Dean = DLC? Where's the proof?

[bitchkitty]

For the third time I've read this on DemocraticUnderground. Each time I have asked the poster to offer proof, but nobody answers.

I've searched and searched, and I can't find one single document that says that Dean is part of the Democratic Leadership Council. I found plenty to indicate that he is most certainly not DLC, and plenty to indicate that they don't like Dean, nor he them.

I've stopped Clark-bashing (although IMO it was not bashing, but questioning) but one thing I never did was tell outright, bald-faced lies about him.

I'm asking the people that keep repeating this to offer proof, once and for all, or stop spreading lies.

[quinnox]

1. Dean was a big part of the DLC

when he was a governor of Vermont in the 90's. He was a poster boy for the DLC.


Edit: If you want proof, you'll have to ask someone else. I am just repeating what I have read about a million times before on DU.

Who knows, maybe it was a mass hallucination and Dean never was part of the DLC.

[HFishbine]

2. There you go Kitty

What more authoritative source do you need beyond the all-seeing quinnox?

[Terwilliger]

6. shhhh!

he's busy starting another pro-Clark thread

[Padraig18]

4. Impressive citations and links, quinnox.

:eyes:

Search no futher, bitchkitty...

[MrSoundAndVision]

5. I'll only support Dean if Kucinich doesn't win the nomination but

offer some proof of that. Writing it doesn't make it so.

[bitchkitty]

10. Repeating what you've read on DU?

I've read it on DU too, but baby, that doesn't make it true.
Hedda answered my question satisfactorily, but I'd still like to see some kind of documentation, be it a news story, government site, whatever.

[hedda_foil]

3. When he was governor ...

He was a member of the DLC. He broke with them. They don't like him because he broke with them. End of story.

[bitchkitty]

9. Thanks, hedda -

I did not know that. It doesn't affect my respect for Gov. Dean - used to be with them, and broke with them, and now they hate him? That sounds like my kinda Prez!

[blm]

12. He did NOT break with them. They only list CURRENT officeholders.

Dean's term ended at the beginning of 2003, so he wasn't listed and that's why you didn't see ut.

The DLC fights with Dean now because he switched some positions in the spring to accomodate his new antiwar support coming from the left. So they figured if he was going to pretend he was a liberal then so would they.

[w4rma]

7. the DLC leadership vs. Gov. Dean

Dean Statement in Response to DLC's Charge that Public Servants are "Fringe Activists"

“Once again, the DLC has chosen to put their own political agenda ahead of the progress needed to unite the Democratic Party. This election has barely begun, and the DLC has repeatedly dismissed people who attend caucuses, who get out the vote, and now the 1.3 million members of AFSCME as ‘fringe activists’ who do not reflect ‘the mainstream values, national pride and the economic aspirations of middle-class and working people.’

“The DLC staff can say what they want about me, but they owe an apology to the 1.3 million members of AFSCME. Our teachers, our health care workers, and our state and local public servants don't need a lesson from Washington insiders about the needs and concerns of middle- and working-class families. What they need is a Democratic Party that will stand up for them.”

Posted by Mathew Gross at 04:27 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000206.html

Tell From and Reed of the DLC What You Think
Click here to sign a letter to the Democratic Leadership Council telling them that you're an active Democrat who supports Howard Dean. You can tell your friends about the link, too: www.deanforamerica.com/DLC

Posted by Mathew Gross at 01:29 AM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000240.html

Fineman on the DLC Memo
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000213.html

Former DNC-Chief Steve Grossman to DLC: "Creating Conflict is Not Leadership."
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000225.html

Liberal Oasis on Howard Dean and the DLC
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000226.html

Will the Real DLC Please Stand Up?
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000228.html

Congressional Members Call on DLC to Stop Divisive Tactics
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000238.html

Activists Are Out of Step
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251866&kaid=85&subid=65

The Real Soul of the Democratic Party
By Al From and Bruce Reed
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251690&kaid=127&subid=900056

[Andromeda]

41. Great links w4rma...

n/t

[fsbooks]

8. I expect betrayal once Dean is President

Power is corruption. But I am voting. I am voting for Dean because I feel his stated positions are reasoned, even if I disagree with them at times, and even when I disagree, I feel that my opinions are somehow encorporated in his decision/action. There is also the meetup. Now they are meant to keep him elected. Once elected, they will be to keep him informed and maybe somewhat in line.

[CWebster]

11. Dean was DLC when he was Governor of Vermont

during the Clinton years. He no longer is - thought they had some good ideas in the past but have now moved too far to the Right.

Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman are still DLC.

[blm]

13. Except Dean is further right than Kerry and Edwards. Dean did NOT break

with the DLC. He was not listed in 2003 because he is not a current officeholder.

[Pastiche423]

16. Either provide proof

of what you say, or we will all know your words mean nothing.

[blm]

18. You didn't say that to hedda foil or Cwebster who know he was DLC.

They know it because this had been hashed out here before. Sorry I'm not an operative who downloaded the proof, but links were posted here before when this came up.

[Pastiche423]

21. You cannot provide proof

thus your words are meaningless.

You are really damaging your credibility here.

[blm]

28. Here's one article from August.

There were other links posted here at DU of old DLC lists, but, I couldn't get them thru the DLC site. btw, Pastiche, I have never posted one false article about Dean and his centrism. The whole meme being pushed here about my credibility is just that...a meme. Thankyou.

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_1295.shtml


U.S. News/Comment
From Tweedle Dick to Tweedle Dean: Ho-hum Democrats Get Ready to Blow Another Chance, DPW, August 22, 2003
By Daniel P. Welch
Aug 22, 2003, 08:46

>>>>>>>>
One new mantra is that Dean is being "picked on." The Nation points out that, despite seemingly favorable coverage, the press just doesn't seem to like him personally. It seems a bit disingenuous, though, to fault the media, whose obsession with Dean, and in particular, whose collusion in sculpting Dean's image as a liberal has catapulted him to the forefront. And yet the mislabeling continues. Hugo Young writes a brilliant analysis in the Guardian ("American Voters Have Two Choices: Bush or Bush-lite,") However, even Young mischaracterizes Dean as "the most lefty of the candidates." This is demonstrably untrue. Many candidate's positions are exactly along the lines of what Young seems to advise: that Democrats need to "abandon their backing and filling, and their belief that being a Democrat no longer adds up to anything more than a milder version of their enemies."

True, the liberals in the race are indeed lagging in the polls, if these are of any value beyond name recognition at this stage-and many pundits will defend their facile mislabeling by qualifying that they are focused on "the viable candidates." Until one of these campaign yields tangible results in the primaries, they will continue to be dismissed. But this quasi-left image, carefully nurtured by Dean's supporters, belies his true positions on the issues. Even if we dismiss the liberals, the fact is that Dean's own rhetoric places him squarely in the middle of the triangulating camp decried by Young and so many others, including, it seems, most Dean supporters, were their man subjected to a blind taste test a la Pepsi v. Coke.

But don't take my word for it. The Democratic Leadership Council, the right wing of the Democrats, until recently touted Dean as "just the kind of centrist, New Democratic governor" needed to reform the party (i.e., move it, in Young's turn of phrase, 'so far into the orbit of its rival as to render itself meaningless'). This is, of course, anathema to the left wing of the party, such as it is, not to mention the left in general. But far from being the man of the moment to rescue the country from this asphyxiating me-tooism, Dean is instead the very epitome of it-every bit as much as the bulk of his rivals for the nomination. By trying to portray his agenda as more "left" than it actually is, Dean is delegitimizing exactly the kind of challenge from the left that might revive anti-Bush forces. While the press is generally focused on Dean's "anger at Bush," or his willingness to "take on Bush," few delve more deeply.

Dean's faux-left image is dangerous, and, despite his supporters almost fanatic belief to the contrary, is actually a hindrance to building a coalition that will "take back America." Go ahead and be 'tough on crime' if you are deluded enough to think it can buy a few (white) votes in Texas (or worse, if you really think the problem with the greatest Prison Nation on earth is that we are somehow incarcerating too few people). Just don't pretend it's something it's not. Try to keep in mind, though, that we live in an age where the extremist cabal in Washington stole the election, in part, by exploiting the disenfranchisement of ex-felons, real and imagined, to get where they are. Scrubbing these disproportionately minority voters is a key element of stealing and keeping power in the GOP grand strategy-in Florida it alchemized a loss into a win, and casts the same, long racist shadow over much of the Old Confederacy. With more black men in prison than in college, "tough on crime" has long been establishment code for institutionalized racism. Charles Ogletree commented, in the lead up to the Michigan decision, that a society whose army is all brown and whose law schools are all white has a serious problem. Those who miss the moral reasons might at least be coaxed for demographic and logistical ones that such "toughness" depends on perspective, and that pissing on your own margin of victory does have its down side. What many of us feel is that it is more difficult, not less, to win such a cynical campaign. And to do so is to try to raise an obscene amount of money, even if it means backing away from the one hard-won mechanism--matching funds and spending limits--that might be built on to rescue the political process from the monied cesspool in which it now festers. And Dean is making noises about doing just that.

This is not picking on Howard Dean, no matter what the more thin-skinned of his protectors might say. The point is that Dean is no different from his more mealy-mouthed rivals except in the packaging that surrounds an old message: a DLC puzzle, surrounded by an antiwar enigma, wrapped into a media hype mystery. The part that makes the left's blood boil is that he pretends to be different. But in Dean's own words: "I was a triangulator before Clinton was a triangulator." The most noted of his "left" positions, his so-called antiwar stance, is also fraught with holes. As a state executive, Dean has been free to wax (and wane) philosophical on his views about the war, never backed into the corner of commiting himself to a singular course of action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Pastiche423]

31. What meme?

I have been listening to you bash Dean for almost a year now. There is no meme, just your mouth.

Now, I have read your article twice now, and nowhere does it say that Dean is now a DLC memeber.

Once again, either provide proof, or stop lying.

[TLM]

35. In is a big red flag when the hit piece can't even quote

one full sentence in context.

[blm]

36. I didn't say he was NOW a DLCer

I said he was till the end of his term in 2002. The 2003 list does not include him.

How is pointing out that Dean is a centrist a bash, when he himself says he's a centrist? My beef is that he campaigns differently than he governs, which has been finally noted by a few reporters, and that's why I don't trust him.

[Pastiche423]

38. You din't?

"blm (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-11-03 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #3

12. He did NOT break with them"

[blm]

44. The claim was made that he broke with them, when he didn't

break with them. His term as governor expired and he was not listed for 2003. That's NOT making a personal break for ideological reasons.

If it were ideological reasons as was claimed, then point to several issues in the DLC platform in Jan. 2003 that are too far right of Dean as was stated. I'll bet it's easier to find issues where Dean is further right of the DLC then further left. As far as I know, the DLC wasn't keen on deregulating electricity, and most DLC members don't get high ratings from the CATO Institute the way Dean did as governor.

[Pastiche423]

48. Just say it, blm

Howard Dean is NOT A MEMBER OF THE DLC!

[sangh0]

49. Dean WAS member of the DLC

He is no longer a member because he is no longer in office. Dean never resigned from the DLC. He was no longer eligible for membership.

[Pastiche423]

52. No, say it right, blm

Howard Dean is not a member of the DLC.

Speak the truth!

[sangh0]

58. Dean WAS member of the DLC

He is no longer a member because he is no longer in office. Dean never resigned from the DLC. He was no longer eligible for membership

And *that's* the truth.

[bitchkitty]

33. Disagree -

Howard Dean speaks his mind, and sometimes he says stupid things. But then, so did my dad, my uncles, my cousins and my husbands. I don't think he's a liar. The author is mistaken in his opinion.

BTW, I am not questioning your honesty, blm, and certainly not your credibility. I just kept seeing this here and there on DU, never with a link or a cite. I come here when I have time, which isn't often (took me forever to get to 1000) so I miss a lot, and I had never seen any articles on Dean's DLC connection. I probably should not have started a thread about it, but I was frustrated!

[Scott Lee]

39. Wow! An opinion piece!

Well there ya go folks. Proof positive!

[blm]

45. Several Dean supporters in this thread have acknowledged Dean was DLC

as governor. Catch up and learn more about the candidate you support. Most people scrutinize BEFORE they support. Those here who don't know this information, don't know their candidate as well as they claim.

[Scott Lee]

46. But IS he now? You can dislodge foot from mouth anytime....

You Deanophobes are adept at pointing out Deans past or shortcomings that he has overcome. You are also evasive at noting his ability to learn and change - a hardcore leadership quality that none of the other candidates seem to possess.

Why don't you "catch up" on that one.

[sangh0]

50. Dean WAS a member of the DLC

but is no longer eligible for membership because he doesn't hold any office now. Dean never resigned from the DLC, and never expressed (AFAIK) any disagreements with them until after he decided to run for President.

[AP]

53. Didn't he also chair a DNC committee for recruiting Dem Governor...

...candidates?

What was his success rate with that committee?

[Tinoire]

54. Help me out here

What is AFAIK?

I keep seeing this pop up at DU and have no idea!

Thanks :)

[Pastiche423]

56. AFAIK = As Far As I Know

Bookmark Amy Strange's site for:


Democraticunderground.com (Unofficial)information Glossary (Dictionary)


http://dug.seattleactivist.org/

[Scott Lee]

59. Bingo!

Dean didnt disagree with the DLC until he started to run for president...

MAYBEEEEE because he saw that the DLC is the Democrats' worst enemy when it comes to getting presidents elected at this time?

See once again you start out trying to bash Dean for a shortcoming when in fact it is one of his strengths: in this case, his ability to learn, grow and change. Adaptability: a trait that scares the hell out of DLC statists and establishment types.

Thank you for being so supportive of a progressive ability to learn and change.

[sangh0]

60. There's one problem

with your "ability to learn and change" argument:

AFAIK, Dean hasn't ever acknowledged changing his DLC opinions. If you know where he has explained his changed of opinion, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

[CWebster]

22. Whatever

Dean is not a member of the Democratic Leadership Council, the group founded in 1985 to promote centrism within the party, but he reads their literature and says they have some good ideas.

"At the beginning I think it was very good, because I think the party wasn't winning elections because we were too far to the left," he says. "Now I think the party has moved too far to the right."



http://www.progressive.org/may03/rc0503.html

[blm]

30. But, you won't back up the truth with Pastiche. Nice.

You know those links were posted here. You know Dean was listed till he left office. Everything he said against the DLC was AFTER he shifted his own campaign from center to left, and brought on Trippi.

[Pastiche423]

37. How can I prove a negative?

When I 1st heard about Dean (anyone remember when Centaurmyst was here?), I went to the DLC site to see if he was a member. It was important to me to find out if he was, because I despise the DLC and what they stand for.

I do/did not know the links were posted here. I do know that he was not w/the DLC when he brought Trippi aboard, though.

[Tinoire]

61. He's still close enough to them to have participated at the DLC's

Annual Meeting. Clark was there in person and practically the guest of honor. Kerry phoned in. Dean joined by videoconference.

Haven't read what Kerry or Dean had to say. Did watch the Clark video though. I still think Dean is too close to the DLC and really wonder why the DLC is going to great lengths to remain in the back-ground for these Presidentials as if not to "taint" any candidates. This really, really bothers me. I hope the people saying Dean isn't DLC are right and that I'm just overly cynical. It doesn't help me that so many known loyal DLC lovers at DU are behind him. I'll say this for Dean though- the non-Liberals, the most right-wing among his supporters- at least they're Centrists! If I start seeing more than a sprinkling of Reagan Dems/Republicans, I'm out of here- that's one seal of approval that will kill him for me. But is he DLC? I really hate not having an official break and the continued coziness. That fact that the known non-DLCers were not at this meeting- not even invited (and this was back in June) is worrisome. The other thing that kills me are the extremes the DLC is going to to paint him as some sort of an ultra-Leftist Liberal they can't stand when in fact he's a Centrist and constantly referred to as a New Democrat on Blogs, logs, and even Dean sites. :shrug:

I'm still undecided mostly because of the respect I have for some Dean supporters, like you, like HeddaFoil, who I know are DLC-haters and would have researched this.

Check this out from a search of New Democrat at the official Dean web-site. I'm not Dean, but if I had broken with the DLC, I wouldn't have this stuff on my site:


WILL THE REAL DLC PLEASE STAND UP?
Friday May 16, 2003
By: Communications Office

DLC Praised Dean on Health Care, Centrist Position (May 16, 2003)

BURLINGTON, VT On Wednesday, May 14th, the Democratic Leadership Council released a memo that dismissed Governor Howard Dean as an elitist liberal from the ''McGovern-Mondale wing'' of the Democratic Party. It wasn't so long ago that the DLC was praising Howard Dean as an exemplar of moderate, centrist Democratic positions. Governor Dean's record hasn't changed. What changed at the DLC?

10.27.00- The DLC praises Governor Dean's prescription drug plan as the "Idea of the Week".

"Governors Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Howard Dean (D-VT) and Angus King (I-ME) jointly announced their three states would come together to create a regional purchasing pool for prescription drugs...Best of all, the regional plan will rely on market mechanisms"

11.8.96- The DLC posts a memo on their website Claiming Dean's re-election victory as Governor of Vermont was evidence of the success of New Democratic leaders.

"State election results provide additional evidence of Democratic resurgence under New Democratic leadership. Centrist Governors Howard Dean of Vermont...won re-election comfortably."


11.4.96- The DLC posts a memo on their website praising Dean as a Centrist, popular Democratic Governor, and predicts he will win re-election easily.


"Democrats in state politics, regardless of their background, tend to be New Democrats by instinct, in part because they are responsible for making public institutions actually work to help citizens solve their most immediate problems. Incumbent centrist Democratic Governors Howard Dean of Vermont...popular and heavily favored for re-election."
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5992

=============================================

New Democrat Annual Meeting 2003

http://www.newdem.org/annualmeeting/


Governor Bill Richardson (NM)
Annual Meeting Co-Chair
Full Text of Remarks


Senator Joseph Lieberman (CT)
Full Text of Remarks


Governor Howard Dean (VT)


General Wesley Clark (Excerpts)
Clark's Complete Speech: http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/kdrive/c04061703_newdemocrat.rm


Simon Rosenberg, President, NDN http://manatt.net/simon.ram


Pollster Mark Penn


Representative Artur Davis (AL)


Candidate for Governor Joe Andrew (IN)


Senator Mary Landrieu (LA)
Annual Meeting Co-Chair


Senator Bob Graham (FL)


Senator John Kerry (MA)


Senator Blanche Lincoln (AR)


Representative Jane Harman (CA)

Full Text of Remarks


Sergio Bendixen of Bendixen and Associates manatt.net/bendixen.ram


Representative Bob Menendez (NJ)


Scott Heiferman, CEO, Meetup.com

NDN News Release on Meetup.com

[AP]

62. That's pretty good proof.

What say those who think it isn't?

[HFishbine]

23. TRUE! BLM is correct.

While he is no longer an officer, he still does work for the DLC:

This is from DLC website:

"Former Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean, continues to volunteer with the DLC. Governor Dean provides countless hours in the service of helping to control the stray cat population in and around the DLC offices. While Dean has always been a voracious cat eater, never even bothering to cook them, he has now adopted a more aggressive technique where he rips kitty fetuses from the womb and swallows them whole. This should really cut down on the cat problem. "I enjoy it," said Dean, "they're tasty and nutritious and it's something any good democrat would do."

source: http://www.ndol.org/deanpussyeater.htm

[Pastiche423]

24. The DLC really should have

put "cat" in their URL.

Or maybe I should start thinking cleaner thoughts.

[bitchkitty]

25. hahahahaha!

Thanks, I needed that!

[Andromeda]

42. Hahahahaha...

Just too funny!
:bounce:

[Gman]

14. Dean is in the DLC's AND the DNC's hip pocket

beware.

[Padraig18]

15. He also eats kitten fetuses.

:P

[RetroLounge]

17. Yes, but he cooks them first.

eom

[Jackhammer Jesus]

19. FALSE!

I demand proof!!

And I happen to know for a fact that he ALWAYS allows the kittens to mature before he eats them!

[arcos]

20. link!

This is from 1996, at the DLC website:

"State election results provide additional evidence of Democratic resurgence under New Democrat leadership. Centrist Governors Howard Dean of Vermont, Tom Carper of Delaware, Jim Hunt of North Carolina, and Mel Carnahan of Missouri all won re-election comfortably."

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=2535&kaid=127&subid=173

Disclosure: I support Dean, and I don't see anything wrong with him being a former DLCer, especially considering he is now at odds with them.

[bitchkitty]

26. Thanks - that is

what I was looking for. I don't care if he was a DLC'er either, as long as he isn't now, and I think that all of us can safely assume that.

What I've read on these forums are things like "Dean=DLC" or "he's one of them". If those aren't lies, they're deliberate misstatements.

Dean's going to win!

[KittyWampus]

29. Of COURSE Dean Is At Odds With Them

How the heck else could he pretend to be an outsider?

[bitchkitty]

43. Uh -

so Dean is pretending, and the DLC is playing along? How clever.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. I researched it months ago.

Dean was a member of the DLC as Governor.

From here you have two choices:

1. He still is a member and all the anti-Dean comments from Al From, et al, are devious sub-plots to convince people that Dean is not DLC, although he really is.

2. He isn't any more.


Occam's Razor

Ock·ham's razor also Oc·cam's razor ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmz)
n.
A rule in science and philosophy stating that entities should not be multiplied needlessly. This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Also called law of parsimony.

[arcos]

40. I couldn't agree more n/t

[sangh0]

51. Here's what I researched

Bush* is the President

From here you have two choices

1) There was an elaborate conspiracy implemented over a period of years, to elect fellow conspirators to positions where they could influence the 2000 Election, conspirator judges to the Supreme Court, and still yet other conspirators to get jobs in the media where they could get the media to falsely call the election for Bush*. The conspirators did all that, and on Election Day 2000, they stole the election

2) Bush* won fair and square.

So what does Occam's Razor tell you about this?

[redqueen]

55. Zing!

Thanks for that breath of fresh air, sangh0.

All this denail was getting making the room a bit stuffy.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. Doesn't really matter if he is IMO.

It's not like it's the KKK or something...

[blm]

34. Hi gore....

On DU, though, you'll find that the DLC is considered Satan. Not by those who understand it's just a faction of the party that hashes out ways to do things.

[redqueen]

57. Be specific...

"ways to do things"

Really would be more accurate if it was articulated thusly:

"ways to emulate republicans", or "ways to appease corporate interests"... you get the idea.

Yes, for those of us that resent the 'drift' to the right, the DLC is most certainly a corrupting influence in our party. Much like Satan is believed to be in some religions. :)

[LoneStarLiberal]

47. Here's A Link

I think, like most of the conspiracy stuff for nearly all the candidates, it's crap, but here's a link to some crap on this topic:

<http://kucinichwatch.com/support/Howard_Dean_leader.htm>