Reagan and NED

[CivilRightsNow]

I swear. I dont understand how anyone doesnt look into this.

It totally explains the cycle. NED was founded by Reagan.. Mr. Fundimentalist conservative Christian biggot, if there ever was one. He wanted to spread democracy and liberty under "God"


Reagan wasnt a religious man?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reagan/filmmore/reference/interview/nancyreagan01.html

Nancy Reagan on:
What Religion Meant to her Husband

Well he has a deep belief in God and that everything happens for a reason, which we may not understand at the time it happens but that God has a plan for each of us and you know you begin to think that really someone is looking out for him. In Sacramento, when he was first sworn in it was a gray day and as he stepped up to the podium to give his speech, the clouds parted and the sun shone. When he finished, the clouds went back together. The same thing happened in Washington. And after the shooting, the next morning, there was a rainbow over the White House, so and just the shooting itself, he said to Cardinal Cook, I know that God was sitting on my shoulder.

OMG I forgot about all this great Reagan stuff. The Reagan Doctrine.. what a gem that was. Here is an article with Issac Asimov's opinion on it.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/asimov.htm

Some time ago, Ronald Reagan pointed out that one couldn't trust the Soviet government because the Soviets didn't believe in God or in an afterlife and therefore had no reason to behave honorably, but would be willing to lie and cheat and do all sorts of wicked things to aid their cause. Naturally, I firmly believe that the president of the United States knows what he is talking about, so I've done my very best to puzzle out the meaning of that statement.

Let me begin by presenting this "Reagan Doctrine" (using the term with all possible respect): "No one who disbelieves in God and in an afterlife can possibly be trusted." If this is true (and it must be if the president says so), then people are just naturally dishonest and crooked and downright rotten. In order to keep them from lying and cheating every time they open their mouths, they must be bribed or scared out of doing so. They have to be told and made to believe that if they tell the truth and do the right thing and behave themselves, they will go to heaven and get to plunk a harp and wear the latest design in halos. They must also be told and made to believe that if they lie and steal and run around with the opposite sex, they are going to hell and will roast over a brimstone fire forever.

...snip

Oh and this speech about Israel and our Judeo Christian national bonds... gotta love it!
http://members.aol.com/VFTINC/history/Reagan.htm

And let me assure you, we will never attempt to impose a solution on Israel, nor will we ever weaken in our opposition to terrorism by the PLO or by anybody else. As I said when I addressed you in 1980, terrorists are not guerillas or commandos or freedom fighters or anything else. They're terrorists, and should be identified as such. We will go on working with all our hearts to help the people of the Middle East achieve a just and lasting settlement--a settlement that agrees, in the words of my statement of September 1982, that Israel "has a right to exist in peace behind secure and defensible borders, and it has a right to expect its neighbors to recognize this."

When I spoke to you 4 years ago, peace was eluding the Middle East. It still does. But now we and the State of Israel have far greater cause for hope.

Today the United States is rebuilding its defenses, and that is restoring confidence in our leadership and making the parties more willing to take risks for peace. Today the United States has re-energized its vast and productive economy, and that will help to make Israel more prosperous. And today the United States has stopped wringing its hands apologetically and once again begun to play its rightful role in the world with faith, confidence, and courage. And that means Israel can depend on us.

We who are friends of Israel may differ over tactics, but our goal remains always unchanged--permanent security for the people of that brave State. In this great enterprise, the United States and Israel stand forever united. And as we approach the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah, let us pray that the new year will be a Shanah Tovah Umetukah--a good and sweet year for both America and Israel.

For make no mistake: In a world where so many are hostile to freedom, where millions live in poverty and oppression, those few nations who share the light of liberty must stand together. If we do not, we take the awful chance that the darkness will overwhelm us one by one. But standing together, we can pierce the darkness and shed our light over all the Earth.

Thank you. God bless you all.

Closing remarks of second inaugural address:
It is the American sound. It is hopeful, big-hearted, idealistic, daring, decent, and fair. That's our heritage; that is our song. We sing it still. For all our problems, our differences, we are together as of old, as we raise our voices to the God who is the Author of this most tender music. And may He continue to hold us close as we fill the world with our sound--sound in unity, affection, and love--one people under God, dedicated to the dream of freedom that He has placed in the human heart, called upon now to pass that dream on to a waiting and hopeful world.

God bless you and may God bless America.



And NED was his baby:
Some ideas on NED
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Reagan_CIA.html
http://www.saag.org/papers2/paper115.html
Look how much the presidential records say:
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/findaid/raymond.htm
http://www.jpf.go.jp/j/region_j/cgp_j/intel/abe/original/report_04.html

[CivilRightsNow]

1. Nobody ever touches this

http://www.heritage.org/Research/TradeandForeignAid/em461.cfm

The heritage group? Congress.. aid.. what?

http://www.townhall.com/audio/content/ashcroftfinal.ram

Listen to Ashcroft's speech

http://www.heritage.org/About/Community/rb_report.cfm

He sounds like he is giving a sermon. He even quotes proverbs.

[ComerPerro]

2. I can't summon the willpower to go through all of this now

But I will kick and bookmark, because you raise a very good point. And you are right, no one really discusses this.

[CivilRightsNow]

3. Ill just keep adding links and info

One day, Ill write it all cohesively and write a book like Will. :)

Did I mention that NED was great at rigging elections?
http://www.publiceye.org/research/Group_Watch/Entries-71.htm

Rick Santorum, misc speech. Wow, I mean, he made me feel like I was in sunday school:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Religion/HL643.cfm

"Religion contributes to the American Experiment in at least one other way--it burns deeply in the hearts of men and women, emboldening them to confront injustice and improve the condition of our society. Being "one nation, under God" is not at all the same as being a godly nation. Our history bears ample witness to the fact that we Americans, like every other people who ever were or ever will be, are a community of sinners. But that same history also makes it clear that, in every generation, men and women with a fervent faith in God's word have valiantly sought to curb our evil impulses. The campaigns against "demon rum" and child labor, the efforts to protect women and Indians, the movement to advance the civil rights of African-Americans--all had their origins in the truth-claims of religious conviction. From its very outset, the campaign against slavery in the United States was based on the conviction that inasmuch as all men and women are created in God's image, slavery is an affront against God Himself."

...

Our VP hides in bunkers and is rarely seen by the american people but yet he goes and speaks at the sister think tank?
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/HL802.cfm

I like this part:
Since 9/11, we've learned much more about what these enemies intend for us. One member of al-Qaeda said 9/11 was the "beginning of the end of America." And we know to a certainty that terrorists are doing everything they can to gain even deadlier means of striking us. From the training manuals we found in the caves of Afghanistan to the interrogations of terrorists that we've captured, we have learned of their ambitions to develop or acquire chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. And if terrorists ever do acquire that capability--on their own or with help from a terror regime--they will use it without the slightest constraint of reason or morality.

That possibility, the ultimate nightmare, could bring devastation to our country on a scale we have never experienced. Instead of losing thousands of lives, we might lose tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of lives in a single day of war. Remembering what we saw on the morning of 9/11, and knowing the nature of these enemies, we have as clear a responsibility as could ever fall to government: We must do everything in our power to keep terrorists from ever acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

...snip
==============

Why tell them that? Why not tell us?

Thinktanks are the government's outsourcing agency. It's scary.

[CivilRightsNow]

4. Who funds the "company" that runs the elections?

http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

If you said NED, you were correct.

[CivilRightsNow]

5. The 10 Legacies of the Gipper

http://www.policyreview.org/spring89/pines.html

Good old Heritage foundation/think tank.

"And then, of course, there are Ronald Reagan's words. I am not sure how they will sound to you, with your very different culture and history. But Reagan has invoked words, thoughts, and images that have touched American hearts and have recalled a special pride we long had in our country.

Frequently, Reagan talked about America as a promised land. He called America a "Zion in the wilderness," and "a city on the hill." He said often, in speaking to Congress or on television addressing the nation, that America is "the last best hope of man on earth."

... Snip


Ashcroft says city on the hill in the speech I linked. At the end.

[CivilRightsNow]

6. One last kick before bed.

I cant believe this gets constantly ignored. It is as if it exists in some other plane or something. No real replies to any of the points in this thread, even though they are questions we need to be asking ourself.

Who is controling who where? What's behind the curtin?

[DUreader]

7. Its saturday morning, traffic is way lighter on the weekend

of course that doesnt explain it all

but you have also put up a serious amount of reading material here

Just stick with it
maybe post stuff in installments in multiple threads over several days

or even weeks with links back to previous installments


Sometimes DU can move so fast it seems like a chatroom, but it is not

a chat and remembering that can help.

Longer term perspective... ease your mind.

And a Big Thank You for your work here.

[DUreader]

8. kick for the noon crowd

[CivilRightsNow]

9. WHO is NED?

DUReader, thanks. I dont mean to over react.. but Ive been bringing this up for awhile and the people here typically love the conspiracy theories.. but nobody will touch this. It just seems weird


I know this is all probably pretty fractured and circuitous.. but I think if you take the time, you would develop a big picture. I feel like a big conspiracist at the moment, so Id like to check myself in the reality of other views.

Below, Ive listed some links and info about various members of the board. I need to finish all of them. When I found good articles, I tried to include them too. I think it helps to see who we are working with and why they are all related.. and how.

Francis Fukuyama
This guy scares me. Ill only focus on a few links because there is so much info out there on how scary this guy is you should have no reason finding it on your own if you are interested.

Condi Rice buddy
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/lm/stories/s640487.htm

Member of the President's council on Bioethics
http://www.bioethics.gov/about/fukuyama.html

This is PNAC stuff. It's straight up weird. Scroll down for the article so you dont have to sign up for the NYT
http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0204/msg00031.html


Vin Weber
http://www.mediatransparency.org/people/vin_weber.htm

He is linked to the CAE (Center for -- (Other board member, Micheal Novak is also linked to CAE
http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipients/cae.htm

http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1119/article10388.asp

He is even part of PNAC
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Vin also had links to ChoicePoint, the people who helped steal the election and are now contracted for Ashcroft's Total Information Awareness Project:
http://www.gregpalast.com/printerfriendly.cfm?artid=203

Thomas Donahue
President of Federated
http://www.federatedinvestors.com/company/history.asp
http://opengov.media.mit.edu/EX/0000/100/124/472/

Federated talks to the SEC alot:
Federated on the Sarbanes -Oxley Act
http://www.sec.gov/rules/proposed/s73302/skeen1.htm
On the Investment company act of 1940 amendment
http://www.sec.gov/rules/proposed/s72101/neuman1.htm

Federated Is linked to the Galliot Center (Oh, his dad owns Federated, by the way):
In its role as advisor to the JEC, the Center produces "Quarterly International Economics Reports" that are distributed to members of Congress and published by the JEC. Several of the reports have been supported by international news stories and opinion-editorials, authored by Meltzer and/or Lerrick, in London's Financial Times and The Wall Street Journal. Another measure of the Center's impact is the implementation of its research as policy. President George W. Bush has highlighted the Center's grant-based aid proposal as a cornerstone of the Administration's international development strategy.
http://wpweb2k.gsia.cmu.edu/gsia/media/10-23-02NS.asp

William H Frist - Senate Republican Majority Leader
http://opengov.media.mit.edu/DBD/CACHE/0000/000/300/045/

He also wrote this book
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0742522458

He is the health industry's man in the govt.


Suzanne Garmet
--formerly of AEI fame
http://www.aei.org/scholars/view.,dateType.,year.,month.,recNo.0,filter.social/scholar_byname.asp

***Micheal Novak and Richard Perle are scholars at AEI.. so is Lynne Cheney.. and Gingrich (this will make sense in the next link)

Defending Gingrich
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/january97/scandal_1-8.html

She is also in bed with Vin Webber in The Council for Excellence in Govt.. Lee Hamilton makes an appearance there too. Look at the Coucil's Corporate partners
http://www.excelgov.org/displayContent.asp?NewsItemID=1315&Keyword=prnwChanging

Last but not least, she is married to Nixon's former special counsel after Watergate broke.
Leonard Garmet wrote:
http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews/0465026141.asp
Some speculate he may just be Deepthroat.

Lee H. Hamilton
http://www.9-11commission.gov/about/bio_hamilton.htm
-- He is also on the 9/11 comission.. guess he is Kissinger's stand in

Also on the homeland security advisory council
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Homeland_Security_Advisory_Council

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1994_cr/h940721-terror-is.htm

The Role of the Congress in US Foreign Policy - http://www.csis.org/html/sp98hamilton.html

Last Words: October Sunrise

Ralph J. Gerson
Sits on the Henry Ford Board of Trustees
http://www.hfmgv.org/about/mission.asp

He LOVES Globalization (check out his article on page 30 of the following link)
http://www.wdi.bus.umich.edu/publications/gp_pdf/gp_issue2_fall2002.pdf

Bio - http://www.consespain-usa.org/intro/biografias/ing/14.html

Matthew McHugh
From 1975 to 1992, McHugh represented the 27th and 28th Congressional Districts of New York. While in Congress, McHugh served on a number of committees and sub-committees, including the Appropriations Committee and the Arms Control and Foreign Policy Committee, which he chaired in the early 1980s.

Then, he became counselor to the president of the World Bank... WTF?

A speech: http://inside.binghamton.edu/September-October/16sept99/mchugh.html

[FrenchieCat]

10. NED is a Bipartisan affair.....

Actually the NED has SEVERAL Democrats on its board some of whom were or are presently in Congress,
including: Sen. Bob Graham(Fla), Rep. Gregory Meeks (N.Y.), Howard Wolpe(Michigan), Lee Hamilton(Indiana),
Matthew McHugh (NY), Evan Bayh (Indiana). Clark was a Clinton appointee.

There are also Labor Representatives: Thomas Donahue (AFL-CIO) and Leon Lynch (United Steel of A)

The reason there are both White and Black hats is because the NED is BI-PARTISAN non profit organization
funded by Congress (after 1994 it accepts contributions from private sector).

The NED's mission is to "help strengthen Democratric Instititutions around the world". Like all government
organizations it has been used towards both good and BAD ends... as the Left and Right BOTH get to direct
where funds go. The funds are dispursed through the following four organizations (two are Democratic/Labor & two are
Republican).

"The NED funnels its money overseas either through direct grants to foreign organizations or through
four NED core institutes: the American Center for International Labor Solidarity (ACILS), the Center for
International Private Enterprise (CIPE), the International Republican Institute (IRI), and the National
Democratic Institute for International Affairs (NDI)." (snip)

Some of the Good Stuff done by fellows who got grants from the NED (which has gotten good words from
Amnesty International):

Chaihark Hahm, (November 2001 - August 2002)
Constitutionalism and Democracy in South Korea
Dr. Hahm's project focuses on constitutional review and democracy in South Korea. He examines the role of
the Korean Constitutional Court in building democracy in South Korea, using a comparative framework that
considers the influence of political culture and cultural traditions

Charlie James Hughes, (May 2002 - August 2002)
A Practitioner's Handbook on Civic Education Initiatives
Charlie Hughes is the director and "driving force" behind the Forum for Democratic Initiatives (FORDI) in
Sierra Leone. His project focuses on civic education initiatives in the United States which can be applied in
Sierra Leone

Ramin Jahanbegloo, (October 2001 - August 2002 )
Intellectuals and Democracy in Iran
Dr. Jahanbegloo's project focuses on the role of Iranian intellectuals in promoting Iranian democracy,
including the attitudes of youth and young professionals in Iran today

Yuriy Krynytskyy, (April - August 2002)
Political Technologies and the Promotion of Democracy in Ukraine
Mr. Krynytskyy is a young activist from Kharkiv, Ukraine, who serves as press secretary and head of a
district division of the "Rukh" party (People's Movement of Ukraine).

Ndubisi Obiorah, (June - August 2002)
Corruption and Democracy in Africa: A Comparative Perspective
Mr. Obiorah is a Nigerian human rights lawyer who has worked for HURILAWS, the Human Rights Law
Service in Lagos


Adotei Akwei, Ghana
Governance, Repression, and Human Rights in Africa
Visiting Fellow, July - December 2003
Mr. Akwei is Senior Advocacy Director for Africa at Amnesty International USA, serving as his organization's
chief spokesperson, strategist, and liaison with the U.S. government, media, and the general public on
African human rights issues and U.S. foreign policy toward Africa

Ladan Boroumand, Iran
Promoting Democracy and Human Rights in Iran
Visiting Fellow, October 2002 - September 2003
Dr. Ladan Boroumand is director of the Abdorrahman Boroumand Foundation for the Promotion of Human
Rights and Democracy in Iran. She earned her doctorate in history from the Ecole des Hautes Etudes en
Sciences Sociales in Paris, where she published La guerre des principes (1999), a book exploring the
tensions during the French Revolution between the rights of man and the sovereignty of the nation. Her
project examines the prospects for democracy in Iran from a historical perspective.

Clark May ver well propose closing NED activities and replacing it with a DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AID (similar to Kecinich's Dept. of Peace, but as an International dept/not so much domestic) to replace it:
Clark Wants More Foreign Aid, New Department to Handle It
Book Faults Bush for Pursuing Notion of American 'Empire'

By Bradley Graham
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 29, 2003; Page A05

A new book by Wesley K. Clark, the retired Army general running for president, calls for a major expansion
in U.S. foreign assistance programs and establishment of a Department of International Assistance to
manage the initiative.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14400-2003Sep28.html

[CivilRightsNow]

11. Some of those Democrats are shady

We have good and bad within the party. There is no denying that. But to look at the whole picture, Im sorry.. NED isnt just some bipartisan thinktank.

They are making Reagan's dreams a reality. And Clark is just the pusher of PC, PNAC for the mainstream.

NED funds covert CIA operations. It is all out there, if anyone wishes to know.

Dont close your eyes to the alternate path that they are creating, just to get Bush out. It has the same goals.

[FubarFly]

12. The truth is noone here knows what Clark's involvement with NED is-

or if they do, they're not telling.

I would like to support Clark, but until questions like these are reasonably answered, I will never be able to trust him.

[FrenchieCat]

13. So since .....

FubarFly says "I will never be able to trust him".

It appears that it doesn't matter what he did or didn't do, because your prejudice is overtaking any rational thoughts. NED is your BOOGEYman because you believe what you don't know.

That's alright, that's ok....I feel the same way about Dean's sealing of 10 years worth of his Vermont Governorial records.....even worst...

because if you wanted to find out about Clark's association with NED (which he and Holbrook were put on as board member during the Clinton administration and had to do all with KOSOVO)

AT LEAST YOU CAN.

But with Dean, there is a lock on that door of knowledge. Now why is that? Since you "don't trust"??????

[CivilRightsNow]

14. Refute the information then

Refute the ties to all this shady back door imperialization and the people involved, right now at this space and time.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Refute the ties????????

Again, you make no sense. In rational debate, you earn a great big zero.

Six degrees of seperation to satan is your point of contention.

As you are the one calling NED a "shady back door" organization, and I am posting showing that it is a bipartisan commission who even has union members on it's board.......the "Shady" is questionable.

Everything can be "Shady".....as it is a good suspicious word to use.

However, at the moment, your argument sounds more like a dittohead type of argument.

I have given you a response about NED...but you ignored it and went on to call it "Shady".....

SO OK, Unions, Democrats, Clinton, Holbrook are all "Shady" to you.

You just make no sense...but I guess this argument is meant to link "Shady" to Clark. Propaganda 101 says it can work if you are talking to uneducated fools......Which you are not.

[CivilRightsNow]

18. Ive seen what you posted countless times on DU

But that is all that gets posted. It's the same ole tired silencer that exhaults people involved with things like October Surprise. Nobody ever deals with the fact that NED was an organization founded for the wrong principles and that remains mired in controversy.

You can attack my debating skills all you want. Or YOU can read the information and get a clearer picture of who these people are and what they have been up to.

Do you think Bush gave a speech about changing the war dramatically and discarding 60 years of policy to NED before the American people for no reason?

[FrenchieCat]

22. What I do know is

Clark May proposes closing NED activities and replacing it with a DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AID (similar to Kecinich's Dept. of Peace, but as an International dept/not so much domestic):
Clark Wants More Foreign Aid, New Department to Handle It
Book Faults Bush for Pursuing Notion of American 'Empire'

By Bradley Graham
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 29, 2003; Page A05

A new book by Wesley K. Clark, the retired Army general running for president, calls for a major expansion
in U.S. foreign assistance programs and establishment of a Department of International Assistance to
manage the initiative.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14400-2003Sep28.html

[CivilRightsNow]

25. Have you looked at any of the links presented?

Or looked at the full picture outside of that article that you cite?

No offense. But the NED is already the Department of Foreign Aid. That theme is repeated throughout the links. That would be nothing more then a name change.

If you look at the words that they use, it's just fanaticism without the christian fundamentalism. Very politically correct.

"Former general, possible Democratic presidential candidate, and Segway rider Wesley Clark on why the military usually gets the money it needs while foreign aid, for example, usually loses out: "In the Defense Department, we've got the machinery. When we want something done we just make sure the B-2 Bomber is built in 49 states."

Fortune magazine, July 30th, 2003:
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/brainstorm/0,15704,471913,00.html

[FrenchieCat]

28. When reading that article, one should not act a la GOP

To prove a point that isn't being made.

The article is talking about foreign aid, and when put in context, what Clark said makes perfect sense....that foreign aid (to assist foreign countries) is usual not found, while there seems to be an abundance of money for the Defense Machinery.........

Your post is deceiving, and it's unfortunate that propaganda may be your MO. This conference was attended by Clinton, Albright and Clark. Wow, now isn't that sinister? Actually I find that Clark keeps pretty good company.

the article, reads like this:
The event that has brought us all here is FORTUNE's third annual Brainstorm conference, this year co-sponsored with the Aspen Institute, which we started in 2001 as a way of filling up an issue of the magazine with some voices and ideas that don't normally make our pages...

And finally, the significant: There are a lot of weighty matters being discussed here at Brainstorm, but one that everyone keeps coming back to is the Iraq war in particular and U.S. foreign policy in general. That's what Clinton's mostly talking about—but like I said, I can't quote him. It was also the theme of the conference's opening session Monday night, and I can at least quote three of the four panelists from that discussion.

Albright, Clark, and Mahbubani all seemed okay in principle with the idea of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, but weren't thrilled with how the Bush administration had gone about it. Said Albright, "I always understood the why of the war but not the why now." (The fourth, Undersecretary of State for Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky, asked that her comments be kept off the record.) The topic was "Defining the New World Order," and while the panelists didn't succeed in doing so (who could?), I can offer a few choice words from each.

Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: "Some people in the U.S. don't like the U.N. and will never like the U.N. because it's full of foreigners, which frankly can't be helped."

Former general, possible Democratic presidential candidate, and Segway rider Wesley Clark on why the military usually gets the money it needs while foreign aid, for example, usually loses out: "In the Defense Department, we've got the machinery. When we want something done we just make sure the B-2 Bomber is built in 49 states."

[CivilRightsNow]

31. How you can take one piece out of context

And accuse me of skewing the message is absurd.

There is a shitload of information in this thread that points to some pretty compelling conclusions.

Im not point by pointing it with you. People can have the information and make sense of it themseleves.

[FubarFly]

15. If he's the nominee ,I'll still vote for him.

b*sh is an absolute evil and there is zero chance that Clark will be worse.

But if you know what he did for the NED please enlighten me. It had to do with Kosovo?...okay, back it up.

If it's such a simple thing to find out, then why is it so hard to get a straight answer?

On edit:

One of the reasons Dean's sealed records don't bother me, is because there is an existing public record of his entire five term tenure in Vermont. If Clark had a similar public record, I wouldn't be as worried.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Putting out an accusation....

and asking for a response is the easy thing to do. This Ned has been brought up many times on DU. So those that say it's never talked about are mistaken.

Clark was on it's board......I will research what he did...which may not have been anymore than being on the board. He was put there during KOSOVO......

But while I do this research, please tell me why Dean's records are sealed, why don't you? Nothing "Shady", I hope.

[FubarFly]

19. I'm not accusing Clark of anything.

I'm asking for information in a very civil manner.

My understanding of Dean's sealed records are that they are mostly letters and correspondances with the people of Vermont. If there was any evidence that there was actually something "shady" in them, then I might be concerned.

[FrenchieCat]

23. So Dean sealing his records.....

is not "Shady"????

Then why bother?

Amazing how one's "Shady" is another's vague "understanding of sealed records"....

Boggles no mind!

[FubarFly]

24. LOL

I'll answer yours, if you answer mine.

:P

[CivilRightsNow]

20. Kosovo?

http://www.kabissa.org/lists/newsletter-submissions-l/0612.html

He wasnt put there until 2001

Some more on Wesley and NED
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/88388.php

Clark praised Reagan for improving the military:

“We were really helped when President Ronald Reagan came in. I remember non-commissioned officers who were going to retire and they re-enlisted because they believed in President Reagan.” Clark continued: “That’s the kind of President Ronald Reagan was. He helped our country win the Cold War. He put it behind us in a way no one ever believed would be possible. He was truly a great American leader. And those of us in the Armed Forces loved him, respected him, and tremendously admired him for his great leadership.” (Ibid.)

Clark on President George H.W. Bush:

“President George Bush had the courage and the vision... and we will always be grateful to President George Bush for that tremendous leadership and statesmanship.” (Ibid.)


http://www.granma.cu/frances/2003/julio/mier23/29agee.html
More on what NED does and is doing... in french since there are alot more foreign sites discussing this then American. Wonder why.

[FrenchieCat]

26. So I read the French article.......

and in translating, there is not much here apart from original formation of NED and what it is currently doing in CUBA.

LES nouveaux programmes de Reagan pour la société civile ont commencé avec un immense succès en Pologne. Durant les années 80, The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) et la CIA, dans des opérations conjointes avec le Vatican, ont maintenu actif et en croissance le syndicat Solidarnosc quand il a été déclaré illégal durant la période de la loi martiale qui a commencé en 1981.

In translating: that the New Program from Reagan started as a huge success in Poland. In the 1980s, NED and the CIA, in joint operations with the Vatican became active in pushing the Soletarity movement in Poland during the period that the movement was declared illigal in 1981.

Le programme a été mis sur pris par Reagan et le pape Jean-Paul II lors de la visite de Reagan au Vatican en juin 2002. Ils l’ont fait avec des données des services de renseignement, de l’argent comptant, des fax, des ordinateurs, des équipements d’impression et de copie de documents, des enregistreuses, des téléviseurs et vidéos, des fournitures et équipements en tous genres y compris des transmetteurs de radios et de télévision, Le syndicat s’est transformé en un parti politique et, en 1989, encouragés par le dirigeant soviétique Mikhail Gorbatchev, Solidarnosc a pris le contrôle du gouvernement.

Translation: Reagan and the Pope Jean-Paul II used NED to provide services to the Soletarity movement by providing assistance in services such as photocopy machines, computers, televisions and vcr, etc...all of the trappings to employ effective communications. The Polish movement encouraged by Mikhail Gorbatchev new approach in the Soviet Union, took control of the Polish Govt. (in effect pushed the first domino that eventually freed soviet block countries from USSR)

Des années plus tard, en mai 2001, le sénateur Jesse Helms a présenté un projet de loi pour assigner 100 millions de dollars afin de répéter à Cuba, a-t-il dit, les succès de la CIA, de la NED et du Vatican en Pologne.

Translation: Many years later, in May 2001, Senator Jesse Helms presented a project of law that assigned 100 million dollars to repeat in Cuba, what he said said was the success of the CIA, NED and the Vatican in Poland.

The Rest of the articles talks about the Cuba and what is happening there covertly to attempt to undermine Castro.

To conclude, NED is an organization that is bi-partisan. There are Democratic and Republican projects. Some are great (i.e., poland and Tibet, and others...) some are terrible (the venenzuela Coup may have had funding from NED.....which gets his money from congress.

The AFL-CIO also participate in various projects.....

In the end, NED is 6 degrees of separation to just anyone in government. period.

[FrenchieCat]

29. In reference to my responding to the good old Smears.....

in the other articles......a lot of what's there has already been debunked....catch Harworth article in Maxim, and the others I posted here that shows not that Clark is no Brown noser as the articles you have posted claim. The article you posted quotes Hackworth prior to him meeting Wes Clark and taking back everything he said about him:

http://www.maximonline.com/grit/articles/article_5504.html
http://wesleyclark.h1.ru/departure.htm#top (12 articles 1999-2000)
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16795 - Elizabeth Drew
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh102703.shtml (page down till unbearable lightness of being).
http://www.spectator.org/article.asp?art_id=2003_3_27_22_49_18 (how Clark was ridiculed for his stance on the war during the war)

This is what Gene Lyons has to say about Wesley Clark's candidacy:
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/10/int03221.html

LYONS: What I wrote a long time ago was we didn't know if Clark had the "political hunger." We didn't know if his value as a symbol would be equaled by his value as a politician -- as an actual candidate with the nuts and bolts of going from town to town, trying to sell yourself to people.

And some of those unknowns I think have been allayed. I think what they call it in the army -- his command presence -- is very noticeable. When you meet him, even privately, one-on-one, or in small groups, his personal charisma, which is very real and also very different from Clinton's, is apparent.

It's also true that quality of command presence is partly theatrical. You get to be a general partly by acting like a general. You command respect by acting authoritatively. At the same time, he's affable and approachable.

Clark's intellectual brilliance may be more apparent than Clinton's, because Clark doesn't do the "aw-shucks Southern country boy" act the way Clinton can do it. So you're struck immediately with how intelligent he is. At the same time, he listens to people and pays attention to what they're saying, and responds like a human being.

I want to be careful how I say this, but he has an almost feline presence -- and by that I don't mean "catty," as in bitchy. I mean like a big cat. I once encountered a mountain lion in the Point Reyes National Seashore in California, on a rainy day in winter, when I was all by myself. We stood stock still staring at each other for a few seconds. And there was this moment of "Gee, that's a cougar, this is really cool." And then an instant later, came the feeling of "My God, that's a lion!" There's nothing between me and him, no fence. Clark has a little bit of that kind of presence. You sense a tremendous personal authority about him held in and contained by self-discipline. Not somebody to fuck with, is another way of putting it.

BUZZFLASH: You look at his background -- Rhodes scholar, decorated war hero, Supreme Commander of NATO. It gives him a unique position to criticize Bush on terrorism and the decision to invade and continue to occupy Iraq. It seems that his status allows him to make those criticisms without looking as political as the other candidates -- that Clark's basing his criticism on professional experience.

LYONS: I think that it's hard to depoliticize a candidacy. But I think one of his reasons for running is his very obvious personal ambition, and I think that's something he needs to be careful with. He's clearly a very ambitious person. He clearly thinks that he is among the best qualified people to be President of the United States in his generation. I happen to think he's probably right. But nevertheless, people don't always react well to that quality in people.

I do think his concerns are honest. I think his criticisms of Bush are exactly what he believes. One reason that I think that is I have had an opportunity to talk to him in a sort of a semi-private way.

Going all the way back to the summer of 2002, I got a sense of how strong his feelings about Iraq were. Long before it was clear that the administration was really going to sell a war on Iraq, when it was just a kind of a Republican talking point, early in the summer of 2002, Wesley Clark was very strongly opposed to it. He thought it was definitely the wrong move. He conveyed that we'd be opening a Pandora's box that we might never get closed again. And he expressed that feeling to me, in a sort of quasi-public way. It was a Fourth of July party and a lot of journalists were there, and there were people listening to a small group of us talk. There wasn't an audience, there were just several people around. There was no criticism I could make that he didn't sort of see me and raise me in poker terms. Probably because he knew a lot more about it than I did. And his experience is vast, and his concerns were deep.

He was right, too. How long ago was it that you were hearing all this sweeping rhetoric from the Project for a New American Century; that we were going to essentially conquer the south of Asia, contain China, and dominate the Middle East? And the United States was going to stand astride the world like a colossus. And all of a sudden, we invade a crummy, tin-pot, little third-rate dictatorship like Iraq, and we've already got more than we can handle. It's clear we're not going to dominate the world. And the question is, how in the world do we get out of there with our skins intact? And how do we then find a foreign policy that makes more sense?

BUZZFLASH: Do you think that the situation in Iraq is going to play a significant role in the 2004 election versus domestic issues and the economy?

LYONS: I think it is going to be a big issue. People want to know how in the world we're going to get out of there and not make things worse. I think everybody's nervous about a precipitous pullout, but there's also no reason to think things are going to be markedly better by next fall. I think it's already beginning to impact domestic issues, especially the question of the budget. I think that a lot of people who may not have felt this way before are beginning to center on the question, "Is Bush in over his head?"

[CivilRightsNow]

30. Dont you get it? NED is the original spinmaster

They have been holding elections.. fixing elections and bringing democracy where they want when they want for years.

They are corrupt, say whatever you wish.. pull in more positive press for Clark.

But the facts still stand. Your post isnt telling me anything I didnt know. It isnt debunking any of what Ive put forward.. the spun changed man.

I fear for this country if they do not start connecting the dots.

[CivilRightsNow]

21. One last bump

And then, Ill let it slip into the subconscious.

It really isnt that slow today. This is perplexing.

[FrenchieCat]

27. weather is not so good

in my area.....maybe many are experiencing the same thing.

[CivilRightsNow]

32. What is Frist doing today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=206969&mesg_id=206969

Frist Freezes Senate Probe of Prewar Iraq Data


By Walter Pincus and Dana Priest

Angry about a leaked Democratic memo, the Republican leadership of the Senate yesterday took the unusual step of canceling all business of the committee investigating prewar intelligence on Iraq.

Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) called on the author of the memo -- which laid out a possible Democratic strategy to extend the investigation to include the White House and executive branch -- to "identify himself or herself . . . disavow this partisan attack in its entirety" and deliver "a personal apology" to Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence.

Only if those steps are taken, Frist said, "will it be possible for the committee to resume its work in an effective and bipartisan manner -- a manner deserving of the confidence of other members of the Senate and the executive branch."

Roberts followed Frist on the floor and said that unless the Democratic members "properly" address the issue, "I am afraid that it will be impossible to return to 'business as usual' in the committee."

A committee meeting scheduled for yesterday was canceled, and none has been scheduled for next week, according to a senior committee staff member.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14010-2003Nov7.html


Go figure. NED Extraordinare.

[CivilRightsNow]

33. Bump

Oophs. :)

[FrenchieCat]

34. Really!!!!

These Sleuth should really, really use their conspiracy skills to expose the real story of this administration, instead of playing 6 degrees of separation!

[CivilRightsNow]

35. Yes, Really!

And you should really address the issues presented instead of playing the "dismiss someone's idea as an overactive imagination that is not with us, but against us" game.

This is not a hard concept to grasp if anyone only had the balls enough to look at all the information.

Look what Frist, a NED chair, is doing..

Look at the speech given by Bush to NED

Look at NEDs foundings, look at why the "think tank" was established. To further Reagan's psuedochristian right that wanted to kill the communists and send the kids to jail for drugs and build lots and lots of bombs and SDI and crap.

Look at the media war, the spin... the news black outs. NED helped the CIA do this in other countries for the last 20 years. They put out pamphlets during Kosovo, they helped sell Drugs to fund alot of their projects.. and the associations that they funnel money into are NUMEROUS. They gave birth to a bunch of baby think tanks who worked on how to put the glitz on things. What the perfect man to carry on their project was if X, Y, Z happened. They worked on how to spread their "democracy" through pamphlets to the people of Nicaragua. They worked on how to control situations through the media.

Does it not amaze you that when Bombing campaigns are going on in IRAQ again, we arent seeing them like that shock and aweing we got? We arent seeing them, because it wouldnt be good. Why are they using transport containers instead of body bags? Because some guy at a think tank thinks that we can spin the conditioning. Santitize, strucuralize.. make them see what you want.

NED is the brain of this cortex. I dont pretend to know just exactly what Wesley Clark is doing with them. But I sure as hell can see what they are doing with him.

[CivilRightsNow]

36. Maybe I am crazy...

I am starting to feel like I'm crazy. Everyone at DU loves a fight. Ive only incurred one Clark fan who takes this as a personal attack, even though that Clark is an insignificant point when faced with the bigger question of NED and the think tanks that our government is currently outsourcing our democracy to.

I do not think Im being incoherant. Im really not trying to instigate anything but for us to question things like NED and PNAC.. and Heritage group and a hundred other "think tanks".

I think about the true invention of a think tank. I think about how Reagan must have felt after being brought out of movies to power and then saved from an assasin by God's grace. He created the NED to spread "democracy", militant style with full on propaganda spin so thick people didnt know which way was up. Everyday, people here at DU post about the media and how they all seem coerced. Well, I think they are being coerced in the name of Political Correctness into doing what think tanks want. How many think tanks were there during the vietnam war. How bout pre-reagan? How about in comparison to today?

I mean, look at the report released before the whole Iraq war that was written by a "student", Ibrahim al-Marashi?

Do you know what he was a "student" of?
http://cns.miis.edu/cns/index.htm

The Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS) strives to combat the spread of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) by training the next generation of nonproliferation specialists and disseminating timely information and analysis. CNS at the Monterey Institute of International Studies is the largest nongovernmental organization in the United States devoted exclusively to research and training on nonproliferation issues.

His exact bio reads:
Ibrahim Marashi is a Research Associate at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS) of the Monterey Institute of International Studies. His research focuses on the diffusion of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons and missile technologies in the Middle East, particularly Iraq and Iran.

....
Snip (there is more at link below)
http://cns.miis.edu/cns/staff/mara.htm

He was staff at a think tank. Look at what the founder of that think tank does! Holy shit!
http://cns.miis.edu/cns/staff/wpotter.htm

Look at his areas of expertise. Look at their international board!

I think that is the danger of sending our government out to think tanks. There by, giving them the power to decide upon an issue and then advise our democratically elected officials on how they should act.

This is a whole stack of cards. How long before we start looking at the pieces?

Someone?

Anyone?

[Coldgothicwoman]

37. I so know I'm going to get yelled at...

Umm...what is 'NED'? And of the ten million links presented, could someone offer a primer link or suggest one for someone who's never heard of it?

Preferably without yelling at me? :P

[CivilRightsNow]

38. I do apologize, Im not yelling.

Im just a bit passionate. Ive been harping on this for awhile and nobody will even rationally discuss it.

NED is the National Endowment for Democracy. It was a think tank created by Ronald Reagan to help spread his views of democracy all over the world.

www.ned.org

NED has long been a front for the CIA and their little covert operations in spreading democracy all over the world. The members of NED look a little questionable, if you read their works and realize that these think tanks are the ones that our government consults with. These think tanks create public policy and direct propaganda. There are links all throughout this thread that can verify these claims.. just pick any of them and start there. :)

I know there is alot of information, but if you go through it, there are patterns that are cause for concern. I know everyone has been saying that the administration is corrupt for years and I just wonder if we aren't underestimating the current administration and their tenacity to spread their "democracy".

[Coldgothicwoman]

39. Thank you!

I hadn't meant to imply anyone was yelling yet, I just didn't want to be the first to start it. :toast: :D

Thank you for the link, now its time to educate myself some more.

:grouphug: