Ralph Redux? Green Leaders Say NO!

[BurtWorm]

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20031124&s=sifry



Ralph Redux?
by MICAH L. SIFRY





"I don't think Ralph Nader should run again," says Elizabeth Horton Sheff, one of the party's slowly increasing number of African-American elected officials. Sheff, the majority leader of the Hartford, Connecticut, city council, adds, "Our message of grassroots inclusion did not get through with this candidate. His appeal is not broad enough to reach my community." (Indeed, Nader only got 1 percent of the African-American vote in 2000, compared with his 3 percent overall. Even in Democratic strongholds like Washington, DC, where Nader reached 5 percent, he only got one in one hundred black votes.) Arguing that Nader reaches mainly progressive and middle-class whites, Sheff insists that the party doesn't even need a presidential candidate, concluding, "We should run someone only if they have a proven track record appealing to a cross section of America."

Larry Barnett, a Green who is the former mayor of Sonoma, California, and a current member of its city council, calls any presidential bid "an ego-centered exercise in futility." He asserts that the party is making steady inroads in local electoral politics that can eventually sustain more serious campaigns for higher office. "In the meantime, wasting its time in races that are unwinnable only detracts from its message, its long-term goals and current accomplishments," he says. Art Goodtimes, a county commissioner in San Miguel, Colorado, who was elected as a Democrat in 1996, switched to Green in 1998 and won re-election with 69 percent of the vote in 2000, strongly agrees: "If we're serious about advancing a national candidate, we have to begin to win at the local levels in numbers far exceeding the mere 175 or so local officials currently calling themselves Green."

Other concerns are being raised by well-known Green activists who want the party to present a united front against Bush's re-election. At the party's national committee meeting in Washington this July, John Rensenbrink, one of its founders, spoke to me with pained intensity as he, to all effects, denounced Nader, whom he had vociferously backed in 2000, for toying with a 2004 run.

"People...are very focused on stopping the right-wing cabal that has taken over the country. Therefore, the focus has to be on defeating Bush. Beyond that, the Green Party needs to project a sense of urgency around saving the country, saving the Constitution, saving the planet." Rensenbrink, the co-editor of Green Horizon Quarterly (www.green-horizon.org), a new and lively independent Green journal, added with a sigh, "There's a concern that we'll be deflected from that message because of the baggage Ralph Nader has from 2000. I doubt he can get over 1 percent of the vote. He'll have to spend a lot of time dealing with the 'spoiler' question, unfairly, but that's where it is. I'd add to that that he doesn't want to be a Green, he runs with his coterie rather than party organizers, he doesn't involve local Green leaders and he doesn't get the racial issue. I fear if Nader runs, he'll drag down every other Green in this country. I love him, but this is sheer practical politics."

[Forkboy]

1. The Greens I know

all five of them,dont want him to run either.

[matcom]

2. Greens get it! they FINALLY get it!

start local Greenies. build slowly.

hell you probably will get MY vote.

one step at a time and someday the WH will be yours. i promise.

thank you.

[knight_of_the_star]

10. That's what we've been doing

Nader doesn't even properly represent the party anyway. Most of my fellow Greens want to unite behind whoever the Dems nominate.

[aquart]

24. Hell, that's how the repubs took NY.

District by district by school board.

Nice to know the Greens ain't Ralphie's rubber stamps.

[ajacobson]

3. Process Rigged

I believe that most GP activists (of which I was one until WKC entered the race) want to build from below. Unfortunately in the rotten f'k electoral system in most states, you have to pull a certain amount of votes in Presidential or Gubernatorial elections to get/keep ballot status. So you'll see a lot of GP people supporting a Presidential race that they really don't want.

If the Demo policy makers were smart, they would push for Instant Runoff Voting everywhere. Greens could cast their first round vote for the GP candidate and support the more viable Demo candidate in the second round. That would throw another 2-3% nationally to the Demos, that would be the WH and probably the Senate too.

For more about IRV see the Center for Voting and Democracy at www.fairvote.org.

Alan in Detroit

[Iverson]

4. Hey, Alan.

Glad to see you here. In case no one has said it yet, welcome aboard.
- Clark

[_NorCal_D_]

5. YES!

B-)

[Terwilliger]

6. Well, I hope they can find a candidate for president that will...

generate any interest.

Kucinich is a Democrat who's been in all the debates and he has miniscule poll numbers.

I hope the Greens realize that they will be self-marginalizing.

[ErasureAcer]

7. His polls numbers are registered democrats only...

Kucinich has more support from voters than 2%.

[Terwilliger]

8. That's nice

when he's out of the race and there's very little left to vote for, let me know how you feel

[raysr]

9. Nader

I've heard Dennis say Nader and he are good friends, go way back, helped him in Cleveland etc. But with 50% against Dimbulb and 44% for, who is Nader working for? That ain't much wiggle room. Just got a glimpse of a CNN poll "if you had to choose today, Bush/Dickhead 49% Dean and whoever 47%. Just caught a glimpse, but Bush was 49. Hire a good hooker and send Ralph to Cancun for a couple of years.

[Terwilliger]

11. a good hooker?

And Bill Clinton is a perverted morally-bankrupt scumbag

Why don't you people get a clue!?!?

[raysr]

14. Morality

This bullshit faux morality is what he other side uses to suit it's needs. IT WAS A JOKE! Go back to church!

[West Coast Democrat]

19. Exactly Why Self-Professed "Greens" Should Register as

Democrats. How can they possibly think Dennis can get meaningful support, or a shot at the nomination, if Greens are unwilling to register as Democrats?

[BurtWorm]

12. kick

[ShaneGR]

13. Thank you god, some Greens are finally using their BRAINS!

If they're ever going to have any power, they need to stop re-electing Bush... and work on their local races.

[Terwilliger]

15. when was Bush elected?

you mean for Governor in 96?

[Ernesto]

16. This has to be the best news of the day!

Maybe there is intelligent life in the green party after all. I would genuinely be ashamed of myself if I had voted for Nader in 2000.

[ludwigb]

17. I visited to the Green Quarterly website

And I admire what they are trying to do over there, though I think they would be better off working with us. However, the the comments to the articles there were truly stunning. An example....

http://www.green-horizon.org/archives/000026.shtml


Kucinich has neither the funding nor the grass-roots organizational framework that will allow him to become even a credible "dark horse" within the Democratic Party presidential race. He will fail, and the candidacies of Mosely-Braun and Sharpton shall fail as well. They shall fail because they were fated to fail from the start. This thing is fixed. Not one of these three candidates can possibly counter the full weight of those established Democratic Party machines in each and every state that shall be brought to bear, poised against them. The Democratic Party's own internal structure, together with the very design of the primary process, has already disqualified their candidacies.


Just stunning.... Does this guy really believe the Dean campaign is being funded by corporate types? That any of the front-runners are basing their policies on corporate bribes? That the Democratic Party structure is really in cohoots with big buisness? That Kucinich is likely to have more success running as a Green in the general election than in the Democratic primaries?

I can't believe I wasted so much time arguing with these people back in 2000. It may sound cold, but we should ignore them and focus our efforts on convincing ordinary Americans (that is, swing voters) to vote Democrat. I know from expirience that it is a waste of our time and will only sow frustration. Maybe send them occasional articles with particuarly rational arguments or ones making fun of their myopic stupidity--but keep in mind that the more time you spend trying to convince someone like this, the more they labor to justify their illusions and retreat into their dream world.

[Terwilliger]

18. oh, absolutely...please do ignore them

that way there will be no one else to blame

[Iverson]

20. re: your source

This is directly from it.

Notes About Green Horizon Quarterly
One thing we need to be clear about from the start. ... The journal is not a promoter of a particular partisan political party; for example in the manner of Green Pages which goes to bat for the United States Green Party and is an organ of that party. We do not fit that role.

http://www.green-horizon.org/notes.shtml

[raysr]

21. Greens

My sister in law voted for Nader in 2000. Hangs her head now when asked about it. I think Ralph is A-OK but it just ain't the time for a 3rd party to be a contender. Too bad for that too.

[blackwalnut]

23. Ignoring Greens

It may sound cold, but we should ignore them and focus our efforts on convincing ordinary Americans (that is, swing voters) to vote Democrat.

Maybe that's part of the problem -- ignoring the so-called "fringe" element. It is because of being ignored all my life -- no matter how perceptive or cogent I was -- that long ago I quit caring what other folks said about me or my ideas and went my own way. It has been -- and still is -- painful a lot of times -- yes indeed -- but it is why I eventually have been able to find some semblence of joy.

I don't know how to really put this -- so I'll just be as spontaneous as I can. I voted for Nader last time around, and I'm not ashamed of it. For individuals like me who have never found anything remotely warm -- or anything thing slightly "resonant" in the mainstream world -- Nader was the only choice that seemed even closely logical. His authenticity is remarkable -- he's not a politician or a "role player." That is what irks the mainstream to no end, and why he cannot win as long as that mindset dominates the country.

And yes, it is cold what you say -- which is why it doesn't have the least persuasive power to me. It would be like criticizing Preston Tucker for trying to build and market his "ahead-of-its-time-so-much-it's-pathetic" auto back in the fifites, the "tin goose" as it was disdainfully dubbed by the mainstream. "You're just trying to take the market away from the half-ass-decent cars! Spoiler!! Leave us alone! Quit interfering in our golden path to mediocrity!!"

Does this guy really believe the Dean campaign is being funded by corporate types?

I don't know about Dean's campaign -- but the Democratic Party has always been funded largely by corporate giants -- though not as much as the Republicans.

During the last presidential election The Nation published the sources of both the main party's funding. The Democrats (and obviously the Republicans) were bothfunded largely by corporate giants -- notably oil companies (no surprise there!). And one of Gore's major source of funding was Arco. Why deny the obvious? If Dean is an exception, and if he is an honest democrat, why hasn't he boldly asserted his campaign's freedom from corpoate funding from the beginning? Why would he (and other Democrats) not put his "best foot forward"? Why hide one's best qualities (if they are indeed one's qualities at all)?

You can never change society or yourself for the better by letting the "ends justify the means." Only by seeing that the "ends ARE the means" can you (or I, or anyone) fathom "The PROBLEM" with society and the world.

None of this should be taken as implying that the Democratic (oveall) party is worse than the Republicans (overall). It isn't. But it could be much better than it is and has been. Bush's rampant degeneration has finally elicited a more principled response from the Democrats. One can see some slight improvement -- but only slightly, and that may be fading as the various candidates continue to slash at one other and use the other's dead body to step up to the nomination. One must wonder how committed (and for how long) the more principled response (or what's left of it even now) will last. It seems to be just another "fluctuation in the vaccum state" and not -- as it should be -- something coming from deep inside the people involved. The desire to put down other candidates seems more salient than any deep, abiding disgust with Bush, Enron, East Timor's invasion, the SOA, the Drug WAR, bad gas mileage, mercury from burning coal, racist hate groups etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Is this lack of love for the good supposed to "captivate" or "enchant" me?

Bush's satanic qualites should have shaken the better part of the population to its very roots and made them realize that you can't dilly-dally around forever (as the Democratic party has done for past century) and not expect environmental, economic, and foreign policy degradation and destruction to increase like crazy.

(Kucinich is the one exception to all this, however. He alone is an adequate substitute for Nader -- assumming you really care about the problems facing us, of course -- which is doubtful. Most folks, very early in life, decide that the situation is largely and absolutely hopeless, and spend the rest of their lives operating on the assumption that you can only get a small measure of what is really needed. Thus, even at their best, things continue to decline overall. Which is why we now have the worst president ever.)

[Scott Lee]

22. Aw DAMN....that means no reason to whine about Nader!

What WILL they do????

[jenk]

25. Dear Ralph

You're too old

the green party is dying

this election is too important for you to screw with

go away

[John_H]

26. Whaaaaat? Greens with brains? Maybe I'll have to rethink my position...

And to think I've been chuckling at how delightfully dumb they seemed letting Wal-mart ralph's ego hijack and destroy their party. Maybe they're starting to get it.