Elderly, Rightwing, Christian Fundamentalist and Disabled.

[JanMichael]

I simply don't understand people.

I'll keep this short.

Just spent an hour with an elderly gentleman that came into my office searching for Public Funded Housing. Not that I have anything to do with it but he was directed to my office by someone who thought that I did.

So I sit down with the old guy and gave him some names and numbers of people that could perhaps help him out. I also engage him in some small talk because I could tell he was lonely. It turns out that he was a physician, that had a bad accident in his early 50's, and was now (in his 80's) broke. Of course he had been on Disability Medicare for 15 years prior to 65 and lived on SS. Actually the accident didn't break him, he gave it away (Charitible) after the accident, not that it's a bad thing but he is now flat busted.

First hint he was cracked? "You know Bush said that being a single mother was the toughest job in the world" I responded witha polite "Yes, of course he did".

Then the conversation started in about his name which somehow led to him telling me that his brother was/is a Christian Coalitian bigwig!

He was VERY lucid mind you, no dementia or Alzheimers, but very well spoken.

It ended with me walking him out of the office (Of course he gave me a hug) and on the way out was waxing poetic on how taking his orthopedic medical tools to Iraq, and getting killed by a roadside bomb, would be a "Blessing" because that'd save a soldier or some poor Iraqi...

So here's the dilemma: People collecting/benefiting from all kinds of Social Services like SS, Medicare, Public Housing etcetera, yet a Religious Fundamentalist and a Republican Bush supporter...The people that he votes for want those programs to be "Crowded Out" or "Wither on the Vine":wtf:

I simply don't get it.

[ret5hd]

1. Could it be...

that in his formative years, some repugs were considerably more liberal than some od our dem friends are now? after all, didnt nixon propose some kind of universal healthcare.

And now, he's more of a repug out of habit than ideology?

[JanMichael]

7. It didn't seem that way after an hour with him.

He's a Bushie too, most of the old Rockefeller Republicans that are still kicking aren't AFAIK.

[Westegg]

2. I get what you're saying

I understand your dilemma. But the first thing I would say about a man like this is: He deserves compassion, whatever his convictions may be. Sounds like he's in a pretty bad situation. I've noticed that many elderly people aren't exactly up to speed on what the government (be it the Bush Admin. or any other) is doing these days. Perhaps he'd benefit from learning what the Repubs really intend for needy people such as him. He just may not understand the harsh reality of his situation. Anyway, what in hell is his Christian Coalition big-wig brother doing to help him? Sounds like not much!

[JanMichael]

5. I treat all people that come in with compassion.

Regardless of their obviously bad politics.

I think this one was plenty "Up to speed" too. Very wily in his probing of political leanings and issues.

[Westegg]

10. Okey-dokey

Okay then. Well, to paraphrase Courtney Love: He's made his bed, he'll die in it.

[tom_paine]

3. Lack of infromation and cognitive dissonance

Too much 700 Club and other Bushevik (Goebbels v2.0) Propaganda can do this to a person.

Apparently, it is very easy for people to be made to act against their own interests, even if they are their OWN direct interests.

Straight up intelligence has nothing to do with it, intelligent people can be fooled nearly as easily as unintelligent people.

The operative traits necessary to resist such time-honored propaganda assaults are skepticism and raised consciousness.

[Mairead]

4. Agreed. Especially on the raised consciousness

Too many people have never spend even 20 seconds thinking about the origin of such things as social security or the 40-hour week. They seem to somehow take for granted that these benefits exist by operation of physical law, and that they can never go away. Goddess knows, it's D.U.M.B. dumb.

Raising people's consciousness is THE key.

[msmcghee]

6. From your post . .

. . it seems that you work for some governmental or perhaps charitable organization. If it's governmental - I'd wonder if he may suspect that anyone associated with the government must also support Bush* and our role in Iraq. Hence his - taking you into his confidence - to assure you that he was on your side, so to speak.

But, to your real question . .

It's been my experience that those on the right have no problem taking full advantage of governmental programs and largesse. The whole military/industrial complex is financed that way. In fact most of them think they deserve it - while all the others are freeloaders. Some freeper posts I've read say that taking advantage of those programs - especially if you don't deserve it - is good because it reduces their ability to serve the people who do need it. i.e less money for the wellfare cheats and black unwed mothers with crack babies.

OTOH - I've known ex-cons (non-violent criminals) who were poor but very generous with the little they had.

[JanMichael]

9. Perhaps.

But I'm a planner and I thought we were mostly seen as Authoritorian Socialists:shrug:

I don't think this guy prescribes to: "is good because it reduces their ability to serve the people who do need it. i.e less money for the wellfare cheats and black unwed mothers with crack babies."

He wasn't, I think, a racist. He spoke quite eloquently on the problems that Black women face in some circumstances. Seemed to have a certain amount of sympathy to the poverty stricken.

[msmcghee]

11. Maybe it just shows . .

. . how effective the right has been getting people to vote agaisnt their interests.

[loyalsister]

8. Similar experience

I had a conversation with a woman in a wheelchair who relies on such programs. She said that she thinks that "things were better when we started the school day with the pledge of allegiance and a prayer." ugh! THIS leads her to vote against her self interests!

[leftofthedial]

12. 80% of their loyal constituency

consistently vote against their own self interest


and loudly and smugly defend the practice.

It is such a level of ingrained ignorance that I find it hard to believe. yet there it is.

[Kanary]

13. There's another side to the story...

... one which I've been trying to speak to on here, with not much success.

You say that people vote against their best interests, and yet I would suggest to you that, since those interests are not being spoken to politically, it's rather difficult to even think that those interests are of much consideration.

I know that there are many here who are dyed-in-the-wool Clinton fans, but I must remind you that MANY cuts took place during the Clinton administration. It can no longer be taken for granted that the Dems "do the right thing".

I have also brought up that most of the current Dem candidates don't mention these issues in their position papers. From the debates I've watched, it doesn't come up then, either. For those of us who are vulnerable to the next round of cuts, this certainly doesn't give us any sense of safety, or the sense that our vote would matter all that much.

Lastly, not too long ago, another person started a thread about these issues, and there was very little interest. My posts have not received much interest.

So, I'm afraid that those of us on the bottom have come to feel pretty much abandoned, and ....... well, yes, a sense of what's the use.

I will also tell you that I'm speaking frankly here, and it's not a comfortable feeling. I'm dealing with enough garbage in my life and seeing all the flaming that goes on without a thought doesn't make it very pleasant for me to even consider actually telling it like it is. So, I probably won't even check back to see if there are any responses to this.... I'm guessing it's either brushed off and ignored, or there are criticisms and flames.

I would suggest that, just as the Dems did many years ago and actually had to listen to minority groups speak on what was important to them, the time has come (and gone) for the Dems to actually LISTEN to what poor, sick, disabled and otherwise disenfranchised people have to say.

Kanary

[JanMichael]

14. Once the Dems give up being the Progressives...

...about all that's left is a decaying Social Contract, guns, and abortion.

"You say that people vote against their best interests, and yet I would suggest to you that, since those interests are not being spoken to politically, it's rather difficult to even think that those interests are of much consideration."

I can't say that I disagree with you on that.

[JanMichael]

15. A kick just to show what we're dealing with.

:kick:

I don't know how to answer this other than a Media blitz which we can't afford.

These old coots vote BTW.

[laura888]

18. Agreed. The media blitz is much to blame...

...when you're so concerned about your own little life and your own little issues, you have less time to think about the big picture and more likely to turn to the quick-relax method of turning on the TV.

This is our biggest problem by far.

[Cleita]

16. When I lived in Idaho I spent hours beating my head

against a brick wall talking women's issues to women. For some reason or the other they were convinced that they weren't worth as much as the men in hourly wages because the work they did wasn't as important as the men's work. They would never dream questioning their husbands decisions on matters that truly impacted the welfare of them and their children because "he's the head of the family and he knows best." I could rant on, but I guess you get what I mean. I don't think anything has changed with those women either because every other woman in that state thought the same way so it ended up being a kind of negative reenforcement by their peers.

[JanMichael]

17. But this was a retired DOCTOR!!!!????

Could it be he's just an elderly, White, Social Services sucking anomoly?!

[Cleita]

20. No, also in Idaho, I met many elderly dittoheads who

worshipped Rush and voted Republican but only had their Social Security and Medicare between themselves and the graveyard. Go figure.

[MissMarple]

21. Good point. His formative years were during the Depression and

the Roosevelt presidency. My step father, a physician, grew up at the same time, he was a liberal and a Roosevelt Democrat as was his father, who was also a physician. This guy must have come from some backward place. And why isn't his family taking care of him? Isn't that part of the "compassionate conservative" ethos?

This is a really thoughtful thread. It is almost like a safe haven.

[JanMichael]

23. He told me that his parents lived in poverty.

Yet "Only in America" was he able to get 3 degrees and become a Doctor. Needless to say I didn't point out how that happens in many other places than America...I can only guess that his parents, immigrants, were Progressives:shrug:

It was a complete and total disconnect.

I think it's the "Born Again" virus...

[MissMarple]

24. "Born Again" virus. LOL

Thank goodness some of us were immune at birth.

:D The other side of my family still mutters around about "church people".

[Lars39]

19. I've wondered if there is a perception of prestige going on.

Kinda ties in with the middle class thinking they are some of the top earners, or are going to be, and the Democratic party represents the working class, and the repubs represent the rich. Whatever it is, it's delusional.

[Cleita]

22. It is, but I think you have a valid point because I

believe this was the premise that my parents proudly announced that they were Republicans to anyone who asked. They always tried to appear to be middle class even though my father, an electrician, was certainly blue collar.