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Edwards is my favorite but I’m gonna go Dean or Clark.

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eyeontheprize Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:36 PM
Original message
Edwards is my favorite but I’m gonna go Dean or Clark.
That Edwards is a self made man, that truly means the world to me. The difference is that Dean gets it; he knows that any weakness will be exploited, fair play is a thing of the past, the only way to win is to get down with them and use their weapons. Clark may get it also, but I have misgivings about someone who was a Republican so recently.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not going to argue with you
but I do want to point out that Clark was NOT a Republican. He was a registered independent in the state of Arkansas as I am right now. I have to go change that, though...
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eyeontheprize Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not to start anything
I don't even bother to read the candidate flame threads, but what about that tape of him cheerleading for the Chimp. Really, all I want is one answer, not a flame, but it didn't make a supporter out of me.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Maybe it should bother me
but it doesn't. I have read the speech and I see it as a generalization not specific praise of Bush. I sure wouldn't call it cheerleading. But, hey, some people might see it differently. That's their perogative.

As for the others, I really think that he believed what he was saying and thought that they would do things differently than they actually turned out. But, hey, again, that's just my opinion. Each person is entitled to their own.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The problem also lies in pure TV cosmetics:
That cut of Wesley Clark talking about how glad he was to have bush as our president and blah-blah-blah is presented - boom! Cold! Crisp, memorable, isolated soundbite, nicely short enough to take up only a few seconds. The more concise it is, the easier it seems to stay, or be driven, into the popular memory. You repeat that cut frequently enough over the days and weeks, and pretty soon it's started to sink in.

While I'm a Deanie, I'd like to give Clark the benefit of the doubt here, too. I'm sure at the time he really thought he was being sincere. How many people here have read or, in fact, posted that they have a neighbor or a family member or coworker who's experienced a change of heart on bush and expressed regret for having voted for him last time? Frankly, I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt to most anybody who doesn't repeat the same mistakes. But Clark's statements in that soundbite stick in my memory, too, and I am disappointed, since I can't imagine how ANYONE could EVER be glad to have bush as our president (unless power-grabbing and land-grabbing and other assorted piracy are your thing)!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Here's the speech....make sure to read it......then decide
what praises he was really giving.....

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004065
here is the full paragraph of contention:
------------------
You see, in the Cold War we were defensive. We were trying to protect our country from communism. Well guess what, it's over. Communism lost. Now we've got to go out there and finish the job and help people live the way they want to live. We've got to let them be all they can be. They want what we have. We've got some challenges ahead in that kind of strategy. We're going to be active, we're going to be forward engaged. But if you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be done. And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office: men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condolzeezza Rice, Paul O'Neill--people I know very well--our president, George W. Bush. We need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in Europe.
----------------------
notice he says he is glad to have them in office for the challenges ahead in EUROPE!
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Cheerleading Or 2 Lines Of Diplomatic Salutation?
Great leaders are seldom rude and they don't segregate themselves from their opposition.

I founded an art organization for women... small one...
even for that I had to not only SAY nice things about some a**holes but also had to BE nice.

It is called diplomacy.

The ruder you are the less effective you are as a leader.

It's still a trial for me to maintain my civility sometimes.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Thanks for adding this.
I think we (USA) are sorely in need of diplomacy.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. The cheerleading is part of Clarks debate technique
Smile at them, give em a peck on the cheek and when you're sure they're paying attention ~ smack em upside the head with the truth.

Later (in the part of the speech the RNC did NOT release for the news) Clark proceeded to tell them ALL KINDS OF THINGS they did not want to hear at all. I'm sure someone could give you a link to the transcript if you would like. If you really want it I'll do a dig for it.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. LOL
I loved your analysis of his technique.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Check out my post on top...I give the link....
I have posted this damn speech 1000 times, pieces, whole bits, etc...

Do people really read the links on DU, that is my question?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's what I DON'T like about Dean. We can win clean.
Keep your eyes on the prize, so to speak, and go with your gut. I actually think an Edwards/Clark or Clark/Edwards ticket would be unstoppable.
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eyeontheprize Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That may be true, Clark is almost a must on the ticket.
Because he has the military edge, but my gut is that he shouldn't take the top.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. We are trying to beat Bush....
not Cheney...that's why Clark must be at the top!

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. Remember to watch Meet the Press tomorrow.
Clark is on.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. and watch
60 minutes II on Wednesday

and David Letterman on Thursday...

to get a Clark fix.....
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well that's a nice blast of airtime!
nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Just watched the Jefferson Jackson Dinner....
and something was missing. It was flat. Hey, maybe.....

this is why! Clark wasn't there!
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. But you have to admit, Edwards was AWESOME.
By far - the best speech.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. it's Clark's own fault for pulling out of Iowa so it was his fault that he
wasn't there. :shrug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. No blame assigned.....
just said a certain electricity was not in the air....for me of course. Wasn't excited by those I saw on stage....

Edward was good....but similar speech as always.....son of a mill worker....

Kerry was good too......

Dean was "Deja vu"....

Maybe it's me....maybe I watch this stuff too much and have already heard all of the lines....

Best line tonight was from CMB....Orwells 1984 was fiction...not prophecy.... that was excellent!
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Mt honest assessment is
Edwards needs seasoning. He's someone who deserves attention in 8 or 12 years. He's a solid democrat, he's just not ripe yet.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. He's ready. And he's going to surprise a lot of people.
His support in Iowa tonight was stunning.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. He wasn't a Republican, he was an independent. But that aside
Clark is very much a self made man. Scince that matters to you, look into his bio. It's pretty remarkable.

Also consider this from a 1998 report to congress by Clark on the needs of milirary and their families. Tell me if it sounds like a republican to you.

" RESOURCE PRIORITIES - AN INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE

Quality of Life

"The judgement, creativity, and fortitude of our people will remain the key to success in future joint operations."

Joint Vision 2010

Our most precious resource is the service member and his or her family. Quality of life (QOL) is one of my very top theater priorities, as it is inextricably linked to readiness, retention, the reinforcement of service core values, healthy family life, high morale and mission accomplishment.

The quality of our housing, medical care, schools, religious services, public facilities, services and recreation activities define the American standard of living. The expectation of the DoD family, serving across the vast USEUCOM Theater, is no different.

Our goal is to ensure all USEUCOM forces enjoy the optimum achievable standard of living; comparable to that of the society they are pledged to defend and that of their DoD counterparts stateside.

Our most important 1998 QOL strategy objective was to analyze and quantify the impact QOL has on readiness. We took "expert testimony" from installation commanders and senior enlisted advisors from across the theater. Their conclusions were identical: quality of life is critical to personnel readiness and retention. They are not satisfied with the quality of the programs in this AOR. With the exception of Equal Opportunity and the Chaplaincy programs, none of the other 23 total program areas evaluated compares favorably with its CONUS counterpart. Family housing and barracks, pay and retirement, health care and dependent education were consistently identified as lagging the farthest behind. We must do better in compensating service members and families whose well-being is constantly taxed through repetitive deployments and the stress of family separations. USAREUR soldiers, for example, are often deployed two to three times during a normal overseas tour. Nonetheless, USAREUR continues to enjoy record retention rates. Our analysis tells us that these rates correlate directly to our mission focus while emphasizing soldier and family programs.

Overseas troops, civilian employees and families often rely solely on DoD-provided programs for support because they do not have the same off-base alternatives as their CONUS counterparts. Dependent education is a prime example. Today over half of USEUCOM service members have families with children in school. The DoD education system is the 27th largest US public school system, with 160 schools serving 78,000 students. USEUCOM provides logistical support for 118 of these schools and 50,000 students. Funding new programs such as all-day kindergarten and improved student-to-teacher ratios are extremely important to USEUCOM QOL. Your support for this funding is crucial.

Individuals responding to a recent theater-wide survey targeting dependent-education issues identified dependent education as the most important of eight QOL support-program areas. Our children deserve a world-class school system with curriculum and programs to match the best. This is the standard our military personnel and their families expect and deserve.

Athletics, music, art and associated after school activities are as critical as the core academic subjects of math, science, history and English.

Many schools do not offer vocational programs. They have been forced to choose between college preparatory or vocational offerings, because their budget cannot support both. We must take aggressive action to expand vocational, technical and school-to-work programs.

Additionally, I believe in the importance of linking Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA) programs to the National Education Goals and Presidential Initiatives. We must work toward establishing an 18:1 student-teacher ratio for grades 4-12. We also need to push for program-based staffing. More counselors, technical support and special-needs teachers to match curriculum requirements not school size. I would also like to see theater-level School Boards that would participate in all DoDEA related activities.

The health and well being of our active duty and family members is increasingly important as we face an increased military operations tempo with decreases in recruitment and retention. We have an increasing responsibility to provide a world-class health and dental plan, with uniformity of medical and dental benefits and standardized processes for beneficiaries as they move throughout the world.

The $50M funding received via FY99 Emergency Supplemental Appropriation for Morale, Welfare and Recreation, and Personnel Support for contingency deployments was greatly appreciated and will improve the QOL for all those deployed. Additionally, I fully support the pay and retention issues addressed by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the service component leaders. Improvement to QOL issues, in the long run, will serve to improve every CINC's manning concerns.

Housing

Last year Congress supported all but one of our FY99 Military Construction and Family Housing projects. I am grateful for your support, as are the troops and their families who benefit from these projects. The challenge of eliminating and renovating large numbers of inadequate housing is still a huge obstacle we attack on a daily basis. Those of you who have visited our theater know that more than one-half of our family housing and barracks fall far short of the DoD standards. Barracks constructed by the German Army in the 1930's have only received minor improvements and necessary maintenance and repair. Quarters built during the Marshall Plan era still have original kitchens, baths and utility systems.

Our Service Components have used a "worst first" strategy to upgrade our housing inventory. Current Defense guidance requires elimination of gang latrines by 2008 and elimination of inadequate housing by 2010. All services are on track to meet these goals. However, many of our service members will retire before their quarters are brought up to those standards.


The top-line increases reflected in the FY00 budget provided significant additional resources for Real Property Maintenance (RPM). However, remaining shortfalls in RPM accounts may further exacerbate the inadequate state of our housing. After must-fund requirements (fire protection, utility and trash removal bills, contracts and civilian pay) are met, there are precious few dollars left to do much more than emergency housing repairs. Commanders are making every effort to stretch their limited budgets, but our need is greater than the resources available.


Congress should remain committed to fixing housing in this theater."
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Dean and his supporters should stop the "Clark is/was a Republican"
bs.

It's slander.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well politics is a blood sport
as the big dog told Clark early on.

Look, Clark's roots go back to the Democratic party.....his father was active years ago...

Dean was from a family of Republicans.....

So what you gonna do?
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-15-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. But think of who you're talking about
I've never seen anybody on DU accuse Dean of being a racist, insensitive or making a remark in poor tasete yes but racist? Not one.

BUT: I have seen Deanies cry about us calling Dean a racist.


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