Diebold will allow BFEE to choose the Dem nominee they want to run against

[ElementaryPenguin]

If touch screen is in use during the primaries, the Repuke BFEE operatives can, and most certainly will hack-in to manipulate the results. Can we expect unexpectedly strong showings from Holy Joe and Al Sharpton? Perhaps they won't be quite as obvious as that, but they certainly would seem likely to do their best to thwart Clark - whom they seem to fear tremendously. Given a choice between facing Dean and Clark, they would prefer to face Dean - but...well, they'd probably like facing Kerry even more! The dark horse BFEE pick might very well be Dick Gephardt - who they would really love as the DNC approved Dem nominee.

Yesterday, Howard Dean said that the voting machine issue was going to be something they would strongly address AFTER he received the nomination. This will be but a scant few months before the general election, and by that time most all of the decisions regarding the method of voting will have already been made! We simply don't have the luxury of waiting that long. This incredibly crucial issue MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW - and we need to drive this point home with all of the Dem campaigns!! Call Dean's people! Call Clark's people! We need to make a big stink about this - NOW!!!!

[mrgorth]

1. resistance is futile

Clark and Dean's people know about it. We need to contact newspapers, TV stations every local politician we can get our hands on, county and state dem committees. This HAS to be news.

[ElementaryPenguin]

2. The L.A. Times has sure done a great job of avoiding this topic!!

And it really fucking pisses me off!!!

[birdman]

3. BFEE causes Democrats to nominate Gary Leon Ridgway

In a surprise development mass killer Gary Leon Ridgway
who has admitted to murder of dozens of prostitutes swept
through the Democratic primaries this Spring and has more than
enough delegates for a first ballot nomination. Ridgway will
be the first admitted serial killer nominated by a major party
to run for President.

I think you need some of this stuff.

[ElementaryPenguin]

6. I've got plenty in stock, thanks. Hadn't thought of that serial killer

Scenario! Charles Manson might be someone else that the GOP would feel confident they might be able to beat.

[Minstrel Boy]

23. I'd like to see a Manson candidacy.

"We Are Family" would be a great campaign song.

[ElementaryPenguin]

24. That's sick - but I did LOL!!

eom

[nannygoat]

27. I bet he'd appeal to a lot of repukes...

[leftchick]

4. oooh EP, I have been worrying about this for a while now....

I think their choice is Gephardt. At least Dean brought up the Diebold/boosh contoversy on the CBS morning show on Tuesday. Now how about the rest of the "journalists" and candidates out there?!?

[John_H]

5. Which early primary states use Diebold machines?

Iowa obviously won't come into play because they caucus. Do NH, SC, etc use diebold machines?

If not, why the spaz?

I'm terribly concerned about BBV, but this the-sky-is-falling routine continually employed by folks around here hurts the cause by making us look like paranoid schizos.

I thiose early staes use diebold boxes, I stand corrected.

[ElementaryPenguin]

11. I don't think one can possibly be too paranoid about VOTER FRAUD!!

It only means the end of our democracy!!!

[Eloriel]

31. You're being myopic if you think only "Diebold"

Diebold happens to be the one we have the most info about. But by no means the only corporate-owned, easily manipulable voting system out there. And don't forget optical scans. They use software too. Up to 40-% of FL voters in 2000 voted on optical scan machines with Diebold software.

Eloriel

[ElementaryPenguin]

32. I know, that is a good point. Just used Diebold as the most

Recognizeable name for the subject line! All on-line voting - and optical scanners need to be banned - unless there is a completely verifiable paper trail, correct?! I say just mark a piece of paper for Christsake - don't they do that in Canada - and much of Europe?

[Octafish]

7. You're right, EP. They want Dean.

That way, in November 2004, Ho-Ho would get clobbered by Smirk "fair and square" with chad-less BBV.

[Cocoa]

9. that's right

if Dean wins, we should be very suspicious.

[ShimokitaJer]

14. Whereas, if Kerry wins we should accept the results?

Dean wins = foul play; Anybody else wins = fair election That sounds a lot like the Republican strategy in Florida.

Oh, that's right. Aren't you the same guy who told me Dean's fundraising success was due to Repubs "stuffing the ballot box" with money?

An active fantasy life is no way to win elections, Cocoa

[Cocoa]

18. you're right, this is faulty thinking

the game can be played any way you choose, depending on whom you support.

[Bombtrack]

8. They want to run against Dean

if that hasn't been made abundently clear to you by now you're not paying attention

[Capn Sunshine]

10. They have made YOU think they want to run against Dean

when the reality is the Dean movement and all it represents to democracy is what they really, truly fear.

2 million people. 100 dollars each.
4 million people ; 50 dollars each
8 million people; 25 dollars each.

THIS is what they truly fear, and your repetition of their talking points won't change that.

[Cocoa]

12. they have made YOU think they fear Dean

they have built up the Dean movement into more than it is, including encouraging republicans to donate to him.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. ok............what part of "Record breaking fundraising "

do you not get? Such specious BS is highly suspect. More than it is?

So it's Republican operatives that are registering to vote Democrat at every meetup then? Our one Meetup has registered over 100 Greens, indies and..yes...ex republicans.

Multiply that by the 35,000 Dean Meetups happening worldwide.

Damn, that Karl Rove is effective.

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. Good point, Capn. Bushiviks certainly don't like the grassroot thing

That Dean has got goin' on! Smells waaaaay to much like a real democracy may actually be taking root here! And that is scary stuff indeed for a fascist regime!

[ShimokitaJer]

16. It's not just the Bushies, it's the DLC too

Anybody who has a fast track to the corporate money is worried about an alternative that doesn't involve them. Damned voters always getting in the way of their democracy.

[ElementaryPenguin]

15. Funny how this thread devolves into a Dean vs. Clark war - I love both!!

We can't have enough viable candidates to fight the BFEE/PNAC Mob!! Lord only knows what kind of foul shit these monsters are willing to pull in order to stay in power!!

Go Dean/Clark Clark/Dean Dean/Clark Clark/Dean!!!

[ShimokitaJer]

17. Who mentioned Clark? nt

[ElementaryPenguin]

19. Oops! I guess I did. Sorry!

eom

[Cocoa]

20. no one mentioned Clark

just looking for a fight, and Clark supporters can be counted on to oblige.

[GiovanniC]

21. Why Bother?

Diebold can make BFEE win no matter who they're against anyway.

[ElementaryPenguin]

22. That's why we've got to make the public realize they must be abolished

Altogether!! This nation, this planet simply cannot survive another term of the Evil Warmongering Bushiviks! They are just itching to nuke somebody and the environment is already in too precarious a state to take much more of their assaults!! (The world's phytoplankton (which supplies more than 50% of the earth's oxygen) dying off is one incredibly bad sign!)

[GiovanniC]

33. I Agree, But the Point I Was Making Was...

Why would Diebold/BFEE even BOTHER to screw with the Democratic nominations? They don't need to.

It increases the risks of them getting caught without adding any substantial value to them.

[ElementaryPenguin]

34. The Bushiviks leave NOTHING to chance. If they feel there chances are

Better with one opponent over another - you can rest assured they will do all they can to manipulate the result! That's just the way this gang operates!

[Eloriel]

25. Here's what Dean said

in the Washington Post chat yesterday (unless you have another comment and if so, please share):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58372-2003Nov3.html

Melbourne, Australia: Governor Dean,

I am an American living in Australia and am a supporter of your candidacy. I have been very disturbed to read the various stories about the security concerns surrounding the makers of electronic voting machines being used increasingly in our elections. Most alarming have been the allegations surrounding Diebold Election Systems and their attacks on those who have questioned their products and their behavior. Could you please discuss your feelings on this matter, the implications you think it has on our democracy, and what you would propose be done to address it?

Thank you and good luck.

Howard Dean: The chairman of Diebold has sent a letter saying that he will do everything he can to get Bush reelected. This does not engender confidence in the American electoral system. If I become the Democratic nominee we will have teams, particularly in jurisdictions like Florida, who will be conducting poll watching activities to prevent the kind of Republican abuses that took place in the last election. We will do more work on the voting machine issue as the campaign moves along.

Eloriel

[ElementaryPenguin]

29. It's a very good start, and Dean is on it - but it sounds as if most

of the work he plans to do addressing it would be AFTER he is nominated.

[lysergik]

26. Then do something about it. Details inside.

Go to verifiedvoting.org and volunteer.

Call the legislators that are stalling on co-sponsoring Rush Holt's HR2239 which would call for accountability and a voter verified paper "trail" (ballot would be better english since ballots are legally binding, intangible documents a receipt is not)

This is a NON PARTISAN issue, it affects everyone who is eligible to vote.

Join the activism at blackboxvoting.org and share/get ideas on how to solve this problem.

Technology needs to be embraced, but it needs to be done the right way with safeguards put in place and voter verifiable paper ballots and not banking on the word of some big business who happens to have strong ties to the reich wing. But with the knowledge we have anyone can get into these machines and cause havok.

[ElementaryPenguin]

30. Truly excellent post, comrade!

Thanks!

[DUreader]

35. kick for positive action