For Dean, Love Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry

[DrFunkenstein]

I was looking something else up from Dean's MTP thrashing when I came across this, and I thought it would be relevant in light of recent events regarding the Mason-Dixon line. And ultimately relevant because of the "serious question" Russert asks Dean.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, let me show you exactly--here's the headline from today's Washington Post and I'll show everybody: "Last week, Dean issued what was his third apology to a rival presidential candidate. After telling the Associated Press that he did not consider Sen. Bob Graham a 'top tier candidate,' Dean recanted, telling the news served that he regretted the remark.

Earlier this year, he apologized to Rep. Richard A. Gephardt for tagging his broad health care initiative a 'pie in the sky' plan. Beefier that, Dean apologized to Sen. John Edwards after accusing him, during a Democratic gathering in California, of muddling his position on the war in Iraq."

This is what an aide to John Kerry had to say about all of this. "What we haven't figured out yet is whether these harsh, personal attacks are part of a long shot's strategy to get noticed, or whether this unpleasantness is just intrinsic to his personality. Or both." A very serious question - Do you have the temperament to be president?

DR. DEAN: Not only do I have the temperament to be president but I have the honesty to be president. When I make a mistake, I'm very pleased to apologize for it. The fact is that a lot of this stuff is about what goes on spinning, and I'm surprised the reporters take the bait all the time. I've issued one apology, and it was an apology I ought to have issued. I mischaracterized John Edwards' position in March at the California convention because I didn't know what he had said.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, you apologized to Bob Graham.

DR. DEAN: No, I didn't.

MR. RUSSERT: You called the AP and recanted the statement.

DR. DEAN: I called the AP and said, "I'm sorry I said that."

MR. RUSSERT: Well, that's an apology.

DR. DEAN: No, it's not.

MR. RUSSERT: "I'm sorry I said it" is not an apology?

DR. DEAN: I didn't actually say I'm sorry. I said, "I shouldn't have said it because it's not my business to handicap the races." Look, Tim, if I make a mistake, I'm happy to say so, and I'm happy to say why I made a mistake.

But to say that I don't have the temperament to be president, I actually think maybe I have a better temperament to be president because wouldn't it be nice to have a president who's actually admitted he was wrong when he made a mistake. If I insult somebody by mistake and it's my fault, I'm very happy to say so.

....

MR. RUSSERT: Is there a risk, though, that you'll be seen as described in Time magazine today as a bomb thrower and not have the statesmanlike qualities necessary to be a president?

DR. DEAN: I think that's up to the American people to decide.

http://www.bigleftoutside.com/archives/000051.php

Any word on whether Dean apologized for mischaracterizing Clark as Republican? How about the apology to Kucinich for the mischaracterizing TV ad? Any regrets for characterizing Democrats in Congress as "cockroaches?"

------

Oh, I might as well throw this one out there to chew on after Dean's recent debate performance:

The front-running candidate in a field of nine said his blunt-speaking ways may some day get him in trouble. Rivals hope his campaign will implode, and Dean said he knows one way that could happen.

"I do have a mouth on me," the former Vermont governor said aboard a small charter plane taking him here from Albuquerque, N.M., site of the first major debate of the 2004 race.

"That is, I generally say what I think so I get in trouble," Dean said.

Could he hurt himself? "If I blew up in a debate or something like that, yes," Dean said. "But I haven't done that in 16 years of debates."

http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0903/101470.html

------

Which sounds awfully similar to this:

"When people get in my face, I tend to get in theirs," Dr. Dean said in the interview at The Times. "Al Sharpton was in my face last night and I was not going to step one step, half a step, backwards, and I don't care who's in my face.

"I tend to be reflective rather later than sooner," he added. "Now, unfortunately, we all know that nobody's personality is perfect. So the things that make me a strong candidate are also my Achille's heel."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/campaigns/06DEAN.html

I should remind people that there are four jobs of a President: Chief of state, commander-in-chief, chief executive, and chief diplomat.

[mrgorth]

1. I love him

Fight the Power!

[NicoleM]

2. Do you think

he would be a worse Chief of state, commander-in-chief, chief executive, and chief diplomat than Dubya?

[DrFunkenstein]

4. That's Setting The Bar High!

I don't think Cheney would be worse than Dubya! At least he speaks English!

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. that's a low bar, from where i stand.

and you have brought up an issue that's been bugging me for a while.

what does it say about a person when it is sooooo hard for them to apologize? i ean the trait is obvious and i'm sure there are some psychcologists here who might venture a guess as to what it means?

my stepfather was like that...i'd share my opinion but mine is obviously tainted by personal experience with the type.

[Skwmom]

36. I can just see getting the vote out in the general election

with that approach. When you have to fall back on those types of arguments you know you are in trouble.

[Hep]

3. ITYM

Any regrets for characterizing Democrats in Congress as "cockroaches?"

You mean comparing their hypothetical scurrying to that of a cockroach.

Dr. Dean, are you sorry for using literary devices when speaking? Do you regret not conveying your comments on a more remedial level?

[DrFunkenstein]

7. That Is Flat Out False

"That is flat-out false," an angry Dean shot back, "and I'm ashamed that you would compare me with Newt Gingrich. Nobody up here deserves to be compared to Newt Gingrich."

Gephardt said at one recent debate that Dean "supported, at our darkest hour - when I was leading the fight against Newt Gingrich and the Contract with America, he was shutting the government down - Howard, you were agreeing with the very plan that Newt Gingrich wanted to pass, which was a $270 billion cut in Medicare. This is not the view of Democrats, in my view."

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/6984706.htm

<>

In Iowa on Tuesday, a potential voter asked Dean how he would handle entrenched Beltway bureaucracy. As the New York Times reported, the Iowan "mentioned Republicans and Democrats alike, and Dr. Dean made no distinction."

Dean responded that if he won the presidency, lawmakers in Congress were "going to be scurrying for shelter, just like a giant flashlight on a bunch of cockroaches."

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000763.html

[slinkerwink]

9. whoa.....

the fact that you would go to such lengths to post that picture.......


:nopity:

[Hep]

14. Not a big deal

It's good illustration of how many people get it wrong. Usually out of scorn.

[_NorCal_D_]

41. Personally,

I think it's an accurate portrayal, but I suppose that the truth can hurt for some Dean supporters! B-)

[ldf]

58. nope

doesn't bother me a bit.

the DOCTOR IS IN!

}(

[Hep]

10. You proved me right!

Dean was wrong to say he was compared to Newt. I don't think he stood with Newt, but Gep never COMPARED them.

And the fact that Dean made no distinction between R's and D's doesn't change the fact, as you prove with your providing the quote, that Dean never said congress were cockroaches. He was grammatically incorrect, though, seemingly likening the scurrying of congress to the flashlight, rather than the cockroaches. That is, the FLASHLIGHT wouldn't be scurrying for shelter, but rather the Cockroaches. But it's still just a SIMILE.

[Hep]

11. So you can correct that subject line

whenever you feel.

[DrFunkenstein]

19. Make The Spinning Stop!

"Dean was wrong to say he was compared to Newt. I don't think he stood with Newt, but Gep never COMPARED them."

So Dean was wrong. Cool, we agree.

"That is, the FLASHLIGHT wouldn't be scurrying for shelter, but rather the Cockroaches. But it's still just a SIMILE."

Simile: A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as.

[Hep]

27. Everythingis spin when you don't agree

But this is the language here.

Simile: A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as.

OK, so Dean compared scurrying to scurrying. He didn't compare congress to cockroaches, just the act of their hypothetical scurrying.

See, when you try to make it sound like Dean is comparing congress to cockroaches in that cockroaches are vile creatures that we hate, you're misleading people. We all have an image in our heads of what happens when the lights are turned on. That's the image he was using.

So stop already.

And I'll point out that in what Gep said, he DID intend to play to our perception of Newt as an evil man. I haven't been able to look at it any other way, although I'm open to any argument.

[sangh0]

39. That's just amazing!!!

So hep, you think Dean was comparing "scurrying" to "scurrying" and not "Congressmembers scurrying" to "cockroaches scurrying"?

Is that your final answer?

[RetroLounge]

54. Makes you wonder who you are working for...

It's hard to believe it's a Democrat.

Agreeing with the plan, and agreeing with shutting doen the Government are 2 different things.

Hard to grasp, hey?

[Skwmom]

40. Remedial?

A little bit of class would be nice. I don't expect a presidential candidate to act like someone I'd see on the wrestling channel or Jerry Springer. Is a president I could be proud of too much to ask for? In the US it obviously is...

[bearfartinthewoods]

48. honestly...can you put your mind to it and find a better "literary device"

than mentioning the congress of the United States and cockroaches?

sweet tea! even if he is the nominee and he does beat bush, you think all those cockroaches aren't going to remember? you are talking about people who have egos of their own you know. seriously,
you see all those senators and reps just laughing off a threat like that?

[depakid]

5. Get over up already

Everything you post seems to be just another form of twisted and distorted Dean bashing. Aren't there any other issues that interest you?

You seem like a one trick pony, and that's sad- because I'm sure if you thought about it, you'd find many other more interesting and relavant issues to discuss.

[slinkerwink]

6. I agree

:nopity:

[DrFunkenstein]

12. My Pro-Kerry Thread Was Dumped

As a duplicate - when it was not. I post lots of pro-Kerry stuff that somehow finds its way down the pike much faster than my anti-Dean forays.

What can I say? People don't want to discuss policy.

[Hep]

16. There's a simple explanation

Kerry has a LOT of good qualities. He's good on a lot of the issues. The reason why ANTI threads last so long is because there is so much reaction to the inflammatory nature of the post as well as correcting misinterpretations and history on both sides.

[mdmc]

37. yeah, policy sucks

go for the charicture. go for the personality... I'm a big Kerry fan and I will carry petitions for all the dems, especially Kerry and Clark, because they are the favorites of local dems. But I'll ask everyone to sign for Dean. Many people have already told me that they don't like Dean (actually, they say they are scared of him - that he is too hostile and angry, not that he is too liberal), and I can accept that. Either way, I hope to be a delegate to the DNC in Boston. I might be unpledged or pledged to Dean. I'll carry for Leiberman and everyone else, too.

[depakid]

38. PLENTY of people want to talk policy

and we do, especially when the boards aren't innundated with cherry picked quotes, loaded statements or outright candidate bashing. Frankly, I think that's when people on this board are at they best- doing comparative policy. Everyone learns something and tends to be less compulsive and visceral.

[JNelson6563]

42. oh please

your thread was a dupe. You posted your own opinion on something there was already lots of threads about.

Face it Funkenstein, we don't all believe your opinion is so much more valuable than everybody else's that it warrants a new thread.

Julie

[DrFunkenstein]

51. Do You Even Know What You Are Talking About?

I posted about 10 minutes after the news came out. I posted my reaction as a grassroots supporter to the news, and not the news itself. I didn't include any references to an original article and certainly no links.

I don't know where you get that there were lots of threads, because the news was barely 10 minutes old.

[La_Serpiente]

8. I don't

the one who really bashes around here is DJ Cairo.

I think he brings up legitamate points sometimes. In fact, we need to question or candidates sometimes.

[mdmc]

18. I'm a Dean supporter that could care less

If Folks thrash him. I'm out there day and night spreading the word for the good doctor. Let Funkenstien thrash him or hype up Kerry, whichever he feels is most productive to unseating Bush. Funkenstein, I love how you get under my fellow Deanheads skin. If they can't take it from you, the pugs are gonna thrash them! PEACE AND LOW STRESS to all. Unify after the primary, thats all I ask.
:dem:

[DrFunkenstein]

24. Absolutely! I'm Dean's Biggest Fan If He Wins

In fact, if it becomes clear that he is going to win, you'll never hear a bad word from me.

Until then, though, I think he is a dangerously bad match against Bush.

And I CANNOT handle 4 more years!

[MODemocrat]

46. I'm an avid Dean supporter, and every knock equals a break

It's true that Dean does say some off-the-wall things, but, he is also misquoted at times. We need to watch all of our candidates and try to be more constructive. Each and every one of them have their
(mostly good) and not so good qualities. :silly: :eyes:

[flpoljunkie]

20. Any criticism of Dean is seen as Dean bashing;get over your bad self!

The race for the Democratic nomination has been joined. Dean, like all our candidates, is not exempt from criticism.

[bearfartinthewoods]

45. what could possibly be more important that who our candidate is?

nothing i can think of.

[Ripley]

13. Dr. Funk in Deflection Mode

So, ahem, is Kerry doing Ok? Or is it more like defection?

[Eloriel]

15. Mischaracterizing Clark as Republican??

LOL -- that's reaching.

You mean Clark finally registered as a Dem now? What date was that, btw?

Eloriel

[slinkerwink]

17. calm down.......

I'm a Dean supporter, but cool it about....Clark....he won't win anyway

:-)

[_NorCal_D_]

47. We'll see about that!

B-)

[SahaleArm]

21. Clark never registered...

before running so he was an independent. Dean's motto is 'never let the facts get in the way of a good rant'.

[HFishbine]

26. Huh?

Say, waaahhh?

[SahaleArm]

34. OK I fixed it.

My other reference was to a scene in Animal House where Bluto talks about the 'Germans bombing Pearl Harbor':).

[mdmc]

33. wait... Clark isn't a registered Dem?

I thought he joined up alittle while ago. :dem:

[SahaleArm]

35. He's registered as a Democrat.

I was responding to the claim the Clark was a Republican. Before he registered officially as a Democrat, Clark was not registered to either party.

[Scott Lee]

50. Like Putin is a life long non-communist

V. Putin turned in his KGB badge as the post Soviet government was pounding on his door. A wise, convenient and timely move.

Much like Clark's move to the Democrat Party.

[SahaleArm]

67. Your analogy is bogus.

Clark never had a Republican badge in the first place.

[Donna Zen]

60. Quiet until now

The buzz is that Dean supporters are using the "Clark is a repub" on the campaign trail. I see that some here are still up to the meme. Clark was not registered as an Indy, because Arkansas had no party check off at all until the '90's. Go figure.

BTW, I feel as if this is the week we lost the election. More about that later.

[SahaleArm]

68. Don't leave us hanging.

BTW independent is the same as having no party affiliation.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. Selective Memory?

Howard Dean's repudiation of his alleged similarities to Newt Gingrich is not without comedic value. At the same time he has deemed comparisons to former speaker below-the-belt, he repeatedly blasts his fellow Democrats as "Bush-lite."

But the Gingrich shot seems to have gotten under his skin. On this morning's "Today" show, he lashed out: "Even Wes Clark, who was a Republican until 25 days ago, could not reasonably be compared to Newt Gingrich." This is a cheap shot worthy of a quick dissection. For starters, Wes Clark has declared time and again that he was a "non-partisan" during his military career. He says that he voted for Clinton and Gore. Howard Dean knows that Wesley Clark was never a registered, partisan Republican. Bob Schieffer even pointed it out to him last Sunday. But why let these facts get in the way of a good smear?

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=794

[_Jumper_]

29. How would you feel?

Let's give him a break. How would you feel if you'd spent months campaigning only to have someone come out of the blue and take the lead in national polls? Even now, despite having received much more media attention and raised exponetianally more than Clark, Dean barely leads him in the polls.

[_Jumper_]

30. Dupe

n/t

[_Jumper_]

31. Dupe

n/t

[_Jumper_]

28. He registered at a recent NRA dinner

Right after he finished speaking to people who have racist symbols on their pickup trucks and denounced Medicare. It was all in a day's work for a representative of the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Paty."

[mdmc]

32. There is a Du'er

with a pic of Leiberman and a sig. line with a quote of Clarks. It really isn't a pretty sig. line. Clark must have been at a GOP fundraiser. :dem:

[farmbo]

25. Your right...Dean should go with focus group- tested pabulum...

Does anyone-- including Gephardt-- really believe that Dean wants to dismantle Medicare? That he's in ideological league with Newt Gingrich?

That's absolute rubbish!

This is what Gephardt ALWAYS does, in the general election or primary: spin some innocuous statement for its effect on social security or medicare, then use it to scare the hell out of seniors...focus group tested pabulum.

Dean's a big boy and will take his lumps on the "criticism". But why in the hell should he apologize?

[depakid]

43. Gephardt's attack on Dean Re: Medicare

really did border on dishonesty. It was hollow, misleading and disengenouos. If were half way logical (in context) it might even rise to the level of sophistry. But I don't think Gep's that crafty.

Put Gep (with his plan in hand) one on one against Dean (no notes) and see who comes out sounding more rational- and more pragmatic in terms of policy that may actually have a chance at becoming law in the next few years. Dean's plan is incremental- it has to be, given all of the entrenched interests. Many of the early elements are familiar and have a reasonable chance of being enacted (or delivered) step by step),

Gephardt's plan (which I don't necessarity disagree with) is too ambitious to pass at this point (barring WW III or some particuarly virulent pandemic). Congress and the K Street boys will never let it happen, which essentially makes it meaningless in the short run.

Gep (the consumate insider) knows this and so his only recourse is to attck Dean over statements he reflected on 10 years ago.

[JNelson6563]

44. Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean!!

In an hourlong interview on a public radio program in Concord on Wednesday, Mr. Kerry, who two months ago publicly chastised his campaign manager for assailing Dr. Dean, again and again turned questions about his own views into attacks on Dr. Dean, until his host finally politely asked that Senator Kerry use his time to talk about Senator Kerry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/politics/campaigns/09DEMS.html?pagewanted=2&hp

Just like your candidate, you've got the floor yet you don't promote Kerry, you (unwittingly) promote Dean. *yawn*

Julie

[Scott Lee]

49. Better a temper, than a brainless shill for big business

I'll take my chances with Dean, thanks. You can have Bush.

[DrFunkenstein]

53. That's My Concern: Dean = Bush

Not that Dean is anything like Bush, but that Bush will wipe the floor with him. That makes me very, very nervous.

I'm not so stupid or prideful that I would oppose Dean if he gets the bid. In fact, I'll be his biggest fan.

BTW - Who is the shill for big business? Kerry has never taken a dime of PAC money, while Business Week did an article raving about how Dean handled those pesky environmentalists for Vermont corporations like IBM. In fact, Dean all but dismantled clean election laws in Vermont. So who is the shill?

[bitchkitty]

59. Wait a minute -

"That's My Concern: Dean = Bush"

That's ridiculous. Who would you rather run against him? Kerry? Please.

[DrFunkenstein]

61. Why Not Kerry?

War hero vs. AWOL. Chaired Committee against Terrorism vs. Blustering Unilateralism. Environmental Champion Vs. Big Oil. Strong Bipartisanship vs. Polarizer. Brains vs. Smirk.

And Kerry's tax cut plan is actually the plan Bush argued for, as opposed to actually created. Bush would be toast on this issue.

Kerry has statesmanship and is a magnificent debater. Bush is a likable frat boy knucklehead who constantly puts his foot in his mouth when off the cue cards.

[Scott Lee]

64. Kerry has it all but the SKILLZ. He's got no presence.

Kerry, outside of his outrageous support for a criminal war, does have a lot in the plus side of his political life. But in the end, he doesn't have the presentation to persuade people to vote for him.

Odd? Yeah. Maddening? Absolutely. But there it is nonetheless.

Scream all the nasty stuff you want about Dean, but he's proving daily that he can persuade people. Persuaded people vote. Voters can turn us around and throw the sitting criminal out.

All purely pragmatic stuff. I think that Kerry should definitely be a part of Dean's cabinet.

[Scott Lee]

63. The shill I was referring to was Bush. Not to worry.

I wasn't flipping nearly the amount of poo at Kerry that the Dean haters flip at Dean. I think current events speak for themselves, and require no cascade of incessantly lying attacks on Kerry.

[RetroLounge]

52. This is why I love Dean.

Thanks for your post!

Better than the mealy mouthed pink tutu Dems that he's gonna thrash in the primary election...

[DrFunkenstein]

55. He Actually Looks Pissed In Your Sig Line!

Very Presidential!

[RetroLounge]

56. Marsha Marsha Marsha

In an hourlong interview on a public radio program in Concord on Wednesday, Mr. Kerry, who two months ago publicly chastised his campaign manager for assailing Dr. Dean, again and again turned questions about his own views into attacks on Dr. Dean, until his host finally politely asked that Senator Kerry use his time to talk about Senator Kerry.

DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN
DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN DEAN

[bitchkitty]

57. This thread looks awfully green,

and I don't mean the poliical party.

Dean's going to win.

[Scott Lee]

65. Dean will win. And the Dem party establishment will implode.

It will be a two part glorious sight.

[Donna Zen]

62. All will be used...all of them!

And no amount of money will buy the 24/7 cables or the nasty print that we are heading towards.

As for the cockroaches comment...just you wait and see. Every Democrat running for the Congress will be fighting that one off. It will be a thing to behold. Do you think Rove will want to put anything in context?

Sure I know you love Gov. Dean. Personally, love would be to strong a word for me, although there was a time that he was my first pick. Last Spring I was catching him whenever I could. Yes, the MTP, really made me uneasy. So, I looked around because I will vote Democratic and I want to win.

Now I'm watching this entire mess slide into place, and probably down the toilet. Gov. Dean has said many things, but Rove doesn't have to look much further than national security issues and the fat lady sings. Why so few here understand that, I don't know. Why so few here question why the press is hyping Dean, I don't know. Do you think that the corporate media suddenly like us?

Well love may conquer all, but it is not going to win the general election. Does anyone have the link where Dean says that he disagreed that we will always have to have a superior military? I saw it here the other night. Maybe AP posted it.

We have three candidates that can possibly win the White House, and we have the opportunity because another round of shrub makes many uneasy. Damn, we came so close. But this is the week I feel we lost the election.

Thanks Dr. F. And yes, Kerry is one of the three.

[camero]

66. He's a Doctor

And doctors never admit that they're wrong.