Why RWingers won't allow a Democrat to govern in 2004

[Q]

- I can hear some of you now: There goes Q again with his Sunday morning rant about Democrats. But this is more about why the extreme right wing can't and won't allow a Democrat to take high office or govern until they've completed their agenda. Suffice it to say that this agenda will last approximately as long as the war on terrorism.

- I've touched on this theme before but I'm still not quite sure how they'll do it. It might be done with election fraud, vote manipulation or simply using a legal excuse to not count them at all. They'll certainly use the American corporate media for smears and character assassination. They might use acts of terrorism to keep people from voting. If all this fails and a Democrat wins despite all their efforts...they'll either prevent him from taking office like Gore or prevent them from governing like Clinton.

- With Clinton and Gore...Democrats 'should have' held the White House for at least 12 years. But it wasn't a coincidence that Clinton was 'impeached' and that Gore was smeared and forced into exile by RWing extremists and a partisan Supreme Court. Keeping Democrats out of power was part of the same plan that put us in Iraq and turned our congress into a rubber stamp and our government into an American Banana Republic.

- Although many Democrats are still in denial...the US is essentially fighting a new civil war. It's a war of ideologies in which the Right is determined to win by any means. They WILL NOT accept a Democratic win because they actually believe only their side deserves to lead this country. This is the same mentality that demands hearings, investigations and witch hunts against Democratic candidates and leaders...but refuses to be held to the same standards.

- 2004 will make the 2000 fiasco look like a picnic. Democrats will attempt to campaign on the issues and the Bushie Republicans will close their eyes, jump up and down and accuse them of hating Bush*, America and the troops. The 2004 campaign and election will center around a battle of ideologies and Bush's* 'divine right' to lead this nation's crusade against terrorism. Democrats will be assailed by a corporate media invested in Bush's* military-industrial complex and a 'religious right' that believes he was chosen by God to lead.

- Democrats can prepare themselves by at least recognizing that this will be a fierce battle for control of this country and not just another election where all sides play by the rules and the best man wins. Democrats must be made aware that even if they win the election...the other side will do everything they can to prevent them from governing and advancing Democratic ideals and principles. Recent history proves this is true.

- We need to prepare for 'battle' and realize that we have many friends on our side who will help us if we only ask. We can no longer afford to play soft ball politics against those willing to play outside the rules of civil conduct and Democracy. We must meet them on the battlefield and confront them face to face...issue to issue. When they lie and cheat we must call them on it and not allow them to get away with it. We must insist that they play by the rules or shut down government until they do. It's time to fight or be a counted as collateral damage on the battlefield of ideologies. It's a cultural war the other side intends to win.

- Find some passion and fight.

[gristy]

1. Sorry, Q. I don't see anything new here.

I just don't. This fight has been pretty well-defined here on DU for some time now.

[Q]

3. The 'fight' has been defined...but not the plan...

...to engage the other side.

- Some Democrats 'got it' long ago. But many still seem to believe that there will be an 'even playing field' in 2004. They don't seem to understand that even if we DO win in 2004...the battle has only begun.

- What DUers 'understand' and what the party in general understands are two different things. This country is split in half. Democrats are perfectly willing to call GWB* 'president' even though he wasn't elected and governs against the will of the people. The New Republicans don't feel this way. They have and will prevent Democrats from governing even if they win and refuse to recognize their very right to govern.

- The pattern is obvious and we should be prepared. Demanding a fair and even playing field should be our first step. And we can't allow the Bushies to keep the upper hand by not pursuing and prosecuting their criminal acts.

[JailBush]

2. Fighting Words

"It wasn't a coincidence that Clinton was 'impeached' and that Gore was smeared and forced into exile by RWing extremists and a partisan Supreme Court."

Amen - Clinton brought some of his problems on himself, and Gore ran an amazingly lousy campaign.

"The US is essentially fighting a new civil war. It's a war of ideologies in which the Right is determined to win by any means. They WILL NOT accept a Democratic win because they actually believe only their side deserves to lead this country."

True.

"2004 will make the 2000 fiasco look like a picnic."

Probably.

"Democrats will attempt to campaign on the issues..."

Gosh, I hope so. That would be a pleasant surprise.

"Democrats can prepare themselves by at least recognizing that this will be a fierce battle for control of this country and not just another election where all sides play by the rules and the best man wins."

They could do even better if they recognized that the presidential election isn't the only game in town. Unfortunately, they already blew Campaigns 2002 and 2003.

"We need to prepare for 'battle' and realize that we have many friends on our side who will help us if we only ask."

Actually, most whisttle-blowers and genuine activists will tell you they have very few friends. However, I agree we have to muster some passion and fight.

[Q]

5. While it's true that Clinton...

...brought a lot of his troubles upon himself...we can't forget that the New Republicans used our legal system to 'bait and switch' us about Whitewater and then used a consenual affair to bring about impeachment.

- That Gore ran a 'lousy campaign' was a part of the campaign of lies by the RWing to make people believe that he didn't 'deserve' to win. It was part and parcel of the same campaign that spread misinformation about Gore being a 'pathological liar' and 'delusional'.

- We must STOP playing into these lies and concentrate on exposing the truth.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

4. Good Morning Q.

Once again you are correct in your view of how things are.
* and crew will not go down easy, nor will any rules of normal conduct apply.
I fully expect more smears than in all other prior campaigns, right alongside the highest praise for *.
As well as rigged elections and another "terrorist" attack in this country.
I also expect that within 60 days of the election next year, that another country WILL be attacked.

You hit the nail on the head by saying we are in the midst of another civil war.

[Q]

6. There will be no 'guns' in this civil war...

...but among the weapons will be a corporate media that doesn't want Democrats in control of our government. They will use bold lies and propaganda to convince the RWing faithful and 'fence-sitters' that Democrats don't 'deserve' to govern.

[Walt Starr]

12. I disagree because the Reichwing is walking a thin line

There WILL be guns in this Civil War if they blatantly steal a second election, and my predicition is tha they will.

My predicition is that a state run by a Rethuglican legislature and a Rethuglican governor will vote to give all of its electors to the Democrat and the Democrat will win both the popular vote and the electoral college by the results of the vote counts. This state will then call an emergency session of the legislature and turn over the electoral votes to Bush. The Rethuglican Governor will sign that into law.

The Supreme Court will vote 5-4 to uphold the underhanded action of that state legislature. Bush wins.

[Q]

27. Indeed...these are dangerous times...

...but with the RWingers controlling the media and thus being able to frame the debate...it will be 'easy' for them to placate the people into accepting another 'loss' by the Democratic party.

- Everything has been set in motion. Already the corporate media and talking head pundits are spreading the 'message' that Democrats oppose Bush* because they 'hate him'...not because he is doing anything wrong or illegal.

- We need to go on the offensive and expose the Bushies for the whole world to see. Bush* has the upper hand in the next election as long as he's perceived to be a humble and honest man. He's not...and we shouldn't be afraid to tell the truth about him and his agenda.

[BigLed]

38. Holy Sh*t

I have tried to not believe such an outright theft would be possible but your scenario has some plausibility to it. Any particular states in mind?

[Q]

41. Few noticed...

...during the 2000 election that the Florida legislature 'promised' to give ALL their votes to Bush* no matter how the recount turned out. This unethical act wasn't covered much in the 'mainstream' media.

- So then...your scenario is quite possible in the context of the 2000 election...when partisan states/legislatures circumvent the EC and the law to put their guy in office.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

21. Perhaps there is some creative way...

To "flip the switch" on all that noise, some way to turn that propoganda arm off.
Would it not be a pleasant thing if Rush and his cohorts were unable to get their message across?

[Q]

34. The problem is deeper than 'propaganda'...

...and a good example was brought up by another poster: the 9-11 commission being 'required' to accept edited versions of presidential briefings.

- What many of us don't realize is that RWing extremists have been placed in positions of power at every level of our government. They understand that the truth about 9-11 would bring about Bush's* impeachment or weaken his position in the next election. The bottom line is that they will abuse the power of their offices to keep the truth from the American people.

- The ony course of action left to the Democrats on the commission is to demand that the full truth be told to the American people. Americans need to know...before they show up to vote in 2004...that the Bushies knew an attack was coming and did nothing to prevent it.

[Q]

25. Good morning...

...and while my 'theories' have many flaws...I do believe we must prepare ourselves beyond running great and honorable candidates.

- We must face the fact that the 'other side' hates us for what we believe. Their glorious leader set the tone: we're either with them or with the 'terrorists'.

[Cocoa]

7. the fact that you don't say a word about the judicial fight...

says it all.

In a very long post that concludes "find some passion and fight" you don't get around to mentioning this extraordinary event that only happened a couple of days ago. You obviously have blinders on your brain.

[Q]

9. Tick, tock...

- I find it revealing that you seem to be fighting a different battle. If you read the topic description you'll notice that I'm referring to a different type of battle. That is...what the other side is doing...not the Democrats.

- You seem to be stuck in reverse....one of the reasons why many Democrats don't seem to understand what they up against.

- The fight over judicial nominees was a great and much needed battle. But it's only a battle in a much larger war. We may be winning some battles...but are losing the war of ideologies. We're still...for the most part...still playing by a set of rules the other side abandoned long ago.

- To use an old cliche...we're bringing a knife to a gunfight and expect the other side to give us a break because we only have a knife.

- I'm saying that the New Republicans will cheat to win, use character assassination and smears to discredit our candidates and even if we DO win the current crop of extremists running this country will stand in the way of our party advancing our own agenda.

- But then again...if you think Clinton was really impeached because he broke the law and Gore was prevented from taking office because it was a 'close race'...then we have nothing to discuss.

[Cocoa]

16. it's the same battle

Bush's attempting to stack the courts with right-wingers is exactly part of the overall assault on us by the right wing.

I'm not denying this overall war at all. I'm just saying that you are making a claim that may or may not be true, which is that we can't win, that the right wing somehow has the ability to "not allow" us to win.

You'll deny that's your claim, you'll point to disclaimers in you post that make it sound like you're providing a constructive solution, but these disclaimers are transparent. Bush's loss with his judges contradicts your thesis, which of course is why you totally ignore it.

No doubt in my mind that if the dems hadn't filibustered, the judicial fight would be central in your arguments.

[Q]

23. You're right about the attempt to stack the courts...

...and it IS part of the battle. But at some point we have to face reality and accept the fact that the extremists have won enough of the battles to place themselves firmly in power.

- Another good example of this battle of ideologies: Richard Perle is on CSPAN right now referring to a caller that objected to Bush* politicies as a 'fool'. This is how they think and they encourage the RWing faithful to believe the same way. They don't feel they need to debate the issues...they're in contol and will call you a 'fool' for opposing them.

- Would you Please LISTEN to what I'm saying instead of inserting your prejudices against my premise? I'm not saying the Democrats can't win. I'm saying they must fight AND accept the FACT that the other side has no intention to play by the rules.

- I'm asking you and other Democrats to LEARN from history and be prepared for another 2000 fiasco.

[Mountainman]

8. You give them way too much credit

This is the gang who got us into this war with lies and can't accomplish their mission nor can they find an exit strategy.

It is true that the right has much power with the media on their side and all their think tanks, but they are having limited success. Even though they smeared Gore in 2000 he won the popular vote.

The independents are leaning towards the Dems. People are less and less inclined to fall for the right's lies. They can see the truth in their own daily lives.

No, the right is going down. I think that as the decade goes on, the left will gain more power.


Gandhi said, "When I despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think if it, always."

[Q]

13. I give them no more credit...

...than is deserved. They've been extremely successful at blocking the Left's agenda while advancing their own.

- But doesn't it say something for their 'skills' that they were able to take this country to war based on lies that no one now wants to challenge? And perhaps their 'mission' was different than what you suspect? They mission has always been about war profiteering, controlling ME oil resources and establishing more military bases.

- "Success" must be in the eyes of the beholder. The Bushies have devastated the environment, harmed the working class poor, gave unnecessary tax cuts and other bennies to the rich, deregulated most industries and revived the military-industrial complex. I'd hate to see what you would call a failure.

- The left can't 'gain power' until they fight for it. Those in firm control of this country will not simply hand it over.

[Mountainman]

51. The people were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt

But that is wearing thin.

[screembloodymurder]

10. I agree

we must be prepared to fight. The fight must be taken to the streets. The first battle should be against the "free speech zones". We must be allowed to protest wherever the presidents supporters are allowed to show their support. This is not negotiable.

[Q]

15. Can you imagine even the existance of 'free speech zones'...

...in a country that presumes to call itself 'free'?

- The Right gained control of this country by lying, cheating and stealing. They will retain the upper hand until we're able to come right out and tell the truth about it. Right now the corruption is like America's dirty little secret that no one wants to talk about in public.

- This is why we must support those few Dems willing to risk their lives and careers when they 'speak truth to power'.

[Noordam]

11. BUt the RW nor the Dems to be fair can control the EURO and Japanee

Yee. and they are going up against the dollar. That means things made oversea will cost $$$$$$$$.......

[Old and In the Way]

14. Perhaps they have sown the seeds of their own self-destruction.

I think those on the political left have been energized, maybe even radicalized, by the right's attempt to dismantle our federal government. I hope that a new generation of Democrats will carry the fight back at these corporate stooges and swing the pendulum back towards the liberal social policies that made this country great.

[Q]

18. I see that 'energy'...but it's disorganized...

...and haphazd in it's approach to widespread government corrupton and malfeasance. We have 'factions' that won't work together and conflicting agendas.

- It's indeed true that a 'new generation' of Democrats are needed to dismantle what this corruption has built. But if Bush* gets another four years...it will take literally decades for the full truth to come out and corrections to be made.

- Remember that most Americans still haven't been told the truth about Iran/Contra. The fact that the Bushies plan on fighting a war on 'terrorism' they say will last decades should warn us to the fact they'll be able to hide their own crimes as long as we're on a 'wartime footing'.

[dusty64]

17. Things will NOT be pretty

if we only win back the WH in 2004. If the thugs are allowed to control Congress they will fight every attempt to fix the mess they have created. Every lie, smear, rumor, and innuendo will be blasted across the media and "investigated" by Congress. We need to sweep all branches of government next year or a Presidential win that actually allows us into the WH may be a very hollow victory indeed.

[Q]

20. We need to ask what stands in the way...

...of not only winning back the WH...but ridding our government of RWing exremists and zealots.

- It HAS to start with the truth. Many Americans support the 'war on terrorism' and our invasion/occupation of Iraq because they don't know the whole truth. They don't know that the Bushies planned on attacking Iraq before they took office and merely used 9-11 as a convenient excuse.

- The American people will NOT vote using 'informed consent' in the 2004 election. They're being intentionally kept in the dark to give Bush* an advantage in the next election...just as they were deprived of what they needed to know about Bush* before the 2000 election.

[dusty64]

26. This is true. I've

yet to hear a mention of the "agreement" between the 9/11 commission and our regime which allows them to "edit" documents before they can even look at them. This story is HUGE, yet nothing. The corporate stranglehold on our media outlets is probably the biggest problem in this Country besides the control of our "voting" machines made by extreme rightwing companies. How do we get it back. The effort by President Gore to start a network that reports the truth is a good start, but he is facing large roadblocks. We need the help of wealthy people of like mind and a Democratic Congress willing to stop this.

[Q]

29. The 9-11 commission is a great example...

...of what we're up against. Democrats on the commission are trying to get to the truth...but the Bushies can fall back on the time-honored excuse of protecting 'national security' to cover their trail. The media then helps the Bushies by reporting that the Democrats are being 'unpatriotic' for 'helping the terrorists' by forcing the Bush* WH to expose national security secrets.

- We've seen that Bush* can literally do anything and get away with it during a 'time of war'. He has taken power never granted by the Constitution. That's why we must expose Bush's* war for the sham it is.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Difference between 2000 and 2004

I have Republican/conservative friends who voted for Bush in 2000. Now they are saying anyone but Bush. They are saying he is dangerous and threat to our way of life. I don't think they will sit still if the right wing tries to rig this election.

[Q]

24. Despite the feelings of your friends...

...the Bushies have the GOP base firmly in hand and in control. I believe that most of those who voted for Bush* in 2000 will vote for him again...for the same reasons: they will NEVER vote Democratic.

- These are voters who believe that Republicans have a 'right' to rule this country and that Democrats are either weak or evil or both. Facts and truth are irrelevant to them.

- They're fighting a cultural war...not simply running candidates in an election.

[TruthIsAll]

44. The Dems CANNOT lose..only Diebold and fraud can beat them..

You say:
...the Bushies have the GOP base firmly in hand and in control. I believe that most of those who voted for Bush* in 2000 will vote for him again...for the same reasons: they will NEVER vote Democratic.

I say:
Of course. That's a no-brainer. Bush will get his hard core. That's OK. But it is clear that Bush will lose some of his support; the Dems will retain all of their Gore voters - and also add those who will be energized to vote this time. And the Indies will vote Dem, probably 3-1.

So, simple arithmetic tells us the Dems CANNOT lose the election. They won by 540,000 last time; it would have been 1.5 million were it not for Nader. And I haven't mentioned the votes stolen from Gore in FL and elsewhere, through disenfranchisement, illegal absentee ballots, spoiled overpunched ballots, etc..

There is only way we lose: if we allow Bush to steal it again. That is all we must fight against.

I predict at least 54% minimum (a landslide) for the Dems in a fair election.

Our ONLY immediate goal: Get Dems to focus on this issue. Get 60 Minutes to report it. Get the Holt Bill for a paper trail into law!

Iraq. 9/11, the economy. We have already won on these issues. Bush has been exposed. Anything more is just gravy.

[Q]

53. Democrats could indeed win...but still 'lose'...

...recent history shows this is possible. History also shows that thousands of Democratic votes were simply thrown away for various reasons.

- The Bushies already know they can't beat the Dems in a 'fair and square' race. But they've more that likely considered this as they plan to take the election by any means.

- In Bush* we have a illegitimate president without a mandate. With the help of 'their' media...they've created both legitimacy and a mandate by using war and further dividing the country into anti-Democratic factions.

- It would be great if all we had to worry about was getting out the vote.

[Q]

22. Let's discuss the tactics used by the RWing extremists...

...now in control of our country.

- They hated Clinton and Gore with a PASSION and used the 'politics of personal destruction' to turn the people against them. Now that Democrats have legitimate complaints and concerns about Bush*...they're changing from offense to defense and accusing Dems of doing what they did against Clinton and Gore.

- In other words...the Democrats are to blame even when Republicans are in power. They accuse us of class warfare in a war THEY started. They accuse of being unpatriotic and unAmerican in our resistance against a war THEY started for their own personal and political gain.

- We must learn to relentlessly hammer them and the American public with the truth....and never back down.

[starroute]

28. Wedge issues vs. real issues

I don't think the Republicans are going to be able to run on 9/11 and support-the-troops. I see them instead as starting to shape up a campaign that's heavy on wedge issues, with gay marriage and the 10 Commandments being the two that have emerged so far.

I would say the Democrats have to stake out a position of running on "real issues" or "what really counts." People are hurting, and they need to be reminded of that. They need to be shown why they should rightly blame Bush for it, rather than some delayed effect of Clinton or politicians in general. But they also need to be led to think about their problems in a positive, empowering, FDR-ish kind of way, instead of a you-are-the-victim or a this-country-sucks kind of way.

The Democratic presidential candidate, whoever that turns out to be, will be the appropriate person to sound this note and energize support.

But second, I think there has to be a more subtle campaign to take wedge issues off the table. This is probably something that candidates themselves shouldn't come near, because it touches so many emotional hot buttons. It may be more an op ed and letters to the editor kind of thing.

I don't know if it could be done this baldly, but I'm seeing an issues ad in my mind's eye right now, where a Jane Public figure (attractive but distressed lower middle class housewife type) says, "When I lost my job and Joe's hours were cut back at the plant, making ends meet got really tough for us. Then my mom fell sick and we had to pitch in for her medicine, and little Joey started having behavioral problems at school. Since all this started, things just haven't been the same between Joe and me. We argue a lot and we aren't close the way we once were. But you want me to believe my marriage is in trouble because two guys are shacking up together on the other side of town? Get real!!"

[Q]

31. The Bushies will indeed run on 9-11 and the war on terrorism...

...because that's all they have to run on.

- War provides the background for the Bushies to instill fear and accuse the Democrats of not supporting Bush's* 'noble' effort to protect this country from terrorism. Bush* can campaign as Commander in Chief while demeaning the 'weak and ineffective' Democratic party.

- Bush* has convinced the Right Half of America that he's the right man for the job in the 'war on terrorism'. That's all they need to make the 2004 race close enough to manipulate or outright steal.

[ShaneGR]

30. Snooze.... nothing new here from you Q

The sky is falling, Dems aren't passionate!

Starting to get a bit like the little boy who cried wolf.

[Q]

32. Nothing here...but yet you show up to smear and belittle...

...doesn't that make you a gadfly? Shoo!

- Part of a winning strategy must include the FACT that the corporate media doesn't want Democrats in power. Yes...they will occasionally give Democrats empty platitudes...but gladly participate in discrediting Democrats and spreading rumors and misinformation.

- I'm not crying 'wolf'. But it's a shame that some of us (you) can't seem to learn from history and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Just ONCE I'd like to see you address the issues. Can you do it?

[mdmc]

33. If this is a civil war

(I agree) then what side are we on? It looks like dixie around here. Are progressives going to become the next Cheerokee?

[Q]

35. I'd like to think we're on the side of truth and what is right...

...for the good of the people. Certainly we don't have to be told that it's not 'right' to start wars based on lies and kill thousands of innocents and hundreds of soldiers in Iraq. We shouldn't have to be told it's wrong for the Bushies to cover up the truth about 9-11.

- What's 'right' must always center around the common good. We can't be seen as associating with or giving ground to liars and warmongers.

[Ardee]

36. I have no problem with what you state

In fact i am firmly on your side about 100%. The one missing item from all this truth is that the democratic party has had the facts since the Clitnon impeachment, the strategies of the right wing have been clearly delineated and implemented with exactly what response from the democrats?

Some rant about the biased media and say that the dems are given no public forum for their dissent, I say bullshit, there IS NO DISSENT!The Gore campaign was a model of propriety and facts, any thinking voter would have seen the honesty and the rightness of Albert Gore Jr., his ultimate fitness for office and the dishonesty and unfitness of his opponent. But I believe that Gore was muzzled by his handlers, by Donna Brazile at the behest of the DLC leadership. I believe that we have been sold out by the leadership of the democratic party and have been since the late 90's.

Again and again we saw opportunity to expose poorly framed strategies and deceptive statements by Bush and company pass silently and unsaid.Time and again we saw complicitous voting patterns of our elected democrats, refusal to stand up and be counted when most needed.Over and over we saw the intellignece of the american public demeaned by democrats who claimed ( falsely and with other motivation, in my opinion) that the public did not want to hear, would react violently against the messenger and all the other apologetic tripe that has led the democrats to be trivialised and shunted aside.

I would add that this is not a hopeless rant, that it is never too late to turn it around and Ive seen signs of that turnaround in the opposition to the four ridiculous judicial nominees of the inept Bush.But we need a hell of a lot more from the elected democrats and we certainly do not need a nominee who is a centrist in liberals clothing, a phoney who ran his state like a republican and now claims to be a reincarnation of Wellstone, bah and double bah!

[Q]

37. I'm at a loss to explain the response of the Dem party....

...and their lack of a discernible strategy against the RWing onslaught. But you're right when you say that the 'party' has had all the facts since the inquisition against Clinton...and then Gore.

- I agree that we have no right to place all the blame on the media when the Democrats don't join together in protest against what's being done to them. And Gore was indeed betrayed by his handlers and the right wing of the party. It's easy to assume we've been 'sold out' considering how the 'leadership' responded to a full frontal attack by the Right.

- It's true that it's 'never too late'. But it may indeed be 'too late' if we continue to allow Bush* to get away with some of the worse crimes ever committed against this nation and people.

- Stopping a few right wing judicial hacks will mean little if the government remains under the control of those who think Democracy and 'rule of law' is a joke and only applies to the little people.

[bain_sidhe]

54. "Stopping a few right wing judicial hacks

...will mean little if the government remains under the control of those who think Democracy and 'rule of law' is a joke and only applies to the little people."

I have to disagree. It is those right-wing judicial hacks that decide the court cases in ways that continue to erode our rights and our voice. If they have the courts, citizens have NO recourse - not against fraud, voting or other kinds, not against violations of their civil rights, not against the power of corporations to destroy their lives.

The judiciary is appointed for life. Politicians aren't. What you are saying about realizing that the RW isn't playing by the rules is important, but, IMHO, it's equally important to realize one of the ways they are stacking the deck in favor of their continued power is by stacking the courts with people who will rule to uphold that power, regardless of the merits of the case before them. That fight matters at LEAST as much, in the long run.

[Cleita]

39. I'm really concerned with the elections. Could they eventually

proclaim some kind of military state of emergency where elections would be postponed because of imminent danger? From then it's a small step to no elections and welcome dictator Bush. I mean if they stir up a possible nuclear emergency with say North Korea, couldn't this happen?

[Q]

40. Frankly...after 2000 and 9-11...anything could happen...

...all they need is control of the American media...which they already have.

- The election could indeed be 'postponed' in the middle of a 'national emergency'. But under such circumstances they would probably bring us from a state of 'emergency' (which we're already in) to martial law.

- One thing is very clear: Democrats and indeed all Americans need to be wary and alert in the next year. The Bushies didn't go through all the trouble of stealing an election and pushing us into war just to let it all go with the transference of power to the Democrats.

[Tatiana]

42. The right has accomplished much of what they wanted to do.

And we will be feeling the reverberations for decades to come.

-Our federal treasury has been looted.

-We are running record deficits.

-Corporations like Halliburton and Bechtel have already been awarded billions of dollars in no-bid contracts which will keep their stock at a nice price for some time to come.

-We've invaded and occupied two countries in the Middle East creating an anti-America backlash that will be felt in that region for decades... even in the event that we experience our own "regime change" here in America.

-Lawsuits have been dropped by the EPA against this nation's most blatant polluters.

I could go on and on. It will take a long time to replenish our federal treasury and get back into a position where we can pay down the national debt run up by Bush. We can't get back the billions of dollars in kick-backs to Halliburton and Bechtel. Arabs in the Middle East will hate us, no matter if the head of this state is Bush or some other person. We destroyed their land. We are trying to steal their oil. We are murdering them. We can't take back all the pollutants going into our environment that have been sanctioned by this administration.

Yes, we are reaching the point of Civil War. But this isn't a geographical Civil War. It isn't North vs. South. It's the Sensible vs. the Insane. It's Selflessness vs. Selfishness. It's those who support aggression at all costs vs. those who value peace. It's those who don't have a problem with a one-person rules vs. those of us who believe in a government for the people, of the people, and by the people.

This is a war of right-wing, neoconservatives vs. EVERYONE ELSE (Democrats, progressives, libertarians, Greens, moderates, centrists).

I want my country back.

[Q]

43. Many on the left long ago realized what this country could become...

...if the RWingers ever got control of all the branches of our government. Now we know that we were right but there's little we can do about it as long as we're unable to unite the LEFT against the Bushies.

- Perhaps our country DOES need to see how horrible things can get before they rise up against Bush* and those like him.

[Tatiana]

45. I think we're at that point now.

Things are horrible. Florida in 2000 showcased us as a Banana Republic. The war in Iraq has shown the world that under right-wing leadership, we are incompetent imperalists.

Under RW leadership Americans are unemployed or underemployed. We barely have enough money for necessities. We're ridiculed and reviled by other nations (Britain excepted). The change has been gradual, the progress slow, but I do believe we are experiencing a drift back towards the left and realizing we need more competent leadership in ALL branches of government. The votes will be there for our side.

The only question is, will they be counted?

[quaker bill]

46. well stated

I could not agree more. These boys will be worse out of power than in. It requires no strategic genius to monkey-wrench the process. It requires no facts either.

Obstruct and destruct. "Investigate" lies and slanderous accusations. Do anything to cause delay and disorganisation.

Our system of government is set up on the notion that people of goodwill will work toward the highest public good, even if they come at it from different directions. If it is your intent to simply prevent the opposition from governing, the system is rife with opportunities and tools to get the job done.

2004 will be "give no quarter, take no prisoners" time. If we win the election, the battle will have only just commenced.

[Q]

49. This is how government was intended:

Quaker Bill: "Our system of government is set up on the notion that people of goodwill will work toward the highest public good, even if they come at it from different directions. If it is your intent to simply prevent the opposition from governing, the system is rife with opportunities and tools to get the job done."

- America was more like this when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. There was always friction between the parties...but both sides were willing to compromise for the good of the people. This is not to say that government was perfect...but you didn't have one party trying to subvert the Constitution and outright obstruct the other side from governing.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. Here's how they'll do it...

1) Sometime after the Democratic Party has nominated their guy for President, the so-called "terrorist" will launch a major attack. My guess is that it wiil probably take place on the west coast this time in some major population center;

2) The Terror Alert rating will be set at the very highest level. Remember that under the highest Alert level, nobody can be on the streets without a good reason...all schools and offices will be shut down and no one will be able to get in or out.

3) The Bushies will declare martial law to react to the "crisis", and to drive home the point home even stronger. Anyone caught on the streets can be detained indefinitely (Patriot Act) in camps that have already been prepared.

4) The new so-called "Quarantine Act" that was signed into law last year in response to the SARS scare can also be used to house those people detained during the "crisis".

5) The 2004 elections will be cancelled until the "crisis" is over. Of course, the crisis will never be over as long as the war against terror is being conducted.

Welcome to the new Nazi Reich.

[Dr Fate]

48. Yes, it does appear that some DEMS are still in denial...

...thery need to start taking on the media more- pointing it out when THEY lie.

I'd love to hear a DEM ask Tim Russert or whoever-

DEM: "You refused to cover this story(pick a lie, any lie) about Bush- perhaps you would like to explain to me and the voters why you kept this important information for them..."

WHORE: "But this is not about me..."

"No- Tim, this IS about you- It is YOUR JOB to tell the news, not mine...I should not have to be the one to bring this up- that is YOUR job and I think the people deserve to know why you refuse to do it..."

[Q]

50. It's clear that the American media was complicit...

...in the takeover of the US government. All they have to do now is play 'dumb', act patriotic and pretend to be the 'free' press we've all read about in history books.

- But what happens when the 'free press' doesn't do their jobs and favors one political party over another?

[kentuck]

52. Dr Fate, I think that is the front line...

There is a war going on between the so-called "liberal" media and the unapologetic conservative media. As the "liberal" media pretends to be balanced reporters, the conservative media pretends to be nothing other than conservatives with a message from God. I think we should put them on the defensive whenever possible...

[Q]

57. No matter what anyone says...

...a coup doesn't happen without the direct help of the media. Someone like Bush*...a lifelong drunk, failure in business and family, doesn't become the most powerful 'man' in the world without the help of the 'imagemakers'.

- And Gore...an honest and good family man who had devoted his life to public service...isn't PREVENTED from becoming the most powerful man in the world without Bush* being helped by the 'imagebreakers'.

- Those of you new to politics need to go back and study the Nixon and Reagan administrations. This is when a concerted effort began to destroy Democrats and manipulate the media. Nixon's dirty tricks team used to call their actions against Democrats 'rat-f**king'.

[Dob Bole]

55. Didn't know we needed their permission to govern. (nm)

[Q]

56. It's not a matter of 'permission'...

...but both parties need the 'cooperation' of the other in order to govern unimpeded. For instance...eight years of false accusations, rumors, hearings, witch hunts and investigations against Clinton/Gore kept them and the Democratic party on the defensive and tied up providing millions of pages of documents to the inquisitors.

- Certainly you don't think Clinton was impeached because of a blow job?