Paul Krugman on Dean & Dems: Flags Versus Dollars

[RevolutionStartsNow]

Howard Dean's remarks about the need to appeal to white Southerners could certainly have been better phrased. But his rivals for the Democratic nomination should be ashamed of their reaction. They know what he was trying to say — and it wasn't that his party should go soft on racism. By playing gotcha, by seizing on the chance to take the front-runner down a peg, they damaged the cause they claim to serve — and missed a chance to confront the real issue he raised.

--snip--

Mr. Dean wasn't suggesting that his party adopt the G.O.P. strategy of coded racial signals, and by and large African- Americans — my wife included — understand that. What he meant by his flag remark was that Democrats must make the case to working Americans of all colors that the right's elitist agenda isn't in their interest. And he's right.

-------

The entire article is a good read, including about the elections this week.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/07/opinion/07KRUG.html

[Dr.Phool]

1. Deans Remarks

The majority of the candidates just don't get it!

Dean wasn't endorsing the Confederate flag, but was trying to push the idea that we have to reach out to the voters in that segment of the population. Explain to Joe Sixpack with his Confederate flag on his pick-up that by voting Repukican, he's voting against his own self interest. Explain how voting Democratic is in his or her best interest.

We need one or two of those states to throw Bush out of office!

I think it's about time for at least half of the people on that stage to withdraw, and stop attacking the rest.

[jeter]

15. The majority of people here on DU don't get it either

They see it, as Krugman wrote, as an opportunity "to bring down the frontrunner a peg or two" and meanwhile they attack southern whites and poor. Blaming it all on right-wing talk radio. But the truth is it is their own fault. They seem like snobs, not interested in the plight of people with a different cultural background than theirs.

The reason many people listen to right wing drivel is because they feel abandoned by the Democratic Party. The moment someone in the party tries to reach out to them, and argue that their interests are our interests, that person is gang attacked by the herd - all desperate to get some traction in this race - as a racist.

To me, what happened this week underscored the Democratic Party's greatest challenge, in this election year and beyond. The need to become inclusive again and become the party of all the people and not only the special interests.

[KittyWampus]

39. Many Of Us DU'ers See Dean As A Liability

And it's NOT knocking down the frontrunner a peg or two.

It's about getting the strongest candidate who can win after polling at a consistent 55% so there's no MOE.

It is NOT about getting a candidate who provides red for Rove.

Dean's comments are liabilities... not well thought out to the point of being thoughtless.

I dislike the way the other Dem Candidates confronted Dean with their criticism but they had a valid point.

They just were as ham-handed as Dean in bringing it to the fore.

[newyawker99]

23. Hi rrrick51!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[billbuckhead]

2. It was phrased correctly.Dean used the Confderate flag as a marketing tool

to reach out to racists and other reactionary elements in our culture to lure them to come vote for him in the primary. "Vote for the guy who had the gonads to say it's ok ,wink, wink, to still put the Confederate flag on the pickup truck." I guess Dean thought putting an NRA sticker on the truck would be too blantantly racist. He's been cunducting this Kulturwar for months like a stand-in for Charlton Heston. Finally, people in other campaigns actually started listening to his BS and called him on it. Now he gets to be the racist candidate and the non-racist candidate at the same time. No wonder Republicans love Dean , now by default they also get to be racist and non-racist at the same time.

[Supply Side Jesus]

3. lmao....Kulturwar...

thats great. funny stuff. thanx for the laugh.

[CWebster]

25. Garbage

Did you even read the column?

Dean was deliberately indicating those Southerners- who were targeted by Republican efforts to use racism (confederate flag) and other divisive ploys for political ends that do not serve the needs of those targeted.

[RetroLounge]

29. Perfect example of those who don't get it.

So who you gonna believe?

So now you say Krugman is wrong too?

[DrFunkenstein]

4. Trent Lott Misspoke, Too

Just because you didn't mean it the way it came out, doesn't make you less of an ass for saying it.

Note to Flaming Deanies: I'm NOT saying Dean is a racist. Get off your high roach.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CWebster]

26. that what was you point Funkenstein

That Republicans do not make use of racist symbols and codewords to exploit ignorance for their own benefit?

Kerry knows that and he can shove it.

[RetroLounge]

30. "doesn't make you less of an ass for saying it."

Thanks for being the example

[Hep]

34. I could have sworn

this thread was about Dean. Now it's about Trent Lott?

What do the two situations have in common? NOTHING.

Note to Anti-Dean Flamers *cough* Dr. *cough*:

You ARE comparing what dean said to what Lott said. It's a silly thing to do. Get a real argument.

[rucky]

5. Symbols are for Dingbats

sorry. bad computer geek humor.

[DrFunkenstein]

7. "I'll Leave Symbols To The Symbol-Minded"

God Bless George Carlin.

[DrFunkenstein]

6. I Prefer Where Krug Argues For Kerry's Tax-Cut Plan

(I)f a Democratic candidate proposes a total rollback of the Bush tax cuts, he'll be offering an easy target: administration spokespeople will be able to provide reporters with carefully chosen examples of middle-income families who would lose $1,500 or $2,000 a year from tax-cut repeal. By leaving the child tax credits and the cutout in place while proposing to repeal the rest, contenders will recapture most of the revenue lost because of the tax cuts, while making the job of the administration propagandists that much harder.

Purists will raise two objections. The first is that an incomplete rollback of the Bush tax cuts won't be enough to restore long-run solvency. In fact, even a full rollback wouldn't be enough. According to my rough calculations, keeping the child credits and the cutout while rolling back the rest would close only about half the fiscal gap. But it would be a lot better than current policy.

The other objection is that the tricks used to sell the Bush tax cuts have made an already messy tax system, full of special breaks for particular classes of taxpayers, even messier. Shouldn't we favor a reform that cleans it up?

In principle, the answer is yes. But an ambitious reform plan would be demagogued and portrayed as a tax increase for the middle class. My guess is that we should propose a selective rollback as the first step, with broader reform to follow.

Will someone be able to find the political sweet spot, the combination of fiscal responsibility and electoral smarts that brings the looting to an end? The future of the nation depends on the answer.

http://truthout.org/docs_03/101803I.shtml

[virtualobserver]

8. I am so embarrassed by Washington Democrats

The only people who saw "coded racial signals" in Dean's words were those who were already anti-dean and wanted to believe that.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. All I ever saw was a very base stereotype

made by a very boorish politican.

[virtualobserver]

10. have you ever lived in the South.....?

Just curious.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

12. And no doubt his opponents are already searching for the next thing

to nail him on. Dean's my guy, but he speaks off the cuff, and I expect him to get in trouble again.

So let them fire away.

Meanwhile, Dean will saunter off with the big Union endorsements.

[billbuckhead]

13. The confederate flag is a trademark for racism. If that's not code, what

The confederate flag is basically a trademark for racism. If that's not code, what is? Dean could have put any other flag on there, but has for months now put the Confederate flag on that now famous truck ahead of the American flag, football teams flags and stickers, NASCAR stickers, the NRA...........Mmmmmmmmmmmm...NRA, maybe Dean was scared to put the NRA sticker on the truck. That would be too blantant,too controversial, someone might confuse his views with NRA board members Ted Nugent or Grover Norquist. I guess Dean decided the ConFlag was less racist than the NRA sticker.

[kodi]

14. yeap, if he had said just "rifle racks" instead.

social security is not the third rail of american politics, it is race. dean stepped on it by having his mouth move faster than his brain.


he will get no votes from the rebel flag decal types, but his remarks will force moderate people to scrutinize him more closely than they would have before supporting him.

i have watched dean now for the last few days and it looks like he is under severe strain and the causal way he carried himself months a go is gone. he looks a bit scared, and perhaps a bit scarred.

[billbuckhead]

16. But what about how spinDoctor Dean played minority groups?

Why couldn't he have said "Healthcare for all Americans regardless of race?'. There's something very insincere about all this. Now the Dean collective says "well, he's been saying this for 11 months" as if that is some justification. It's as if they expect others to enforce good citizenship. No one in the Dean campaign must have thought this symbol offensive, perhaps because of the NRA influence on the campaign is even more odious.

[RetroLounge]

31. and the desperation continues

and Dean gets another Union endorsement.

Must really piss you off...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. I pretty much agree with this

There are so many things to criticize Dean about, and I've been doing it consistently for a year. The idea that Dean could get the votes of southern white males with rebel flag stickers on their pick-up trucks is funny. You go Dean!

Seriously, piling up on Dean because he's a completely out of touch rich Yalie from the Northeast, who has probably never seen either a black person nor a southern white male with a rebel flag sticker on his pick-up truck is a cheap shot, like getting upset at Bush because he doesn't know where Khazakistan is - what did you expect? Leave the poor guy alone!

Dean is no bigot and no racist, and it doesn't do any of us any good to pick on him for this.

Clark/Kucinich 2004 (as if that's so much crazier than Dean/Clark?)

[dajabr]

18. Because they also attended Yale...

Do Dean's 2 African American room mates not count in your summation?

[dsc]

20. In addition to the year he lived

and worked on a ranch with Cuban emigrees. But since when have Dean bashers ever bothered to research their posts.

[CWebster]

27. it seems like they didn't even bother to read Krugman's column

They just thought,"Oh, another Dean-bashing thread".

[Flaming Meaux]

35. Somebody tell me...

...how you minister to sinners without talking about sin. A very wise man had something to say about this about 2000 years ago, something about ministering to the already converted being a waste of effort. Wanna lose? Keep preaching to the same old choir.

[depakid]

19. As usual, Krugman's talking sense

Too bad that it will fall on deaf ears among the Dean bashers, because the issue Dean is trying to confront is one that confronts all of us- especially the southerners whose states continue to send dispicable representatives to Washington. Now, I'm not trying to trash the south- the region is not without its charms and islands of sanity, though it's not my cup of tea (I prefer mine green).

Unfortunately, all of my family lives there so I'm compelled to visit from time to time and whenever I do, issues like the ones Dean & Krugman raise come up. I'll be damned if everytime I'm there I don't hear some derogatory racial remarks (increasingly about hispanics) or have to listen to someone's harping about so called "family values" and other right wing memes. It's especially frustrating because a lot of times, I'm hearing this from otherwise decent, likable and supposed educated folks with dergrees from places like NC State or Auburn. Sometimes I can get them to listen, but being a westerner from the liberal gommorah of Portland, Oregon- as often as not I get brushed off.

Finding common ground with southerners like these is critical, although at times it seems hopeless. It's like their reasoning process is short-circuited and they just can't get passed certain preconceived (and frequently reinforced) ideas and prejudices. Breaking down these dysfunctional beliefs isn't going to be easy, but it has to start somewhere, for all our sakes.

[evil_orange_cat]

32. I agree... read his book, too... "The Great Unraveling"

Krugman is a great columnist. He always seems to be saying exactly what I feel. And he's been consistently on track about the economy since the late 90's and the bubble.

I recommend everyone read his book, "The Great Unraveling". It paints an accurate picture of what has happened to our country since the boom in the 90's and since the Bush junta took over. He describes the radical right as a "revolutionary force" that "doesn't recognize the legitimacy of our current political system".

Very good stuff for progressives to read.

[WillyBrandt]

21. Picture of Krugman in France, the mentioned wife

From his web page

http://www.wws.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/enemyvac.html

In France...



In France w/ wife...



Is it wrong for me to point out that she's a bit of a looker? Wowza!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

22. Giant pictures!

But they do look like the kind of people I'd like to sit down with...on the other hand, Krugman has received death threats, so maybe I'd want to sit somewhere else.

[CWebster]

24. exceptional column

.

[incapsulated]

28. Oh, for chrissakes...

I admire Krugman but this is total bs:

They know what he was trying to say — and it wasn't that his party should go soft on racism. By playing gotcha, by seizing on the chance to take the front-runner down a peg, they damaged the cause they claim to serve — and missed a chance to confront the real issue he raised.

Guess what, it's called a campaign for a reason. It's war and these are his opponants. Dean should know, he's been playing "gotcha" and going on the attack against his rivals for months, now. And some of them have been talking far more eloquently, and for far longer, about racial issues than Mr. Dean.

He could have brought up some great racial discussion without bringing up such a painful and divisive symbol. He was stupid and he got whipped for it. Welcome to the big leagues. Didn't Sharpton say he didn't think he was a bigot, just a big mouth?

Now he's supposed to be the next Dr. King or something, please. He was talking about the NRA the last time he brought that damn flag remark up, not the NAACP.

[CWebster]

36. This is like the comparisons of Dean to Bush or Lott

those pieces of shit orchestrated an attack based on a twisted interpretation. Dean attacked based on their support of Bush.

Apples and oranges.

[deutsey]

33. My admiration for Paul continues to grow

:thumbsup:

[Ripley]

37. Sharpton and Edwards will dive in the polls for their theatrics.

Are they both fighting over the black vote? :crazy:

It was very transparent to my apolitical spouse that they were trying to obfuscate.

[DemNoir]

38. I say bravo to Dean's remarks

The Doctor's remarks show that he actually understands the problem the Democratics are facing, and has the guts to come out and say it. It appears must of the other candidates dont get it and if they did wouldnt have the courage to confront it.

Dean has proven time and again he is the only one that is tough enough to take on the thugocracy.