What has gone right? Why are Candians more tolerant than Americans?

[_Jumper_]

They are probably the most tolerant when it comes to race and ethnicity, and are at or certainly near the top in tolerance for homosexuals, religious minorities, and women. America and Canada are similar countries. What has caused Canada to become a paragon of tolerance?

[HEyHEY]

1. I wouldn't say we're a paragon

Plenty of racism here...people are just more polite about it. Well, I'm no expert and I don't even know how this could be explained. But I'd say it has to do with electing lefty parties that brought in that kind of public tolerance.

[billbuckhead]

5. Canadians have always been skeptical of USA religious fanaticism

That's what I've heard.

[_Jumper_]

6. Canda isn't perfect

But it is closer to the ideal of tolerance than any other nation on Earth.

In Canada 87% of people support interracial marriage; in America barely 60% do. In Canada 53$ support gay marriage; in America only 44% support civil unions for homosexuals. The support for gay marriage here is probably around one-third. There is a significant gap IMO, in favor of Canada.

[glarius]

7. As usual....you're wrong....there's SOME racism..not plenty racism....

You never miss a chance to knock us do you?.....

[HEyHEY]

19. oh so that's your problem

You never miss a chance to lie about us.

"Canada is a nice safe little cozy country" Bullshit, anyone with real balls would admit that racism is rampant here. If you don't believe you don't get out enough to hear people in Vancouver talk about all the "Fucking Chinks" ANd "Goddamn Hindus" around. I am privy to at least one racist comment a day. Maybe in your circle it's different...maybe you only know educated people who aren't racist...good I'm glad for that you're lucky..as for me, I came and live in a blue collar area of town where racism is thriving.

WHY DON'T YOU ASK SOME NATIVES WHAT THEY THINK!

EDIT: I'll give you that we have little state sponsored racism though.

[glarius]

20. Of course there's some racism here....there's racism EVERYWHERE

But it's not RAMPANT as you put it. .But there's less of it here....People from other countries say so....You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Canada, for some reason....Maturity will cure that!!

[HEyHEY]

22. not so much a chip

I just don't think Canada is this cozy little place that the world precieves it as. Yeah it's a great place, but there are MANY problems here that are swept under the carpet on the national scene as we smile about it. I don't like us being portrayed as something we aren't. Granted again, this is a left leaning nation. But that doesn't mean we are some kind of paradise. And when I see people going on about how amazing and tolerant it is here I think they're mislead.

[Some Moran]

23. And not everyone on the "left" is tolerant...

Quebec separatists can be pretty nasty to Jews and Anglophones.

[HEyHEY]

24. That's the point I'm trying to make thanks!

Look at BC for instance. NDP for years.....tolerant...not so much.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

28. 'Big Business and the Ethnic Vote', Right?

[HEyHEY]

31. I actually experienced racism as an anglo in Quebec

SOmetimes you would be served last places once they found out you were english.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

37. Yeah. I'd be a lot more sympathetic if so many of them weren't

so obviously racist. We're all colonists in Canada. Some people came over from Vietnam last week, some from Scotland 200 years ago, others from France in the 1600's, some over the land bridge from Siberia thousands of years ago. It doesn't give any one group more right to the land than any others.

[HEyHEY]

40. Interesting story

My roomate while I was there (I went to Universite Du Quebec french immersion)was in the kitchen with me the dorms there were actually apartment where you had four roomys...our new roomy was getting out his van being dropped of by his parents....he was black. My roomate says to me "fuck not a black man"

I was put off, I was excited because more than likely a black person in Quebec is from Africa and I thought it be cool to live with someone from such a different part of the world.

By the end of the semester the two were best friends and they still keep in touch.

I visited my friend (the racist one) a year or so later and he admitted that when he first met me he was mad because he would have to live with an englsih person. He said soon he realiazed the African and I were pretty cool.

Then he went on to talk about how he realized that he had been brainwashed into hating and fearing all non-quebecors by th PQ. ANd he then relaized he had never even been to other parts of Canada and had no idea what they were like. He is now a stuanch federalist and I haven't heard him utter a racist word since.

It's kinda nice to know that by just showing up my African friend and I changed this gys perception of the world.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

41. Good Story. Experience beats Prejudice.

[Some Moran]

44. Interesting...

A friend of mine if half-Black and half-Arab.

When she attended elementary school in Montreal, another Black girl called her a nigger (in an insulting sense) because her family was Anglophone and federalist.

[_Jumper_]

43. It is a paradise compared to America

And America is one of the most tolerant nations on Earth.

[dutchdemocrat]

49. You have to get out more

You have to get out more

And live in other countries and see what intolerance really is. Europeans are on a roll right now, with thousands of illegals held in camps, waiting to be processed.

Look at Australian policy... they are disgusting with their gulags in the desert for undesirables that 'need' to be shipped back.

The bottom line is, and I spent much of my youth growing up in Vancouver in a Sikh neighbourhood, over a quarter of the population was not even born in the country - meaning one out of every four people you meet are 'bloody foreigners'.

Sure words like 'chink' and 'paki' are tossed around with impunity by some. Blue collar WASP Canadians bitch about 'frogs' and dumb 'newfies' as well. That is not indicative of the nation overall and perhaps you are surrounding yourself by the wrong people if you hear it once a day.

Canada is tolerant, progressive and cozy compared to most of the rest of the world - I know, I have been living in the rest of the world for most of my adult life. I recently went back after being away for eight years and found the city amazing and was pleased to see how well all my family and friends were doing, and the way they lived. My family is mixed Native, Inuit, Dutch, Irish, and English and my sister married a Japanese guy and feel no stigma at all in public as a mixed race couple.

If I had a brother and he was gay, he can marry his partner, if my cousin smokes pot, he need not worry about doing hard time for smoking a plant, if my uncle was a junkie he can get a free clean needle in town and if my mother was a prostitute, she has more support with newly formed groups (almost unions) and more tolerance from the police.

Don't drag Canada down unfairly. You have the right to your opinion as do I.

Canada needs the Democratic party to take the reins back in 2004 so we can retain our left, rather than follow another four years of de-socialization and polarization in the US, which will trickle up to Canada.

Maybe we can't vote in America - but we can certainly help our fellow North Americans take the continent and the world in a more positive direction, by partaking in discussion on this board and fighting the Republicans in our own way.

I don't like Canadians being smug about Canada on this board any more than you do. This 'we are better than you' stuff has been floated by a few Canucks, but don't let them get to you.

Many Democrats look at their quiet little brother to the North as somewhat of a model of how America can be. There is nothing wrong with that and by posting Canadian articles and internal/external analyses by Canada's media and leading thinkers, I think we demystify our country, rather than blatantly self promote it.

Peace.

[glarius]

54. I think you have stated it very well

I think the Americans who run this forum and all those who post on it are amazingly generous and openminded....They love their country, but want the social policies that we in Canada and other countries take for granted, and they welcome our input into their discussions without resentment....I sometimes think I am intruding into their business, and have worried about sounding smug, but they are always welcoming...I live close to the U.S.A border and we have a wonderful cross-border relationship that even George Bush has not harmed....
Of course there is prejudice in Canada, as there is everywhere...but I have objected to HeyHey's postings because he has so often posted untruths about Canada...For instance someone asked "what is the CBC?" and his answer was "it's the state run broadcasting system." I and others posted at that time that of course it's not run by the government, but just funded...I don't have blinkers on and am aware of our shortcomings, but I have just been irritated by his so often negative descriptions of things up here, and wondered what his reason was for being so negative...I don't like bickering, but he seems to set me off...I'm older than he is so maybe he just needs a few years to open his eyes....:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

26. I don't know. There's a lot of subliminal racism

against Natives, French Canadians, Asians. Any country has that. We're no different.

[glarius]

But there is LESS of it here......that's the point....

Unless all the people from other countries who come here and say there's less racism are lying?????....Any racism is bad...I long for the day when all bigotry against races, religions, sexual preferences is gone....but we do have less, I believe...:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

38. I guess it depends where you live. Alberta has a fair few.

[Some Moran]

18. It's not perfect...

Some dumbfuck wouldn't let my friend on a cruise boat because he's Black. Everyone else on the boat (who was White) told the ticket agent off.

[komplex]

2. Demographics...

Canada is still dominated by the Cities, if you go to Western Canada they hate the things that US Liberals love about Canada.

In the United States, we are dominated by NASCAR Nation.

[glarius]

8. That's quite a generalization....

There are more right wingers in some parts of Alberta, but your statement is far from accurate....

[Screaming Lord Byron]

30. Fair Point. I'm a Calgarian, and there's a lot of people here

who can't stand the Federal Government and are as right-wing as any republican. They're pretty close to the majority in Southern Alberta. I'm a very small minority. I'm working on them. It's my life's work!

[HEyHEY]

36. SLB

You gotta lotta work ahead of you!

[MrSoundAndVision]

3. Free Media

It's that the media is free from capitalist constraints (free to air any view independent of financial concerns), and more that there media doesn't use fear as a selling strategy. Now, I'm completely serious, so give me your attention: have you seen Bowling for Columbine?

Well Canada has just as many guns that America has, yet they have virtually no violence. It's because their media doesn't spread fear in the population (fear of the black man, fear of the weather, fear of TERRORISM, etc.)

Their government is also quite progressive: universal healthcare and a very liberal immigration policy. They have a good government and it reflects in their people. Our government (and it's compliant media) rule by fear, thus they have a fearful (and hence reactionary) population. Oh...

Kucinich for President! It's time to take a step in the left direction, and a big one. http://www.kucinich.us PLEASE CLICK

And watch Bowling for Columbine to see a teenager completely sum up (at a casual guess) what's wrong with Americans, and why we kill each other, it's truly a great work of our time.

[dutchdemocrat]

53. Careful with the Free media angle

Canada's print media is more polarized than America's with the Asper's and Black running the show. The National Post is far from being 'Fair and Balanced' and their control over small weeklies is a little frightening.

To give you an example, my left wing, old hippie father reads the Globe and Mail now because Asper owns the Vancouver Sun and the Province and has turned them into right wing rags (at least that what he says).

Envisioning Pop sitting down with the Globe and Mail ten years ago was unthinkable.

[jonoboy]

4. it's probably the cities thing

I wonder the same as Canada is very similar to Australia..and there is a similar thing with the cities very dominant as opposed to the country.

[_Jumper_]

12. That plays a role

However, Canada is much more tolerant than Australia and New Zealand. So there has to be something else that makes it distinct from Australia/NZ, and the USA.

[Melsky]

9. I think it is a lot more tolerant than the US

My husband and I are thinking of moving there. He has a job offer in Toronto.

But there are some real freeper types there too. Check out this page I found while doing research:

http://www.canadafirst.net/

It's an anti immigration page, based on they do not want the European culture of Canada to be destroyed by a bunch of brown skinned people. Really sad. But somehow I felt better knowing the US doesn't have a monopoly on this kind of crap!

[_Jumper_]

14. I've seen that too

They are extremists that can be discounted. They are like the KKK here.

[Prodemsouth]

27. Compared to the KKK and the Christan Right in the USA these guys are

a bunch of sweet little old ladies- proves the point by offering this as showing intolerance in Canada. These guys would be considered mainstream here.

[sweetheart]

10. 4 reasons

Democracy becomes unstable and unsustainable over 100 million people... canada is less than 30 million. You'll find that all the worlds nations with the highest human rights and quality of life are smaller than 100 million... japan is a bit larger, and it is not doing so well. THe european nations are all smaller and they have a much higher standard of life than the US, as does canada.

There is enough space in canada for people to get away from each other... unlike los angeles extending for 100's of square miles without any free space. Overpopulation, lack of water supply and other natural resources creates human hatred, and war... just like it does in cages of rats.

Canada uses a parlimentary system inherited from britain that has proven far more stable at preserving human rights than the american constitutional system.

The american constitution was designed by slave owners to create a state that would sustain their slave-making lifestyle. The new slavery is the freedom to work an 70 hour week at 65 years of age to pay for your medical bills.. the new slavery... just modern slavery without whips and collars... but if you fall afoul of the slave state, you'll wind up exactly with a collar on being raped in a prison. The intent of the constitution was always to preserve slavery, just like that intent in athens long ago.... it is wrongly called democracy. plutocracy or timocracy are much more appropriate names for such a system of rule by elite powerbrokers who do not have to operate in a world of "one person one vote".. like rupert murdoch.

[Spazito]

11. I think there are a few key reasons for the difference...

One big one is that we are a much more secular society, religion is there but not to the extent it is prevalent in the US.

Another could be the curriculum in our education system is geared globally, giving us a sense of the world and our part in it, we are a small country and need others to make it all work.

I would agree with HeyHey though, we are not a paragon of tolerance, we do have racism, intolerance but it is very much a minority. Our treatment of our First Nations is our shame, imo, and much is to be done there before we can hold our heads up.

[glarius]

25. We do have racism...it's EVERYWHERE in the world....but the thing that

bugs me about HeyHey is that he says it's rampant...It's not... WHENEVER he posts anything about this country, he always manages to paint it in a bad light, and I wonder what his game is??....I think the First Nations people need help too....It seems to be getting somewhat better with the land claims they've settled recently though...but there's still lots to do...

[HEyHEY]

29. Bad light...maybe you haven't seen my countless posts

about things I love about Canada and things I am proud of. ANd I think rampant is a good word as it means there is a REAL widespread problem in this country...as for my game. ??

[Screaming Lord Byron]

32. America was founded by a Revolution, Canada by consensus.

One is not necessarily better than the other, but our respective cultures are coloured by our founding myths - Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness vs Peace, Order and Good Government.

[Some Moran]

33. That's just funny...

I find it far easier to pursue happiness knowing that I don't have to have some Nazi shoving a gun down my throat just because I like pot.

[HEyHEY]

35. Yeah

And then chucking you in prison cause you had a seed on you.

[camero]

48. Wasn't there that little thing

called the French and Indian War? It was also your last one, I think.

[ShaneGR]

13. Me vs. all of us.......

It really is that simple. Canadians tend to view their politics as the betterment of their entire nation, not just as what will most benefit the single individual, or I.

[_Jumper_]

15. Why?

We need to import that outlook.

[Holly]

16. The secrets in the left

I've been asking myself this very question tonight, after watching the coverage of the liberal leadership convention. Our history of commitment to social programs, universal healthcare and our pension plan are really the foundation of our society. I agree that electing left leaning governments has allowed this tolerance to develop in our country.

[laura888]

17. this is a very good post because Canada illustrates what happens...

...when a country does the things freepers are so dead-set against.

Is Canada really a bad place to live with universal health care?

[stevedeshazer]

21. A look at this page speaks volumes

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/look/look-00e.html

Some snippets:

What Does Canadian Citizenship Mean?

Canadian values include freedom, respect for cultural differences and a commitment to social justice. We are proud of the fact that we are a peaceful nation. In fact, Canadians act as peacekeepers in many countries around the world.

Canada is a large country with a small population. We have developed a unique federal style of government that is based on compromise and co-existence. We value our democracy, and every citizen is encouraged to do his or her share. Our laws are based on our democratic values. Canadian values include:

Equality--We respect everyone's rights. Everyone has the right to speak out and express ideas that others might disagree with. Governments must treat everyone with equal dignity and respect--two other fundamental Canadian values.

Respect for cultural differences--We try to understand and appreciate the cultures, customs and traditions of all Canadians, whether they were born in Canada or came here from another country.

Freedom--As Canadians, we enjoy basic freedoms, such as freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of peaceful assembly.

Peace--We are proud of our non-violent society and our international role as peacekeepers.

Law and order--We respect democratic decision making and the "rule of law." We promote due process so that the courts and the police treat everyone fairly and reasonably. We ensure that our elected governments remain accountable to Canadians.

<and>

Economic growth is crucial for the future prosperity of Canada, but growth must be managed carefully so that it does not harm the environment. The Canadian government is committed to the goal of sustainable development, which means economic growth that is environmentally sound.

A healthy environment is important to quality of life. All citizens should act in a responsible manner toward the environment so that our children have the opportunity to live in a country that is clean and prosperous.

All Canadian citizens have a responsibility to contribute to the social, economic and environmental well-being of our country. Both individual and collective action will help achieve progress toward the goal of sustainable development.

It takes time to learn about the environment and how to protect it. However, if we don't pay attention to environmental issues, our environment will suffer.

<and>

All Canadians have certain rights and responsibilities. They are based on Canadian laws, traditions and shared values.

Many of these rights are defined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is part of Canada's Constitution. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms legally protects the basic rights and freedoms of all Canadians. Some of these rights and freedoms are democratic rights, such as the right to vote; legal rights, such as the right to a fair trial; equality rights, such as the right to protection against discrimination; mobility rights, such as the right to live and work anywhere in Canada; Aboriginal peoples' rights; and basic freedoms, such as freedom of thought, speech, religion and peaceful assembly.
_______________________________________________________

It's really a different value system based on fairness versus the US model.

[Silverhair]

34. They aren't that similar.

Canada is only populated for a narrow stip in the south. Go over 300 miles north of the border and the population thins out real fast. (Yes, I have been to Canada several times. Alberta, Ontario, & Quebec provinces.) The similar climate forces a similarity of life upon Canadians. They never had slavery, or the great North-South divide that we did and still have. Our divide is greatly due to differences in climate. Before air conditioning, the south simply could not industrialize. You can heat a factory in the winter so the north got the industry and the south stayed agricultural, with a slave based agriculture system. Canada has been spared the great division caused by a great civil war.

Canada is more European than we are. They were part of the British Empire until the 20th Century, and Quebec is still heavily influenced by whatever is happening in France.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

39. Check this post out for a Canadian as crazy as any Republican

Rob Anders MP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=706645

[glarius]

42. That moron, Rob Anders is the same guy that refused to agree to Mandela

being granted honorary Canadian citizenship....He was the only member of parliament who voted against it....I'm surprised there weren't more from his party, the Alliance.

[ironflange]

46. Rob Anders is nothing but a nasty little shitstain

whom I am ashamed to share a planet with. Same goes for Ezra Levant and David Frum, among many others.

[dutchdemocrat]

52. Speaking of David Frum

I hate that guy. I wonder if his wonderful mum, Barbara, rolls in her grave whenever he writes more right wing tripe. He's a Canadian neo-con puppet all the way, and plays with the PNAC crowd. Humiliating considering where his roots lie. He reminds me of Dennis Miller who also follows the money.

RIP Barbara Frum.

David, I hope you choke on a fucking pretzel.

[sneakiepete]

45. never mind

g

[camero]

47. The fact that you guys are our neighbor

And you can see some of the crazy things we do. Also, being a constitutional monarchy doesn't hurt either.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Seems like it's not just Canadians...

New Zealanders and perhaps Australians, too. Perhaps it's something to do with the greater British influence, and a parliamentary system of government based on proportional representation instead of our flawed winner-take-all system...not to mention that the British probably gained somewhat more tolerance overall than America, through contact with various peoples through their Empire, while America was isolated by two oceans from most of the rest of the world.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that America would probably be a better place today had the Revolution NOT happened...a monority opinion, probably, but one I'm ready to defend on a number of grounds...

[_Jumper_]

55. America is arguably less racist and xenophobic than NZ and Australia

Although on sexism, religion, and homophobia we lag well behind.

[dutchdemocrat]

51. Religion is a huge factor which has not been mentioned

The majority of Canadians are simply not religious. Therefore we don't have a very strong 'Religious Right' such as what is fueling Bushco with it's extremely powerful lobbyists in DC.

The power of the 'Jesus' industry in America is, frankly, pretty frightening for people looking in from the outside.

Dr. Gene Scott is a perfect example of what the machine does and can do. I actually respect him because at least he is honest when he screams, "Get on the PHONE and GIVE", followed by 15 minutes of bragging about his vast wine collection, his penchant for the finest in Cuban Cigars, and his million dollar horse collection for his 'cradle' wife that can't sing.

And the Right Wing Christian anti-Federalist Milia types are not far from Al Qaeda IMHO.

Herein lies the root of much of the problem.