Susan Sarandon "disappointed" in Hillary...

[onehandle]

Susan Sarandon says she's disappointed in Sen. Hillary Clinton, who she says "turned out to be just another politician ... The only thing she's going to be remembered for is standing by her man, and that is really sad"

http://www.salon.com/ent/col/fix/2003/11/07/fri/index.html
________

Hey Susan, Maybe you shouldn't have supported Ralph Nader for the White House. Maybe then, Hillary could be doing more. Do you think?

What will you be remembered for?

[funkyflathead]

1. LOL!

Hillary has done more for this country than Sarandon will ever do!

[ShaneGR]

2. Hey Susan, she's a first term Senator....

First "First-Lady" ever to be elected to congress. I really want to like Susan, but that is just a stupid comment.

[AWD]

5. BTW

LOVE your Tenacious D sig picture!

[xultar]

6. OK Susan...now go find a rock and go back to sleep...

That was uncalled for, nasty and quite rude. Susan is beginning to get on my nerves.

[Kahuna]

23. I like Susan. I just don't agree with her on very much....

:shrug: And you're right. Hillary is a very accomplished woman and that was a sad remark by Susan.

[Cooley Hurd]

71. Wonderboy!!!!

...what is the secret of your powers?

[Some Moran]

3. So is Malloy...

And nobody bashes him for it...lol...

[CWebster]

4. Sarandon will be remembered for

Telling it like it is.

[Kahuna]

25. She will be seen as telling it like she sees it..

It very arrogant for anyone to say how they "see it" is how "it is." Comprende? That's like if you say the rug is black and I say it's blue. And you argue with me all night long that it's blue because...you know, you're eyes are better than mine. Except, how do you know your eyes are better?

[CWebster]

44. Oh, I am sorry, are you telling me how it is?

I guess if the rug is blue, the rug is blue. What would be the point of debating on it? Do you know Hillary's record? Bet you don't. I bet you don't even know the color of the rug.

Capiche?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. She thinks Mumia is innocent

who cares what she thinks.

[latebloomer]

28. Maybe she thinks he was entitled

to a fair trial.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

9. Ya know, Susan lost me during Election 2000.

I always enjoyed her thoughful views, but I vividly remember an appearance as a pro-Nader panel member, with Michael Moore, I think, on one of the afternoon talk shows, maybe Oprah. Anyhow, someone in the audience asked her if, as a pro-choice woman, she was concerned that Nader voters would pull enough votes away from Gore to allow Bush, a firm anti-choice candidate, to become president.

She was aloof, and said something to the effect of, "They'll never take your rights to choice away. I know my sisters would never allow that to happen, and would take to the streets."

I couldn't believe that such an intelligent, compassionate woman never realized the real-world political impact of what she was begging women to do... not vote for Gore, that is.

[mhr]

10. I'm Disappointed in Her as Well, Voted For The War, Voted For 87 Billion

eom

[realFedUp]

11. Is there a specific reason Sarandon is disappointed?

This is a pay to read site...what's the rest of the
article?

[PVnRT]

12. Well, here we go

Another "You-suck-because-you-supported-Nader" thread. I'm surprised it's not a flamefest yet. Just wait.

[IrateCitizen]

19. The pathology is amazing, isn't it?

Michael Moore has the #1 book out now, bashing Bush again. But he supported Ralph Nader in 2000. Fuck him.

Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins stood up and denounced the invasion of Iraq, even at risk to their careers. But they supported Nader. Fuck them.

Jim Hightower is one of the best progressive writers, organizers and pundits we have out there. But he supported Nader. Fuck him.


It's like it's the ultimate litmus test for some people. Politicians can be in favor of draconian welfare reform, support the Iraq invasion, oppose major corporate reform, support the drug war, etc. -- and they are completely forgiven. But someone supported Nader in 2000? OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!!! :eyes:

[Forkboy]

36. I honestly see hardly any difference

between the Nader Haters and the Hillary Haters :shrug:

[IrateCitizen]

43. There's a BIG difference between disappointment and hatred

If you want "Hillary Haters", you need to go to Freak Republic. That's where you'll find the mad, foaming-at-the-mouth hatred that is often in equal form here at DU from the "Nader haters".

I'm not entirely enamored of Ralph Nader. I see him as an autocrat and a person more obsessed with his own "cult of personality" than anything else. But I am also smart enough to not allow my disappointment or criticism cross over into outright hatred, as so many here do.

Ditto for Hillary. She's my Senator, and she's been a huge disappointment, IMHO. I don't even like the way she was moved in here to become a Senator -- it was a perfect example of many of the problems with party machine driven NY politics at work. But I would hardly call criticism and disappointment "hate".

[Forkboy]

49. I agree with everything you just said

I wasn't saying you were the one hating.Sorry for any confusion.

[Tatiana]

61. Good point.

Hey, if Hillary gets a pass, then let's give Michael Moore one too! If we can give Kerry a break, then let's cut Susan some slack too.

[PVnRT]

76. Exactly

They want to pull in the moderates (which is a good thing), but everyone else can go to hell.

Of course, it's useless to point out to them that Gore won. Or that millions of registered Democrats who thought Clinton was a pig, and therefore Gore was too, voted for Bush.

[latebloomer]

13. I think she's absolutely right!

Hillary's votes, memorably on the Iraq war resolution and the Patriot Act, were sorely disappointing. I have heard VERY few noteworthy quotes from her about the coup and the subsequent horrors that Bushco has inflicted on our country.

So what if Sarandon supported Nader? How did this stop Hillary from voting on her conscience? -- providing she possesses one, which I tend to doubt.

[supernova]

14. How can you be disappointed

in someone who is serving her first term as Senator? :eyes: It takes years to build up parlimentary clout.

Saradon is disappointed how? That Hillary didn't win the Nobel Peace Prize? That she's not dropping that silly Senate post and running for Prez?

Hillary did well just getting elected in the first place. NYers could have hated her. She's blown open the notion of the fluff-ball trophy wife as arm candy for a successful man. She's just getting started.

[latebloomer]

18. Hillary was never a "fluff-ball trophy wife"

which is why some of us had higher hopes for her.

It may take years to build up clout, but does that mean you vote the wrong way on these crucial issues? You go along to get along, and then miraculously, years later, you emerge as Superwoman? You vote for war after your constituents barrage, beg and sit-in at your office to ask you not to, you vote for the $87 billion, you vote for the Patriot Act? And then someday, when you've kissed enough repug and old-boy ass, you reveal your true dazzling colors?

I don't even consider Hillary a liberal. She is a centrist, and she is all about Hillary.

She will never be President because the right-wing hates her and she has alienated most of the left.

[IrateCitizen]

21. As a NYer, I find your assessment exactly right

I don't even consider Hillary a liberal. She is a centrist, and she is all about Hillary.

That about says it all.

[sangh0]

54. Then why be disappointed?

Hillary's certainly not my idea of a wonderful Senator, but I never expected her to be a flaming liberal, so I'm not disappointed.

[supernova]

30. Well, that's my point

"She is a centrist". She always has been a centrist, not a liberal in the DU sense of that term.

It sounds like Sarandon is saying she's disappointed with Hillary because she hasn't turned out to be Paul Wellstone. Of course, she isn't. She's Hillary.

Personally, as with a lot of people, I've had a wait and see attitude with Hillary. What I'm saying is, it's not good to have your own designs on others then be dissapointed when they act differently than you expected.

[Forkboy]

15. I like both

but I agree with Susan.

[leftofthedial]

16. Supporting Nader was wrong

But I agree with her about Hillary.

I like Hillary, but I've been disappointed in her performance. She hasn't been a progressive force at all.

[el_gato]

17. I'll go with Susan on this

the DLC losers can go rot in hell

[dolstein]

20. For all those who expected Hillary to be a progressive force

what EXACTLY do you think she could accmplish? In case you didn't notice, the Republicans control the senate. Other than whining louder than everyone else, there's not a heck of a lot a left-winger could do. Besides, if she voted the way Susan Sarandon wants, Rudy or Pataki would beat her in 2006. Sorry Susan, but Hillary represents the rest of us just fine, and we outnumber you.

[IrateCitizen]

26. I'll give you two things, dolstein

1. Signing on to Evan Bayh's version of reauthorizing welfare reform, which in some ways was even WORSE than the Republican version. There was a much more humane version floating around out there by the non-conservative Democrats in the Senate, and Hillary could have signed on to that one instead.

2. Voting for the IWR, even after giving a speech in which she denounced it. :wtf:

Contrary to what you may believe, I have come across several people who worked on her campaign in 2000, through the NY Young Dems. And the thing that they all seem to say is, "I'm not going to make that mistake again. She's been a huge disappointment."

Once again, these aren't flaming left-wingers saying this. These are left-of-center Democrats, from a largely Democratic (if extremely corrupt) state.

We aren't asking her to "whine", as you mischaracterizingly say. We were just hoping that she would be more of an advocate for progressive causes. Instead, she's proven herself to be one of the "play along to get along" crowd.

[latebloomer]

31. Pardon my ignorance, IrateCitizen

But what is IWR?

on edit-- It's the Iraq War Resolution, isn't it? Duh!

[IrateCitizen]

32. Iraq War Resolution (n/t)

[papau]

34. humane version floating around ? - you mean adding extra years before

being taken off the rolls?

What I thought was the fight then was to get daycare for folks coming off rolls. And Hill fought for that.

The extra years thing got no real support - I doubt there were 5 votes.

Amazing how the GOP/Fox News "Hillary is out for herself" mantra has found a home in some posts at DU.

That said, we cam all agree she is not a female version of Wellstone, or Sanders, or Barney - but then if all Dems were we would have a very small party.

[IrateCitizen]

41. Here's a snip from one of my favorite groups that show my leanings

http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/Documents/TANF.html

Unfortunately, a cadre of "moderate Democrats" affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council, including Senators Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman, has joined the President. They have embraced the higher work requirements and seem unwilling to seriously address the problem of poverty. Some of these Democrats have gone so far right on welfare that a number of Republican Senators, including Olympia Snowe and Orrin Hatch, have actually found themselves significantly to the left of the DLC Democrats.

Still, all the news is not bad. Senators Kennedy, Wellstone, Corzine and 19 others have laid out a progressive vision for welfare reform that would increase access to education and training, stop the time limits for low-wage workers, ensure fair treatment for immigrants, and invest in supports such as child care. And many of their ideas may well prevail.

[papau]

53. Thanks for the link - I do not see how Hill has been on the wrong side -

she wanted the daycare - and had no problem continuing the work requirement - but with exceptions for spoecial cases. I do not think the writer is following the battle that closely.

From the link:
"Unfortunately, a cadre of "moderate Democrats" affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council, including Senators Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman, has joined the President. They have embraced the higher work requirements and seem unwilling to seriously address the problem of poverty. Some of these Democrats have gone so far right on welfare that a number of Republican Senators, including Olympia Snowe and Orrin Hatch, have actually found themselves significantly to the left of the DLC Democrats. .....Still, all the news is not bad. Senators Kennedy, Wellstone, Corzine and 19 others have laid out a progressive vision for welfare reform that would increase access to education and training, stop the time limits for low-wage workers, ensure fair treatment for immigrants, and invest in supports such as child care. And many of their ideas may well prevail."

I get the Kennedy mailings - and indeed he is a hero of mine - but Hill is no enemy.

[IrateCitizen]

58. Daycare / no daycare, the work requirements were a problem

One of the biggest issues with bringing people off the welfare rolls isn't just providing them with a job. Most people coming off the rolls need the OPPORTUNITY to better their lives. One of the points of the LOWER work requirements was that it permitted time for recipients to attend college and trade programs without sacrificing their family structure in the process.

By instituting higher work requirements, it serves to take away these opportunities by adopting the Republican mantra of "make life even more difficult for the poor so they can succeed" -- an attitude that doesn't make any sense. By endorsing the higher work requirements, Hillary and Joe and the rest of the DLCers who signed on to the President's plan were adopting that same attitude.

Hill's not an enemy, but she's not exactly a steadfast ally or advocate either.

[PVnRT]

79. Now, now, IC

Left-wingers and progressives are not allowed to complain or argue for their cause. They are to shut up and do what the DLC tells them to do.

[latebloomer]

27. "Whining louder than everyone else"??

So, instead of "whining", you just shut up and give the fascist what he wants? You don't fight for what's right because Giuliani might beat you?

What is your POINT???

[PVnRT]

77. Your language betrays you

"...there's not a heck of a lot a left-winger could do."

Not Democrat.

Left-winger.

Yeah, us filthy left-wingers just need to shut up and go along with things, right?

[RuB]

22. I'm disappointed in Hillary too. She acts like a presidential candiate

speaks like a presidential candidate when shes just 1 of a 100. She doesn't speak out forcefully enough for the Democratic party especially the candidates, but of course she can't because she's a presidential candidate.

<on edit> if Hillary came out now and endorsed a candidate would that sway you to change your choice if it conflicted with hers?

[Sean Reynolds]

24. She's right ya know!

Hillary voted for the IWR as well as the 87 billion. IMO she's turned out to be a typical politician.

She turned her back on a lot of Democrats and I don't think I can forgive her for it.

[Rainbowreflect]

29. Hey, I'm disappointed in Hillary as well.

I disagree with many of her votes.
Susan Sarandon has every right to state her feelings about how a politian does their job.

[papau]

37. I am impressed with Hillary - I think she has done great - a strong

voice for the party, the party's goals, and the people of New York.

Pure "anti-war is a must" folks need not look at Hillary - but then where do they look. The public is not responding to the chant that the war should not have been fought (something I believe - but I also believe in getting elected so as to make a change -:-)

[IrateCitizen]

45. Empty platitudes, all

... a strong voice for the party, the party's goals, and the people of New York

In what ways? I can say for myself and numerous NYS Young Dems who worked on her campaign (and now say they won't make THAT mistake again) that she is a disappointment to many of the people of NY.

Pure "anti-war is a must" folks need not look at Hillary - but then where do they look.

Did you even listen to her speech on the floor? She numerated the reasons why we should NOT go to war, and then she voted for the damned thing! :wtf:

This NYer was left completely perplexed, and saw it as just another "political maneuver" rather than doing what was right.

[papau]

57. The point that sold the resolution was that Saddam did not respond

without a real threat.

So they gave Bush the ability to threaten - and Saddam responded by OK'ing intrusive UN inspections - assuming the offer made the week before the war started and reported by ABC and the NT Times this week was coming from someone with real authority - and Bush tossed it away and killed 20,000, and wounded maimed another 20,000.

Bush is the enemy - not Hill.

[IrateCitizen]

59. If you know that, and I know that, why didn't she know that???

See, that's one of the big problems here. This administration has been lying, deceitful, secretive and manipulative ever since it came into office. Hill's approach was basically, "I trust the President to do the right thing."

And have you seen her since the invasion? She has been unapologetic about the Iraq War. Rather than saying that it was not the right thing to do, she has unequivicolly supported it. No longer is it about "applying pressure". It's now all of a sudden completely justified.

If you can't see these instances of hypocrisy, I'm afraid there's nothing more I can do to open your eyes. :shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Anybody notice how Salon seems to be feeding the infighting lately or is

it just me?

[Robin Hood]

35. What a moran.

If her savior Saint Ralph, had pulled out of the race after he had made his point. We wouldn't be in any of the mess that we are in now. It's like causing the sky to fall and then blaming others for it.

I am sick of her and Tim Robbins. I saw him on Bill Maher's HBO show and he was ineffectual. Susan will be remembered for standing by her man Ralph and giving US this big pile of shit for a pResident.

[Rainbowreflect]

46. Yea, it's all Susan's fault bush was appointed.

No wait it's Tim's fault, no Michael Moore's fault, no Ralph's fault, no........

[Robin Hood]

75. Remember this one? There is no difference between the two parties.

That stupid statement that Saint Ralph and all of his kool-aid swilling sycophants were echoing, helped to represent Bush as a kindler gentler conservative much like the kind and gentle Al Gore. The greens gave that innocent impression of Bush, which not only stole votes from Gore to the Green side but also from middle of the road folk towards Bush's side.

You can not deny that If Ralph had the decency to bow out, we would not be in this mess. Supreme court would not have happened if the greens hadn't assisted Bush in the first place.

Nice going.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

48. Ralph Nader ordered the Supreme Court to appoint Bush?

I had no idea the man had such power!

[PVnRT]

78. I was wondering that myself

Apparently the Supreme Court consists of Michael Moore, Ralph Nader, Susan Sarandon, Phil Donahue, and Tim Robbins.

Actually, I wouldn't mind that at all...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

38. Clinton, my Senator, what good is she?

She is a "D" instead of an "R" but that's about it. Voted for IWR, PATRIOT Act, Bush's $87 billion handout.

If she wasn't HILLARY she would be hated here just like Gephardt is. Which is weird since Gephardt has a very long and good history and Clinton hasn't done anything.

[CWebster]

39. The truth about Hillary

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0605-07.htm

http://www.fair.org/articles/hillary.html

What I find interesting is that the more progressive members are more conscious of who Hillary really is and where she stands beyond the cult status spin she attracts.

I bet I could break it down by candidate support. ;-)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

50. Please do break it down my candidate support

I'd be interested in your opinion :)

[jiacinto]

40. Yeah

Hillary has done more for this country than Sarandon ever will.

[Faygo Kid]

42. Susan is an elitist

Another ungodly rich Hollywood stereotype who occasionally says things we agree with, but who has no clue as to what is really happening to real people. Yeah, I like her and Tim Robbins, but they are not exactly in tune with the electorate. Spare me.

[Character Assassin]

47. Well, DUH, Susan. What took you so long to figure this one out?

[IrateCitizen]

51. C'mon, CA -- don't sugarcoat it!

Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;-)

[Forkboy]

52. boy...you'd think from the reactions

that Susan accused Hillary of baking kittens for dinner.

[IrateCitizen]

60. She supported Nader -- it's the same thing as baking kittens for dinner.

:evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

62. cut that out!

:D

[Old and In the Way]

55. Is Sarandon a Democrat?

No?

Then her opinions should be assumed to have ulterior motives.

At least with Republicans, you know what side they are on. A "liberal" and "progressive" like Sarandon who needs to diss Hillary when I can think of 50+ other Senators who are far more to the Right of Hillary, makes me wonder what her real agenda is.

Let's face it...the Greens need to kill the Democratic Party in order to replace it with one to their liking. They do that by attacking the Democrats who have the strongest recognition and Party support.

[Character Assassin]

69. Crap. Her opinions should be assumed not to toe the democratic line

If she's not a Democratic.

By definition her opinions will be at variance with those of Democrats, so to label her opinions as having 'ulterior motives' is basically semantic bullshit.

[Q]

56. Hillary would do just as well in the Republican party...

...as she and the rest of the 'NeoDems' are literally sellouts...compromising our party to death.

- Sarandon isn't a Democrat so it's no surprise that she voted third party. But I don't get the connection with her voting for Nader and Hillary's political career. She has had plenty of opportunities to act like a Democrat...but fails the party when she votes with the LIttle Dictator and his band of war profiteers.

[Gin]

63. We all actlike Hillary is our savior...she isn't....shes a senator working

for New York and owes us nothing...she did her part as first lady..and did it well...man we put high hopes on people and they better live and vote the way we want..or they are traitors to the cause...she needs some space...let her go.

[Upfront]

64. I agree

Hillery is a big let down to me. DLC controlled.

[MadHound]

65. I have to go with Sarandon on this one

Let's see, voted for the Patriot Act, voted for the war resolution, voted for giving ever more billions to the war machine(and the BFEE). Sorry, she maybe a Dem, but Hil is on the wrong side of the big issues here.

Yes, yes, she's a first term senator, but quite frankly whether you're a freshman or looking at retirement, voting on the right side of crucial issues is key. Hil has struck out this, and by doing so she is showing whose interests she is truly looking out for, those of her corporate masters, and those of the DLC.

[kyrasdad]

66. I LOVE HILLARY!

But I wasn't too happy with her when she voted to give Bush the OK to go to war. I'm still not over that... but I still love her and think she's the best thing to happen not only to NY bu the country.

As for her being remembered for only "standing by her man", well Susan, I really like you too, but shut the fuck up.

[Rainbowreflect]

67. "Shut the fuck up" is such a great response to someone saying

anything you don't agree with. Why does she not have the right to say how she feels about Hillary?

[kyrasdad]

68. my apologies

I was temporarily taken over by the spirit Of Bill O'Reilly... you're absolutley right... I just get touchy when people dis Hillary...

[Rainbowreflect]

72. Apology gladly accepted.

:pals:

[GalleryGod]

70. Yeah, You & Tim on Larry King for Nader!

:grouphug: Nev-er Forget..Ne-ver!

[paulk]

73. Hillary is trying to do her job

which is Jr. Senator from N.Y. - and she seems to be pretty serious about it. She's doing what politicians do - making deals, compromising, working for her state. I think her time in the White House made her understand that to be effective there you have to work through Congress. A couple of terms from now, she'll be ready to make a run for the top.

I have a few hundred relatives in (conservative) upstate NY who were prepared to dislike her - and she's come off very well with them. She's spent a lot of time getting familiar with the issues they care about.

[QC]

74. Can we be disappointed in both Hillary and Susan?

Hillary for governing as a pro-corporate conservative (remember bankruptcy "reform"?) and Susan for throwing her support behind one of Gore's opponents?