How intermixed are the BFEE and the CIA?

[frank frankly]

Is it foolish to expect the CIA to expose the BFEE? After all, they've been supporting the Nazis (Prescott and Dulles), running heroin and crack (Iran-Contra, Mena, Golden Triangle), and making big money off war.

Is there even a real difference between the CIA and the BFEE?

[ClintonTyree]

1. My guess..............

is VERY entwined. I can't imagine the C.I.A. standing still for the outing of an agent, made to take the blame for "intelligence failures" and such without making some sort of stand against the Bushies. They haven't, to my knowkedge. To me, this screams of complicity with the Bush administration. Poppy was the Director, I'm sure he still has many pals in the heirarchy of the Agency. My guess is that the Agency is a wholly owned subsidiary of the administration.

[ConsAreLiars]

2. Like everything

the CIA is full of internal contradictions. Although their prime directive is to defend and extend the power of US monopoly capitalism, the agency includes within it individuals and factions representing a range of ideological perspectives - ranging from academic experts and specialists to wet-work psychopaths. Bush the elder was well-connected with the diehard amoral anti-commie warriors of his era, and the factions represented by the criminals of Iran-Contra and those exposed by Philip Agee and James Ridgeway have long been dominant. But they also have a certain sense of pragmatism. Things that serve their goals are preferable to things (like Dumbfuck's drive toward Armageddon) that don't. And they have a sense of loyalty to their own. All these factors mean that there are sure to be elements within the CIA that regard the coward-and-thief as a threat, and the exposing of a CIA operative only strengthens the hand of those who see this cabal as an enemy to whatever they value above all else.

[JackRiddler]

5. I like your take on this... n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

15. "the CIA doesn't even know itself"

Unfortunately I can't remember who said that.

The point being, the CIA's not a monolith: it's a labyrinth. Some corridors are well-lit, others not so. I suspect, given his family's ties to Dulles and his having been, almost certainly, a covert operative since at least the early 60s, that Poppy knows its dark passages as well as any.

[frank frankly]

16. brilliant, bumbler

thanks, that is the best short description of the Company I've read.

:hi:

[CivilRightsNow]

3. Pappy Bush was the head of the CIA

And then the Vice President.. and then the President.

Doesn't Britain have a law about how MI5 or MI6 Heads cant be Prime Minister?

Interlinked? They are interwoven. :)

[JackRiddler]

4. Hard to believe Papa Bush isn't the real head of the CIA

At any rate, the chairman of the board.

"The CIA" responded to its exposure in the 1970s by turning itself into its own largest front organization. The image of incompetent bureaucrats at Langley trying to implement the President's policy always hid a multihived complex of off-the-official-books networks and largely self-sufficient propietary businesses, in turn hooked into the mafia, religious and terror rackets and national elites worldwide. This beast is riven with interconnections and factions and most of it does not consist of official state employees.

The shock of the 1970s drove the spooks into a far greater degree of privatization, of which we only caught a brief glimpse during the Iran-Contra damage control operations of the 1980s. It's not about "rogue elements" but a whole rogue empire of rogue networks with rogue culture, using the resources of the official state as well as of their own contacts.

Within this pond, the Bush network (which smuggled the Agency and its friends out of that Colby/Frank Church/Admiral Turner malaise) has floated at the top for 30 years, but is surely not in charge of everything in the depths; nor does it in any way hold a monopoly of decision-making within the operative ruling class (=The G.O.D. Bank).

Still, in my more paranoid moments I figure it's been understood all along that Junior as Prez was likely a one-term crime deal, like Papa as Prez was himself, and maybe Papa has no problems with the necessity of dumping Junior and rotating in a conciliator who can pursue WW3 in a more humanitarian fashion, with lots of ideals. (I figure that's what the prize to Kennedy was all about.)

So we are treated to the spectacle of a CIA/mob family first putting itself into power with the consensus of the G.0.D. Bank (who see the necessity in the present global crisis of implementing lots of nasty shit like 9/11PATRIOT-Iraq-Homeland-Fascism-TIA-Tribunals-Your-Workplace-Is-Your-Prison-Smile-OrDoYouPreferCamp?) - and then, four years later, accepting its own public (but discreet) dismantling by a consensus within the G.O.D. Bank, said dismantling to be implemented by "the CIA."

So, in this scheme, who's the Submarine Democrat for President with a Human Face? I haven't figured that one out, I was leaning to Clark but I'm not so sure anymore, but I figure in the end it will be the one who doesn't magically implode mid-campaign. Cynical, I know, but the winner will almost certainly have the Spook Imprimatur, and anyone else who gets too far will get a bullet, if the sex scandal doesn't turn the trick.

Then again, the right-wingers and assorted World-Enders might be nuts enough to go ahead with a truly hard-knuckle coup d'etat and steal 2004, anyway. Watch out!

Quiz question: What's the G.O.D. Bank, mommy? What's the smelly conspiracist talking about?

[DUreader]

6. I don't like quizzes, cough up a link

please

[JackRiddler]

13. Ah, it's not really a quiz...

I'm just being cute.

I am sleepy now so I may run on a bit here but I'll try to answer semi-coherently...

G.O.D. = Guns, Oil, Drugs (illegal & legal).

Think of "guns" as standing for a lot more than just the arms trade: military industries, security industries, prison industries, PMCs, private intelligence, obviously a big chunk of aerospace... the military-industrial-security-science-atomics complex. At least, everything out of that involved in making war.

Oil is the key energy source, the indispensible one for fighting wars, and (increasingly often now thanks to Peak Oil) the object of the wars.

Illegal drugs are the turbo source of "free" cash on which much covert power is based (when you add in the multiplications it can go through in the laundering process). They are also a key element of cultural and mind control (alongside the even more important LEGAL drugs).

Since the beginning of prohibition, the key drug law enforcers have always been in bed with the key smugglers. It cannot possibly work any other way, it's like a law. (I can go into this history blow-by-blow more factually later, if you like. Or you can go blow your mind with the greatest book I've read since 9/11/01, DRUG WAR by Dan Russell. Look it up!)

These are the businesses that rule the spook world and that the spook world is most involved in. Makes sense, it's all a product of logic once one accepts the parameters and values of capitalism and how it defines class interests.

If you prefer to put it in conspiratorial terms, just think of it as originating with a bunch of rich mothers who got started around the old Rockefeller and Morgan fortunes, who all by themselves once owned 20 percent of America, before they were forced to diversify back under Roosevelt I... and who probably still own 20 percent today, through holding companies and foundations. This is the milieu where you have your Harrimans, Dulles Bros., Bushes/Walkers originally appear too...

Never particularly sympathetic, these guys got pretty fascist in the 1920s & 30s.

Oil + Banks (totally tied into each other) = "Wall Street" (a dominant slice thereof) = runs the CIA from the beginning = lots of Nazi sympathies and connections too (letting in a whole bunch of'em to be the postwar spook experts).

If you prefer the sociological version:

G.0.D. are the key physical bases of covert political power in the present system.

These three interrelated industries live off force and can force hyperprofits in a time of economic crisis. So the worse the crisis of declining profit rates under capitalism becomes (and it's been continual since the 1970s), the more strength the industries pick up that can force profit. So it has ever been. It's why in the older, slower days, recessions were invariably cured by wars (nowadays it's all more accelerated and you have the recessions, the booms, and the wars all existing alongside each other as semipermanent conditions).

The military industries can obviously create their own profits almost at will by creating threats, destroying them, rebuilding them, re-destroying them.

It's reached a kind of highest stage to date, with Halliburton as kind of ultimate sign: the preeminent service company to all the oil majors, simultaneously a major military builder, simultaneously owner of the effective chief executive, the same man whose buddies armed Iraq, who then himself blew up Iraq, who then helped rebuild it, and who lead the charge in destroying it again...

Consolidation, rationalization, efficiency, no need of fig leaves anymore.

For these reasons among others, the controllers of these industries (and of the big banks, involved in all three) have become the "operative ruling elite" within the larger ownership class.

So that's my stupid "G.0.D. Bank" joke.

Think of it as the "power elite," or any way the most powerful element within the ruling class. Or should we call it a cryptocracy (covert or unmapped hierarchy)?

Gotta go bed now.

[frank frankly]

17. wow

G.O.D. bank.

brilliant.

[Jose Diablo]

20. The enemy within

You have identified the core. The next step is to identify specific organizations and more importantly, individuals.

Enterprises described above can only exist as long as they remain "they" or "them". If specific names are identified, then "they" can be separated from the flock. The evil can then be expunged. Evil can be destroyed.

[jenm]

22. why do you think

the lie will die on 9/11/04? I thought we needed the lie to keep our sanity?

[JackRiddler]

24. I need the truth for my sanity.

9/11/04 seems like a great date... look at all the progress the 2nd anniversary brought. And the BushCo. have the chutzpah to come to New York, where they are truly hated, and exploit the dead? It's my hope we can break the official story by then.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

10. Or as a Jeopardy question:

What is "The Enterprise"?

:)

[Eloriel]

11. That is pretty much my take on things

Cynical as all get out, dark and brooding, but probably 99.9% accurate.

Thanks for articulating it all, and so well.

Eloriel

[rman]

7. CIA is exposing BFEE (to an extend) :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=683587

"An unprecedented array of US intelligence professionals, diplomats and former Pentagon officials have gone on record to lambast the Bush administration for its distortion of the case for war against Iraq. In their view, the very foundations of intelligence-gathering have been damaged in ways that could take years, even decades, to repair.

A new documentary film beginning to circulate in the United States features one powerful condemnation after another, from the sort of people who usually stay discreetly in the shadows - a former director of the CIA, two former assistant secretaries of defence, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and even the man who served as President Bush's Secretary of the Army until just a few months ago.

Between them, the two dozen interviewees reveal how the pre-war intelligence record on Iraq showed virtually the opposite of the picture the administration painted to Congress, to US voters and to the world. They also reconstruct the way senior White House officials - notably Vice-President Dick Cheney - leaned on the CIA to find evidence that would fit a preordained set of conclusions.

"There was never a clear and present danger. There was never an imminent threat. Iraq - and we have very good intelligence on this - was never part of the picture of terrorism," says Mel Goodman, a veteran CIA analyst who now teaches at the National War College."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=461953

[JHB]

8. Think of it this way...

Junior has gotten into Poppy's prize toolset and is breaking them, tossing them around, etc., and generally not treating them properly.

Don't expect the tools to take kindly to this sort of tratment, especially from someone who should know better.

[JackRiddler]

14. But

What if Junior is merely Papa Bush's patsy?

Just can't shake this idea, it's acquiring a kind of literary elegance. I mean we can see these guys are and always have been CANNIBALS. The Nazis, cocaine imports, arming both sides in Iran/Iraq, arming Saddam, Osama/Taliban/mujahedeen, Noriega... then blowing'em all up again. This is what Bushes do.

So maybe Junior's like Papa Bush's ultimate make-enemy operation? He creates the monster, then he sees it off, and his mob earns on all ends as usual?

[leftofthedial]

9. they're all part of the same big family

The Plame outing was an internecine spat

[tom_paine]

12. My guess is that the Bushevik Faction of the CIA

encompasses two-thirds of the agents.

The other third are Patriotic Americans serving their nation first and NOT the Imperial Family.

These are the ones speaking out now, and they are being marked for career destruction by the Bushevik Faction, no doubt.

But that is all speculation.

[frank frankly]

18. kick

:kick:

[JackRiddler]

19. kick2

k

[nolabels]

21. The proof is in the pudding

I started a thread a while back (I am not very good at it, and mostly dislike posting like that) but I did have a few people call me a fool. But I would say the the shoe is on the other foot now. Who signs the paycheck and where it gets picked up is the thing that people seem to forget.

I am not buying it, the whole CIA \Plame\ Novak Thing is B.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=445076

[bobthedrummer]

23. My take is that they're are indeed "rogue elements" [black ops}

that have personal loyalty to BFEE and then the rest of the CIA. Some evidence of this is seen in the role of the Private Military Company/PMC
PMC link
http://www.icij.org/dtaweb/icij_bow.asp?Section=Chapter&ChapNum=2

[frank frankly]

25. let's keep the talk going on this

:kick: