The RFK Presidency.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

I have a sneaking suspicion that 1968 was a turning point in US politics. If Bobby had lived, do you think he would have been elected? He was late in the game, but I think he would have won the nom and beaten Nixon. How would Bobby have fared as President? I see him as surpassing his brother and bringing a less messy end to Vietnam, along with harnessing some of the optimism of 1967 that otherwise dissipated so quickly during the Nixon Administration. For me, Nixon's victory in 1968 changed the face of US politics, with repercussions today. What do DUers think on this subject? It is of course futile to play 'what if', but I always find myself thinking of Bobby's death.

[deutsey]

1. I think you're right

It's easy to idealize Bobby, but he was uniting a broad coalition of Americans that could have stopped Nixon and spared us all the nightmare that followed.

It's kind of related to what you're saying here, but here's something I wrote for DU comparing RFK and Bush:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/07/27_rfk.html

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. Great Article.

RFK's Assassination is most shocking of all (JFK, MLK, RFK). I really get the feeling he was on the cusp of something huge. That's what's most galling.

[bobbieinok]

2. I remember 1968 very well

I was married and in grad school in CA.

There was A LOT of suspicion of RFK among liberal academics and a lot of resentment.

RFK let Eugene McCarthy test the water and then jumped in, a johnny-come-lately.

There were lots of questions, but I'm sure he'd have been a much stronger nominee than Humphrey.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. Yeah. We must not forget Eugene McCarthy.

His excellent campaign was swamped by RFK. Politics is a nasty business.

[kodi]

4. of all sad words of tongue or pen the saddest are these"it might have been

from john greenleaf whittier's "maud miller."

[Minstrel Boy]

6. "Now I realized what makes our generation unique,

what defines us apart from those who came before the hopeful winter of 1961, and those who came after the murderous spring of 1968. We are the first generation that learned from experience...that things were not really getting better, that we shall not overcome. We felt, by the time we reached thirty, that we had already glimpsed the most compassionate leaders our nation could produce, and they had all been assassinated. And from this time forward, things would get worse: our best political leaders were part of memory now, not hope. The stone was at the bottom of the hill and we were alone."
- Jack Newfield, Robert F. Kennedy: A Memoir

[T Wolf]

7. I agree

I was only 11 when JFK was killed.

I was 16 and fully into anti-war politics when Bobby was killed. The personal loss was something that deeply touched many of us, especially we teenagers who were just becoming politically aware. The optimistic feeling that we had was crushed that weekend and has never fully returned. The cynicism only grew as we suffered through the Nixon years.

I do think he would have beaten Tricky Dick. He would definitely have gotten us out of Vietnam sooner and better. The other positive changes that would have flowed from his leadership cannot be fully appreciated. We don't even know what good we could have accomplished.

As for the "face of US politics," I also agree that things have gone downhill since then. The culmination of this slide is the sorry state we find ourselves in today.

Martin, Bobby, Kent State, Jackson State. It was over that short period of time that we learned to what depths conservatives would sink to grab and hold power. I also think it 'scared' the shit out of much of the progressive movement, leaving only the hard-core activists who were willing to go further to fight the 'system' than most of America.

Whether 1968 (and '69) was the beginning of the end of progress in the experiment in Democracy is a little hard to determine just yet. but, I am afraid that it was.

**Note** If you want to indulge in a little a 'what-if' fantasy, take a look at the movie Time Quest (2002). Synopsis:

A time-traveller from the future travels back to Fort Worth, Texas on November 22, 1963 and prevents the assassination of John F. Kennedy, thus changing the course of world history.

It is uplifting as well as very saddening. As they say, "The saddest words are 'what might have been.'"

[Screaming Lord Byron]

8. You know, the more I think about it, maybe our problems go back to '68

Maybe todays events are still being influenced by these events.

[Eloriel]

11. Try 1963. Or better yet,

Prescott Bush and the Nazis -- and before him Samuel Bush, war profiteer par excellence.

There's an unbroken line of fascist influence and infiltration from way back then. The birth of the CIA gave them inordinate power. I have often said that the assassination of JFK was our "last chance" to defeat them. But in actuality, we did have other chances, and blew them too -- BCCI, IranContra, S&L. We blew them all.

Eloriel

[PAMod]

9. I think Humphrey would have been the nominee...

simply because he had the backing of the party regulars, who controlled the delegate process in 1968. HHH would have wanted to reach out to Bobby for Veep, but LBJ would not have permitted it. The Democratic Party might have taken its last breath if that were the scenario.

RFK would have been elected, however, had he been able to upset Humphrey for the nomination. He would not have been bound by LBJ's actions and Nixon would have been in paranoia hell running against "the Kennedy's" again.

I like playing "what if?". Had RFK been elected, our recent history certainly would have been brighter. Without the negativity and criminality of Nixon, characters like Carter & therefore Reagan would never have made the rise to the White House. Changes a lot of things, doesn't it!?

I'm not sure what kind of president RFK would have been, other than good for the common man. His unique brand of populism might have given him trouble in congress, however; depending, of course, on his margin of victory.

I wonder who Bobby's running mate would have been!

[birdman]

10. He was unlikely to have gotten the nomination

He was well behind in delegates and there were no
primaries left in which he could have gotten many
more. The convention was stacked for Humphrey who
never entered a single primary. I think he would
have beaten Nixon in a hypothetical general election
(the Kennedy mystique would have killed the Tricky One)
but barring a miraculous shift in delegates (and LBJ
had outlawed miracles) he would never have gotten the chance.

[jeter]

12. It's not certain he would have won the nomination

You must remember that before the California Primary (the day he was shot) he was actually in third place in delegates, behind Humphrey and McCarthy.

That is why California is often refered to as the "crucial primary" in 1968. Had he lost it, he would have been finished.

But he won. New York was next, and he certainly would have won that one too, being a Senator from New York and all. Winning the primaries in the two largest states would have been a huge boost. But it still would not have been enough for him to win the nomination. His only hope would have been to stop Humphrey on a first ballot and have McCarthy throw his support to him. Then convince labor (who was no real fan of Bobby's) and cities to support him.

Not a slam dunk, but doable.

Then he would have faced Richard Nixon. Nixon led Humphrey and Kennedy in the polls in 1968. Mind you that this was in June before the convention and RFK surely would've gotten a "bounce" just like anyone else. But there is no way that Kennedy would have won the south. Not with his Civil Rights record and Wallace in the race. The south was cruicial for the Democrats to win then. Nixon was from California and Reagan was then its Governor, so it is entirely possible that Kennedy would not have carried California either.

Texas, another Democratic state then, probably would not have supported him since LBJ hated Kennedy with a passion and probably would have prefered Nixon to him. The whole JFK being shot in Dallas may have had an effect. Texans voting for his brother for what happened. But that too is uncertain.

Johnson also would have been unlikely to pause the bombing, as he had in October, which created a last minute surge of support for Humphrey and almost carried him over the top. He really hated Kennedy.

So to say Bobby was a shoein for President in 1968 is a big stretch.

But I agree that he would have been the best President ever.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

13. I'm definitely not saying he was a shoe-in,

I think Kennedy Momentum was gathering. I think he could have won through. I'm no expert, of course, the odds were stacked against him.