Anti-Clark people, please name any military officers you trust

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

Obviously, one of the things that makes Clark an attractive candidate is his military career. Lots of Democrats here have listed issues they have with Clark - the bombing of journalists in Kosovo and the civilian casualties in that war, Clark's ties to some security companies including Axciom, which brings up fears of PATRIOT Act type domestic spying, the fact that he voted for Reagan 20 years ago.

I don't think the Democratic party can survive without support of the military, both the troops on the ground and the high level beauracrats, especially now after 911 and while we are at war. So if Clark isn't a good enough Democrat, I'd like to know who is.

[mr_hat]

1. Uh.. Sgt. Rock?

[JohnKleeb]

2. Sgt isnt an officer

[KittyWampus]

15. Yes, Sgt Is An NCO...Isn't It?

Isn't a sergeant a non commissioned officer...

[JohnKleeb]

22. What would I know

:shrug: I am practically a pacifist ;), actually I kinda am and kinda not.

[Renew Deal]

26. My friend is a Sgt.

and he was in the marines 4 years. It's not an officer.

[KittyWampus]

38. Dictionary-Sergeant Is A Non Commissioned Officer

Meaning they haven't been selected to go to Officer School :)

Sergeant- n 1: any of several noncommissioned officer ranks in the army or air force or marines ranking above a corporal

Just a bit of trivia for the day.

[mr_hat]

19. Oh yeah?

Well, I'm not anti-Clark, neither.

[JohnKleeb]

23. yea

[mr_hat]

39. Then.

[xultar]

3. I'd also like links to posts where Clark Supporters have attacked

Please post here or anywhere cuz I wanna see

[Cocoa]

4. Gen. Boykin

he just seems like a guy I'd like to have a beer with. :-)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. thanks Cocoa, can you tell us a bit about Boykin?

I don't know anything about him?

[charlie]

6. Hoho, you're in for a shock n/t

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. oh "Christian Army" "spiritual battle" Boykin?

nevermind, I though Cocao was being serious.

[Cocoa]

8. sorry

I wasn't trying to trick you, I thought everyone knew about Boykin, the hyperreligious general that sees this war as a religious crusade and thinks God, not the Supreme Court, appointed Bush. I was joking, but forgot the smiley.

[wyldwolf]

7. Good question!

This thread should be interesting...

[Hep]

9. Major Margaret Houlihan

But I'm not anti-Clark, so I don' think I count.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. thanks for the name

Any info about her?

[Hep]

12. Sure

she was a nurse in the Korean war. Very trustworthy. A little too rigid, but she could really party when she wanted to.

[charlie]

13. Uh-uh, now I don't know if you're joking too

:)

[thebigidea]

14. Martin Bormann

[wyldwolf]

16. So far, no serious replies...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. instructive isn't it?

This is a serious problem and I have little faith that liberals up are to dealing with it. Hence, our all Republican government, and Democrats inability to deal with stopping wars. Funny ha ha.

[wyldwolf]

20. I've always felt that the main problem, perhaps even the only problem...

...some further left have with Clark is he is military. This doesn't actually confirm it because not enough people have checked in, but it certainly lends credance to the stereotype that many liberals are anti-military. Perhaps Clark is just the face of their disdain?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. We have a Che icon here on DU

Surely the "left" isn't completely anti-military. I'm not.

"Perhaps Clark is just the face of their disdain?"

Absolutely. The fact that they will actively support civilian DINOs who order war but never military that carries out the orders makes me wonder if these people are "left" in any sense of the word that I can understand.

[JohnKleeb]

25. I sure am not "anti military" just very dovish

and I have the highest respect for vets.

[wyldwolf]

37. Well, let's clarify what I said...

... I said "some further left" not the "left." I'm left - but not as far as some (and further than others.)

[charlie]

32. Hold on there

I've seen more than a few explain their resistance to Clark as a refusal to give in to the Republican-generated hysteria that STRONG DEFENSE and NATIONAL SECURITY will be the end-all-be-all concerns for Americans in the coming decades. They want a civilian because floating a military candidate is playing in the Repub sandbox. Kerry also suffers from this concern.

And there are others who just don't like Clark, consider him to be the Butcher of Belgrade.

Now I don't know if any of them would accept an officer other than Clark in better times, they haven't said.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. not quite

"They want a civilian because floating a military candidate is playing in the Repub sandbox."

The military, national security, and a strong defense isn't and should be the Republican sandbox. We need to change that perception if it really exists.

[charlie]

41. That's not what I meant

They won't step into the issues as framed by Republicans. It's what Democrats too often fall prey to. Repubs define the parameters and Dems pretzel themselves trying to fit into them.

[Hep]

21. I just don't know many

prominant military officers.

I mean, I know General Shinseki was critical of Bush. I want to think I can trust him. But I haven't read his dissier or anything.

I want to think I can trust Clark. In fact I'm pretty sure I can trust Clark. I'll certainly cast my vote for him.

I'm not sure where our inability to stop wars is. This time around, it seemed like stopping a hurricane.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

27. We didn't do a good job stopping anything

in GWI, or Haiti, or Clinton's bombing of Iraq, either.

[Hep]

34. Too true

But we have a much better shot with a D in the white house.

[Snow]

28. Pssshhhhhhougghhh!

Lt. General (2 stars, right?) Paul Dionne (ret), formerly of the Army Rangers. Helluva guy, very much a lefty, seriously pissed at * because of the cuts in vet benefits, serious thinker. Has a grandaughter whom he's raising since she was orphaned by a car crash, they're both anime freaks (personally, yuk!, but to each his own.). But, yeah, I trust and respect Paul immensely. He's been through an number of wars, become more disillusioned with each and more unhappy with having to be a part of it. Trouble is, he's damn good at generalling, and things tend to go better when he's there - less people on our side get killed, surrenders happen instead of massacres, civilian villages don't get wiped out. So he hung in even when he disagreed vehemently with the casus belli. Honorably retired, and all that, but unknown, I guess, and, final problem, he is 85 years old. Maybe a little too old to run for president.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. thanks for the first real reply!

Thanks Snow. Is 85 too old? I guess that depends on his health. Does he have any friends? :)

[Snow]

33. Friends? Quite a few, including us online friends -

family, old buddies. He owns a small ranch where he has horses, loves riding. He's worried he'll have to sell it to pay his accursed medical bills.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. I mean politically interested military people

We elect career politicians, career laywers, and career businessmen all the time, I think military service would be as good, if not better, qualification than the others.

[Snow]

45. Right, gotcha. Dunno.

I'll ask him -

[ulysses]

17. IrateCitizen.

edit: I'm not anti-Clark, but not pro- either.

[JackRiddler]

30. Real ones?

Smedley Butler

Steve Butler

[dfong63]

31. george mcgovern. eugene carroll. doug rokke. charlie clements...

scott ritter, and i could come up with more, but what's the point?

I don't think the Democratic party can survive without support of the military, both the troops on the ground and the high level beauracrats, especially now after 911 and while we are at war. So if Clark isn't a good enough Democrat, I'd like to know who is.

two separate questions. can the dems survive "without" the military? and does that mean we have to nominate a general in order to get the military vote? leaving aside the fact that "the military" brass and the cannon fodder might be two completely separate interest groups.

i do not think we have to nominate a general. all that should be necessary is to point out how Shrub is screwing them. it's not hard to understand. in fact, i'd think it's hard not to see.

you ask "if Clark isn't a good enough democrat, who is?" well, i think the answer is obvious. there are plenty of dems who have served in the military, they've been dems longer than a few months, and they've proved themselves on the political battlefield.

[shanti]

36. sorry but

it's clark's military background that MAKES me distrust him!

[DoNotRefill]

42. Admiral Bourda...

He wasn't afraid to take a life for the good of his country....even his own.

:evilgrin:

[charlie]

43. Boorda was a good guy

The first CNO to come up from the enlisted ranks. He took good care of his sailors.

One of the reasons I despise that showboating ratfuck Hackworth is that he had a hand in goading Boorda into killing himself, over a supposed transgression that HE was guilty of.

[Scott Lee]

44. Gen. Smedley Butler

But alas, he's dead.

[mike_c]

46. I don't trust ANY career militarists with civilian gov't control....

I'm sure there might be occasional exceptions (Smedley Butler comes to mind as a possibility), but for the most part I think career militarists make bad civilian leaders. Too many connections to the Pentagon and DoD, to many connections to the MIC.