West Wing Gaffe

[theivoryqueen]

Call me a purist but did it disturb anyone else that on last nights episode, the mention of "death tax" went unchallenged? The governor of Oklahoma said that the people in a small town ravaged by tornados had been barely hanging on for a long time what with all the taxes - and she specifically mentioned the "death tax". No rebuttal was made - which leads one to wonder if there isn't an insidious new message being projected. Most poor people will never face a "death tax". I love the show, but am watching it much more closely now that Aaron Sorkin isn't writing.

[bryant69]

1. Actually

The Estate Tax does hurt Farmers more than most other segments of society, just because the land passed on has a certain value.

I didn't watch the Episode (taped it) but I'm assuming that is why.

Bryant
Check it out -->http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[theivoryqueen]

2. Isn't there a special set of limits just for family farms?

In the estate and cap.gains tax code? Farms have their own sections and I think it only kicks in after reaching a certain monetary level - a really high figure in the millions. Plus there is the whole issue of subsidies....

[RandomUser]

3. You might be right

I'm not very knowledgeable on this issue, but that does make sense.

[bearfartinthewoods]

4. in the reruns. which i'm watching,

they just had a scene about the dem/pub name for the tax and the implications of same.

[MercutioATC]

5. Actually, the Estate Tax hurts wealthy people with "hobby ranches"

The vast majority of family farms are exempt because of their value.

[meegbear]

6. Actually ...

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8172

<snip>

If passed, estate tax repeal would enable the heirs of multi-millionaires and billionaires to keep an extra $161 billion in inherited fortunes by 2013 while adding to the deficit. Between 2014 and 2023, it would cost $820 billion in lost revenue.

<snip>

Estate tax repeal has a hallowed spot in their program. And they keep repeating discredited myths to justify its elimination, such as the canard that the estate tax forces farmers out of business.

At a June 17 press conference, Tom Bius from the National Farmers Union, which represents over 300,000 small farmers, called on Congress to "stop using farmers to front for complete estate tax repeal." The Farmers Union supports reforming the estate tax, but not repeal. The pro-repeal American Farm Bureau has not produced a single example of a farm lost because of the estate tax.

<snip>

[theivoryqueen]

10. Thank you - well said

But what had me up in arms was that there was no challenge to this overtly republican term (death tax) in west wings dialogue. Why would they include this inflammatory term and not examine it??

[Bandit]

7. It is a good sound bite but I challenge you to name one small family farm

that was lost due to inheritence tax. I have read where researchers have never been able to document a single case. As to the point about West Wing tilting right I have noticed it very plainly. It is almost to the point that I will no longer watch it.

[theivoryqueen]

15. Yes, I am upset by this new "direction'

And wonder if the timing of Sorkins departure was intentional. Not to be too paranoid or anything.....

[displacedtexan]

18. i agree!

if the new writers want to portray sniping and back biting, why don't they develop 'The Right Wing'? i want my idealistic 'west wing' back, which was based on rob reiner's 'an american president.'

[KittyWampus]

9. BOGUS_They Tried To Find A Family Farm Effected

by the Estate Tax and couldn't. It's is a purely bogus argument. Especially when you consider that most businesses small and large have things like ESTATE PLANNING so that the Estate Tax is irrelevant.

However, in regards the West Wing... he was talking to the woman in the midst of total devastation. And you could tell that Bartlett skipped a beat when she said it but held his tounge.

It was probably put in the dialouge to highlight he was going into a conservative area. You know, the areas that bitch about taxes but end up receiving a larger percent of them in Federal Programs.

[T Roosevelt]

12. Not true

Family farms have special exemptions, and the vast majority of them are passed on without problem. Even farmers admit it's not a problem. The whole issue is a smokescreen, just like everything else the repubs try to do...

http://www.iowafarmer.com/03/030118/harl.htm
http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/ra01/ratax.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0408-02.htm
http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/503/1/116/

More
http://www.opensecrets.org/newsletter/ce75/repeal.asp
http://www.landinstitute.org/vnews/display.v/ART/2002/07/10/3d2de7ea04fe5
http://www.ufenet.org/press/2001/estate_tax_nyt_farms.html
http://www.ctj.org/html/estbob.htm
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20030127&s=gates
http://www.cfra.org/newsroom/op_eds/Cost_Tax_Shelters.htm

[theivoryqueen]

13. Yup.

[lovedems]

17. If you read Corn's new book you would see that isn't true

it is the spin the republicans want you believe. According to Corn, he couldn't find a single farm that was lost due to the estate tax. Unfourtunately I don't have the book in front of me as someone borrowed it but maybe there is someone on DU who back up the argument who can reference the book.

Of course the extremely wealthy are the only ones who are effected by the estate tax. I am going out on a limb and guessing that maybe estate taxes are paid on estates over 3mill. Corn makes an excellent argument about it in is book.

[SharonAnn]

19. Study by a national farm association shows NO farms lost

because of estate taxes in more than last 20 (or more) years. NONE!

It's all BushCo lies.

I'm not home right now so I can't give link but you should be able to find it via Google, that's how I found it about 6 months ago.

[bmbmd]

25. My dear friends in West Texas

own a family sheep operation. When the old man's sister died, they sold about fifty per cent of the land to pay the estate taxes on the old woman's share. So-did they lose the ranch? No-they just lost half of it. Until that time, ranching provided a livelihood for the entire family. Now, the kids are working elsewhere. The younger son lost his house to the sale.

[vision]

26. did they do estate planning?

With estate planning almost 2 million was allowed to be defered from taxes. It also had a provision if the farm was kept in the family for ten years most of the taxes were defered.

I don't know the details of your friends ranch but the law was not intended to harm family industries. Does it happen? Yeah it does at time but throwing out the baby allowing the rich like Bush to pass on millions to thier offspring without pay taxes is wrong. If, for instance, much of that money was made off dividands, which taxes were recently ended, than they have paid almost zero taxes on that money.

[snippy]

37. I am surprised that the republicans can never find a farm family harmed

by the estate tax when asked to do so.

[zbdent]

23. I think that the only "family farm" that was affected by the "death"

tax (which saw the phase-in amount raised this or last year) was that family beef ranch, which owned a sizeable chunk of the Island of Hawai'i.

Mainly, it was the land value, not the farm itself. You see, the Patriarch died, and all the families were trying to avoid having to give up all that "death tax" on the land that they inherited.

Mind you, once they get this all settled, you'll probably see a ton of development there for homes/condos for the extremely wealthy.

[The White Rose]

24. Just so you know.

In 1998, of the approximately 2.3 million deaths in the US, around 47,000 estates actually paid estate taxes. Of those 47,000, less than 1,500 estates involved family owned farms or businesses. The RW propaganda about "death taxes" disproportionately affecting the small farmer and business owner is BS of the first order.

[T Roosevelt]

8. I did catch that, but they've done it before

Season 3:
Ways and Means
"...the President is in a political bind as he decides whether or not to push for the repeal of the estate tax -- or 'the death tax,' as labeled by his savvy rivals..."

On the Day Before
"...President Bartlet boldly vetoes the 'death tax' bill but his staff must hustle when they are surprised to learn that the House of Representatives have enough votes to immediately override the veto..."

I believe that the first of these two had Josh trying to deal with someone from the Congressional Black Caucus to support the estate tax - the whole segment twisted the facts and tried to make it seem that lots of families, including black families, would lose millions because of the estate tax, which as we know is total BS. So this was present under Sorkin...

[theivoryqueen]

11. but in context, there was at least some examination of the term

[RetroLounge]

14. Guess you weren't watching too closely

Bartlett rolled his eyes and said "Oh God, here we go again..." or words to that effect.

A monologue on the death-tax at that point would NOT have moved the storyline anywhere.

Sorry.

[theivoryqueen]

16. He said "oh, That..." and asked what the average income was

and that was it. I guess it's a small point, but I wondered that more wasn't made of it, with legislation being reviewed to change this "death tax" right now.

[Brian Sweat]

20. This was a very realistic scene to me

It showed a Republican that could not pass up an opportunity to spout propogranda and a Democrat that realized that it was not the proper time to call her on it.

[theivoryqueen]

21. Okay - good point

[OKNancy]

40. I didn't see the show but the governor of Oklahoma

is not a Republican and not a woman....so there!!!!

[grasswire]

31. yeah, I caught that

His opinion on the death tax was implied. It was a quick exchange, though.

I'm wondering how people who don't follow politics could understand half the dialogue on the show, let alone the inferences.

[Zero Gravitas]

22. "The President is AWOL" line

had me laughing :)

At least he is not a DESERTER!

[West Coast Democrat]

27. The "New" West Wing is Unpleasant to Watch

the whole tone of it is dark, humorless and pessimistic. It may be more "realistic" or whatever, but it's no fun to watch anymore.

[onecitizen]

28. You know Xanthas..........

I agree with you. I keep holding on thinking that it will get better but I saw them portraying Bartlet as weak and indecisive. Maybe it's just my paranoia but the show has lost "it". That "it" that had me coming back each week and clearing my calender to do it. So sad.

[MaineDem]

30. I agree totally

I still watch it but the enjoyment is fading each week. I hope it's just the storyline and things will get resolved when the characters deal with their issues.

[PBinOregon]

29. Big Sigh

I used to look forward to new episodes, but I have to agree that "West Wing" is going in a lame direction. They decided, for some godawful reason, to bring Republican consultants into the process, to make in less partisan, I suppose. Their fingerprints are all over the show now, and it has lost the creative snap and passion it used to have.

[grasswire]

32. hmm, I disagree

I think it is better written now. Sorkin had this habit of filling time with empty dialogue. There used to be a "thing" in every show. Characters would walk around asking if the others knew about the "thing." It seemed like they spent half the hour walking around, talking about the thing of the day.

We may not like where the show takes us politically, but it is not the purpose of entertainment to politicize, and the change in direction does not reflect on the skill of the writers-producers.

[Cheswick2.0]

38. "it is not the purpose of entertainment to politicize"

what is that, a rule or something? Why can't a show about the whitehouse politicise? God Forbid we ever hear a liberal view point.

I hate freaking republicans, they aren't funny, they aren't creative and they should not be allowed near a script of any type.

[Shakespeare]

33. Not exactly unchallenged...

Bartlett's reaction was to immediately roll his eyes as if to say "oh, please..." and give her a hard time about it. Maybe that was too subtle, but I think they got the point across nicely.

edited for typo

[Nailzberg]

34. The reason families lose farms is corporate farming, not taxes

And it's a shame.

[burythehatchet]

35. I used to love that show

I watched it last night and it really sucked. I actually turned it off half way through. I guess there's been some changes.

[Demonaut]

36. Death Tax is a Joke

No one in the conventional media has ever explained the meaning of the Death Tax, I had to spend time on the net to find the truth, Initially i thought it would apply to me as I'm sure most of the public does. Crap, why would you want a Tax on the poor and middle class that would essentially strip thier family of half thier assets. HOW UNFAIR!!! But no, the truth is it only applies to those with assets in excess of TWO MILLION DOLLARS. What a fucking joke...what a fucking mislead....THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER...Warren Buffet and Bill Gates agree this tax is needed..that the reason it exists is to limit the accumulation of wealth

[T Roosevelt]

39. That is exactly it

They sell everything by making it sound like "this could happen to YOU"...of course that's why lotteries sell lots and lots of tickets, and why OJ was found not guilty, and why everyone thought Gore was a liar - no one understands the numbers or looks for the facts.