Kristof - Hold the Vitriol -Maybe we at DU can learn something from this

[La_Serpiente]

I think we have reached a junction for the Democratic Party. Should we continue down the critical path or should we look to the future optimistically and leave all our bothers aside?
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Hold the Vitriol
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: November 12, 2003

Considering the savagery with which the Snarling Right excoriated President Clinton as a "sociopath," blocked judicial appointments, undermined U.S. military operations from Kosovo to Iraq, hounded Vincent Foster and then accused the Clintons of murdering him, it is utterly hypocritical for conservatives to complain about liberal incivility.

But they're right.

Liberals have now become as intemperate as conservatives, and the result — everybody shouting at everybody else — corrodes the body politic and is counterproductive for Democrats themselves. My guess is that if the Democrats stay angry, then they'll offend Southern white guys, with or without pickups and flags, and lose again.

A new report from the Pew Research Center says that America is more polarized now than at any time since its polling series began in 1987. Partly that's because it used to be just the Republicans who were intense in their beliefs, while now both sides are frothing.

The latest Progressive magazine features the article "Call Me a Bush-Hater," and The New Republic earlier published "The Case for Bush Hatred."

more....
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Soo, this article is

(Sorry, forgot to add a dissenting option for the poll)

[jpgray]

1. Bush has had more judges approved than Clinton did

Context and research are still not words in the media.

[Melinda]

2. I had to vote "other"

You didn't provide a "Fuck 'em -- this is war" option.

[bitchkitty]

3. There's a very crucial difference:

we tell the truth. And believe it or not, we can win without these 'Southern white guys' if they choose not to vote for Dean. I happen to believe that they will, in large numbers.

That said, I reserve most if not all of my vitriol for chimpco. Elitist nazi pricks really make my blood boil.

[Flying_Pig]

4. I call bullshit. It's apparently been OK for the right to savage us for

years, and when we finally get pissed off and fight back, giving them a taste of their own medicine then come calls from "frothing mouths" like Kristof, to be more civil. Bull. If there's one thing we should have learned over the years, it's that the only thing you get back when you extend the hand of civility to a Repuublican, is a bloody stump. I don't care for any of your poll choices either. I am for kicking their asses, no hold barred, until we can save our country from the chasm of fascism the Republicans are pulling is into.

[La_Serpiente]

8. Sorry, I forgot to add a dissenting option

edited

[ibegurpard]

13. How do you nicely reason with those who are working for your extinction?

I particularly like this quote:
"If there's one thing we should have learned over the years, it's that the only thing you get back when you extend the hand of civility to a Repuublican, is a bloody stump."
As someone pointed out in another thread, the reasonable, good public-policy Republicans are a dying breed. They are few and far-between and they're definitely not driving.

[The Magistrate]

14. Indeed, Mr. Pig

It is time to fight, without restraint and with no quarter given. Real damamge must be done. The wavering center is not moved by content of argument, but by its passionate heat. The regulars must be kept at a roiling boil, eager for action.

"LET'S GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[KoKo]

5. No, I think we are angry and should be. Holding all that anger in is

unhealthy. And, most of us have done it too long. After the mid-term elections last year when they pulled the stuff they did, that was it. I'm angry and I'm going to stay that way. The other way of hanging back and waiting and hoping that Faux will play nicey nice, or that Matthews, Coulter and Russert will turn into Fair and Balanced along with the rest of the media is the path to defeat.

Nope. We need to have riteous indignation. As a Christian (not fundie) that's what I feel when I'm not pounding tables and stomping my foot at Bush when I have to see or listen to him speak.

He really is an enemy of America at this point. Sorry...but he is.

[Dr Fate]

6. I see- so we should either not be angry, or pretend not to be...

...I will admit that it should be a guided anger- humor helps too...

[WilliamPitt]

7. We go civil. They continue to attack. We lose.

Not a winning strategy.

[Eloriel]

9. Other: Oh, puh-LEEZE

We're dealing with fascist THUGS, fer cryin' outloud. They only "respect" they accord is reserved for those whom they can't bully into submission.

It's not about civility any more, it's about stopping the fascist steamroller, and saving democracy.

This just makes me angry as hell.

You DON'T stop bullies from bullying by turning the other cheek. If there's anything we should've learned by NOW, it's that fact.

And it's not about "payback." Not even close. It's about FUCKING STANDING UP TO THEM AND FACING THEM DOWN. For our very survival.

Editedto add: Besides, sociopaths have no conscience and no internal machanisms for playing nice within sociatal bounds. They don't respond to "nice" or "fair." They just gleefully take advantage of it.

Eloriel

[maggrwaggr]

10. may they swim forever in their own boiling shit

I say fuck the motherfuckers to hell.

I despise them with a passion I've never felt in my 41 years of living on this earth.

They are dangerous treasonous pigs.

They're just in shock that we're finally fighting back.

Most of them are just plain evil.

[frank frankly]

11. yep yep yep

they ain't never seen the likes of us.

what a shock to them it will be at the RNC convention.

[Dr Fate]

12. Hate vs. Facts

If I say that Rush Limbaugh is a lying, hypocritical narcotics addict- is that hateful, or factual???

If I call Bush a liar, and back it up with 100 examples, is that haterd or just a factual statement??

It's so much that we hare the GOP, it just that we tell the truth about them...

...since we cant help but appear angry about their lies and injustices, Bush/media tries to deflect the factual accusations by cwritting it all off as "hate"...

[Isome]

15. We don't engage in the same kind of namecalling they have...

We reserve our creative vitriol for policy and job performance, we don't stray far outside of those confines. The same cannot be said for rethuglicans. America is now more polarized because enough is enough! Too many Democrats are tired of playing the spineless whipping boy to their Simon Legre.

As someone else has said, we also have truth on our side. We're not making shit up like they did (and do); we don't have too.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. Hate The Policies, Dismiss The Man

Making it personal only deflates the legitimacy of your argument with the unconvinced. Believe me, that is what the GOP is getting at for the 2004 election.

I will tell you outright that I would like to be able to unite with conservatives and Republicans to find some sort of common ground. I wish very dismissive of such thoughts when 9/11 happened and everyone was calling for unity - because I thought it was bullsh*t. But now, I really wouldn't mind trying to build a bridge to them without having to compromise anyone's held beliefs.

Similarly, people here are always ready to toss centrist Dems on their ear. I am a very liberal person, but I don't see the point of building walls, burning bridges, and posting "keep out" signs.

Kerry is talking about foreign policy here, but I think the sentiment is the same:

"We face a renewed choice - between isolation in a perilous world, which I believe is impossible in any event, and engagement to shape a safer world which is the urgent imperative of our time.

A choice between those who think you can build walls to keep the world out, and those who want to tear down the barriers that separate "us" from "them." Between those who want America to go it alone, and those who want America to lead the world toward freedom.

I am here today to reject the narrow vision of those who would build walls to keep the world out, or who would prefer to strike out on our own instead of forging coalitions and step by step creating a new world of law and mutual security."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_0123.html

[politicat]

17. I'm highly in favor of educated, civil disdain.

So I'm an academic. Sue me.

When dealing with the leadership, I'm sick of sound bites. Big words, tough concepts and withering disdain when they didn't learn the vocabulary while they were majoring in Cheerleading at Yale.

When Dealing with the rank and file, then sound bites and bumper stickers are the only communcation - but gods all mighty, humor sticks in the brain better than anger. (Wanna see the studies?) If we make 'em laugh, we are more likely to make 'em think.

When dealing with the pundits, we have to shout them down. It's the only communication they know. And as Jerry Springer has shown, it sells.

Politicat

[grasswire]

18. calling Dems angry Bush-haters...

....is the particular play of Karl Rove. If they say we hate Bush as Pugs hated Clinton, then our criticism is nullified as pure partisanship. Hating Clinton was savage and silly, and much of America was turned off by it. That's why Rove wants to equate their hatred with our criticism.

Don't participate in this charade. The criticisms of Bush are rooted in moral outrage for his/their offenses against democracy.

[juajen]

19. I voted "screw the mo-fo"

We need to get angry and stay angry. It is anger that propels us. We've played "nice" long enough.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

20. Fuck the right, I want to fight

Little ignorant pig fuckers. Shit-eating cockersuckers.

Let's corrode the entire country. It's time to fight fire with fire.

Damn the consequences.

[Julien Sorel]

21. It's OK to be angry. It's OK to be motivated by anger.

But it's foolish and self-defeating to make decisions based on anger, and -- this is Kristof's most timely point -- it's electoral suicide to go into an election with a message of anger, no matter how angry you are, no matter how angry you have the right to be, because it turns voters off.


Most of us have figured out who was the target of this piece by now, I would hope.

[kodi]

22. bullshit. no liberals are calling repubs traitors who should be shot

kristoff is nuts, and a spineless lackey who is a rich fuck who doesnt have to suffer from what the right wing has done to this country.

it must be nice to have a cushy job at the times and never have to worry about a job or health insurance

the rightwing generated the hate and now when the democrats and liberals in general defend themselves and are beginning to give as good as they have taken over the last 30 years and have begun to bloody the right they want to make nicey nice. with the amazing mendacity of kristoff as their cover.

fuck him and the goat he road in on. you reap what you sow.

this is the same as starting a bar room fight by sucker punching someone, then, after beginning to get the shit beat out of you call for the fight to stop.

the difference here is that the democrats and liberals are not going to get back the ground they lost over the last 30 years by playing fair if they stop now. they will have lost a great deal of ground and national influence and will set themselves up for the next time the rightwing attacks because as sure as shit comes out of a goose's ass, the right will do it again and again and stop only when they recognize they are on the defensive.

the right wing took a page (a whole frigging chapter) right out of mein kampf with what they have done and all kristoff did was suck his teeth and attack clinton

payback's a bitch.

these busheviks are just like the old bolsheviks. the only thing they fear is strength.

when kristoff starts demanding vociferiously and constantly in his columns to the point where his own job is on the line that bush come clean about wmd in iraq, 9/11 and demand bush withdraw his divisive federal judge nominations who are outright fascists and racists from the senate confirmation hearings as a call for commity, i will begin to consider kristoff is serious.

until then he is still a part of the problem.