EDWARDS taking it to New Hampshire

[bearfartinthewoods]

<snip>

Why then, is Sen. John Edwards, who sees South Carolina as a must win, spending so much time criss-crossing New Hampshire in his Real Solutions Express instead of spending time on the ground in the state of his birth?
<snip>
“I’m completely satisfied with all the information that I see that I have a double-digit lead in South Carolina,” Edwards said Friday night on his bus on his way to his sixth town hall meeting of the day. “It’s a place where I’m going be strong naturally. I’m going to win South Carolina.”

Given that confidence, it stands to reason that Edwards would spend more time in New Hampshire where he and five other candidates would give as much weight to a third place finish as they would a win considering the blood match being waged between Dean and Sen. John Kerry.

“It’s important to me to compete very hard in New Hampshire,” Edwards said. “I’ve spent enough time here to know that what works here is for people to see me, and that’s what it takes. You can’t do it half way. You can’t do it in fly-bys. You have to actually come and do the town hall meetings and let people see the details of what you want to do and what you’re about. I don’t think you can do it any other way.”



http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/November/11_10Edwards.shtml

[ThorsteinVeblen]

1. Edwards should be taking it

somewhere else..

I vehmently oppose Edwards' nomination.

The Democratic Party needs to clean house of idiots like this.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[chimpymustgo]

14. Honey, I think this belongs in another forum.

nt

[ThorsteinVeblen]

16. I didn't start it baby.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

20. Cheers

I will throw my lot in with the likes of Ossie Davis rather than you AP. If he is sick, then so am I.

We all need something to believe in. I believe the some situations require fighting back. I believe the current political situation in the US is one of those situations. I want a fighter.

http://www.cmgww.com/historic/malcolm/eulogy.html

[AP]

25. black manhood was and is a significant issue. Dean's isnt'.

It's like the president shoving a sock don't the front of his flight suit, and then having Chris Matthews act like the way you look in a flight suit has ANYTHING to do with being president. You're doing the same thing Matthews does with Bush.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

27. The Manhood of the Democratic Party is a Significant

Issue at this juncture in history. It is THE ISSUE of the day.

I am sick and tired of the prevaricating, excuse-making, cowardly, corrupt, valueless, self-interested assholes who make up the majority of the Democratic Party.

I want a leader. Give me a fucking leader. Give me a vision. Give me sacrifice. Give me courage. Don't give me anymore goddamn cowards.

Sock Puppets don't count. Fuck Chris Matthews.

[AP]

31. "Manhood" was an issue Republicans used to win elections 100 years ago.

They used it to convince Americans that imperialism was good, and that progress and immigration and women were bad. It was rhetoric used to keep the rich and powerful rich and powerful and to keep the middle and working class down.

You might find a happier home in the Republican party if you think the majority of Democrats are assholes and "manhood" is the defining quality of leadership.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

39. Well "code words" from 100 years ago don't apply

to the current political situation - do they? Or does "54-40 or fight" still get conservatives blood boiling?

As far as the Republican party goes, I will be voting for Bush if Edwards, Gephardt, Kerry or Lieberman is the nominee. I will do this purely to hasten the destruction of a hopelessly corrupt Democratic Party.

[AP]

42. Yes they do. Rove says McKinley is his political roll model.

This is when masculinity became a big part of the propaganda. I'm not surprised that it's part of the debate now. Rove is repeating the same strategies. You're falling for them and/or you're pepetuating them.

[AP]

44. ...and thanks for confirming that you'd vote for Bush

I suspected that was the case.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

56. Glad I could help you out.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

48. I am the sucker?

Masculinity to me is having the political guts to challenge an immoral war no matter what the personal price.

Only a feminist or conservative would limit definition of the masculine to the ability to kill or wage war. Your inability to trascend this image of the masculine, is the failure at the heart of the Democratic Party.

It is exactly why we have trouble in the south. It is exactly why "liberal" is a dirty word. It is exactly why that a status quo candidate will lose in 2004 and 2006 and 2008 and 2010 and 2012 until we learn that we need to change.

[AP]

51. Opposing war isn't about sexuality. It's about sensible politics.

And women -- feminists -- have led some of the most volatile nations at their most precarious moments (and I'm thinking about Pakistan and India in particular).

[ThorsteinVeblen]

58. I am making no assumptions about the ability or the inabilty

of women to lead.

Margret Thatcher
Joan of Arc
Rosa Parks

obstinence, intolerance, sacrifice, values - these are the things that drive a leader and create revolutions.

[spooky3]

94. I am sick and tired of reading sexist crap.

Saying that the Democratic party needs to be more "manly" is as offensive as saying it needs to be more "white." You need to read an excellent essay , linked in the Articles section.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=20630

[ThorsteinVeblen]

96. I know what I believe

I have expressed it to the best of my ability - if you cannot understand it, it is through no fault of my own.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

26. I'm just telling you what I think when I see your name. You've built up

a trademark for yourself.

And you certainly didn't disappoint in this thread. You've only confirmed my suspicion about where your obsessions and interests are. They're in 'manhood" and in criticizing feminity as childish.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

35. Cheers

Your sexualization of "manhood" is your projection - and is not my issue nor my "trademark".

The thing that differentiated Malcom X from the other Civil Rights leaders was he willingness to what ever means necessary for self defense. This is what Ossie Davis referred to as "manhood". This is the same charachteristic I see in Dean. Dean has drawn a line in the sand, and it has been crossed. Once that line was crossed Dean started fighting and he is not going to stop until he wins. He has said "enough". He said "never again". He has said "no more". None of the other candidates understand this because they have spent too much time in the Senate "comprimising" and "prevaricating"

"criticizing feminity as childish."

I did nothing of the sort. I said nothing about "feminity" nor did I equate it with the childish.

And yes, my interest is purely in manhood - the way I have defined it. It is not the dog in the fight, it is the fight in the dog.

[AP]

40. Calling me too feminine and childish is "my projection"? You said it.

It was your, um, ejaculation.

[AP]

45. Here's what you said:

The problem with you, as with most Liberal American men, is that you have been feminized. You have been raised by women to believe that male power is either evil, oppressive or homosexual. The redemptive power of the foot that is put down, the world changing force of the impassioned decision, the powerful impulse that is behind technology, art, economy, creation are all masculine.

I use manhood in opposition to childhood. A man makes decisions, acheives identity, strives to fashion the world around him to his vision and values. A child dreams and lets the world buffet him this way and that - a victim of fate - crying for the protection of the womb.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

46. Femine vs. Childish:

Feminization: the belief that every "father" is a tyrant and every "mother" is nurturing; every hierarchy is repressive and a social fiction.

Childhood as a symbol: impotant dreaming, weakness, dependence, relience.

In other words, the structure that I attempted to elucidate in the first post is that of Feminism limiting the masculine to negative, oppressive power thereby producing a childish state in men.

[AP]

49. Sexualizing policy is essentially and conservative project.

It is what Matthews is doing. It's what the flight suit was all about. It's what CNN and Fox do when they show clips of soldiers and talk about how "virile" they look. It's what the backlash against feminism is all about.

[AP]

50. Hitler sexualized and fetishized politics.

It feeds particular well into fascism.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

54. I know this is hard for you understand

But Hitler was a facist conservative. Matthews is appealing to conservatives.

I am maintaing that their is a hierarchy of thought and values. Conservatives fall below us. Conservatives, like Feminists, limit the masculine to violent, oppressive actions.

I am saying that the masculine, detached from the ego, also has a redemptive power. Sacrifice for the good of others, obstinance, decisive action, intolerance (of oppression) are the flip side.

Gandhi was nothing if not the highest measure of manhood. The man would not back down. The man went to jail, starved himself, took beatings and he would not stop. He never fucking stopped. He took on the entire British Empire and won.

That is what I am looking for in a leader.

[AP]

60. I think you're the one who's confused.

Sexualizing politics in the first place is a conservative impulse. I don't think you're going to single-handedly figure out some new way to redefine Gandhi as the masculine ideal. And I'm having a hard time resolving various elements of your philosopy, like your willingness to vote for Bush over two very decent liberals (what kind of hierarch is that?), and your antipathy by a broad range of people who consider themselves democrats.

Gandhi, by the way, refused to use weapons, and didn't have sex, and his motto was "peaceful nonviolence." He's the opposite of Malcolm X in many ways.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

63. But what did Gandhi and Malcom have in common?

"refused to use weapons"

Gandhi used many weapons. Shame was his most potent. He shamed the British out of India. This weapon continues to shrink the British Empire to this day.

"didn't have sex"

There you go with the sex thing again. I fail to understand any relevance this has to the conversation whatsoever.

In fact, I made a mistake. My points are not difficult for you to understand, they are impossible for you to understand.

If you truly want understand where I am coming from I would suggest Sexual Personae by Camlie Paglia and Sex, Ecology and Spiritualy by Ken Wilber, neither of which are about politics but both of which have helped formed my views on history and humanity and thus inform my political view.

[AP]

64. Camile Paglia informs your opinions? That explains a LOT.

Thanks again for filling in the blank spots.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

68. Cheers

Have you ever read her or do you rely on others to supply your opnions for you?

BTW - I didn't request your posts be removed.

[Melinda]

75. I just wanted to say thank you.

Your posts, your thoughts, your words constantly challenge me to re-examine myself and my perceptions; you make me think. I understand and appreciate exactly what you meant ^^^ there, and I just wanted to thank you for saying it, TV, and for inspiring me. :)

[AP]

77. Melinda, I'm curious...

...could you explain to me something that TV has encouraged you to re-examine?

What is it that you think you understand from ^^^.

I'm very curious to see how Camille Paglia (who is extremely reactionary herself) filters through T.V., and down into the consciousness of DU posters.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

78. Thanks for the compliment Melinda

I am notoriously bad at taking them.

AP - Do you consider Dean a reactionary?

Do you know what a "reactionary" is?

re·ac·tion·ar·y   

adj

Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative.

n.

n. pl. re·ac·tion·ar·ies

An opponent of progress or liberalism; an extreme conservative.

[Melinda]

80. Just a short response, AP, as I am not one who enjoys arguing

I followed from the beginning of your exchange with TV, and not with Paglia. I followed his thought process as he attempted to explain the concept of "manhood" as a symbol of strength, assertion, power - and not as sexual objectification.

It has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with standing up straight and asserting oneself in full measure - shoulders back, head high, no apologies for standing ones ground and fighting for what one believes in.

Compare the "manhood" TV speaks of to the pink tutu's we have in Congress... to the spineless Democratic reprsentation we have received since even before SCOTUS appointed Bush* to OUR White House....

What I understood TV to say is that we need strength of character, not weakness... and that such strength is the full measure of the person - not the persons gender.

My perception, my perspective is my own - my filters are not yours - but I feel and I hopefully understand the wisdom in what I believe TV shared here today.

[AP]

82. Does it bother you at all that, for example, the Nazis and McKinley

used a similar set of images and arguments about manhood to justify imperialism and fascism? Republicans at the turn of the last century pretended that America was soft and that it needed to prove its character by going around the world and subjecting brown people to our will. It used "femininity" as a symbol of weakness, which made it harder for women to assert their rights.

Do you really think that the politics that makes the Senate do what it does has to with throwing your shoulders back? I mean, are we talking about Triumph of the Will or are we talking about preventing America from slipping into total fascism?

[Melinda]

84. No, that's factual throughout history...

What would you do to fix this mess, AP? How will you unseat the BFEE and restore our Constitution and civil liberties? I don't see anyone BUT Dr. Dean standing up and taking Bush head on, I just don't.

[AP]

86. Right now we're talking about "masculinity"

You don't have a problem with being sold an idea that it's "masculinity" that's going to save America from fascism?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

89. My point was that the Nazis used this imagery

because it resonates. If it didn't resonate it wouldn't have worked to manipulate people. But the truth is that it does resonate with people. That is reality. You can choose to ignore it but people like Bush and the Nazis will only use it against you.

Instead of having these resonating locuses of psychological and sociological power used against us, we can use them to our advantage.

We advocate a masculinity that transcends reckless violence. A masculinity that only uses violence in self defense. A masculinity that takes care of the weak. A masculinity that is decisive, confrontational and savage when it comes to advocating and defending the above stated values.

[Melinda]

90. Hey AP - look at the image posted at the very top of this page

What is that if not a masculine idea (image) being sold to us?

Again, I don't perceive TV's take (or DU's image of the knock-out punch being delivered to Bush*) as being gender specific and feminine exclusionary - I just don't.

For me, it's synonomous with "strength".

And what this party and our country needs now is real strength.

[AP]

93. KKT, a democrat lost to a Republican in MD partly because a premium was

placed on being a man so soon after 9/11 and the sniper shootings. I've read that women candidates are not winning elections at the rate that they won election during the Clinton years. Obviously, with Title 9 and lots of other things going on in America at that time (many of which were driven by Federal Gov't) it was no longer a political liability to be a woman.

From 1992 to 2000, we went from having Blossom as the model of girl adolescense to having Buffy the Vampire Slayer as the model (Buffy, by the way, hates guns, although she's pretty good at fighting). Now, we're backsliding against feminism.

Even if you want to characterize TV's "manhood"-philia as preferring no gender, I think you don't have to look much farther than the defeat of KKT, and, perhaps the end of that womens soccer league as signs that the mood that prefers masculinity doesn't help women.

Now, do you think the world's a safer place without Democratic women getting elected to office? Because that's what this mood is producing. It's net effect is fewere elected democratic women (and I think there's little coincidence that most women who run for office are democrats -- if more significantly more Republicans office seekers were women, the Republicans wouldn't be trying so hard to convince America that 'manhood' was the most important quality for a presidential nominee.

And if you think any Democrat is going to win the manhood battle against a REpublican, I think you haven't been paying close enough attention to themes upon which Democrats base winning campaigns.

[mrgorth]

55. WOW!

Great post TV!

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

66. T.V. admits to it. It wasn't in this post, which I NOTED.

T.V. definitely spends every other post in this thread explaining why he uses gender and sexuality in his other posts.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

70. Whereas AP

calls any reference to "gender" or "sexuality" bizarre and bigoted.

Gender is a natural reality. It is not a social construct. Masculine and Feminine are defined by nature not by society.

AP's inability to taken an honest look at the assumptions that were indoctrinated into him in high school and college, is the failure of the entire Democratic Party and the reason why we have no leaders.

Only self-absorbed children.

[AP]

71. "bigoted"?

I didn't say that.

You have no idea how reactionary you are, do you?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

76. Better Reactionary than Apathetic

I always say.

[AP]

83. T.V., don't you find it amusing that I obviously tapped into something tha

you're totally enthusiastic about addressing and discussing, yet my posts got deleted.

I mean, I feel like of done you a favor. I've tapped into something that you've had pent up. You got to share your philosophy. You got to plug some books. I helped you evolve your message. Melinda even applauded your train of thought.

Yet somebody saw the need to complain to have my posts deleted.

Strange, especially since it appears that I really picked up on some ideas you were really looking to share with people.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

87. Your posts shouldn't have been deleted

I think DU in general has gotten a little overzealous with the post deleting - but that is purely my opinion. I think the harder we are on each other now, the stronger we will be, the more focused our ideas will be in the main election.

I love all the primary bickering because it is making our candidate stronger and letting him make mistakes now which in the main election might ruin his chances.

If you haven't guess already my MO is to make an outrageous statement and then try to back it up in dialogue with intelligent people such as yourself. I find my opinions are always stronger and more substaintiated when I am challenged by people.

Socrates used debate as a way to get to the truth. There are no winners or losers, just people getting closer and closer to the truth.

[chimpymustgo]

30. Edwards has a wonderfully healthy vibe when he works a room.

He may be getting ignored by the media, but face to face he is wowing voters.

Just thought I'd bring the candidate back into this thread!

[chimpymustgo]

2. Edwards' town hall meeting in NH on Road to the WH Sunday night

was just amazing. That man can work a room!

One guy came up to him after the meeting and said, "I've seen them all, and you've got the best presentation. I can tell your heart is in it."

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. that was what attracted me as well

i saw a similar forum last summer and was amazed at the ease with which he speaks. so unlike bush. i'd crawl on broken glass to see him up against bush in a debate. i think he did well against timmy on sunday. as per usual, timmy hits hard but Edwards didn't crack like another candidate did.

i think he connects well because of his background, in part. i know we all are tired of the millworker stuff but it does affect a persaon's character imho. he doesn't have to immagine what it's like to grow up in a working class family. it's a part of him and that shows.

[Renew Deal]

3. When will he drop out?

That's the only thing he needs to be talking about.

[berner59]

5. What's so bad about Edwards??

I do think he has the right passion for this fight and he's articulate and personable - he's everything Bush isn't... I'm all set to back ANY of these candidates but I'm not ready for any of them to drop out - they all have great ideas and when you put all that together, the Dem Party will have a winner in 2004. We haven't even had a primary yet, why drop out??

[kanrok]

6. Hey Berner

Don't try reason in these posts. It frankly doesn't work. I am for the nominee the Dems put forward. Anyone but Bush. I also happen to like Edwards. He is personable and does have his heart into the fight. I don't understand the "vehemence" some posters have about other nominees, I guess I just don't get it.

[returnable]

10. It isn't "vehemence"...

I just don't think Edwards is adding anything to the discussion and he isn't even polling well in his backyard, South Carolina. (I'm still waiting for his campaign to produce that poll that has him leading by "double digits".)

In the meantime, his continued presence drains airtime away from stronger contenders and what fundraising base he has could be going to other candidates.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[returnable]

69. Uninformed opinion?

"He's in first place in every poll except one from the last month."

Please post links.

As for getting little airtime, he's been given full hour-long treatments on "Meet The Press" and "Hardball" in recent weeks. He's getting a chance to "air" his message.

And it ain't connecting.

"You remind me of a few Republicans I know."

Whatever :eyes: You're the one going negative.

I've never said anything bad about Edwards or his policies.

I've just stated the obvious:

His campaign has no heat.

[AP]

73. The polling

has all been published here.

The polling that matters will be the polling on primary day. Let's see how that goes, eh?

As for time on TV, the last two weeks have been a little better, but, you notice what it takes to get coverage? With Hardball, it takes giving EVERY candidate an hour. Edwards didn't get anything that nobody else got. As for the coverage from this week, it too making Dean the focus of the discussion. That always gets attention, becuase that's a way to make it about Dean even if Dean isn't on the screen.

[kanrok]

79. I wasn't referring to you

I was referring to the poster who called Edwards an "idiot" which is untrue by any definition of the word. You have cogent opinions which are always welcome. Even if I disagree.

[Renew Deal]

8. Edwards shouldn't have run.

I actually kind of like him. He just doesn't seem to be on the same level with everyone else. He isn't pulling in any cash or new supporters. I heard a rumor this weekend that he will drop out before NH. It's not a bad idea. We need to thin out the field.

[AP]

11. He's number 3 in raising money, and the media has ignored him ever since..

...he came in first in fundraising in the first quarter.

All things considered, he's doing great.

He's building a foundation of support in NH that is solid. I think there's a kind of support that sways, and there's a kind of support that, once you work to earn, doesn't go anywhere else. Edwards is building that latter, not the former. If he keeps on this arc, he'll be just fine. If he doesn't, he will have made a noble effort to save America from itself that we should all applaud.

There’s no shame in running a campaign on increasing middle class wealth and opportunity. There’s no shame in rejecting PAC and DC lobbyist money. There’s no shame in a career spent fighting large negligent corporation on behalf of the people injured by them. There’s no shame in arguing for a liberal internationalism and democracy for people all over the world.

However, there should be a little shame in people who find the need to smear Edwards because they know their candidates don’t live up to the high standards he has set.

[chimpymustgo]

12. Edwards is running the marathon with skill and grace.

AP: "They know their candidates don't live up to the high standards he has set."

Right on.

[Renew Deal]

22. Smear Edwards?

I didn't do that. I posted an opinion saying that he is in the wrong place at the wrong time. I did not say one negative or untrue thing. Like I said, Edwards is OK, but he is not ready to play with the big boys. Of course it is scary to think Dean is a big boy.

[AP]

28. Veblen...

..."vehemently" opposes him, and you repeated a rumor about dropping out that was totally anonymous and wasn't supported with any evidence. I'm sure if I tool 5 minutes and cut and paste from this thread and others on the first page at DU, it wouldn't be hard to compile a list of silly shit.

[AP]

9. Weak candidates need Edwards to drop out. He makes them look bad.

Also, Deaniacs are pissed about the confederate flag issue. They should be happy though. Dean has been getting exactly what he wants with it: he's solidifying his meta-message as a moderate who wants to appeal to white people by making them think racism is about them. Edwards is staking his territory as a Democrat who wants the black vote.

Everybody is getting what they want. The Deniacs should love Edwards for helping Dean get his message across.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. i take any negative comments like this as a mark of success

ya'll didn't used to bother with Edwards. i guess he's starting to represent a threat. i think he is the only candidate to have a firm lock on any of the early primaries.

[Renew Deal]

32. It's not strategic.

It is my opinion. I posted it because it was a related thread. There isn't an anti-Edwards conspiracy going.

[AP]

36. I'm addressing opinons. I'm sharing mine.

[returnable]

4. "I have a double-digit lead in South Carolina"

Must've come from the same poll that said Kerry had 15-point lead over Hillary...

:hi:

[CWebster]

21. I wish he take it back from whense he came

Snot nose.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. i'm sure you do but

competition is the strength of the primary process. as much as some people would like to call it a day now and crown a winner, the race goes on. Geph is pulling ahead in iowa and Kerry is ready to pull out all the stops. and Edwards just keeps raising money and reaching people despite the lack of media.

[CWebster]

29. 50% of his money is from trial lawyers.

not only do I not like what he says when I hear it, but more than with any other candidates, my ears just close when Edwards start to talk out of the side of his mouth. It is the strngest thing - and it happens every time. Must be all those pretty sweet litle nuthin's he come up with.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. well it's good to see your dislike is based on substance </sarcasm>

[AP]

37. Edwards says that the money he gets from lawyers is from

people who appreciate what he has done throughout his career -- fighting for the little guy.

I know plenty of lawyers who like this guy, not becuase they're expecting anything in return, but because they know where he's coming from, and they knew what it took for him to get where he is now -- ie, hard work and a committment to ideals.

[CWebster]

38. There isn't any

precisely the point.

[AP]

33. exactly right. There is a value in having a healthy competition from which

the best ideas and candidate rises to the top.

I wonder what people are thinking when they want to circumvent that healthy competition.

[bearfartinthewoods]

41. imho, they fear the shifting sands.

the best time for the race to end is while you are still in the lead....

every debate, every forum represents a chance that their candidate will step in it again. it has to be wearing, considering how often they have had to go through :the morning after" already. everytime
a candidate chokes on the foot in his mouth, more and more people begin to wonder if it's worth the risk of that bad habit continuing into the general election.

did you see the cspan forum this am from the press club? there was a pubbie woman their who could hardly wait to deliver the latest talking point.

"Dean tells us to ditch God. that's like telling us to give up sweet tea" this is the zinger inspired by Dean's attempt to dig his foot out of his mouth from the confederate flag flop.

i can totally understand, given the way things are going, why they need everyone else to quit the race race quickly.

[CWebster]

43. You mean like when Edwards

tells Northerners that "we don't need YOU coming down here, telling US what to do".

You think we don't recognize THAT code?

If he wants to play that game, what makes him think he is welcome on our turf?

[bearfartinthewoods]

47. i think you misread the statement

of course if you identify with Dean i understand your mistake.
just for the record, he wasn't speaking of northerners in general but to Dean in particular...but you know that don't you?

[CWebster]

59. What makes you think he has the right to say that to anyone

not from the South? We are all in this country together, who the hell is he?

It is obvious what he is up to and it sets my teeth on edge. Then again, I won't mention him again and hopes he fades into the obscurity he deserves.

[DemPopulist]

91. What gives Dean the right....

to act like everyone in the South is a bunch of gun-loving, Confederate-flag-waving morons that need him to set them straight?

[CWebster]

95. The Southerners Dean referred to

are the ones exploited by the Right through the use of divisive symbols which give provide a false sense of superiority while keeping them steeped in poverty. Dean was not referring to progressive or enlightened Democrats.

FOR THE ZILLIONTH TIME!

[AP]

52. I'll bet you 1000 bucks that that spin won't get any traction.

Back to the drawing board.

[MISSDem]

53. Edwards is the only one of the candidates who understands

how the average citizen lives her life. He is the only one who "gets it".

[Demobrat]

57. I can see his commercial now.

Dean bla bla bla Dean bla bla bla bla Dean Dean Dean bla bla bla bla Dean Dean Dean. I'm John Edwards and I approved this message because Dean is a poopyhead. Dean.

[bearfartinthewoods]

61. the commercial i see substitutes Dean's words for the blah blah blah

the poopyhead part would then be uneccessary.

[Demobrat]

65. Any way you slice it.

It's all about Dean.

[bearfartinthewoods]

74. no, it isn't, that's the point

with the exception of the flag flap. Edwards has not been hitting on Dean. i think he responded to the flag gaf because it hit to close to home. Edwards is a southerner, like all of our recent presidents were southerners. he understands what flys with southerners because he is one. if you think a former Vermont governor who had to request a black roomate in college so that he could get to know a black person has a better chance of reaching southerners, either white or black we will have to agree to disagree.

one parting thought....LBJ, Carter, Clinton all southerners. maybe we need to consider a trend here???

[Demobrat]

81. Uh huh. We'll see what the spots are about.

And how many unflattering shots of Dean can fit into 30 seconds.

[bearfartinthewoods]

85. yes...30 seconds isn't long and there is so much material

i guess they'll have a couple different ones and rotate.

[DemPopulist]

92. The ads have zilch to do with Dean

Zilch. There's no pictures or mention of any other candidate. It's all positive.

[jeter]

72. "It's a place where I'm going to be strong naturally. I'm...

...going to win South Carolina."

Famous last words.

Remember Bush was ahead by 30% in SC until McCain won New Hampshire, then it was: adios lead, bon jour Bob Jones University.

[rumguy]

88. Anyone who can face down corporate America

in the courts, where the rules are written to favor the powerful, would make a good candidate.