True Democracy, Policy and Dean

[andym]

I like the idea that Governor Dean allowed
his supporters to vote on whether or not to
opt out of campaign financing.

Does anyone think that if Governor Dean became
President, he would open up policy decisions
to the masses: that he would pose two
extreme solutions to a policy question, and
them allow the American public to vote on it,
perhaps using the internet, with some kind
of AA to help those without internet access
to vote?

In other words, a move toward real democracy (
from the staid Republic that is America).

Would any of our candidates do this?

[Demobrat]

Of course he will do that. He will have to.

It's called reelection. Once he is president, Dean will have no choice but to dance with the ones who brung him. He will need us again in four years, remember?

[bread_and_roses]

29. since he has rejected

public financing, should he be the nominee the "one's who brung him" are far more likely to be big campaign donors than "us". Most corps donate to Dems as well as Republicans, covering all the bases.

[MrSoundAndVision]

1. Only the ones who will do it now

Without it being law, allowing for a fair election. What's stopping Dean from using a similar excuse to leave the current system in place and manipulate it to get re-elected in 2008?

[HFishbine]

2. Maybe

But we don't have a direct democracy for a reason. Nobody has the time to be as informed as possible on all the issues. That's why we elect representatives (supposedly).

Can you imagine a public vote on something like allowing stem cell research? An issue that should be decided on scientific reasons, should not be decided by legions of people who don't undertand it. (or who can't even spell.)

[andym]

4. stem cell research

Yes,
You make a very good point. On most technical issues
at least, having experts make informed decisions is usually advantageous.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

3. I hope that never happens

Imagine what would happen if that were done now? Scary! Our lives would be at the mercy of PR; you thought Fox news was bad!
We need checks and balances. We need a populace who isn't lazy and cares about issues enough to do their homework. We need a media who isn't afraid to do their jobs. We need people who care about what goes on in the world outside of their wallets. We need accountability.
We are not ready for that.

[ibegurpard]

11. OMG! I totally agree with you!

Just look at how the citizen initiative process has been subverted in places like Oregon and California. Bad, bad idea!

[mtulipan]

5. Public finance system is broke

The system doesn't work- $250 matching funds for $2K contribution. Why not just get another $2K. Bush is raising $80 million for a primary fight that doesn't exist. He's counting on the Dem nominee to be out of money (the way Dole was in '96) and unable to fight back.

I'm not the biggest Dean fan (he's not electable at this point), but he needed to opt-out. You need to fight a war on the same level as your enemy. Dean's strength is his guerilla insurgency, so to speak, and the fanatacism of his followers.

This is a war, to be sure. Dems and Liberals can no longer stand by why the country is hijacked. That is all that matters now- campaign finance reform will live or die by the courts.

Michael Tulipan
Executive Producer
OutrageRadio.com
Liberal Talk Radio with Attitude

[Eric J in MN]

9. the war analogy

The problem with the war analogy is that people might say: anything goes because this is war.

This is an election. We have elections for local or federal offices every year. This is an especially important election, but it's not war.

Right-wing talk-show hosts like Bill O'Reilly and Dennis Prager like to use the word "war" to describe the struggle between American conservatives and liberals, and I don't like it when they characterize it that way, and I don't think liberals should characterize it that way.

[Eloriel]

17. What makes you think he's not electable?

I see people intoning that mantra as if it had some basis in reality, but they never bother to support it with any facts or even decent opinions.

What's your rationale for that?

Eloriel

[newyawker99]

23. Hi mtulipan!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[drfemoe]

30. Hi mtulipan

:party:

welcome to DU .. :hi:

[andym]

6. You have the power

I guess I asked this question to better
understand what Dean means by "You
have the power."

I understand this to mean that we
(as individuals) will have
power to influence elections (
to fight "special interests" etc)
by supporting candidates we like,
using the internet to help bind us
together.

But How far does this go?
Does it extend to policy?
etc etc

How much power do we have?
or should we have?

[Upfront]

7. Dean Would

listen to all sides on the issue and then make the correct choice. He would not throw policy decisions open to vote. He has said the buck stops with the President, and in his case, it will. The American people like us, will like his decisions.

[blm]

8. Yeah. Change the Constitution.

.

[slinkerwink]

10. the problem with representatives in Congress is that....

they are beholden to special interests, not the people. I've seen many representatives in Congress draft bills that fit the needs of the special interests, and "spin" those bills madly to their constituents. The constituents always fall for that, hook, line and sinker. We really need direct democracy in some aspects....

[Scott Lee]

12. Agree! Which is why "Direct Democracy" is becoming ...

more attractive over time. Whether you love Dean or hate him, you have to admit that the way the guy has used the internet, and some basic direct democracy ideas, is inspiring.

[slinkerwink]

13. Congress should give us national referendums like state governments in...

California and other states...

[QC]

16. I used to think that referenda were a good idea

until I saw the abuses of them by the right in this country.

Gay people in states that have the referendum are now having to defend their basic civil rights every time some pack of fanatics collects enough signatures to get on the ballot. California had the best public school system in the world until Prop. 13 came along and in major part created the financial hardship that allowed Arnold Schwarzenegger to become governor in another perversion of direct democracy.

And we live in a country where 55% of voters still believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that George W. Bush is the cat's pajamas.

Direct democracy has its dangers.

[QC]

15. The problem with the people is that...

many of them are easily swayed by a few slick tv ads.

Remember how something so lame as "Harry and Louise" sank national health care, probably for decades?

This is why the idea of submitting everything to a popular vote quite frankly scares me. We have seen again and again that when the political discourse is as degraded as it is in this country, any special interest with an advertising budget can steer the debate any way it wants to.

[ibegurpard]

18. Absolutely!

I lived in Oregon for many years and have seen the devastation wrought by these "citizen initiatives." Yes, good things have been done but, in my opinion, the bad outweighs the good and something needs to be done to rein it in. I won't sign a petition for ANY ballot measure, even if it sounds like something I might agree with. There should be some kind of check to make sure that the issue has been tried through the legislative process before it can be put on the ballot. It has also paralyzed the state legislature...they won't take accountable stands on anything, instead preferring to refer everything remotely controversial directly to the voters.

[QC]

19. Yep. I referred to the homophobe initiatives in another post.

In every state that has the power of the initiative, gay people have to fight the same battles for basic rights over and over. It wears activists out and wastes resources that could be used for moving ahead rather than just fighting not to fall behind.

[w13rd0]

14. The problem is two-fold...

...how to have "direct democracy" while maintaining the planning required to advance "long term visions". The ebb and flow, the amount of information, these are not conducive to the advancement of a vision that encompasses seasons, never mind generations. But at the same time, we want to get people involved with a direct democracy so that they become more well-informed, and participate in the long term vision. We're making good moves in that direction.

[KittyWampus]

20. Oh Goodie, Government By Referendum

It does so well in California.....

This is a REPUBLIC... a particular type of Democracy. Perhaps you'd like to change the Constitution?

And Dean certainly made it clear that he wanted to opt out of matching funds...

How nice of him to do that BEFORE the vote. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

21. Oops

[Skwmom]

22. Just what we need. The uniformed masses making critical

decisions.

[mandyky]

24. Not on everything, but

I do see a blog for the White House when Dean gets elected.

[janx]

25. Well, we are a democratic republic...so the

elected officials will still continue to (or we hope begin to) express our will as a people.

But I do think that Dean will probably keep the lines open to the people directly, if that's what you mean.

[depakid]

26. When Dean is elected then "Notice & Comment"

will actually mean something again and we will all have some sway with the admistrative agencies. Under a Dean administration, no way do hundreds of thousands of written comments go ten to one aganist a agency's proposed rulemaking- and the rule still go forward, even against the will of a majority Congress.

That's how it's going to happen- via the proper procedures, slowly, piecemeal and incrementally, not through large (and unconstitutional) plebiscites.

[AP]

27. As with Dean's vote, whatever potentially makes the most money

for the person who controls the means of communicating the issue, is the side that wins referenda.

[Name removed]

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