As much as I disagreed with Dean on his confederate flag flop....

[doubles]

I admire his fighting spirit, the guy really has some huge huevos. He will not bow under Repug attack like some other Dems, he reminds me of Big Dawg in that regard, he's not the type to run and hide when attacked. He knows the best defense is a good offense!

[Hieronymus]

1. I agree with

what he said. It upset Southerners, both white and black, but it needed to be said. We need to broaden our base,middle class and poor southerners must stop voting against their own interests.:kick:

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Really?

And yet, my husband, the Southerner, wasn't upset, knew exactly what he was trying to say and sent him another $100.00 for his bravery in addressing an issue that has, for so long, sorely needed to be addressed.

[workenstiff]

7. Dean got more money from me

after the confederate thing. Although I've known about these comments since April, and so have all the hypocrits who waited until now to denounce him.

Al Sharpton is an idiot. I wish he was excluded from the debates.
Dean should choose Carol Mosely Braun for VP

[Don_G]

9. No

Either Clark or better Rockefeller (2 term Governor and current Senator.)

[HPLeft]

3. He has huevos where he should have brains...

Did you hear his recent statement during the Planned Parenthood forum, suggesting economic sanctions against Saudi Arabia? Gee, I wonder what that would do to the price of oil, and the economic recovery? How does a $35-$45 a barrel price sound to you, long-term?

Dean must be making this stuff up as he goes along. His entire candidacy is built on emotion and attitude, and exploiting certain Democratic voters' desperation for someone who mirrors than anger.

[w4rma]

4. FYI, 8 of the 15 9.11 hijackers were Saudi nationals (n/t)

[JackRiddler]

5. 8 of the 15?

Wow, that is a radical revision of the 9/11 story! Thanks.

[Cha]

18. I thought it was ...all but two of the 19! Or

did I remember that wrong?

[pretzel4gore]

6. there were no hijackers w4rma...

not in the way the busheviks try to say....
try draw back from the staged news to see the 'big pic' as bushinc doesn't want us to....the arabs are hardly the richest, most powerful and dangerous people, not compared to the pigs running fox and cnn (plus rest of massa media) so why waste time/energy on them...
when they shot down KAL 007 in '83 they (massa media) danced up and down saying the 'evil empire' Russia is meaner then anyone, really bad, so let reagan and bushinc run up the cost of US military on credit card...which infants in the cradle can pay later for the fatso grunting pigs' feast (i hate gluttonous ratwingers) as you may suspect.
One of the reasons the FBI refuse to change their nonsensical '19 WTC hijackers' (2 of them are active airline pilots ferchrissake!) is that the mantra 'wtc 19 arab hijackers' must be re-inforced or the 'big lie' may start collapsing.
One thing for sure, which dwarfs any difference with the Democratic candidates is this: THe Busheviks, and their agents in media/fbi/cia etc HATES US TOTALLY!

[quaker bill]

8. I support some action against the Saudi's as well.

Oil is fungible. Unilateral sanctions on Saudi oil would be pointless as they would simply sell it elsewhere. On the other hand, perhaps we could quit arming them?

On the other hand Kerry seems to have chick peas in the location where huevos are normally called for.

[slinkerwink]

14. ::laughs:;

chickpeas? omg...too funny...

[Cha]

16. "chickpeas"....lol! I will forever remember

that description!

[HPLeft]

24. I think his Vietnam experience put that one to rest...

as opposed to Dean's skiing trip.

[Cha]

26. Nah! It didn't "put it to rest" at all...if

Dean chose to get on with his life in the '60's and '70's ..more power to him. Valor isn't just on some stinking battlefield in an ill gotten war. All that Dean has done in his life has gotten him where he is today! Much braver than kerry who didn't have the "huevos" to say "no" to bush and his ill gotten war.

edit~to put quote marks in the right place~

[HPLeft]

29. I don't think that we'll ever agree

...about the qualities that make a man admirable. So, I'll just leave it at that.

[Cha]

33. you got that right.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. You seem to be rather ignorant of many things.

Not least of which is that oil price per barrel is headed up to the $35-45 range within the foreseeable future (Google "petroleum depletion curve", see what comes back). Only a brain-damaged fool would expect the price of a limited resource, fast approaching depletion, with demand increasing annually, to remain constant or go down.

Not to mention the ties of many members of Saudi Arabia's royal family to terrorist organisations....and the Saudi royal family IS the Saudi government, for all intents and purposes.

And what "economic recovery"? You mean the "recovery" that shows GDP growth and increased corporate profits (mostly from increased military and defense spending on the GDP growth, increased profits from corporations slashing payrolls, laying off massive numbers of workers). Not really any new JOBS, now are there? So, tell me...how exactly does this constitute anything that could be called "recovery" for the average American?

Sounds like Dean's not the only one who's making stuff up as he goes along...one rather suspects you of doing the same, as it's rather obvious you lack knowledge of the things you're talking about...

[HPLeft]

25. Excuse me, but...

...I do find it difficult to take certain Dean supporters seriously.

For instance, $45 a barrel price for oil would dramatically, and negatively, impact the American economy (the airline industry, the travel industry, tourism, anything that needs to be shipped by truck long-distance) - but perhaps no less than Dean's proposed repeal of all the Bush tax cuts, including those cuts to people who have only survived so far through mortgage re-financing, and other short-term fixes. Of course, since Governor Dean has never run a business, and only managed a State with a population of 610,000, I'm not surprised that he doesn't get it - or that some of his more stridently emotional, if misguided, supporters.

While oil is a diminishing resource, it is one where the supply is fine for the foreseeable future - and hence there is no reason for the price to rise dramatically over the next few years. That is, unless Governor Dean decides to tick off the Saudi's before America has moved forward toward the laudable goal of national energy independence. The truth is, because of the inaction of every American Administration over the last 30 years or so, the Saudi have us by the "huevos". It might be good for the Governor to become acquainted with current reality before he goes shooting of his mouth.

Of course, there is no reason whatsoever to take seriously anything Dean has to say since we know that he is likely to change his position tomorrow.

The Dean campaign is completely about emotion. The only idea at the heart of it is that Dr. Dean thinks that he should be President, and hence, is willing to say absolutely anything in order to further that goal. While pretending to be an outside, he's is as political as any candidate that I have ever watched.

[Cha]

32. You find it "difficult to take certain Dean Supporters

seriously"? I find it Impossible to put any creedence to what certain kerry supporters will say spreading kerry like talking points regarding Dean and our campaign! kerry is the one who is saying "absolutely anything in order to further" his goal.

[Cha]

15. Dean has "Huevos" & Brains which is

what the other candidates can't handle. And why Dean is leaving them in the dust. Dean has a very Smart campaign and it's completely disingenous for you to say "making this stuff up as he goes along"

kerry is the one who should have had a "brain" when he was busy giving bush the "yes" vote on the IWR!

[HPLeft]

27. The Dean campaign...

...is completely driven by emotion and anger. This man has changed his positions on so many issues that it's not funny, and certain of his supporters appear to be taking part in a real life episode version of the "Emperor's New Clothing". They refuse to see that he's intellectually naked...but his nakedness will definitely get exploited by Dubya and Rove, with their 200 million war chest, in a general election.

Can you imagine the ads that they'll run? I can. Imagine all of those flip-flops that the dedicated activists supporting Dean are refusing to pay attention to, being blasted on TV screens night in and night out. It's not going to be a pretty picture - and 200 million can buy a lot of television advertising. And that's not taking into account the way that conservative talk radio and Faux News and GE's NBC will spin it.

If Dean gets the nomination, we better hope that everything falls apart for Dubya, because that's the only way that Dean wins.

[Cha]

30. The kerry campaign is driven by

lies and more lies. and if kerry gets the nomination "we better hope that everything falls apart for Dubya", because that's the only way that kerry wins.


DEan has passion and has instilled passion in his supporters. He has brought People into the party who normally wouldn't even be in politics and it's disingenous to say Dean's campaign(my campaign)is about "emotion and anger"...Of course, we are angry about bush and the way he is selling our Country down the river and the people who are helping him but we have intellectual responses to the atrocities committed in our name, too.

http://www.deanforamerica.com
http://www.blogforamerica.com

[UTUSN]

10. Let's Sort These Assertions and Posts Out

1- While most DUers, including supporters of other Dem candidates (KERRY, in my case), could see that the message he was TRYING to send was of "broadening" our constituency, he showed a tin ear to cultural sensitivies of both Blacks and Whites, he messed up his message, and all attention was focused on the gaffe part.

2- "Huevos" is being able to admit one has erred and attempting to remedy it. Stonewalling is not "huevos". Actually, something comes BEFORE admitting and remedying: Insight, realizing, perceiving, comprehension---of having erred. It's not clear that his eventual reversal came from honest appreciation of the "hurt" or from the firestorm that grew and wouldn't go away.

3- As for selecting the Confederate battle flag as symbol of "inclusiveness" (as a poster from another day used the word): The few left IN PUBLIC who display it are SO FAR GONE as wingnuts, that they would have nothing to attract them in the Dem party that they don't get from Shrub. They are not going to stand next to racial or gender minorities based on somebody's "accepting" their pride in their flag. So this #3 point is all about judgment, plus, as Tweety's term has it, "pander bearing" (pandering).

I have never brayed over DEAN's surface gaffe, answered the SKINNER poll saying it was a mistake not an intended slur. I also notice how often a thread like this, ostensibly just being positive about this one candidate turns into a KERRY bash as the thread goes on.

[UTUSN]

13. For Example, Ted NUGENT

is NOT going to switch to DEAN/Dem against Shrub just because DEAN supports the N.R.A.

Also, on the "ideological purity" front---where the Iraq-attack-vote is held to be the ONLY thing that counts----on a deeper level, there are certain CORE Democratic Party values, believe it or not (the fight for equality, the dismantling of discrimination, Voting Rights, Choice) that are NOT to be toyed with.

The battles over that danged flag have NOT been easy to win and have continued on into the near present. Unawareness of this is a BIG DEAL. And an off-the-cuff seeming-"approval" of that flag by a Dem WIPES the legal victories off in one fell swoop.

So there was the "ideological purity" problem in a campaign (DEAN's) whose hallmark has been ideological purity on other topics.

[Cha]

19. Fu*k ted nugent

Dean is opening up a whole new ball field and it scares the shyte out of the little pussy footers.

And as for kerry..he caved when it counted.

[UTUSN]

21. We Usually Agree, zidzi, But a Big DU Problem for the Future

is going to be the POSSIBILITY of solidarity happening among us once the final nominee emerges.

The depth of rancor among a couple of the campaigns sure makes it look like there won't be no going back together, so congrats to Shrub.

Maybe it's just the primaries. Sigh.

[Cha]

22. I guess it is just the "primaries"..

This is my first primary and I know who I want! When the time comes for me to get behind the Dem winner I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

I never used to attack the other candidates but when all the Dean bashers come out in full force and Attack my candidate..and I can't attack them so I Will speak out how I feel about kerry and the rest of them.

[DemDogs]

31. Dean: the panderer in chief

will never be the commander in chief. Live with that reality. Whatever image he portrayed at first, it turns out to be all illusion. Okay, so he said there was anthrax in Iraq, I can live with that. So he hedged his bets on the IWR by saying he would vote for Biden-Lugar; okay, a guy can change his mind. So half of his supporters love him because they think he is Dennis Kucinich and half love him because they think he is John Edwards. He's neither. And he's not Carter and he's sure not Clinton.

And the Republicans are salivating at all his misstatements. They ALREADY have enough material to sink this pipe dream.

Kerry, whatever his faults, presents legitimate problems for Bush's reelection. Wake up, Democrats. Instead of looking in the mirror and think you see Dean looking back, look at his record. And you will see it is not only Ted Nugent who will be ...

[Cha]

34. No Dean is Dean and I know exactly who

he is! Too bad you don't know who he is.

[dofus]

12. Didn't Dean say

he wanted to reach out to those guys (the Confederate flag ones) because they don't have health care either? Isn't that an important part of what he said?

The sad thing about sound bites is that they're used to alter the meaning of what someone actually said.

Personally I despise the Confederate flag and think it ought to be against the law to display. But I'm not yet dictator of North America, and there are those who sincerely believe it is a benign symbol of a cherished history. They're totally wrong about the benign symbol thing, but I try to respect their pride in their heritage, even when they don't get it that it represents slavery and repression.

[Cha]

17. Dean has said this since April in his speech...

" I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." "(big applause)"

And then the laggards in the Dem race gepkerwards had a "conference" and started whining about this and, of course, sharpton came on board because of his competion with the Jacksons. This is all my opinion from reading posts on DU.

Well, Dean is strong enough to take this shyte and it will only make him More Strong! And the whiners will find something else to pounce on the leader about.

[lulu]

20. Pickup trucks?

"White folks in the south who drive pickup trucks ..."

Okay, I'm really mad now. He's supporting the driving of pickup trucks! I hate those things. They block my view when they're stopped in front of my little Honda; pickup trucks get terrible gas mileage, and they pollute!!! Wow, I can't support Dean anymore because he says he loves pickup trucks. Where does he get off on that? He's just like Trent Lott ...

(sarcasm off, now)

[onecitizen]

23. My only regret was that.........

he apologized AT ALL!! He happens to be right and I feel he shouldn't have caved.

[Cha]

28. Well...I think Dean "apologized" only to those

People who were "offended" by it..not for the quote itself! He did it his way!