Clark supporters be strong!

[Kosmos Mariner]

There has been a lot of unnecessary piling on Gen. Clark the last few days by Dean supporters. They THINK that they smell blood in the water, so they are trying to tear him down. The ironic thing is that most lust after Clark to be VP. This is exactly the kind of behavior we don't need in this party. You like Dean, cool, back him, campaign for him, vote for him in the primary, respectfully disagree with other candidates, but have some class. We have to be a strong party if we are going to beat the Shrub. I personally believe the man for the job is Wesley Clark. He has very progressive ideas, yet appeals to a very diverse audience. So if you like Clark because you like his ideas and where he will lead the country, please stand up and proudly support him. Donate, campaign, get a bumper sticker, talk to a friend, post on DU, and NEVER give up. This nomination process is just starting. Jump on the bandwagon now, while there is still room! :grouphug:


:dem:

Floridians for Clark!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeter]

2. I am a huge Dean supporter

And have never attacked Clark. The most negative thing I have said was not about him as much as it was about his supporters who hold on to this dumb idea that Dean can't win.

I call that argument stupid whenever it is brought up. And I think that it is doing Clark more damage than it is good. Because with polls showing the two doing about the same - it takes away their only argument.

[caledesi]

8. Hear Hear! nt

[Kosmos Mariner]

14. I am glad you are happy with Dean

I agree that the idea that Dean can't win is dumb. But I don't think that is why a lot of Clark supporters like him so much.


:dem:

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Rowdyboy]

3. I'm a long-time Clark supporter but I haven't seen what you have.

DU Dean supporters, by and large, have been very open to Clark-many of them are highly complimentary. The few (1/2 dozen or so) Dean supporters who hate Clark are statistically insignificant.

Most Dean backers seem to understand that both our candidates are from outside the mainstream and represent fundamental change. Don't condemn the majority of Dean supporters for the rudeness of a few. We have quite enough of those on our side.

[pruner]

4. thanks for the support Rowdy…

in addition to the "outsider" thing, I also think a lot of Clark & Dean supporters would look very favorably upon a combined ticket (Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean).

:)

[jeter]

6. I think our two sides should work together

I desperately want a Dean/Clark ticket. I think it works the best. They complement each other so well.

[Skwmom]

19. I think you are also a VERY strong Dean supporter.

Maybe that is why you don't see what the original poster sees.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

61. Your numbers are just about right

for all of the candidate's supporters here. Remove 6 likely posters from any of the camps and the negative threads seem to disappear. (This proposition is easily proven by using the ignore function) The vast majority here don't hate any of the candidates, just the tactics employed by a few.

[VermontDem2004]

5. Yes be strong Clark Supporters! Evil Deanies will try to bring you down

Come on, have you not noticed the unecessary piling on Dean by both Clark, Kerry, and a few Kucinich supporters?

On edit: GO BULLS!!!!! but they are going to lose to the

[Kosmos Mariner]

16. UAB!

Oh come on...no way they are losing to the Blazers. USF has struggled a little this year, but they aren't that bad :-)


:dem:

[Clark Can WIN]

7. It's the eye of the hurricanne baby

You bet I'm there.

[pruner]

10. what are your thought's on Clark's election prospects?

;)

:hi:

[Clark Can WIN]

33. My thoughts

nomination................ so many conflicting feelings. Today I would give Clark 47% to Deans 53% for the nom.

If Clarks ads are effective and his message truly does get out? That could nudge the numbers just enough.

There are so very many still in the undecided catagory.......... why is that? I wish I knew. I'm sure all of the candidates do too.

You asked about election prospects.......

Clark is the only candidate with the solid brass ballz and the credibility to bring in a decisive victory.

If he can get the damn nomination............. there will be no shrub big enough to stand against him. That's what I think.

ttyl :-)

[robsul82]

9. Nice one...

...there's only been like five threads that amounted to a Mutual Admiration Society (not that that's a bad thing, just saying). Brilliant.

Later.

RJS

[pruner]

11. DU needs a "circle jerk" emoticon

I feel like I'm about to explode…

:bounce:

[VermontDem2004]

15. Try one of these

[ComerPerro]

67. Those are very cool

Nice work

[incapsulated]

13. Any current "bashing"..

is nothing compared with the barrage when he announced he was running.

Remember the "Clark is a PNAC plant, war criminal and baby eater with secret plans to put us all in re-education camps!" threads? Now, those where tiresome, hehe. ;)

[robsul82]

17. Now, now...

...I NEVER accused Clark of having secret plans. That other stuff, well. I certainly HEARD there were interesting photographic evidence of the baby-eating in question.

Later.

RJS

[Kosmos Mariner]

21. the tone has changed...

Yes I agree it's not as noisy. I just think that there are individuals who have a deep, irrational fear of all things military. Automatically it was assumed he was a Nazi loving repug. I am a very peaceful person, I am very much against the unjust Iraqi invasion, but I still believe in the need for a strong military. A strong military, run by great leaders like Clark. War is the last thing we should want, but sometimes it is the only option.


It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war.

John F. Kennedy


:dem:

[Bread and Circus]

22. Yeah, I remember fighting that tooth and nail...

ahem....I guess that's why I am cynical.

[Pastiche423]

18. I do not smell blood in the water

I smell the blood on clark's hands.

And I certainly do not lust after him to be vp. I want him as far away from my candidate as possible.

Progressive ideas? All talk! He doesn't even have a clue as to how to do the Democratic walk.

For months now, I have been letting the people in the two counties, where I am an activist, know clark's history. We have a liberal bastion here on the southern coast. Many of us protested the Iraq invasion every Saturday between October '02 and March '03.

These same people protested the 1st Gulf War and the Kosovo slaughter. We want peace. We do not want a war criminal to be our president.

I've jumped on the bandwagon that I believe will make it all of the way to the White House.

Dean's bandwagon.

[Bread and Circus]

23. Why have you been sniffing Clark's hands?

Oh yeah, did you forget that Dean supported Clark's
efforts in Kosovo?

Does that mean Dean has blood on his hands too?

In case you forgot, the biggest opponents of the Kosovo
War were Republicans like Lott and DeLay.

[Pastiche423]

25. Dean din't kill

innocent men, women and children. Nor did Dean drop depleted uranium and cluster bombs, poisoning the land and waters for eons.

Moreover, Dean did not bomb schools, churches, hospitals and JOURNALISTS.

No, that blood is on clark's hands. And it will be that blood that RWers will smear everywhere.

I'm backing a clean guy, not a bloody one.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pastiche423]

28. Yes, I believe that clark

is a war criminal. Facts back up that belief. I am, by far, not alone.

[Kosmos Mariner]

29. Incredible....

I have a question for you. Is any leader in war a criminal?


:dem:

[Pastiche423]

36. I don't exactly understand your question

If you are asking if there have been leaders in a war that have been criminals, I would have to say, probably.

If you are asking if all leaders in a war are criminals, I would say, no.

[Kosmos Mariner]

46. you answered my question...

#2... OK so you are not completely crazy. j/k :evilgrin:


:dem:

[DemExpat]

49. Please give examples of leaders of powers during war

who are not war criminals in your eyes.....

'Even' Dean will have innocent blood on his hands if he becomes President - can you not see this, Pastiche?

DemEx

[Speed8098]

52. "I am, by far, not alone."

By far???


Have you LOOKED at the number of Greens there are in government??


Your inflammatory remarks about Clark are not necessary and I take offense.

It is one thing to dislike a candidate, but to call Wes Clark a war criminal is wrong.

Dean is NOT going to beat *.

I sincerely hope our Democratic base will see that this guy hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of winning the WH.
Clark/Edwards will be the winning ticket.

[Bread and Circus]

53. Well, you are wrong...Imagine that.

[jonnyblitz]

20. I think you are hallucinating. Dean has been getting dissed

particularly about the Confederate flag thing. I have only seen Dean supporters on the defense going after Clark after CLarkies have done their thing on Dean first.

[Rowdyboy]

24. Maybe I deliberately missed

but I hjaven't seen the antagonism.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Dean was provided with cover from many in the Corporate media

in reference to his CF stance. The discussions mostly centered around how what he was talking about needed to be talked about, yadayadayadayada.

So when articles like these are coming up:
http://12.38.102.164/archives/ic/2003/11/14/101204.shtml
from NewsMax dissing Clark and praising Dean....

Progressives start to wonder.....What's up with that????http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/11/14/democrats/index1.html

Is Dean too Hot?

[farmboxer]

26. Clark Can Win!

Clark can beat a damned deserter!

[FrenchieCat]

30. Clark will win...He's the heavyweight in the race.....

Sunday - Meet the Press - Eagle fundraiser afterward with Mailer

Wednesday - 60 minutes II

Thursday - The Letterman Show

Those who attend the debate will miss Clark...they will be sorely disappointed when he isn't there. So, next time they see him, they will be paying close attention.

His strategy is just different from the rest.....and that will end up making a difference.

A Diamond is valuable, because it is rare.

It's better for our diamond to be in an absolute georgous setting all on he's own. Needs not other Gems around it; especially the common easy to find ones-
http://www.timesanddemocrat.com/articles/2003/11/13/opinion/opinion1.txt
Issues, expertise make Clark real contender

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark may not be a typical politician but he knows how to score political points. The Democratic presidential candidate -- who is a retired four-star Army general, former NATO supreme allied commander and former commander-in-chief of the U.S. European Command -- chose Orangeburg as a forum this past week to lash out at President Bush's policies in Iraq.
-------------
The retired general said the United States lacks a clear post-war plan. He proposed "a strategy that will make it possible for our soldiers to come home with both Iraq and America standing strong ... to leave Iraq but not to abandon it."

Specifically, Clark called for turning the military operation over to NATO, opening up the rebuilding effort to other nations and allowing Iraqis to select their own representatives who will build a new Iraqi national government. "Consent of the governed" is "the essence of democracy."
----------
Iraq and the War on Terrorism are subjects about which Clark will continue to have the national ear. His assessments carry weight beyond those of his political opponents. If Iraq remains a primary campaign issue -- and there is every reason to believe it will -- the general could become a serious contender to unseat the incumbent.

[Eloriel]

37. EAGLE fundraiser with MAILER?

Would that be Norman Mailer?

Wouldn't that just be the icing on the cake?

Good grief.

Eloriel

[FrenchieCat]

44. That's your comment there????

Icing on cake is good, Non?

[moz4prez]

50. Norman Lear

not Norman Mailer :(

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark Can WIN]

34. Good job welcoming the new Duers!

Because we are a progressive and inclusive group, right?

Knob.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kosmos Mariner]

39. I've lurked here a long time....

I have always enjoyed reading everyone's insights here, and recently I decided to jump in and become part of the debate. So don't tell me I have no perspective. I try not to attach the negativity that SOME Dean supports spew to the candidate himself, but some of you make it difficult. Some people have been trying to manufacture weakness in the Clark candidacy since he announced.


:dem:

[ibegurpard]

43. Well, then, you should know that Clark has been getting a LOT less

flak lately than at first. So I question again why you are trying to stir up controversy about this?

[Kosmos Mariner]

47. less yes...

less yes, and with a different tactic... less over the top crazy accusations and lies, now constant harping that he doesn't have it together, no organization, stupid campaign decisions, can he lead, he can't raise the money, blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :puke:
Right out of Karl Rove's playbook. Demoralize your opponent, victory is impossible, resistance is futile... :puke:
Enjoy your candidate and I'll enjoy mine, and hopefully together we will all beat the Shrub this year. This year we can not lose.



:dem:

[Kahuna]

35. Two polls this week have Clark within 3 pts of Dean...

The Gallup poll has Dean 9 pts. behind bush, with Clark 3 pts. behind. What this tells me is that Clark does have the crossover appeal to pick up some Republican votes. It also tells me that Dean does not have anywhere as near the crossover appeal as Clark. This poll tells me that Dean is somewhat stronger with Democrats but not strong enough to get the prize.

This is the news we have to get out. Clark really has to do it for himself. The media will not help him. If Clark doesn't toot his own poll numbers he's toast. The majority of Democrats really do want the candidate who can beat bush. But if you listen to the pundits they think that candidate is Dean! :eyes:

[Eloriel]

40. It's still terribly early to be depending on National polls

to tell you ANYthing.

They're still measuring mostly name recognition. Hell, we're not beyond the point when most people can't even independently NAME any of the Dem candidates.

Eloriel

[deacon]

38. Clark is a good man, but i think he has realized he jumped in the race too

late. dean outhustled the others as clinton did in '91. i believe clark is running for vp at this time. and, he is there should dean stumble, to pick up the baton and try to beat bush. he is being very smart. following this course he can still end up being part of the election, and win as either prez or vp. he is a general you know. an excellent planner, that wants to win.

[FrenchieCat]

42. Think again.....

Don't underestimate the candidates in mid November.....that could be a fatal mistake.

[mmonk]

45. Quiet determination

After reading his books, watching him examine and work on the issues, etc. and knowing that if he can get the nomination, he is the best chance at bringing the presidency back to the Democratic party, I'll keep working with determination. Not all my frends are political, just average people going about their lives and these people that I've gotten to notice him are impressed. That will keep me going through the ups and downs during this campaign.

[DemExpat]

48. Unless he does something really stupid, I'm steadfast Clark!

:kick:
DemEx

[Donna Zen]

55. Checking in

What will happen will happen. But Clark wants to win this, so I'm standing tall.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bread and Circus]

54. While other dems needle Clark whenever they can... Clark

camp releases this:

"Statement from Clark Campaign Chairman Eli Segal on Public Financing Decision
"The Clark campaign has decided it is in our best interest to remain within the public financing system. Because we are starting so late and have yet to air any commercials anywhere, we are confident that there is plenty of room for us to be competitive in the early primary states while staying within the legally mandated spending caps.

"We are staying within the system, but we will not criticize our fellow Democrats for opting out. Let us be clear: It is George W. Bush who is running around the country raising hundreds of millions of dollars for a nonexistent primary, when he should be running the war in Iraq. It is George W. Bush who wrecked the public financing system, not the Democrats."

clark04.com

[democratreformed]

57. Yet another reason

for being extremely proud of our candidat.

[MoonRiver]

56. Yes, I simply don't understand this Dean mania. I'm a Clarkie, but

Dean is also a great candidate, whom I will happily embrace if he wins. I believe most other Clark supporters feel the same. The childishness I see on the Dean side just hurts their candidate, at least among activists. It certainly does not attract any more "troops" to them, if that's what they're shooting for. Hopefully we'll all rally round whoever gets the nomination, and can forget all about this nonsense.

[JNelson6563]

65. then you've missed a great deal of

childish behavior from some Clarkies, some who are posting on this thread.

Julie

[MoonRiver]

70. It definitely has not been from me, and the degree isn't nearly as much

as from the Deaniacs. Nice having such blind adoration, but don't you get it that this devisiveness is playing right into Rove's hands? :crazy:

[MGKrebs]

58. Statements like this:

"There has been a lot of unnecessary piling on Gen. Clark the last few days by Dean supporters. " serve no productive purpose, are too general to be meaningful, and only create and/or sustain a stereotype.

Look at the polls that are done here from time to time. There are usually 60-80 members who consistently support Dean. I'm not keeping a scorecard, but I think you will find that there are probably only 6 -10 members who attack Clark. There are probably 10% of Clark supporters who attack other candidates. The point is , there are many Dean supporters who either don't take the bait to respond at all, or respond politely and thoughtfully.

I agree with your sentiment to support your candidate. But by throwing the above chum in the water, you invite the very responses you deplore.

I invite you to use the "ignore" feature. I suspect you will find you will only need to have a couple of names on your ignore list.

[democratreformed]

60. I have to agree

with you on this one. It would have been better to say that there has been alot of unnecessary piling on ob Gen. Clark by a few people who support various candidates. I personlly believe that several Dean supporters are, in fact, our allies as are some supporters of other candidates.

What this poster considers attacks are coming from several different fronts.

However, the message to be strong in the face of these things is a necessary and welcome one. Especially for those like myself who are new at this.

[retyred]

59. If I worried about the Dean supporters

unsubstantiated accusations and rumor mongering I would've climbed on the "walk on water tour bus" when first returning to DU just prior to Clark making his announcement to run....sorry but the guy and his supporters are a minor pain in the bunghole, nothing more, i've had roids before.

It's like sparring with the freepers and their "boy" except it's now within my own party. Right now I see nothing that even resembles a credible threat, it's early and the lead is a see/saw at this point so put another log on the fire, sit back and watch Dean self-combust.

Anger is not a mandate and that's all the man and his supporters have....that and the stolen quote of a real liberal.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[MGKrebs]

62. You know, perhaps you should send that suggestion

to the General. Sounds like a good strategy.

"...put another log on the fire, sit back and watch Dean self-combust."

Interesting mixed metaphor.

And if you happen to throw an extra log or two onto the "self" combusting fire, all the better, eh?

[HFishbine]

64. Didn't you just do

what you accuse the Dean supporters of doing? Couldn't your appeal have stood on it's own without the uneccessary and unfounded slam against Dean supporters?

[matcom]

66. this whole thread is flamebait

i alerted on it over an hour and a half ago but i guess the mods disagree

:shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

68. Locking

2. The subject line of a discussion thread and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include profanity, excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation. Inflammatory rhetoric should also be avoided.

This thread contains inflammatory rhetoric.

Thanks,
MrsGrumpy
DU Moderator

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. I'm strong

and not going anywhere. I'm ON the bandwagon and staying there. I just ordered a bunch of bumper stickers and I will do whatever I can to get this man's name known and get him moved into the house on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.. The WH fears THIS man! That's a positive in and of itself!

Anyone can give up; it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone would understand if you fell apart, that's TRUE STRENGTH. — Unknown

You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you must stop and look fear in the face. You must do the things you think you cannot do! - Eleanor Roosevelt

Go General Clark!

[chaska]

71. Thread in search of a topic?

Here's a thought I would like to present to the more thoughtful Dean folks. No bash, just something to ponder. I have no preconceived conclusions about this, only questions.

Clearly, there is, as someone mentioned above, an air of mania about the Dean candidacy. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it is the only reason that I feel confident that Dean could win. Based on positions, record, etc. I remain convinced that he will lose to Bush. Mania could be the thing to put him over the top.

But can he sustain it for another year? Dean is the equivalent of a rockstar right now. Rockstars come and go - and thank god, the thought of spending the rest of my life tolerating Britney Spears makes me ill. But as I was saying, Dean has an evangelical, charismatic quality to his candidacy that makes me worry about him going out of style.

There are a lot of people who are Deanies just because there are a lot of people who are Deanies. This is not a slam, there are people in all camps that are like that. This is not to denigrate his supporters at all. And as I implied earlier, this is one thing I find intriguing about his candidacy. Dean's maniacs could prove to be an extremely important element in ousting Bush.

I would suggest that thoughtful Deanites open their fellow supporters minds to the possibility of transfering that enthusiasm to other candidates should Dean not get the nom. We will need them to defeat the great Satan. Unity remains the single most important goal for Dems. We should never lose sight of the goal. Contention is, and will continue to be, an unavoidable fact of life. But never forget that Dems are your friend.

Perhaps some would volunteer to try to steer discussions in that direction. We can never hear the message too often. One for all, and when the time comes, all for one.