Dr. Howard Dean helps man having seizure.....

[slinkerwink]

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean (L) comes to the aid of a supporter who appeared to be having a seizure outside a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, November 15, 2003. The man began to have a seizure in front of a van carrying the media and then fell to the ground. Dean walked over from his van and rendered aid to the man. REUTERS/John Gress
Reuters - Nov 15 4:18 PM


Now that's the kind of man I want for President. He's also done this before in Iowa. He helped a couple that'd been in a slight car accident and made sure they were okay. I wish I had more of a news article on that, but so far, it hasn't come up on yahoo news.

[bahrbearian]

1. Is there a Doctor in the House ?

not yet but soon.

[slinkerwink]

13. hopefully it'll be soon.....

It'll be so nice having someone who knows how to heal people in the White House...

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

17. It would be great

Although I must admit that at this point I'd consider someone who can sharpen a pencil to be a big step up.

[efhmc]

20. That made me laugh. Very funny.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

21. Not as funny as the image of * struggling with one

I imagine him coming away from a pencil-and-sharpener encounter with cut and bleeding fingers and bruises about his face and neck in a manner reminiscent of his pretzel confrontation.

I wonder if there is a Secret Service directive to keep him away from sharp objects, or if the electrical outlets in the Oval Office are "babyproofed".

[efhmc]

45. OMG, think what might happen if he ran with scissors.

[Code_Name_D]

111. Quick! Every one mail some scissors to 700 Penn Avinue!

:silly:

[no_arbusto]

128. 700 Penn Ave?

What's your beef with the national archives man?
:shrug:

[Andromeda]

137. Or eat a pretzel without passing out...

:bounce:

[Scott Lee]

2. The Dr., at work!

But don't feel slighted, Dean haters. Feel free to start up anytime about all the evil he's doing.

[_Jumper_]

3. Juxtapose that with Shrub, who does not even care about dead soldiers

n/t

[slinkerwink]

5. if that had happened to Bush, the Secret Service probably would've

whisked Bush away. Bush wouldn't even have the slightest idea what to do if someone was having a seizure.

[w13rd0]

24. Bush would have asked him...

...to hold his beer.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

119. Nah. The SS would have shot the guy for violating Free Speech Zones.

[JNelson6563]

4. Rock on Doc!!

Very cool.

Julie

[Oracle]

6. Will republicans call it a SETUP photo-op?

Hmmmm....

[slinkerwink]

12. they didn't seem to do so on Fox News which I heard had aired that

they called him "the good doctor" so....I'm expecting any Democrat Dean-basher to come on here and call it a set-up photo, and say that Dean really doesn't care about people, etcetera, etcetera....


Their level of hatred for Dean disgusts me.

[AWD]

14. You and me both, slinkerwink.....

[slinkerwink]

15. thanks!

:toast:

[nostamj]

27. Every 10th donation will "recieve" a personal hug!

I before E except after C............

;-) so shoot me, I used to proofread for a living!

[wryter2000]

75. Where do I sign up for that?

n/t

[bluestateguy]

16. When Frist does this Fox doesn't let us forget it

As if Frist's aid to one person makes up for the millions that he has blocked from getting health care.

[Cocoa]

18. pre-emptive disgust?

Dean's not my preferred candidate, but good for him. :toast:


edit: I saw him helping a woman on his campaign plane, I think it was a flight attendant, with a foot problem she was having. He was visibly annoyed by the C-span cameras, actually he made a snippy comment about them filming it, he clearly was not doing it for show.

[Eloriel]

34. Now isn't that interesting

I saw that too. Quite a few months ago. C-Span.

I saw him asking the flight attendant some questions, gently probing her swollen ankle, and finally standing up and saying IN GOOD HUMOR and flashing a huge smile to the cameras, "Now, if we can get some privacy, we'll continue with the consultation."

Eloriel

[Cocoa]

38. I meant it as a positive

he sincerely wanted to be left alone to help the woman, didn't want the thing to become part of the C-span campaign coverage.

[slinkerwink]

42. that's what I thought also.....

*nods*

[ShaneGR]

130. I don't hate Dean AT ALL, I like him, but the thought crossed my mind

It's the natural conspiracy theorist in me. But when a neocon columnist claims that, he/she will be made to look ridiculous and partisan.

So I'm left to smile at the photo, because I like what it represents. Go Dean... Go Clark...... Go Edwards.....

I like them all.

[Eloriel]

30. No, but I'm betting some DUers will

or otherwise try to find something to criticize, dismiss or demonize about it.

Eloriel

[Oracle]

56. Which dastardly "DUers" would do that. Eloriel?

Hmmm....

[Forkboy]

143. I can think of a few off the top of my head

unfortunately I suspect naming names wouldn't go over to well with the admins.

[TLM]

53. Doubt it, but I bet the Dean bashers will...

at least one of Dean bashers will probably jump in this thread to call this a staged thing.

[IronLionZion]

110. No way its staged

he was helping people long before his campaign took off, Doctors do that, even Bill Frist helps people

[caledesi]

80. Who cares what repugs think? nt

[AWD]

7. How long before it takes.....

...a Dean-hating "democrat" to claim it was staged.....

Good on you, Dr. Dean!!!!

[roguevalley]

44. so far, no dean hating democrat has emerged. the only complainers

I hear are deanies. Relax, will ya? He did a good thing
and complied with his oath. Anyone with skill would have
and I applaud the doc for it. I will vote for anyone if
they get the nod but it would be a lot easier if people
would lower the heat level everytime someone mentions
something a candidate did. I don't think it helps your
candidate one bit.

Good for the doc.

[slinkerwink]

46. huh?look at some of the posts below---they're by dean bashers

:crosses arms:

[Pastiche423]

8. One more instance

that shows Dean cares.

His face would be wonderful and comforting to see when I come out of a seizure. (I have grand mals.)

[_NorCal_D_]

9. That's great.

Well done Dr. Dean! B-)

[Cooley Hurd]

10. Despite his foray into politics, his Dr instincts are intact...

He's a good doctor, a good politician and a GREAT man!

[Terwilliger]

11. Props to Dean!

it's always impressive to see professionals doing their jobs

[Oracle]

59. If they are doing it correctly...

And he does look like a pro.

[Tatiana]

19. Sweet.

A man with competence, intelligence, and skills. Contrast that with the pResident.

Sad.

[Aristus]

22. The Deshizzer is in the Hizzouse!

Thanks, slink. I needed to see something like this today. Good news about good people helping other good people. That helps. God bless the good doctor!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

26. It really is a good thing

to consider the possibility that someone who is able to do something may win the White House next year.

[Dr Fate]

23. GREAT Photo...

!!! I really like the guy...

[Demobrat]

25. Poor guy.

Not only does he have a seizure, but the guy who runs over to help is Dr Dean, and he winds up with his picture all over the news. Some days you just can't win.

[Pastiche423]

28. Excuse me?

What is the down side of it?

[Demobrat]

33. The down side of it?

For the guy on the ground? About whom I was speaking? That would be the seizure/embarassment side.

[slinkerwink]

36. you made it sound like it was bad that Dr.Dean came to his rescue....

so....:eyes:

[Pastiche423]

39. Are you saying

having a seizure is embarrassing?

Why should it be embarrassing? A person has no control over seizures. Would it have been less embarrassing if the person was having a heart attack?

Please explain!

[Demobrat]

52. You don't think you would be embarassed

to see yourself having a seizure on the 6 o'clock news? I don't know, maybe I'm easily embarassed, but I sure would. Just for the record, I think it's great that Dr. Dean was not able to restrain his natural instinct to run over and help somebody in trouble. I just can't help but feel empathy for the guy in trouble. What did you think I meant? That health problems are embarassing and that Dr. Dean should have spared the man the publicity and looked away? Spare me.

[Pastiche423]

63. No, I would not be embarrassed

to see myself on the six o'clock news having a seizure.

Although none of mine have been photographed, I have had seizures in some mighty public and well known places.

Why should I be embarrassed over something of which I have no control?

[Shakespeare]

66. I'm glad that you're comfortable with that...

...but honestly, I can completely understand why somebody would NOT feel comfortable with that, so I think the other poster has a valid point.

My sister has severe rheumatoid arthritis, has dealt with it all her life, but is horribly self-conscious about people finding out. Some people are just sensitive about their physical frailties, and there's nothing wrong with feeling that way.

[Pastiche423]

68. What does having RA have to do

w/having a seizure in public?

Since I am an epileptic, should I avoid going out in public?

[Shakespeare]

70. Wow, that's really reaching...

Please tell me where in my post I suggested that anyone with ANY physical disability shouldn't go out in public. Take the chip off your shoulder, okay?

I used the RA anecdote as a GENERAL example of how a person with a physical disability might be uncomfortable with suddenly and unexpectedly becoming the center of attention in public. A person with a disability has JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to be self-conscious about that as YOU have the right to feel perfectly comfortable with it.

Like I said in my first post, I'm GLAD you're cool with the fact that you might have a seizuer in public. My point is that not everybody has achieved the comfort level you have, and to suggest that it's untrue to say so or somehow wrong for a disabled person to feel self-conscious is just wrong. It may be fine for you, but that doesn't mean everybody feels that way....or SHOULD feel that way.

[Eloriel]

79. No -- she's right

That post she was responding too was insensitive in the extreme. AND it certainly did make it sound like someone who finds themselves in medical distress would normally or typically (i.e., "should") be embarrassed.

Shame on both of you.

Eloriel

[Shakespeare]

84. I have nothing to be ashamed of, and no that DOESN'T mean she's right

You may share her opinion, but that doesn't make you right, either.

I fail to see how expressing concern for how someone might feel about having a camera shoved in his face during a moment of physical distress is in any way insensitive--and I would feel that way whether it was somebody having a seizure or whether it was somebody who'd sustained an injury of some kind. I think the other poster's reaction--as well as my own--has much more to do with issues of privacy than anything else.

[Julien Sorel]

100. Nobody's business is nobody's business.

I wonder if some of these knuckleheads would get it if the man had AIDS, and that was publicly revealed. Probably not, as long as Howard Dean is involved.

By the way, Dean deserves respect for this, although of course, had he not done anything, the potential for negative publicity would have been high. Politics.

[Pastiche423]

103. The original poster

never once used the word "privacy". His/her point was embarrassment of a disability in public.

You furthered that thought by bringing up your relative's RA. Both you and the original poster tried to bash Dean, by trying to give the person in distress feelings you know nothing about, as well as implying having a disability in public is an embarrassment.

You flunked PC 101 for the day.

[Shakespeare]

117. BULL - Show me where I bashed Dean!

Nowhere, that's where!

How DARE you put words in my mouth to that effect! I have never bashed any of the candidates on DU (and won't), and I challenge you to take a look at my previous posts to that effect. You won't be able to back up that statement, so I kindly request you retract it.

You are obviously VERY sensitive about this situation, and I think perhaps you should step back a bit and take another look at what I had to say. His (or her) point was not embarassment about the disability, so you're putting words into demobrat's mouth as well. I didn't "give" anybody feelings, merely offered my sincere compassion at being put in a position that they may possibly have been uncomfortable with. And I stand by that position, and it's not your place to tell me I shouldn't feel that way. Don't "give" me feelings, either, mkay?

I don't need PC lessons from you, Pastiche, so go find somebody else to condescend to. That was completely uncalled for.

[bleedingheart]

69. People who have problems like seizures get over the embarrassment

rather easily. In fact they have more self confidence than other people without those kind of problems.

I had a coworker/friend in college who wore a helmet because he was susceptible to severe seizures, in fact he ended up having brain surgery (they sliced his brain in half) to try in help him.
He took ballroom dancing lessons, traveled (someone else always drove and dated.)...and was an all around nice guy.

[Shakespeare]

71. Some do, some don't.

Here's another example....I went to high school with a guy who has narcolepsy. Very cool guy, very popular guy. He would occasional collapse in the middle of class, and had grown accustomed to and comfortable with that.

But he was also on our soccer team, and was mortified the few times he went down on the field. It depends on the person, and it depends on the situation.

I think you guys are jumping all over the other poster unfairly--he was expressing sincere concern and compassion, NOT suggesting that the person SHOULD be embarrassed.

[monobrau]

132. I would be

Unlike many americans, I have no desire to appear on television for any reason. I certainly wouldn't want a personal tragedy aired for the public.
Maybe embarassed isn't quite the right word.
When my father died earlier this year, it got a lot of local news coverage and I found it unnerving to see multiple photos of his accident scene on the web within about 2 hours of his death.

[loyalsister]

50. I'm sure publicity was a choice

There's no way his face was publicized without his okay.

[Shakespeare]

62. Nope - since it happened in a public place, his face is fair game

They don't have to have his permission for that.

[loyalsister]

97. To print pictures, etc.

yes, they do. They especially have to have permission to use his name. When it comes to medical conditions, a media outlet could find themselves in an uncomfortable situation if it was not agreed to by the person photographed.
Here's an example of why:
Driving. It is not legal for a person who has seizures to drive except under certain conditions. If such a person were being secretive about the status of their condition and still driving, a media outlet would not want to be in the thick of shining the light on it.
JOB LOSS!!!! Say a person who did not tell their employer they had a seizure disorder happened to be be "caught on tape" by their employer suddenly loses their job?
There are dozens of other scenarios, as well.

[Shakespeare]

98. No, they don't.

A person can refuse to give his name, but if it happens in a public place, yes, the paper can run the picture (and the news station can run the footage). I used to be a newspaper reporter and editor--I know a little about this particular issue. The legality of a newspaper doing this--with the proviso that it must be something that happened in a public place--has been established by legal precedent.

Whether that impacts a person who may or may not have been doing something illegally is not something a newspaper can be punished for. The fact that it was or wasn't published doesn't make the persons actions any more or less illegal; whether they were captured on film or not, if they broke the law, then they broke the law.

on edit: This is how a picture caption might read in the case of someone who didn't want his name used: "Presidential Candidate Dr. Howard Dean offers medical assistance to an unidentified man who experienced a seizure Saturday at a Dean campaign event. The man was transported to a local hospital where he was treated and released."

[loyalsister]

104. Sure but.....

the point is it is like outing someone who is gay. Hidden disabilities are handled differently by different people. I know this from experience and from talking to people. It is not something people are required to disclose to employers. If it cost a person their job, I would hope the paper\news station would feel comfortable with that.

[Shakespeare]

118. I never said I LIKED the idea...

I was merely pointing out its legality.

If you'll notice the little flame war above, I feel quite bad for the gentleman being exposed to publicity he didn't ask for (of course, Pastiche thinks it's horribly insensitive of me to feel that way).

[MercutioATC]

121. Shakespeare's right about this. It's a news item.

If it was to be used for advertisement or for monetary gain, releases would have to be obtained from people who were recognizable in the picture. There are no such requirements for news items.

[slinkerwink]

29. there's a Dean-basher, ready to pour on the cold water of ridiculous.....

hatred. C'mon, give it up guys. The level of Deanophobia here is just plain silly.

[AWD]

31. They won't do it now....

...they know too many people are waiting for it.

[retyred]

72. For someone who claims

to despise it, you sure relish in the thought of it, not this time though....thanks for the offer.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[Shakespeare]

73. Wow.....I don't see how you can say that's Dean bashing...

I'm a Kucinich donor and also intrigued by Clark. And I'll vote for ANYBODY who gets the nomination against Bush. I also won't bash any of the candidates.

I think that poster was sincere in his concern for the person who had the seizure--frankly, I had the same thought when I saw the person. Not everybody is comfortable with unexpected publicity.

[mitchum]

107. Uh...she's a Dean supporter

[ComerPerro]

145. Hey, I just want to say, I agree with you completely

I do feel bad for the guy.

I have epilepsy, and it pretty much ruined my High School life. I didn't really have much of a life, actually.

Anyway, I never liked reliving the episodes, and I never liked having attention brought to it. Part of that is because I would have no recall of what happened during or after it, but I would sometimes even talk to people or do other weird shit. Everyone would not really know how to react, and many times I would get a lot of sympathy and attention right when I came out of one. I was never really comfortable with that, because I didn't want people making a big fuss over my problems. Usually, if I found out I inconvienced someone, it just made me feel worse than I already did.

So, I can see what you are saying.

[wryter2000]

32. Good for him.

He could have ignored the problem because the man obviously had help already. Such caring is good to see. It's also good to see that he isn't totally insulated from his supporters.

BTW, a friend of mine (who's short and slight) was getting crushed by a bunch of people trying to get near Clinton once. A hand reached down to help her up, and Clinton was on the other end of the hand. That was before he was elected, but still...

[slinkerwink]

35. that's a great story!!!

wow, that's cool to hear :-)

[cryofan]

37. Yet Dean would leave more than 10 million without health care!

Bluebood aristocrat.....and he is peaking too early. Kucinich can still can from behind.....

[slinkerwink]

41. *rolls eyes*

It's impossible now to have single-payer healthcare. They said Dean was peaking too early in the late spring, then peaking too early in the summer, then peaking too early in the fall, and now peaking too early in the beginning of winter......well, Dean's going to peak all the way into the white house!

[Code_Name_D]

112. Imposible?

Its imposible to have a singel payer system? This will be news to Canada.

[MercutioATC]

122. Nearly impossible in The U.S. (you know, the country WE live in).

Canada is Canada. There is too much money being funnelled into Washington D.C. by insurance companies to expect a single-payer system to pass now.

Dean wants to get the 40 million uninsured Americans covered NOW by expanding Medicare and the FEHBP (which I'm happy with, being a member). Once people are covered, we can begin to look at alternatives.

[Code_Name_D]

139. Oh I see. We Americans have to get the copreations blessing

before we can see to the common good. I can see where that might look like its imposible. But if Canada can do it, so can we. And have few tires for taking away the public fifth, form the white coler crooks of the medical indesitry.

[loyalsister]

57. DK leaves ALL the uninsured out

He knows his plan won't pass. They won't look at it now. He makes no effort to try to come up with something legislators will take seriously.

[TLM]

60. THat's the number they assume will opt out...

EVEYBODY will have access to coverage if they want it under Dean's plan.

And nice to see you can't help bush bash Dean even when he runs to the aid of a man in need.

[caledesi]

86. Kucinich has a good health plan. The problem is that is will never

pass.

Dean is much more realistic.

[Eloriel]

87. Can from behind?

Is that like Can-Can?

No, he can't. Can't-Can't if you prefer.

Oh -- and Dean's 10 million is an estimate of those who'd opt out. Can't cover people who opt out, now, can you? Can't force everyone to be in the plan else you're treading on their rights now, aren't you?

Eloriel

[joshan361]

40. that was good of him

its almost as good as Clark repelling down the cliff side while under fire to help the vehicle ahead of him that was hit by enemy fire. much longer story then i can write.

[slinkerwink]

43. that's nice, but the people in that car was already dead......

I'd rather not get into a "my candidate is better than yours" circle jerk. Can't we all just appreciate that we have a candidate that's a doctor that can obviously help people?

[Dr Fate]

49. That would make a funny skit though- Clark, Kerry & Dean out-bragging...

...each other...

Even still, I think candidates should play on their strengths, if he really is a good Dr., and he appears to be, then why not appeal to voters with that strength?

TRUST ME- Bush/media will high-light and exaggerate every percieved DEM weakness, so it makes sense to use your strengths...

[joshan361]

58. they were already dead?

what does that have to do with it? and i thinks great what Dean did. i jus thought ide let others know that here was another time Clark risked death to help and defend is all. better yet read the artivcle.

http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2003/030801_mfe_clark_1.html

[THUNDER HANDS]

47. Dean POISONED the man beforehand

I swears it. Heard it from a buddy who heard it from a friend of a friend.

He's evil, that Dean. Pure evil I tells ya.

:D

[slinkerwink]

48. lol, I know you're kidding so here are a couple of....

:spank: :spank:

[_NorCal_D_]

55. Really!?

I knew it! B-)

[Code_Name_D]

113. No! No! He staged it! The whole thing.

Its Deans way of gettign revenge for the USS Lincone turning down his landing request. He had a banner ready and every thing.

[Zomby Woof]

51. well, he is a doctor

He has an obligation to help the sick. He had no choice, ethically or perhaps even legally. His action was commendable, but it was also his job.

So why the hosannas? Any doctor in the crowd, whether running for office or not, would have done the same.

That being said, I hope the patient made a full recovery, and that Dean does not get hosed by the media for doing what is expected of him.

[TLM]

64. Dean thought about this guy, will no concern for himself

Dean did not worry about security or the media or anything... he rushed over to help someone in need.

Dean not only wants to help, he has the knowledge and skill to do so.

This is exactly why he is the man who should be, and will be our next president.

[Zomby Woof]

67. as I said

He is obligated, per his oath. I really have no idea why you replied to me, but you did reinforce what I said nicely. :-)

Being a doctor doing your job does not necessarily mean it will make you a good president. I don't see how today's incident is any indicator of what kind of president he would make. I prefer looking at his record as governor, his public comments and the ability to handle criticism of them, and his demeanor, and I say (with the utmost articulation): Ick.

[wryter2000]

74. Sorry, not true

There's no legal obligation. In fact, a doctor doing that opens him/herself to liability issues if something goes wrong.

[Zomby Woof]

76. I said "perhaps"

Perhaps, not "definitely", because I was unsure of the legalities. I can't be wrong on that point, because I didn't say it with absolute conviction of having the facts on my side, which doesn't stop many people here as far as I see every day.

But, many states have laws to protect "good samaritans" so that they do NOT get in legal trouble for helping someone. In any event, I am enjoying the Dean folks trying to jump all over me even in the slightest for pretty much saying:

1. He did the right thing.
2. He isn't a god for doing so.

I am sure it was #2 that got me in trouble. :-)

[Aristus]

77. Also not true. Doctors are protected by the Good Samaritan Act of 1959.

They cannot be held liable in cases of emergency care. It cuts down on a lot of frivolous lawsuits. If you hear about someone suing a doctor for some reason (or no reason) after said doctor provided care in an emergency, you can be sure the suit will not go to trial. The people who try to defraud the system outnumber the incompetant doctors out there, I'm sure.

[Eloriel]

89. Or dismissed by them for doing what is expected of him

As you're doing.

I'll tell you something -- I read your "cult of personality" post on another Dean thread. Pure bullshit, and very, very insulting. Smarmy, in fact. You belittled yourself in my eyes with it, and continue to do so.

Eloriel

[Shakespeare]

92. Your post about Clark supporters was JUST as insulting.

I am a Kucinich supporter, and after the primaries, I'm ABB.

That said, let ME just say that I saw YOUR post saying essentially the same thing about Clark supporters, and how they're just looking for a "daddy figure." That is every bit as insulting as the posts that talk about Dean's cult of personality.

I would never presume to psychoanalyze someone based on whom they choose to support in the primaries, and I suggest you and Zomby and anyone else who's engaged in such outrageous speculation do the same.

[Zomby Woof]

96. where did I make outrageous speculation?

I was using some song lyrics to make a humorous point, not making a blanket statement about Dean supporters. I think many Dean people are perfectly cool and okay by me. But I like using satire to poke fun of the pompous, as satire is wont to do. :-)

[Zomby Woof]

95. I didn't dismiss him

I said what he did was commendable, but only what was expected as he is a medical doctor. I didn't say anything negative about what he did today, and share the disgust of those who ascribed impure motives to it.

I think what this comes down to is that anyone who falls short of idolatrous praise for Dean is just a basher or "smarmy", lol. My "Cult" post was on target, and I counted on it being dismissed accordingly by its targets.

Sorry to say, but I do not post on DU to garnish your praise or enlargement, so there is really nothing for me to belittle. :-)

[drfemoe]

54. I respect the Doctor

but I hope he keeps 'security' in mind when rushing to people's aid. Some people you don't want to get too close to ..

[slinkerwink]

61. it's against the hippocratic oath not to go to others in aid....

so Dean has an ethical obligation to go to ANYONE in need, even if it might be someone with a kamikaze intention.

[drfemoe]

65. That's not part of the oath

The Hippocratic Oath
You do solemnly swear, each by whatever he or she holds most sacred

That you will be loyal to the Profession of Medicine and just and generous to its members

That you will lead your lives and practice your art in uprightness and honor

That into whatsoever house you shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to the utmost of your power, your holding yourselves far aloof from wrong, from corruption, from the tempting of others to vice

That you will exercise your art solely for the cure of your patients, and will give no drug, perform no operation, for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, far less suggest it

That whatsoever you shall see or hear of the lives of men or women which is not fitting to be spoken, you will keep inviolably secret

These things do you swear. Let each bow the head in sign of acquiescence

And now, if you will be true to this, your oath, may prosperity and good repute be ever yours; the opposite, if you shall prove yourselves forsworn.

-This oath is a version approved by the American Medical Association.

[Aristus]

78. I think what those of us who admire Dean are trying to express is not

simply that he's a doctor and can truly help someone in need, but that he has the skill and desire to help people. He's a worthwhile citizen and human being.

This stands in comparison to B*sh, who is a privileged suckhole who has no brain, no skills, no drive, and no desire to help anyone but his campaign contributors and oil cronies. Also, consider the lengths to which the Chimp has to go to manufacture a 'heroic' photo-op: A combat-ready aircraft carrier and a tired, homesick crew, a fully-fueled jet fighter, a White House suggested and approved banner, bearing lies, clever camera angles, and holding the whole thing up until "magic hour". Putting Dean in that category is unfair and intellectually dishonest.

[slinkerwink]

81. I agree with you....but....

the level of Dean hatred here----god! It just astonishes me at how well the Democrats eat their own...

[Aristus]

85. Well, I suppose there's nothing we can do about it.

I think a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean ticket will go all the way to the White House. I also think that considering everything that's happened since sElection 2000, Democrats will back one of their own in the voting booth, no matter what they say in public. Following a quixotic dream by backing a third-party candidate in order to send a "message" didn't work last time. I think Dems will get behind our candidate this time.

[Scott Lee]

88. I'm telling you..."Deanophobia Nervosa" is going into the texts

as the most serious psychological abnormality of the quarter century.

[Zomby Woof]

91. politics is nasty and brutish

...to borrow from Hobbes on the state of humankind.

Not all of us who criticize Dean are expressing "hatred" for him, although some are. Many are not. For all my criticisms of him on these boards, I even commended him on his actions today - although I had to temper that by saying that he was doing what he was trained for, and we would hope any doctor would if we were in a similar predicament. Though I share your disgust for anyone assigning impure motives to his actions, I also have to laugh at the same time for all the Dean supporters falling all over themselves with praise and all manners of ascribing god-like qualities for a doctor doing what a doctor is supposed to do.

Criticizing a candidate is not "eating our own". Democracy doesn't allow much for niceties as mobthink and unity for the sake of unity. Democracy (and our pretend American showbiz-version of it) is messy and pugilistic. It has been this way even before the framers sat around in that muggy room in a Philadelphia meeting hall and hashed out the blueprints for the republic so many generations ago. The politicians of that era knew a thing or two about vicious discourse, which, like on this board, was quite heated among their supporters and detractors alike.

People who criticize candidates come in all stripes. Some may be intellectually dishonest, some lazy, and some in error with their arguments. But some are right, and it would be equally dishonest or disingenuous to take any and all forms of legitimate criticisms as cannibalism or "bashing".

I don't hate Dean, but I won't mince words about why I think he is unfit to be president of the United States either. I will give him praise when merited, however seldom, and scathing commentary when it is also warranted.

DU should be real fun come primary time. :-)

[Eloriel]

94. It is astonishing but you have to remember

that there are people here who are here for no other reason than to do what they're doing. They are far too single-minded in their anti-Dean fervor, far too ready with the clips and links. From the Kerry and Clark campaigns, mostly. I remember when the Clark campaign "discovered" DU -- there was a week or two where we were suddenly inundated with new members who were Clarkies. I look forward to the day when Clark gets out of the race for that reason alone -- a loss of interest in DU by this special class of members.

Eloriel

[mitchum]

108. Where in the fuck is all of the alleged Dean hatred on this thread?

That kind of pre-emptive paranoia lends a lot of credence to ZombyWoof's pointed satire

[IranianDemocrat]

82. That's great.

Good job Dr. Dean.

:thumbsup:

[Renew Deal]

83. That's great, do you want Frist for president too?

Frist recently helped someone. Anyway, good job Dr. Dr. Dean for Surgeon General.

[slinkerwink]

90. huh? can you please explain how being a Dean supporter equates to

wanting Frist for President? I sure as hell don't get it.

[Aristus]

93. You're comparing Howard Dean to Bill Fristenstein?

What have you been smoking?

And where can I score some?

[slinkerwink]

99. lol

that's funny. :-)

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

102. This wasn't a Deanite revival....this was a campaign stop....

more senseless Dean-bashing for Dr.Dean that helped a supporter---it's a seizure, for chrissakes...

:nuke:

[eileen_d]

105. Dean is an excellent DOCTOR, no doubt about it

;)

I'm LOL at how many Dean supporters are practically *begging* for people to bash Dean on this thread. I don't think anyone doubts that the guy can practice medicine.

[David Zephyr]

106. Where Was This Televised? Any Networks? Du'ers?

Was this seen on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, other?

[DrFunkenstein]

109. Bill Frist For President!!!

Just kidding. It is totally cool that Dean can do this. I'm not sure how that qualifies him for the Presidency outside of some doctor metaphors, but nevertheless color me impressed.

[NashVegas]

114. Says the Devil on my Left Shoulder ..

Let's see Frist beat this!

[Scott Lee]

115. It took 22 minutes for the first DeanBasher to show up on this thread

Slow, slow, slow! Come on you Deanophobes, chop chop! You gotta have a much faster response time than this!

[mitchum]

116. I know that 22 minutes is a long time for a persecution complex fix...

maybe thay won't make you wait so long the next time.

For the record: I applaud Dean's help today. I think it was genuine, selfless, and compassionate.

[Scott Lee]

141. Hey, I was just wondering what was holding them up!

I expected faster response time, that's all.

[Guaranteed]

120. This is an unbelievable picture.

I don't think PR gets better than this.

The only thing I can imagine that would beat this is Dean diving to knock a little girl out of the way of a speeding freight train (or maybe the guy having a heart attack)....I mean, doctors are like gods, in some ways....

[fujiyama]

126. Sure enough, Medical Doctors

are held in the highest esteem in this nation and elsewhere. They dedicate their lives to curing the sick. They help rid us of disease. They do spend over 8 years of their lives (this is on top of the 4 years of undergraduate education) studying how to do this. To become a doctor is difficult and it shows that Dean is well educated and well trained.

Dean did what any good doctor would do. He used his skills to help a person that was in distress.

I would imagine this experience would be very odd for the supporter that had the seizure. After all to have the person your supporting for president come by and help you when in need is somewhat amazing. I hope the man is doing well. And good for Dean for doing what's right.

[RandomUser]

123. Not bad

Good work, Dr. :thumbsup:

[kodi]

124. good deed, doc. nice to see a pol able to do something besides politics

i hope that poor fella' recovers.

this resonates and shows that dr. dean is more than a politician; that he is a professional in a completely different field of endeavor.

powerful stuff such versatility.

[Guaranteed]

125. My dad's telling me that this guy was actually electrocuted....

that he was in a big-rig when it was hit by downed power lines, and he got out and was as "limp as a fish"....Dad says he saw the whole thing on the news...

Anyone else know anything about this?

[Mattforclark]

127. That's great

I am glad he was able to help :)

[slinkerwink]

131. thanks

:-)

[Hippo_Tron]

129. I care but I don't care...

Of course it's great that he helped the man and I can't say I would expect anything less of a good guy like Dean. The fact is that Bill Frist also did something like this and the Republicans use it all the time to make him look like a great guy.

[RummyTheDummy]

133. Gee, I never thought Dean would stoop to taking a page out of Frist's book

This is the worst PR stunt since the carrier landing.

[Shakespeare]

134. Please tell me you're being sarcastic....

The guy had a seizure--how on earth could that be staged??--and Dean rendered aid. Good for Dean, and lucky for the poor guy on the ground. Well done.

[LoZoccolo]

135. Dee, I dever dought Dean dould doop do daking a dage dout of Drist's dook.

Dis is da durst DR dunt dince da darrier danding.

[slinkerwink]

136. it's not a damn PR stunt.....

it happened---the man couldn't control his seizure and Dean is a doctor so he went to help that man....duh.

[Andromeda]

138. Gephardt is probably saying..

SHIT!

[JaneQPublic]

140. Update on the man's condition

http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1020469&t=Local+News&c=2,1020469

Dean, a physician who dropped his practice to pursue a political career, was called back into action Saturday.

A Dean campaign volunteer suffered a seizure and collapsed outside the site of an afternoon rally just as Dean arrived. According to his campaign, Dean gave aid to the man, Jake Edwards, 49, of Spencer, until an ambulance arrived. Dean’s campaign said Edwards was in good condition Saturday afternoon at Mercy Medical Center in Des Moines.

[Scott Lee]

142. The guy's in good condition! DAMN that Howard Dean!

Damn damn damn!!!

[Panda1]

146. Thank you

I've been searching for a story on this for a while. How on earth did you manage to find one? It's as if it didn't happen.

However, if one googles Frist, about fifty million stories pop right up about his January 2 incident. Media bias? I guess so.

I'm surprised this hasn't been spun already into a TOTAL negative such as:

"Dean runs over pedestrian"
"Dean assaults passerby"
"Dean in fist fight"
"Dean molests protester"
"Dean mugs innocent man"


edit: 2 more stories.....buried
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dems16nov16,1,7006955.story?coll=la-headlines-nation
Democrats Say Answers Needed, Not Anger
Presidential candidates gather in Iowa to rally their troops and call for change. Dean draws criticism, but Bush remains the main target.

....
Dean, a physician, also stopped on his way to the rally to help give medical attention to a campaign organizer, Jake Edwards, who had collapsed with an epileptic seizure. Campaign aides later said Edwards was in good condition at a local hospital.
(The very last paragraph)


http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22774618.html
Dean aids staff member who collapsed in D.M.
By Register Staff Report

11/16/2003


With the help of an unidentified man, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, former Vermont governor who is also a medical doctor, renders assistance to a campaign staff member who collapsed outside Central Campus in Des Moines.

They helped Jake Edwards, 49, of Spencer, who collapsed about 3 p.m. because he was having a seizure, said Dean campaign spokeswoman Sarah Leonard.

She said Edwards is a field staff member for the Dean campaign.

Dean was scheduled to appear at an event on Central Campus.

...

[Iverson]

144. I am glad to know that.

I am pleased to know about Dean's human response. It rather hits home for me, since I have epilepsy.

[slinkerwink]

147. I'm sorry to hear that....

how do you cope with it exactly?

[mainer]

148. WWBD? (What would Bush do?)

I'd love to hear DU'ers riff on this..