Should the flag desecration amendment (H J Res 4) be adopted?

[goobergunch]

108th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 4

In The Senate Of The United States

June 4, 2003
Received; read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

---

Joint Resolution
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein),

Section 1. Constitutional Amendment.

The following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

`Article--

`The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.'.

Passed the House of Representatives June 3, 2003.

Attest:

Jeff Trandahl,

Clerk.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_bills&docid=f:hj4rfs.txt.pdf

Mods: The above has been public domain from THOMAS and GPO

[goobergunch]

1. I vote NO. (n/t)

[Hokie]

2. No

What a waste of effort. An anal law promoted by anal people.

[Egnever]

3. Not just No

HELL NO!

[alfredo]

4. Any such infringement on our rights does much greater

damage to the flag than some guy setting one on fire.

[Atman]

5. Of course not.

.

[RC]

6. How about a Constitution desecration amendment instead?

Not much that this administration has done would have passed muster.

[karlschneider]

7. Jeez, goober, why not put up a poll asking "Do you want a large sweaty

gang of thugs to break into your house, rape your mother and cut your balls off?"
:D

[goobergunch]

8. /me heads over to the lounge and hits the "Poll" button....

:evilgrin:

Actually, I was curious to see whether anybody supported it....

[karlschneider]

14. Woohoo!

:D

[realFedUp]

9. all those little plastic flags lying on the ground

after they fell off cars were run over
or pushed into storm drains by street sweepers.

The flag is on everything from coffee cups
to little keychains and boxer shorts. This
is ridiculous to change the Constitution
to ban flag desecreation...

get a grip guys...this is an election year
but don't lose your bloody heads over this
one.

[knight_of_the_star]

10. I voted yes

Because of the ambiguous wording. Now if this passes it will be illegal to tie a flag to your SUV's antenna and get it all frayed and torn and sucklike. I think that would be considered "desecretion" for the purposes of the word.

[karlschneider]

13. Well, technically it is already "semi-illegal" according to the US Flag

display code. dammit, should have found a link before I wrote this, but you can google it easily enough...
:eyes:

[Democrats unite]

11. Rep. Craig Washington (D)

"I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag."


I myself may not like flag burning, but I will fight for the right for anyone to be able to do it.


Bill

onedit: spelling

[ibegurpard]

12. If it is then they need to arrest all the freepers

who fly dirty, tattered little flags on their pickup antennae.

[hobbes159]

15. Nope

Here's a movie quote for you from "American President":

"The symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free. "

(also like this one):
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. "

[goobergunch]

17. Nice quotes!

:thumbsup:

[guajira]

16. I've Never Burned a Flag --- however....

If it becomes illegal, I will buy a small flag, put it in my kitchen sink, and burn it. Then I will say - That is one freedom they can't take away from me!!!!

[jonnyblitz]

18. ummm....no.

politicians for this amendment are pandering.

[Selwynn]

19. Isn't this the same amendment bill that goes up every year...

..and its defeated every year?

[Character Assassin]

20. Never. Ever. It is sheer emotional cosmeticism, bereft of all reason

And the lubricant of the joints of automatons.

[izzie]

21. As if that will make us better Americans.

Trouble is that there are people who just love their gun oh I mean flag.

[Scairp]

22. Of course NO

This has got to be one of the most absurd reasons I have heard of to amend to Constitution. Don't they have better things to do than to get their knickers in a bunch over the two people each year who burn a flag in protest? I guess the economy and other frivilous issues that used to be nagging at them have been solved? Jerk offs.

[MrPrax]

23. I voted...who cares...burning flags?

Unenforceable outside of the US, where the flag is likely to be burned and I am sure there are enough liberals and Patriots in the US that will try to save old Glory for various reasons that it is unnecessary for another law by Big Government...

BTW it says 'desecration'
--could be simply lefties having a demo with a US flag unside down as a universal symbol of capture/surrender...that would be enough to
1) arrest anyone
2)fine the organizers
3)scare anyone of using the American flag as a symbol
...hell a backdrop at the podium of the 'wrong' group could be gone enough for a trip to Gitmo...
Hanging it in your window if your a 'known' agitator to police would be enough...
Essentially ensure that the flag and it's true holder remain a symbol of loyality and patriotism and NOT citizenship
Etc. etc...

[Silverhair]

24. No. It must remain legal. At the same time...

judgement should be used by the protester. Choose your time and place carefully. I remember an incident during the Vietnam war in which a protester burned a flag next to a construction crew of hard hats on lunch break. That was back when their hard hats were metal, not plastic. They took considerable offense, and expressed their offense most personally and directly. Dozens of workers swinging pipe wrenches waded into the crowd of demonstrators. Cops didn't see a thing, no charges filed.

I remember one city that passed an ordinace making hitting a flag burner a $5.00,(Five) fine. Don't ask me which city. Long time ago.

[GreenArrow]

25. No! NO! NO!

This is kinderspiel. Aren't there more important things for these people to be working on? It's a waste of time and money.

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. I'll vote "yes" if it means.......

this motherfucker is the first one arrested for the crime....

[dflprincess]

27. I voted no

The wording is interesting, "Congress shall have the power.." So it sounds like the amendment itself would not outlaw "descration", Congress would still have to act.

Interesting, isn't it, how conservatives are always proposing amendments to the Constitution that limit rights? Most of the amendments have expanded them.

[goobergunch]

28. Yep

Congress would have to pass a law defining "desecration."

[w4rma]

29. No on amendments to the U.S. Constitution. (n/t)

[tom_paine]

30. Without LIBERTY, the flag is just a piece of cloth.

Some dumb bastards want to burn it. Let 'em. Free Speech. They can't burn the flag in China, eh? Why not?

Of course, Imperial Amerika is not about Free Speech, that's just a holdover from the Old Republic soon to be done away with anyway.

[Scott Lee]

31. According to Clark it should!

....

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Even Kucinich voted for this

http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=234

[populistmom]

33. No, a law like that is an oxymoron

Inhibiting freedom of speech to protect the symbol of our freedoms. Huh, what? Makes no sense. The flag is nothing in of itself. It's a symbol. Without the Consitution behind it, the flag means nothing. America is not a flag, nor a song, nr the national anthem, nor the Pledge of Allegiance.
America is the people and the Constitution that stands behind us as protection. I wish lawmakers were more concerned with protecting it, than pieces of cloth.

[burr]

34. no...for three reasons.

1) If you make the official rules and regulations the standard for flag desecration, they will be able to imprison us all. I'm sure there are some Nazis who would love to round up some neighbors for "flag desecration." Not the best use of our tax dollars when we have terrorism to fight, and a $6 trillian National Debt!

2) If you make flag burning un-Constitutional and illegal, you would be imprisoning people for doing the patriotic thing under the official flag rules!

3) The founders of our country participated in many kinds of outspoken forms of radical public descration in the Boston Tea Party and when Tarring and Feathering tax collecting public officials, somehow I don't think our forefathers or foremothers would approve of this amendment.

<http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html>

[Festivito]

35. Desecrate Constitution vs. desecrate flag, sorry flag, NO!

Patriots fought and died to establish freedom, not a flag.

The problem here is that the stupidity of this legislation is so grandiose that outing its supporters embarasses us all.