Dean burdens supporters to justify switch against campaign financing

[phirili]

The candidate told his supporters, “This decision is no longer mine to make. This is a campaign of the people, by the people and for the people… The fate of this campaign rests in your hands, and I believe the future of our American democracy rests on your decision”


http://www.thehill.com/story.asp?id=136

All this talk of taking responsibilty, and being principled; seems like Dean changed his "judgment" when the funds started flowing in.

This is similar to the way Bush dances for his corporate sponsors, no principle, just submit to the will of the donors.

Stand up Dean and say "I changed my mind ..." for whatever reason, and avoid weaseling out by claiming the decision is no longer yours.

[artr2]

1. Here we go - the 5th thead today bashing Dean for funding

Do we really need another thread? Hasn't this been bashed enough? or do you Dean haters need another fix of hate??

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. you know i have the same reaction to people whining about

Dean haters as i do about people whining about bush haters.

cop out....trying to dismiss valid critique...........

[MessiahRp]

40. Actually this site is loaded with pro-Dean posts....

considering how much you all get on Kerry this is more than acceptable conversation...

Rp

[PVnRT]

44. "how much you all get on Kerry"

Please - I see far more anti-Dean posts here than anti-Kerry. Much, much more, in fact. Maybe you ought to take a look around before going into martyr mode.

[cavebat2000]

2. You might be right.

But does it really matter?

[cavebat2000]

3. I agree art

It must be the kerry in all of them! ;)

[robsul82]

5. Truly.

*shivers*

Later.

RJS

[unfrigginreal]

4. LOL...

Yeah, I feel real burdened for supporting Dean.:eyes:

[Upfront]

24. I Plan To

be burdened all the way to the White House. Dean and his supporters are not screwing around, we mean to win. Every time I send in a $100 the burden gets lighter. lol;-)

[Khephra]

6. I never thought voting would be called a "burden"

And it is a grassroots campaign in the strongest sense of the word. Too bad he didn't let some failed advisor decide for him, huh?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

12. Yeah maybe we should get Gephardts people to run his campaign!

They could teach Dean a little about kissing ass in the Rose Garden.

Or maybe Kerry's:

They could pose Dean on a Harley and in a leather jacket.

Or Lieberman's:

They could show him how to alienate people and lose.

[Scott Lee]

37. Indeed - should we all not "burden" ourselves to oust Bush?

Excellent point.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

7. The Dems can't afford to lose this one

While I don't agree with it at all on principle I can understand it. The front runner has to find ways to rake in the money. Look at how much Bush has raised; an obscene amount. Since this country's run on PR, we need the funding to fight back. Wait until next summer/fall, it's going to get really ugly. The front runner (Dean or not) has to play the game and get Bush out. Bush must go.
If we don't like that game, we need to stop giving lip service to campaign finance reform and do something about it.

[slinkerwink]

8. I sure as heck won't be "burdened" by voting for Dean in the primaries....

because he's worth every damn penny!

:smile:

[w4rma]

9. Us supporters have to foot the bill and bring in others to help.

The burden was always on us. I'm glad the choice was ours, also.

[Rose Siding]

10. Can you elaborate?

"This is similar to the way Bush dances for his corporate sponsors, no principle, just submit to the will of the donors."

I don't know how you'll get past the part where you try to explain how it's bad to be accountable to the voters/supporters.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

11. I suppose you think he should limit himself to public funds?

What exactly are you saying?

Bush doesn't fight fair, we shouldn't either. Rove brings a gun, we bring a fucking bazakoo. Rove brings a daisycutter, we bring a goddman nuke.

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. i want him to stand up like a man annd explain why he has changed

his position about campaign finance instead of hidding behind a vote which is hardly in doubt.

leaders lead.

[Upfront]

26. I Am Sure

if you try you can think of a reason. Need help, (clue), We plan to through Bush* out on his lying butt. It will take more money then matching funds provide. Do you want to be part of the solution or part of the problem. I wonder? Dean 1st, then ABBB.

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. did i say i didn't think he should opt out?

No, i didn't. please reread what i did say and respond to that.

[HFishbine]

29. So if Kerry does the same

You'll applaud him for not consulting with his supporters?

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. there is a big difference between consulting

and hiding behind. one question....was there any doubt, in your mind,
which way that vote was going to go? since it was, imho, a forgone conclusion, what was the purpose?

[PVnRT]

42. A foregone conclusion

Funny that someone not supporting the Dean campaign has all this amazing inside information.

It's funny - when asked if Kerry had done something, what would you think, you call it consulting. Dean does it, and it's "hiding behind."

[Scott Lee]

46. How are you so sure?

It sounds like you're doing a lot of supposin' here.

Do you have any evidence to prove that Dean never intended to go along with anything outside of his own will?

[Scott Lee]

36. Perhaps you'd prefer autocratic one mindedness?

Would that be better? Yes, we'll ask that Dean behave like "Who cares what you think" Bush instead. OK?

[Scott Lee]

13. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't

You antiDean frothers are hilarious.

Would you prefer that Dean get socked in to a 45 million dollar cap, fighting a president who will exceed 100 million by summer?

Would you prefer that Dean continue to kiss the dimpled asses of the DNC establishment types, and continue with a now clearly inferior tactic of being constrained by public campaign monies?

Are you so angry at Dean for OUTPOLLING and OUTFUNDRAISING your guys that you're all about shooting off your own foot in favor of President War?

Do you not know the difference between being beholden to large corporations and special interests (Bush), and being beholden to the PEOPLE who support and finance you (Dean)?

Wake up. Grow up. Before I THROW up.

[ibegurpard]

14. I think the answer to all of your questions is yes.

n/t

[robsul82]

15. Heheh, that last line...

...sounds Ragin' Cajun-esque. ;) Good job!

Later.

RJS

[Scott Lee]

16. LOL - I dig Carville

If for no other reason than he has a pair, and is ready to prove it at any time.

[mouse7]

39. Almost No Money + No Money = buku campaign cash? Duh, no.

The math DOES NOT work.

I doesn't matter how much Dean convinces his supporters to give. There is not enough money on the progressive side of the ledger to come close to even getting half of Bush's total.

Conservative ALWAYS are more free with political donations according to every possible measurement.

THE ONLY ANSWER is participating in the process which creates a campaign finance system that is fair and is impossible to opt-out of.

[PVnRT]

43. So, what? Just give up?

That seems to be the nature of your argument. We can't raise enough money, so what's the point? Sounds awfully defeatist to me. How in hell would you get a fair campaign finance system without getting Bush and his buddies out of office first? Do you really think that they and the GOP would go along with that? Think again.

[MGKrebs]

47. Unfortunatley, the opponent has already opted out.

So we can continue to play by rules as we want them to be, and lose, or play by the rules that ARE, and give ourselves a chance to win.

[PVnRT]

18. Oh, please

Exactly how in hell do you draw this comparison? Dean rallying his supporters = Bush dancing for corporate whores?

Give me a break. Those statements alone are enough to tell me that this post is bullshit.

[realFedUp]

20. It's kinda like giving at church....

You set a goal and rise to the challenge of meeting
it because you want to see certain ministries strong
enough to do some good in the community. A lot
of people putting into the same basket for the greater good.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. I think Dr. Dean

did the right thing. He put it to his supporters to decide. NOTHING wrong with that.

[Rose Siding]

23. McCain, CFR champion agrees-

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a champion of campaign finance reform and former presidential candidate, said in light of Bush’s fundraising records and the current federal matching fund rules, Dean’s decision is “probably the right one.”

http://www.thehill.com/story.asp?id=136

Now, I never go looking for McCain's opinion but he is up on campaign finance reform. I could swear I also saw a critical, contradictory statement he made today but I can't find it.

[retyred]

22. deleted

No, not gonna go there!



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[mzmolly]

25. Well, it sure beats the BURDEN of another 4 years of Bush in the OO

because we were too proud to decline matching funds.

I'll gladly accept the alternative burden, thanks!

[Classical_Liberal]

27. He didn't force me to vote, so how am I burdened.

? This really looks pathetic. It is nitpicking.

[HFishbine]

28. Yeah, Burden me Dean baby!

Burden me!

[Demobrat]

30. If this is what a burden feels like

I can't wait until we start having fun!

[LizW]

31. You're somewhat new,

so I guess you might not have heard this decision explained. CNN gave a very coherent explaination right before the announcement, as did Governor Dean in his speech.

Dean supports public financing of campaigns. However, the current system does not work in the situation where the incumbent is able to raise so much money by selling access that he can opt out, and the others can't. The incumbent can spend, spend, spend while those who opt to take public financing run up against the spending cap, and will be defenseless for months against the relentless television advertising of the incumbent.

Dean put the question to a vote of his supporters because opting out means we must commit to give what it takes to be competitive with Bush. I have no problem with this, and I can't imagine why it would be seen as a burden. Those who can afford to give to Dean's campaign will do so. Others will donate their time and energy. Many others will simply vote. The goal is to get George Bush out of the White House, and the ONLY way that is going to happen is if we are competitive financially. No matter how much we may support campaign finance reform, it would be foolish to willingly cripple ourselves by accepting public funding when we know we can raise the money ourselves.

[ldf]

35. excellent post!

what you said...
:-)

[JNelson6563]

33. Similar but different

This is similar to the way Bush dances for his corporate sponsors, no principle, just submit to the will of the donors.

Nice meme-planting dear. Dean=Bush. Funkenstein's got nothin' on you!! haha I foresee meme-planting envy.....;-)

The difference is, since apparently it evades you, Bush's donors are corporate fascists. Dean's are just plain people. We aren't coporate fat-cats who can send in checks for $2000 from every member of our family.

If you are so interested in this issue why not find out the breakdown of donations between Bush and Dean? You will see an amazing contrast. If you are capable, that is.

Julie

[CWebster]

38. You have a problem with this?

Typical of Dean bashers to make a negative about a positive when trying to compare the average 70 dollar donor with the corporations who spend billions to buy government and drown out the peoples' voice.

It pleases me that Dean consulted his base and your post ain't nothing but shit.

[PVnRT]

41. It doesn't matter what the decision was

it would have been spun as criticism. If Dean had decided himself to forego public financing, it would have been "Dean puts burden of campaign on supporters." If the vote had been to get public financing, it would have been "Dean supporters not committed enough to support their candidate." If he had decided himself to get public financing, it would have been "Dean decides to suck down public funds despite raising a lot of money."

I'm glad he is going along with the will of his supporters too.

[Scott Lee]

45. I'm sure Dean is crying all the way to the nomination

This has to be breaking his heart.