Shocking images shame US forces in Iraq

[IndianaGreen]

Shocking images shame US forces in Iraq
By Yvonne Ridley and Lawrence Smallman

Monday 10 November 2003, 1:15 Makka Time, 22:15 GMT


Fearful women and children
bound by US soldiers in their home


A child, aged around six, watches
nervously as US soldier ties her

A series of shocking pictures revealing US soldiers tying up Iraqi women and children in their own home has provoked international outrage.

The occupying forces have now come under renewed fire for their treatment of ordinary Iraqis as shown in the pictures published today by Aljazeera.net.

CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, is conducting an investigation and seeking advice before taking further action.

"This kind of image increases resentment of American troops in Iraq and can also play a major part in demoralising troops who are having to tie up small children.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6B135A01-B99C-41C1-B36A-53197281D21E.htm

[Noordam]

1. These pictures are 5 months old or so

I saw them at the begining of the Iraq Invasion.

[IndianaGreen]

4. We weren't tying people up 5 months ago!

I suggest you find something to bolster what you are alleging.

[rooboy]

6. Noordam is right...

I saw those images several months ago as well. And they were tying people up then, unfortunately...

[Rose Siding]

7. I remember them also

same pictures. AJ is being disingenuous at best.

I don't know how to do a search for images.

[Voltaire99]

18. Wrong. Al Jazeera doesn't claim they're new

Did you read the piece before posting that accusation?

AJ is reporting CAIR's investigation of the photos. There's no claim to the photos being new, which, yes, would be disingenuous. CAIR, in fact, states, ""We are seeking to raise this issue further in the appropriate arena."

In other words, CAIR's position is that abuse isn't, and shouldn't be, forgotten.

In terms of media criticism, I would make the case that AJ is doing something profoundly valuable by publishing the photos with the story. It's helping prevent this form of abuse by US troops from going down the memory hole - which is where western leaders and their media would like it to vanish.

[Rose Siding]

50. Right- It's just implied that they are recent

"This latest series of pictures was sent to US military headquarters Centcom in Florida for a comment. Major David Farlow warned Aljazeera.net not to publish the pictures on this site."

Go ahead and argue that "latest" could mean 5 months ago. It could! But the implication is otherwise.

This manipulation is just as insidious as that of any other biased media. When the military is functioning in this way, it should be reported in a way that withstands scrutiny.

[jeter]

55. Let's leave our boys alone

Let's go after those who sent them there.

[Swing Voter]

16. You actually believe Aljazeera media

It was an Aljazeera newspaper that claimed that the US military used atomic bombs during the initial invasion of Baghdad. Geeze, what a joke! Let's wait and see what comes out on the major U.S. news channels. These pics might be concocted computer images for all we know. You never know what Aljazeera would come up with. Geeze, atomic bombs. I laughed my butt off when I saw that!

[foreigncorrespondent]

19. You actually believe the U.S. media...

...and news resources? It was the U.S. media and resources that told the world, Bush* was telling the truth when he was making his case for war with Iraq.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

20. I'm not disputing your claim, but I have no recall of that. Do you have a

link to the claim?

Or could it possibly have been the use of Depleted Uranium?

[RapidCreek]

26. Where did you see it?

Al Jazeera has links to all there stories...please provide one.

RC

[Robin Hood]

31. The US did drop bombs with depleted Uranium in them.

I consider depleted Uranium dropped on large populations to have a lasting effect much like an atomic bomb would. Do you think that we have dramatically increased these peoples cancer rates over the next hundreds of years?

Furthermore, You actually believe in the US media? I know that Al Jazeera is no saint, but the US media is a joke. It's not journalism, there is not interest in truth unless it benefits it's corporate controlled owners and friends.

[Zuni]

54. bombs DO NOT have depleted Uranium in them

it is in anti-tank shells.
DU has 60% of the radiation that natural uranium has. In the average topsoil in the mid atlantic US, there are about 4 tons of natural uranium in every square mile, down to 1 foot deep. It would take almost 6 tons of DU to equal the radiation given off by topsoil in one square mile.
Radiation from DU is too weak to penetrate the skin. It has to be ingested to be of a danger.

[Zuni]

56. I do not think Depleted Uranium is the cause of cancer or gulf war syndrom

most of the areas where cancer and gulf war syndrome are known to come from were heavily infested and polluted with chemical weapons like Mustard (both from deliberate use in the Iran war, and destruction during the fighting during the Gulf war)that can cause birth defects and cancer. the toxcitiy of some areas was comparable to the western front in WWI.
In addition, the oil fires and dumping of the millions of gallons of petrol into the Gulf was among the largest environmental disasters of all time. The amount of pollution was more than enough to toxify an enormous area.
On top of that, the draining of the marshes and small rivers in Southern Iraq also caused enormous environmental damage.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobthedrummer]

39. They probably used an E-bomb though

and they still are without full electric power.

[PsychoDad]

46. Aljazeera newspaper ?

I was unaware that Aljazeera had any print media, last I heard it was all broadcast and web oriented. Iregardless it would have been in arabic.
Aside from that I don't ever remember Al Jaz ever saying anything of that nature. Is there a source for the info? I tend to put a bit of faith in Al Jaz, quite a bit more than I do Fox. I would be very interested in that article.

Are you sure it wasn't Debka you were reading online?

[PartyPooper]

8. Not to be a party pooper, but, I remember these pictures, too.

They were posted about 5-6 months ago. And, yes, people were being tied up. These photos caused an outrage at DU.

BTW, thanks for posting them, again! I'm sure many have not seen these.

[IndianaGreen]

12. From a 2002 Guardian story, looks like tying up women and girls

is standard operating procedure for US troops, whether in Iraq or Afghanistan.

One thing for certain, having these particular pictures shown by Al-Jazeera, it will definitely resonate throughout the Middle East.

[IndianaGreen]

14. The soldier in the picture has a 3rd Division patch on his helmet

When was the 3rd Division rotated to Fort Stewart?

[RapidCreek]

25. Yep Indiana they are old...just resurfacing

RC

[KoKo]

5. If anything it's probably MUCH worse than 5 months ago....it's probably

bordering on "war crimes" at this point....if we had any International Commission on such things, anymore...

I have sympathy for our soldiers (who are following orders, but unfortunately the orders come from Chimpy, Chicken Hawks. They do the best they can...like any soldiers. But, the orders always come from "On Top." And short of Court Martial, they must comply in the defence of the US....and Chimp & Co.

Sad.....but true.....:-(

[0007]

10. The troops use plactic electrical ties now,

faster and easier and pull tighter.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pale_Rider]

11. Yep these are old photos ...

... wonder why it took them so long to finally get around to post em?

[dArKeR]

2. I wish these were bigger. The top-right girl, in red, looks like she's

crying. Winning the hearts and minds!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

3. My God. It keeps getting worse....

<snip>
This latest series of pictures was sent to US military headquarters Centcom in Florida for a comment. Major David Farlow warned Aljazeera.net not to publish the pictures on this site.

"It would be irresponsible. I can't second guess what has happened here without knowing all the facts but US forces operating in Iraq have to use the appropriate level of restraint to the mission.
<snip>

It would show the world what Americans are doing while we aren't dropping 500 pound bombs on villages that have no air defense.

We are behaving like high school bullies.

[IndianaGreen]

9. US troops also tied up Afghan women and girls back in 2002

As you can see from the following 2002 story, it is SOP to tie up women and girls by our brave troops. The following story also shows that our Special Forces are back to their old assassination tricks that smeared the Army during Vietnam.

Storm over Afghan civilian victims

Guardian reveals botched raids on anti-Taliban forces

Ian Traynor in Kabul and Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday February 12, 2002
The Guardian

The Pentagon yesterday came under the most intense questioning over civilian casualties since the start of the Afghan war, after allegations that US special forces executed and beat men wrongly suspected of being Taliban or al-Qaida fighters, and tied up their women relatives.

On at least two occasions in the past month, the Guardian has also established, the US raids were botched and anti-Taliban forces were targeted as a result of bungled intelligence. According to western officials in Kabul, village women were tied up by the Americans and hair samples taken for DNA analysis to try to establish links with Osama bin Laden.

In village raids last month south of Kabul, the homes of mistaken Taliban suspects were torched, the officials said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,648888,00.html

[ugarte]

13. Shameful

The whole country has an American boot on its back. We are the masters of all brown people.

[madrchsod]

15. just after the

bombing of the red cross in iraq there was a live video feed of an iraqi family running to the compound. there were a older lady and what appeared to be her male relatives. there was one us soldier that was trying to keep them from going any closer..the women became more and more upset ,while the males became more agitated and were aruging among themselves. the us soldier then started to calm the woman down to the point where she turned and kind of hugged him and gave the us soldier a kiss on the cheek... then the soldier had the woman sit down on a crate of some kind then they turned their attention to the males still at their arugment..

[Dr Fate]

17. I'm not 100% sure the pics are even real...

...but then I'm cynical about ALL media, not just US Bush/media...

We cant really see those troops too well to know if they are enemies in US uniforms...I guess we will hear more about it (or not...)

...not that I doubt that bad shit goes down during wars though (duh)....

[IndianaGreen]

23. "enemies"?

Did Iraq attack the US on 9/11? Did Iraq threaten to launch a nuclear strike against the US? Did Iraq bomb the US for 12 years? Did Iraq impose an embargo on the US?

Seems to me that to refer to Iraqis as the "enemy" is as hollow as the Waffen SS referring to the Poles as "enemy", or the Gestapo to the French Resistance as "murderers."

We invaded Iraq. We are the invaders. We are the occupiers. We are the ones that threaten the entire world. We are the enemy of humankind!

[Dr Fate]

33. Please- I meant physically, not philosophically...

..."enemies" as in, the dudes who are shooting at my Democrat voting friends from Ft. Gordon...I could have said "opposition" or "resistance", it's dudes shooting at my friends just the same...

What do you mean "we", paleface??
"we" did not do anything, Bush and the people who supported his "go it alone" strategy are responsible for this mess...This "we" stuff is exactly how Pukes get away with all that "Liberals always blame America 1st" crap- stop balming yourself and start pointing the finger at conservative foreign policy...

I dont blame the troops or myself for this mess, I blame Bush, the media, and republicans...


Besides, the post was about the possibility that this piece, with its dated photos, could be propaganda...

[IndianaGreen]

34. Bush had Democratic help on the war!

Leading Democrats like Gephardt, Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards could have opposed the war, but chose instead to give Bush a blank check to attack Iraq whenever he wished.

This war has Democratic fingerprints on it!

[Dr Fate]

36. How did I know you would use that to bash DEMS????

I guess I is just smart that way!!!

You are right- we should be like you and always connect DEM to bad things- thats a GREAT way to beat Bush.

Thanks for the favor buddy!!!!

Anyway, my post was about the fact that the US media and Al-wasisitsface are constantly putting out propaganda- I'm just as suspicious of this as anything else...

[Zuni]

51. deep breaths

You might be the enemy of humankind. I am not.

I think that is going a little too far. No doubt iraq did need to be invaded, but history is full of far more awful incidents...

[VolcanoJen]

21. Message From the Moderator

I vividly remember these same images at the beginning of the war, too. While the content of the article is interesting, a few posters have questioned the age of the photos, and I think it would be better to move this piece out of the LBN Forum.

Please continue this discussion in this thread's new location in the General Discussion Forum.

Thanks!
VolcanoJen
DU Moderator

[henslee]

22. you guys got it wrong, we're just handing out some tcandy bracelets n/t

[ShaneGR]

24. 1. Old 2. Looks like he's tying bracelets 3. Girls not terrified

If anything, they're all just looking around the room. Personally, I think he is actually removing bracelets, but that's just opinion. None of the kids have their hands behind their backs, and none of them appear to be crying.


I've seen pictures a hundred times worse than this.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Amerika's glorious Crusade marches on!

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=15948

[RapidCreek]

28. The kid in the pink dress has her hands behind her back

as do two of the ladies. So what if none of them are crying? Does that make it ok? How do you know if they are terrified. You don't "remove" zip ties, you cut them off. That guy doesn't have scissors or a knife in his hand.

RC

[ShaneGR]

29. I took a second look

It appears that he is removing plastic handcuffs. The first photo has him removing one from the arm of a kid, while another kid still has her hands behind her back (Presumably bound.) The second picture has him removing the plastic cuffs from the other girl.

Certainly the soldiers have to maintain their safety, and temporarilly restraining people... even kids, is a necessary evil. Hey, it sucks, but the reality is that one of those kids could throw a grenade at you. Plus, this is old... towards the beginning of the war. This is no Mai Lai.

[IndianaGreen]

30. The name is My Lai

One of the few massacres that ever saw the light of day in the press, and even then, it was rationalized as one of those things that happens in war. I hear the same rationalization coming from you.

[RapidCreek]

40. They are not plastic hand cuffs

They are nylon zip ties...the same sort you can buy at the local hardware store. You don't "take" them off. You cut them off with a very sharp knife or wire cutters. I know because I've used them for the same purpose....only not on little girls.

Certainly the soldiers have to maintain their safety....and if I were the father of one of those little girls....their safety would be in some real serious fucking jeopardy. It wouldn't make much difference if I liked Saddam or not. I'd be plinking me some of the mother fuckers who terrorized or killed my kid. The same as most of those soldiers would do if they were at home and the shoe were on the other foot.

Strangely the above scenario seems to be occuring, with increasing frequency....hmmm how strange.

RC
VET

[qanda]

57. Not only that

But we justify it happening in Iraq and now it's coming home. Take the school incident in Charleston last week. We're heading down some very slippery slopes during this misadministration and unfortunately because it's the "party of less government" in charge most are convinced that it doesn't really matter.

[bpilgrim]

32. more images... ------------------------------------- LINK

more...
http://bbs.globalfreepress.com/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=14

peace

[Robin Hood]

35. It looks like plastic handcuffs to me.

And why only on the women and children, but the Iraqi men appear to be free? Either way, this is going down just as Nam did, in fact worst considering the initial casualty rate.

Are we going to pull out when we lose 60,000 Americans and kill 2 million Iraqi's? Those are the ballpark figures for Vietnam, 2 million + Vietnamese, the number is just staggering. Is it just a matter of time before these kids start approaching soldiers dressed with a bomb vest or a grenade?

[RapidCreek]

38. They aren't cuffs, they're nylon zip ties

The same sort as can be purchased at any Hardware store. I know, I used them for the very same thing they are being used for here, though not on little girls. And to Sgr....you don't "take" zip ties off...you cut them off with a scissors or knife.

RC

[Scott Lee]

41. Just as effective as metal

I should know - I wore them three times thanks to a Wackenhut officer that put them on me at the Nevada Nuclear Test site during the protests to stop underground nuke testing.

[RapidCreek]

48. Yep they sure are.

They hurt just about as much to....you gan get them alot tighter than cuffs. On the positive side... one can't intentionally crack a wrist bone with em, slapping them on.

RC

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

42. I dont bash the troops...

...if these pictures are real, I blame the situation on Bush and conservatives, not the troops...

[IndianaGreen]

43. Sorry, but the Nuremberg trials set the precedent that "following orders"

is not an excuse. A soldier is not supposed to set aside his or her humanity for the sake of following orders. While there are some that do, sometimes too many, there are many more that are deeply troubled by the situation their country has put them in.

Then there are the few, the precious few, that will risk everything to stand for principle. There were soldiers that threw their weapons on the ground and refused to board helicopters to take them into Cambodia, there were others that threatened to shoot other GIs if they continued killing innocent civilians, and there may well be some today that have taken the same courageous stand in disclosing the inhuman and illegal conditions at Guantanamo.

[Dr Fate]

45. Those Nuns tried to use that as a defense...

...I believe they were protesting a nuclear site of some kind. The courts did not strengthen that rule in their case, that is for sure...

I doubt these guys would be able to use that defense at a Court martial...

...as far as troops setting aside their humanity, I'm no sure if these pictures are even real, or what the exact situation is...

...I've never been to war, but I dont have any illusions about war and what it does to people- I hear they are awfully brutal and violent!!!

I was against Bush's Iraq plan, but I also know that war is terrible-there will be violence and atrocities on both sides- I guess that's why some people oppose wars...

I still refuse to bash the troops- but you do what ever you want...

[IndianaGreen]

47. I'm no chickenhawk, that's for sure!

and I have little tolerance of those that are, as a certain poster that I haven't seen around for quite a while.

Support for the troops has become code words that the rightwing uses to excuse inappropriate conduct while wearing the uniform. Why do you think they want to exempt themselves from being charged by the International Criminal Court?

We are all responsible for our own actions, even when in uniform and under orders!

The UCMJ on illegal orders

The Uniform Code of Military Justice is more concerned about failure of military personnel to obey legitimate orders than it is about refusal to obey illegitimate orders, but it does address the subject. In Section 16c(1)(c) it provides:

Lawfulness. A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the laws of the United States, or lawful superior orders or for some other reason is beyond the authority of the official issuing it.

And in Section 14c(2)(a)(i):

Inference of lawfulness. A order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime.

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_attn.htm

More about this topic here:

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/download/english/MarApr01/david.pdf

[Dr Fate]

49. These boys dont get a trial???

You have already convicted themn of war crimes, and we have not even heard all the facts!!!!

[Zuni]

53. exactly

These pictures do not even show war crimes. Handcuffing is not a war crime, at least in my definition.
It may be unpleasant, but thats life.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

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[Zuni]

52. handcuffing was NOT an issue at Nuremberg

Restraining, handcuffing, arresting is not what the Nuremberg or any war crimes trials were about

[PartyPooper]

44. Yep, I wonder if the mother of this soldier has this picture

alongside that of her son.

:eyes:

[AnnabelLee]

58. Kick

:kick:

[Jacobin]

60. I've had the middle image as my computer wallpaper for at least 2 months

That picture is not current.

[gottaB]

62. Google "Operation Desert Scorpion"

Especially in the early days. I have these photos and many which are even more disturbing in my archives. Photos where they tied up the children overnight, and untied them in the morning. They were very distraught little kids.