Kerry's campaign decline is very disheartening....

[vi5]

I'm an undecided voter at this point. But for a long time I thought Kerry was going to be our best shot, even if I wasn't ready to put my support behind him just yet.. And a lot of my independent swing voting family and friends thought the exact same thing. On paper he has an unbeatable record (and as far as swing voters go I am including his IWR vote on there, despite what I personally may think of it). In fact among the entire field he was easily the most "presidential" IMHO. But watching how his campaign has fallen victim to incompetent handlers, and how now those same handlers are jumping ship and betraying him for firing Jordan and trying to get some semblance of control over his campaign is sad to see.

I'd like to see him turn things around even if he doesn't outright win, because I like the guy and what he stands for. But watching him this primary campaign has brought back some unsettling feelings like the ones I got watching Gore campaign in 2000. Pandering to the press, making every move seem calculated, and playing follow up by being 2 steps behind the media rather than 2 steps ahead.

Again, I'm hoping he can turn it around because it's sad for me to see someone who has done so much and been through so much go down like this, but I wish I could say it was someone else's fault. But like with Gore, the decision to listen to or not listen to one's handlers and staff ultimately falls with the candidate himself.

I'm sure this will get flaming from some Kerry supporters and even worse gloating from Dean supporters, so fire away.

[IndianaGreen]

1. Read David Zephyr's excellent thread on this topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=694826

[NewGuy]

2. I don't know why you would get flamed.

You are right. For whatever reason, Kerry has run a poor campaign and is paying the consequences. I think as the field gets narrowed down this will help all Democrats. We need to get a candidate through the primary with his platform and his wallet in good shape to go agains bush*.

[deutsey]

4. I, for one, am not gloating over this

I support Dean, but this is very sad and I hope Kerry can pull his campaign together.

[tsipple]

16. Duetsey, Well Said

I'm definitely not jumping for joy today, and I have the same first choice for the Democratic nomination. It's a bit like watching a Little League game. You want the whole team to do well, and you want your kid to do even better. Or at least you want everyone to have fun.

This couple days has been a bit like watching another parent's kid get injured. Not fun.

[Octafish]

9. Here's why, NewGuy.

Check out response # 38. It's just one example of the sliming of Sen. Kerry. BTW: These started a year and half ago on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=49380

[vi5]

12. I've never slimed Kerry. In fact I've defended him plenty.....

On these here pages. I think in a lot of ways he's gotten a really bum rap. But like Gore, despite some of it being a bum rap that is out of his control, a lot of the things he's done have been nobody's fault but his own.

Believe me I'm not happy about any of this.

[HFishbine]

15. Deaner who likes Kerry too

and would like to see him remain competitive. But, he needs to get off the Dean, Dean, Dean message. It doesn't matter who started attacking who first. It doesn't matter if Kerry has a point. It doesn't matter if Dean has gained some ground by attacking Kerry. All that matters is that Kerry's attack-Dean strategy is not working. In fact, it's failing miserably. It's time for something new.

[NewGuy]

23. Politics is a tough game

Clinton was attacked repeatedly and fought back effectively in the primary. This is true of all who have ended up winning in a primary. I agree with the many posters who say it would be nice to see them all do well, however, we need to get to the point of having a primary in the first place. We need to get out the end of this operation with a candidate who can win. This means we need one who can fight effectively in the political arena. Kerry is obviously not the person to do this.

[elfin]

3. I agree

He should have revamped his advisors much sooner. As much as I like Dean, I do not think he will "wear well" with the general populace. No matter what the reality, it will be spun that he is "abrasive", "hotheaded" versus "regular guy" causing people to vote on personality rather than issues.

I was an early donor to Dean - but now am rooting for Clark, Kerry, Gebhardt and Edwards in that order.

[vi5]

5. That's what makes this harder for me......

I will support Dean if he is the nominee. And I continue to be in awe of how well his campaign has been run and how good a primary campaign it has been.

But I remain firmly convinced and steadfastly cynical in my belief that the general election against bush will be a whole different ballgame and that no matter how uncomfortable people are with bush* that they will have too many reservations about Dean and will either go with the devil they know or will just not be motivated to vote at all.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

8. Give Bush/Iraq another year

People will begging for a hotheaded and abrasive candidate. Wasn't Bush a hotheaded candidate, voted on by his personality rather than on his issues? Do you think swing voters, a year from now, are going to vote for somebody who gave their approval, then recanted their approval, of the Iraq war? I agree with you that Clark is a good candidate as well, but he has no executive government experience - he'll be a sitting duck. It's time for everybody to rally around Dean.

[vi5]

11. My entire circle of family and friends are "swing voters"

They are centrist (if anything left leaning), moderate, independent swing voters. And they find Dean completely unappealing. While I don't agree with all of their reservations about him, their opinion of him is very telling to me. These are people who voted for Clinton, voted for Gore, and who don't like Bush. And they simply find Dean to be completely unpresidential and one-note.

It's depressing.

[w4rma]

22. Dean is, IMHO, the candidate with the most fleshed out policy positions

Extremely massive information dump on Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. (v2.0)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=41214

[vi5]

24. That's all well and good....

And for me and other hardcore dems that's great stuff.

But swing voters don't vote based on elaborate policy information, and thinking that they do is ridiculously naive. They want to vote for someone that gives them a feeling of comfort and confidence. If a candidate doesn't have that then no policy dump will change their mind.

[w4rma]

26. Fine with me. I don't see a problem with that either.

Especially with regards to Dean.

Example: Dean is the ONLY Democratic candidate I feel I can promote somewhat successfully on Libertarian-leaning pro-gun boards.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

Not all people think the same. I'm turned off by "emotional" entreaties

The minute I start to feel that I'm in "church" and that people around me are getting overly emotional - that's when I "turn off." I could definitely be voted "least likely to join a cult" in any group.

Have you ever taken a Myers Briggs test? You have on one end the logical "thinkers" - (many attorneys and accountants) to the more "emotional" thinkers (social workers and artists). Most people fall somewhere between.

http://frontier.dreamhost.com/askmyers.htm

They call them "thinkers" vs. "feelers".

"You are an Thinker. "You prefer using logic to make decisions."
You are an ENTP. You are adaptable, very open to new ideas, especially about improving your competence or skill. You can be an ingenious problem solver, and can enjoy a good argument. You are interested in change, like to overcome new difficulties, and tend to employ creative applications in life and work. Famous ENTPs: Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt, Thomas Edison, Julia Child, Suzanne Pleshette, Valerie Harper.

"You are a Feeler. You prefer using personal values to make decisions. Sometimes you may neglect details and planning. You are flexible, open, creative, insightful, and people-oriented. You like working toward a general goal, using variety and experimentation, though sometimes you may neglect details and planning. Famous ENFPs: Mark Twain, Dr. Seuss, Carol Burnett, Bill Cosby, Sandra Bullock."

[w4rma]

25. I am an ENTP (and therefore a "thinker") and a Dean supporter. (n/t)

[MercutioATC]

27. Thanks for bringing that up. It's an important thing to remember.

Different people are motivated differently. The WAY something is said often makes as much difference as WHAT is said.

Especialy in the general election, our candidate would do well to kiip this n mind.

[La_Serpiente]

6. If you want Kerry as your candidate

than be there with him. Look at where Dean went with his supporters???? He went from a blip on the polls to the front runner and the endorsements of two of the largest unions in the US.

I think if you really believed in Kerry, he can go somewhere. He just has to know that he has supporters behind him 100 percent.

[vi5]

7. But I'm not a Kerry supporter....

In fact I'm not in favor of wholeheartedly supporting any candidate at this point. My desire is to focus on the general election and who can beat bush*. But my fear now is that if this is how Kerry runs a primary campaign then he doesn't have what it takes to run a campaign that will unseat you know who in '04. Which is sad given his resume and his credentials.

And as mentioned above I have no doubt that Dean can run a great campaign but I dont' think it will be one that can win over swing voters.

[pinerow]

10. Kerry was trying to run a "Gore-like" campaign, and we all

saw where that lead us.

[tsipple]

17. Well, Look at the Data

I just don't get this "fear."

Look at the polling data. Dean leads among independents (and even Democratic-leaning Republicans).

For example, Zogby polled New Hampshire to find some demographic group -- any demographic group -- that Dean didn't lead. He couldn't find one, and they were all astonishingly consistent. Men and women? Half his support from each. (No gender gap.) Union and non-union? Got 'em both. Democrats and independents? Check. Investors and non-investors? Sure. Liberals and moderates? You bet. African-Americans? Dean is second only to Sharpton in that group.

The only data that points to a possible demographic weakness at this stage is his support among under-30s. You would think from the popular press that that's his only support. No, actually that's the age group he does worst in -- although still very good. Given the way he's running his campaign, I expect that datapoint will correct itself soon.

Finally, show me another Democratic candidate who will have the ability to go toe-to-toe with the well-funded George W. Bush from March to July. There is none. And that time period could very well be the whole election.

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. I'm a swing voter and Dean is my favorite

He does have the "normal guy" thing you mentioned further up in your post. That's part of his appeal, his personality. He's been running a general election the entire time, and he's gotten new people into politics. If all those supporters will give him their money, they will vote for him. Dean is a perfect choice for anyone who is disgusted with Bush, and that's a lot of people. He will beat Bush, I have no doubts at all. If Dean can't be stopped by the attacks some of the other candidates throw at him even after they all join forces against him, he's going to be really tough for Bush to stop, too.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

13. Why can't a lot of these politicans admit when they're wrong?

They should take a page from the Bill Clinton handbook. Admit when you're wrong and apologize.

My favorite candidates Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark - they all have the same disease.

[emulatorloo]

14. I don't know, looks like a positive to me

Seems like he is tightening up his organization by adding what look to be some pretty good people.



Personally am still undecided between Dean and Kerry, but saw Kerry on Monday talking about Veterans Issues and he was confident and on fire. Attacks on * were well reasoned and passionate. Alternatives to * policy were well thought out and well presented. He was great with the crowd there, and his speech was very moving.

[UTUSN]

18. I'm a KERRY Supporter and *I'm* Not Disheartened

Funny how all the NON-supporters and undecideds are *so* pitying and "sympathetic" and willing to start thread after thread with negative headlines. But, just noticing.

[Cocoa]

19. how disheartening can it be...

if you're undecided?

I think you are thinking about the recent events in an exaggerated way. Kerry is still a very strong candidate, just because of who he is.

Of course, only one candidate can win, but take heart, they're all great candidates.

[xultar]

21. They said Clark's campaign was sinking also...

I incorrectly posted yesterday that the Fat Lady was warming up or that I could hear her in regards to Kerry's campaign. I was wrong to do that.

There is still a chance. I know he didn't pull out of IA primary so that will make it tougher but he can still pull it together. I hope he does. He was in my top 5.

So to Kerry supporters I apologize for my negative comments Tuesday.