the same fashion as anal intercourse?

It seems to me that a rather gargantuan leap has been made here....
RC

[Capn Sunshine]

142. Interesting that the "Movie" comes out this weekend

Funny the timing in this.

Shoshanna Johnson, just curious about her treatment. She seems to remember everything and isn't getting a book or movie.
Did she get a bronze star? I don't recall

IF she doesn't remember , I'm glad for her, but I have to wonder where the Daily News will be for her when she finally DOES recall.

With the PTSD she will have, I can't believe the way they are touring her around like a trained pony.

[youngred]

148. *IF* this is true its huge, and she should be respected over it

However, that this part of the story is just now coming out now(something the bush co. would have loved to have screamed about because it advanced tehir agenda) does seem a bit fishy. Add that to all the other bullshit information out there about her injuries, captivity and rescue and I have my doubts. If its true my heart goes out to the poor girl who was wounded so horribly, went through such degredation and has had her name smeared all over the big news when she would probably have rather had it kept quiet and was raped (a throughoughly wretched practice) on top of all that. Well, all I can say is Peace be with her and I hope she is ok.

That doesn't mean I don't have my doubts about the veracity of the story though

[RapidCreek]

154. If she would have preferred to keep things private....

why didn't she? More to the point...how did some idiot author get access to her military medical records...unless that is, she gave him the records. It's sad the Bush PR people used her the way that they did...the "official" story is pretty hard to believe now. Thanks AWOL and crew...you just screwed another Veteran! Talk about rape...

RC
USN Vet

[raysr]

160. Women in Combat

Anyone should know a captured woman in combat is going to get raped .

[youngred]

165. that's not a generalization at all

:eyes:

[joyautumn]

162. but let's not fall for Rove's trap

we fall into Rove's propaganda trap if we get sucked into this question of what her Iraqi captors did or did not do to her. she was a soldier and whatever happened to her is what often happens to soldiers in a war - war crimes are illegal but not unexpected. we know this. let's not get baited into acting as if we don't. the best response, i think, is to say:

look, she's a good U.S. soldier, we honor her, like the hundreds of others who have died over the past few months, and the thousands who have been maimed and scarred physically and mentally, as a result of Bush's frat-boy flippant attitute toward the grave decision to send our soldiers into combat. Just like his flippant attitude about finding and prosecuting the terrorist traitor in his administration who outed and exposed an undercover CIA agent and her dozens of clandestine contacts, putting them in grave danger of terrorist retaliation from our enemies. The Bush administration has flippantly and without any rhyme or reason made them all sitting ducks for our enemies, just as he did with Private Lynch and all our other soldiers dying day by day.

our question in response to Rove's new wave of propaganda, which we should repeat over and over and over to hammer the point home, no matter what devious schlock they might parrot Ann Coulter saying:

Are Bush and his administration expecting the American people to be as surprised and shocked as Bush and his flippant cabinet seem to be that a soldier they chose to send to war wound up being brutally tortured by the enemy? What, exactly, did they think was going to happen to the soldiers when they decided to send them to war? We who took to the streets demanding that he wait another day, week, month, two months for a less rash and reckless approach to resolving the Iraq crisis, did so because we genuinely valued, cherished and respected the lives and loyalties of our soldiers and genuinely understood the grave implicatios of sending them into war. so we will not be tricked by Rove and his dirty propaganda tricks into saying anything but that we honor Private Lynch and all our soldiers, and that Bush should never have sent them to war when it was rash, flippant and unnecessary for him to do so. and we also want to know why the Bush administration has decided to throw patriotic journalists and citizens in jail if they dare to take photos or video footage of any of the caskets or funerals of our honored fallen soldiers in the Iraq war we are in right now. why is the Bush Administration sicking the police on anyone who wants to let the American people see and honor our fallen soldiers, including the fourteen members of Private Lynch's unit who have died?

as for the whole question of whether the Iraqi captors are being libeled by Rove's propaganda, that really shouldn't be a concern of ours. we know for a fact that they ambushed her maintenance unit, killing eleven of her fellow soldiers including her best friend, and would have been perfectly pleased if all 16 had died instantly, including her. if someone bombed your car on the freeway leaving you with several broken bones, then rushed you to the hospital, would you call them kind, smile fondly when they bring you flowers? please. having a live hostage, of course, is valuable in any war -- bargaining chip, source of intelligence, etc. so it's a no-brainer why they might have rushed her to the hospital to keep her alive, regardless of what they may or may not have done to torture her immediately after capture.

so we don't have to know whether Private Lynch was raped to know that Rove is trying to make us look like we aren't sympathetic to her if she was. respond to all this propaganda with righteous indignation that Bush put Lynch unnecessarily in harm's way, not with snickering panicky flabbergasted snydeness against Rove's trickery, which we can't prove definitively and do not need to.

so let me just say this about rape in war. rape has been a standard military practice for thousands of years. humans are physically frail animals, and have survived largely through developing empathy and ethics. with this evolutionary tendency toward mutual tenderness, it is difficult to train people to engage in mutual slaughter, but one way to do it is to link sexual pleasure with the infliction of torture and destruction of the enemy's personhood. furthermore, rape is an act that creates maximum empathic distance between the rapist and the victim, taking the most intimate contact and turning it into a cold, blunt act of cruelty and dissociation. if you can manage to feel no empathy in a sex act, what type of contact is there left that could elicit any empathy or tenderness from you? it is natural for humans to feel sympathy for the survivors of any slaughter, even including a slaughter one has just perpetrated, perhaps especially so. so it makes military sense to make it a standard practice for soldiers to take pleasure in torturing any survivors in a way that annihilates the empathic impact and meaning of the most intimate form of contact, sex, and you put in place a strong check against that tendency to sympathize with the enemy which can cause that split-second of hesitation that could cost your whole unit their lives.

the very notion that war does not integrally involve systematic rape, that rape is somehow unusual, when in fact it is business as usual in any seriously contested war, is sheer propagandistic fiction to make war itself seem honorable when war is nothing but damnable, regardless of how honorable the soldiers might be.

joe

[Judi Lynn]

163. In case anyone can't remember clearly

the early reports of Jessica's injuries included her being not only shot, but stabbed. Yessirreee, stabbed.

Found this treasure in google a moment ago:

(snip) Report: Lynch Was Shot, Stabbed in Fierce Struggle With Iraqi Captors

Thursday, April 03, 2003

LANDSTUHL, Germany — Spirited but hungry, rescued prisoner of war Pfc. Jessica Lynch arrived in Germany for treatment of two broken legs and bullet wounds reportedly suffered in a fierce gun battle she waged against her Iraqi captors.

The Washington Post reported Thursday that the 19-year-old Army supply clerk shot several Iraqi soldiers during the March 23 ambush that resulted in her capture. She kept firing even after she had several gunshot wounds, finally running out of ammunition, the newspaper said, citing unidentified U.S. officials.

"She was fighting to the death," the Post quoted an official as saying. "She did not want to be taken alive."

(snip) "She's real spirited. She hasn't eaten in eight days and she's hungry," said her father, Greg Lynch. "She wants some food."

Randy Coleman, a military spokesman in West Virginia, said Lynch had fractures in both legs, and her family said she also injured her arm. U.S. officials in Kuwait said earlier she had two broken legs, a broken arm and at least one gunshot wound.

According to the Post account, she was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her.

(snip/...)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82923,00.html

By the way, one poster on this thread mentioned that women don't like to rehash rapes in front of strangers, then went on and on about it, as if there were no tomorrow. It IS a somewhat sensitive subject for sensible people.

I think the poster who focused on the idea of the unlikeliness of rapists also taking their victem to a hospital during war in their own country was terrifically insightful. This is something most of us probably couldn't have recognized until days after ruminating on the story. I'm certain that fact is crucial. It would have taken no effort for them to kill her and pitch her out where her dead companions lay, had they actually committed this unlikely act.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

166. I Know It's Accurate. I Know It's Not Against the Rules.

But I still think this title wins the "most distasteful" award, at least in my own recent memory.

DTH

[dutchdemocrat]

167. Apologies if I offended you

But the intention was to be provocative and though it was not the actual title and may be tasteless to some, it certainly portrays the slide to the extreme in which the Lynch story has evolved.

Her and her family must be horrified on this part of the new book. The Iraqi doctor who saved her life, says there was no evidence of rape.

Wag the Dog.

[populistmom]

169. If Lynch remembered this herself

I would have no problems believing what is alleged to have happened. However, is it beneath this administration and military powers to be to propagate a false story? I'll leave that to the rational and intelligent people here to answer that question for themselves.