Why do we care so much about Free Republic?

[Selwynn]

I swear I get so sick of hearing about what the "freepers" are doing on these forums twice as much as I would if I just went to the free republic boards.

Who cares?

Why do we take this ultra-right wing website and make it our focal point? Why do we act as though this group of far right nutballs are representative of all non-democrats? I have several moderate republican friends who are on the fence. Why is it that we don't gravitate towards more moderate websites and organizations and attempt to really persuade with honest and respectful discussion and dialogue?

I get the feeling that a lot of people around here just like to "hate" other people. And politics is the last safe place for hate. Because in politics, its ok if you hate the other guy, because you're right. I hear a lot of talk about uniting the country, but I don't think a lot of people here really want to be united. I think we're happy being miserable, happy having someone to hate and rant about.

If none of that is true, then why can't we simply be issue focused and committed to ignoring and not being bated by the extremists, and instead reaching out to the 80% of people who are not in the far extreme but who are either uncertain or moderate? If I never heard about the stupid free republic site again it would be too soon. There is nothing of value there, no people Interested in thoughtful discussion. Why can't we stop revealing aimless anger - just enjoying finding the next person or thing to rant and rave about - and instead start funneling our dismay at the state of the nation into more positive things.

Why can't we represent a politics that is BETTER than that of free republic folks, or other extremists? Instead of matching hate for hate, intolerance for intolerance, stubborn refusal to hear another point of view for stubborn refusal to hear another point of view, why oh why oh why oh why can't we show the world a BETTER alternative?

Instead of returning hate to the hater, why can't we represent a world in which plurality and understanding are valued so highly that they are even valued for our enemies? Why can't we represent a better way towards greater unity to the public?

You know the problem with anger? Is people who LIKE it. I've seen all these posts about how there needs to be more anger at things. That may be true, there may need to be more indignation that moves us to action. But the problem around here are that a lot of people just LIKE being angry, the LIKE hating republicans or "repukes" or "freepers" or "bushites" or whatever else. The enjoy having an outlet in a forum that says "hey its ok to be angry and hateful - have fun."

We should be upset about the disastrous state of the nation right now. And we should be upset when right wing extremists say ugly ignorant things. But we shouldn't like it. We shouldn't just get off on being pissed off all the time. It's total baggage. The only possible value that anger has for our situation is when it stirs us out of complacency and towards positive action. Right now it seems like all its really doing now is just making us more angry, more extremist, more polarized, more fueling our anger and disdain at everyone who doesn't agree with us for little other reason that because we like being angry at "them."

And I think that's sad. I also think that we will bear as much responsibility for the continuing downfall of the country as any republican unless we change.

[ComerPerro]

1. Ok, you got me

I have a sick fascination with that site.

Besides, I don't think hatred for FReepers is a bad thing. At least, not towards some of them.

Hell, I wish I had a nickel for every time I have read a post over there discussing killing Democrats or liberals, or read a post condoning genocide against muslims.

[PaDUer]

2. It's always best

to know what the enemy is doing and up to being that they're so many psychopath's in that group..
Also, look at the freepers who join DU to pretend to be members and all of a sudden, their true colors emerge and disrupt the threads.

[izzie]

3. It is sort of fun. and you get 2 sides which does not hurt.

n/t

[Fixated]

4. .....

But they aren't "the enemy." They're nobodies with computers.

[liberalhistorian]

7. EXACTLY!

We have to be aware of what their type is thinking and saying, and what they're up to because, like it or not, there are a lot of Americans like them. Most Americans, frankly, do not think like DUers and we need to understand them and recognize what we're up against and try to figure out ways to get through to them. We cannot just keep preaching to the choir.

[Mountainman]

5. freeperville is a weather vane

I go there to enjoy their grief whenever we score like blocking the conservative judges.

And I think they are dwindling in posts and content. More and more of the news is not in their favor and rim job I think blocks it. It was a good source of breaking news but is not worth spit in that vane any more.

That means we are gaining in power and support.

[DrWeird]

6. Now what pisses me off?

DUers who yell at other DUers not to say certain leftist ideas because it might piss off the freepers.

I've been here since 90% of americans thought George W. Bush was doing a great job and if DU isn't the place to express your leftist views then nowhere is.

[Forkboy]

8. Right on!

:thumbsup:

[Selwynn]

21. No, but I probably "know" what pisses you off

It has nothing to do with "expressing" your left views. Its when what is being express is so far from leftist ideals that its not even funny. It's when what's being express has no substance, only the entertainment that comes from having a target for venom. It's when people are more content when they're pissed off and paranoid at everything and every one then they would be in a political climate much less polarized.

In other words its when the indignation isn't noble, but is just people who enjoy being pissed off and someone or something. There's a lot of rebel without a cause syndrome these days.

[William Seger]

9. Jezz, everyone's a pop psychologist these days.

"But the problem around here are that a lot of people just LIKE being angry, the LIKE hating republicans or 'repukes' or 'freepers' or 'bushites' or whatever else. The enjoy having an outlet in a forum that says 'hey its ok to be angry and hateful - have fun.'"

Angry? Guilty, your honor! Hate "repukes" and "freepers" and "bushites"? Guilty as charged! LIKE it? Whoa, there! That's a mighty broad brush you're waving.

I don't mean to offend you and I'm sure your liberal bleeding heart is good :-), but I think the general sentiment that you're expressing is pretty much the "way we were" for most of the last 15 years, during the rise of Limbaugh and his uncountable clones and the Gingrich "movement": Oh, let's not descend to their level; let's be nice, and let's ignore them and they'll eventually burn themselves out; the American public won't respond well to all that hatred and negativity, and we'll do better to rise above it.

And what happened? Well, seems to me we got our teeth kicked in, and our asses kicked 'round the block, that's what! Now, they control all three branches of government and most of the media, and they're still not satisfied; even as they're dragging the country into the shitter with no real opposition, they're still kicking us every time someone dares peep up with a contrary word or filibuster against nominating another radical, incompetent judge.

Don't get me wrong: I think the key in 2004 will be coming up with a strong positive message, not a message of hate. But you, like most of the media, seem to be ignoring all the justifiable reasons for all the anger and hate on the left. Yes, we need to turn those reasons into a positive message, but that shouldn't be hard to do.

But I'm getting tired of all this "be nice, don't be angry" stuff. There'll be plenty of time for that when we get our country back. Remember, we're fighting for the best interests of the deceived and delusional FReepers, too.

(edited typos)

[Kanary]

12. Well, William

I didn't read it that way at all. In between "Roll Over and Die" and "Fight Freepers to the Death" there is a *WHOLE* lotta room for creative problem-solving.

Kanary

[William Seger]

15. Well, Kanary

Actually, I agree with a lot of what Selwynn posted. I quoted the part I disagreed with.

[Kanary]

20. Thanks for the clarification.

That's not how I was reading your post.

Ummm, it's also good to let people know where you agree.

Kanary

[Selwynn]

23. That's not what I said

I didn't say "be nice, don't be angry." What I am saying is basically if your anger, better spoken of as indignation, is a temporary emotion that leads to positive action or proactive change then that's a good thing, and its something this country and this party desperately needs. However if you're anger is just aimless pissiness or rage, and especially if its just self indulging and mindless. It takes far less sophistication to just be pissed off at everything than it does to take a deep breath and get involved in working towards actual change.

I think its ridiculous to act as though Democrats lost anything because they were "too nice." It has nothing to do with nice. It has to do with letting nothing, not even anger, distract from a relentless commitment to and focus on the issues that matter. The Democrats got beat because we spent all our time trying to look just like republicans, only we're not as good at it - and thank god, we shouldn't want to be good at it.

We didn't get beat because we refused to compromise our ideals and beliefs along the way. We got beat because we compromised everything and at that same time we were totally selling out as a party, the far left was blaming everyone and everything but their own party and getting more and more pissed off about the apparent state of helplessness they found themselves in.

You seem to dismiss the only point I am making, and that is anger without a message is self-defeating. Anger for its own sake is self-destructive. Now, anger that is used as a catalyst for change, anger that is combined with an over-arching sense of compassion and concern for the lives of are fellow people is a fantastically powerful force for change.

You seem to say "yeah yeah I know we need to turn anger into positives but..." and you indicate that "this shouldn't be hard to do." Well, where is it? I mean DU boards should be teaming with the transformation of all our anger into action and positive messages, etc. But instead, there's very little of that. Instead its like a little club for angry pissed of leftist extremists (of which I am one) and we don't want to try to win anyone over to our point of view, we don't want to engage others that disagree with us, we don't want to think of ways to better unite the nation, we just want to post every article we can find about how horrible the Bush boys are and oh lookie what the "freepers" did today, and guess what Rush said, and on and on and on. Its like we reveal in digging up what the radical right is doing and then going off in our own angry morally superior snobby way about it. We would rather do this than actually contribute towards you know, a more... more... you know.... more equitable society, rather than do nothing but click refresh and spew out more mindless aimless pissiness.

You bet its ok to be angry - a better way to say it would be that it is "necessary to be angry in order to motivate action and fight for positive change. But I stand by what I said - there are people who simply like being angry. They like having someone to lash out at with no real accountability or responsibility to do anything. It makes them feel better if they can blame and hate everyone else for what's wrong rather than looking in a mirror and thinking serious thoughts.

We don't win anything by becoming everything that we are against in order to win. It doesn't matter of a guy with a "D" next to his name wins the white house if in order to do so he/she sacrifices everything that matters along the way just to win. Winning is important, but its not as important as standing for what's right, always, without exception. That is how you win in the long run, rather than just in the short term. We didn't start losing to republicans we were fair minded and open to dialogue, seeking positive change, and action from our anger rather than just mean spirited and hateful dissention. Nope, our losing had nothing to do with being "nice" and getting walked on. It had to do with being COWARDS and getting walked on. Behaving with maturity and decency, acting like a more sophisticated human being, turning raw anger into constructive and positive action has nothing to do with being passive, or quiet, or rolling over for anyone...

But having a backbone and standing up for what's right doesn't mean that we have to keep acting EXACTLY LIKE the people over a free republic, and that's what I'm criticizing. Right now you can very frequently just substitute a few key liberal words with conservative ones, and posts made on these boards sound identical to free republic posts. That's too bad. And its a large part of the reason the coun

[William Seger]

25. Here's what you said:

You said a lot of things, and as I told Kanary, I argee with a lot of it. Here's where I disagreed:

"I get the feeling that a lot of people around here just like to 'hate' other people."

Well, I think you must be reading a different board than I am if you think that's the predominant theme here, but more to the point, I think you're making unsubstantiated assertions about other people's motivations.

"You seem to dismiss the only point I am making, and that is anger without a message is self-defeating."

No, I'm just not agreeing that that is an accurate characterization of most of the people or most of the postings on this board.

"Its like we reveal in digging up what the radical right is doing and then going off in our own angry morally superior snobby way about it. We would rather do this than actually contribute towards you know, a more... more... you know.... more equitable society, rather than do nothing but click refresh and spew out more mindless aimless pissiness."

Sorry, but I think "digging up what the radical right is doing" is important stuff, and I rather thought that your post was "going off in (your} own angry morally superior snobby way about" how you didn't approve of how some people react to it.

"I mean DU boards should be teaming with the transformation of all our anger into action and positive messages, etc."

Sorry again, but I think there is quite a bit of that. And I think that Democrats can be proud that all of our candidates do have very positive messages -- although the major media would rather focus on the snipping and infighting (which I would certainly like to see less of). But if there's not enough of positivism on this board to suit you, well, maybe you should try leading by example instead of browbeating.

[JanMichael]

10. I don't give a rat's ass about them.

:shrug:

[DemVet]

14. Agreed.

[Kamika]

11. I kinda agree

Even though some of their posts are just weird or funny , it doesnt beong here.. the mods should ban any posts here that links to a Fr post.

If anything they should be posted in the lounge

[ant]

13. but they're so funny!

Really, if you can't laugh at the absurd...

And to be honest, I'm one of those people not interested in being "united." I'm not interested in finding common ground with liars, thieves, racists, and/or misogynists. I can find common ground with some Republicans, mostly the libertarian types, but freeper types are just beyond that. We need to point at them and laugh.

And I, for one, can do that while simultaneously focusing on the issues that need attention. I'm a great multi-tasker.

[sendero]

16. "what you mean we, paleface"

I could not care less what freepers think, I've read enough of their posts to know that almost to a one they are intellectually dishonest if not plain stupid. Ruled by fear and hate rather than reason, their words betray them every time.

One year it's the black helicopters and the UN, the next its Hillary. These people seem to be afraid of their own shadow. They sit behind keyboard and make all sorts of threats, but when there is a rally or protest they can barely get a turnout of a dozen.

I'll be happy when I no longer see "look at the freeper" threads here. They just have nothing to add to the debate.

[JohnLocke]

17. A Fellow Amnesty Member?

Selwynn, I noticed your logo is the AI Symbol. You're a member?
So am I!

[Zorra]

18. Everyone likes the slapstick comedy at freeperville.

It's sort of like watching "The Three Stooges".

Except freeperville is a lot scarier because the illogical posts at FR represent the ludicrous opinions of the many Americans that have been brainwashed by Faux News and RW talk shows.

[leftofthedial]

19. feel better?

It's like driving by a car wreck.

Some people rubberneck, some don't. But everyone gets to slow down.

[neuvocat]

22. The freepers led an all-out assault on this site

when it first opened up. They did anything they could to shut this place down because they didn't like the fact someone was calling out Bush on the fradulent election.

They have the story about it somewhere in the archives I think.

[Selwynn]

24. So what? They lost, we're still here.. time to move on to things that...

...matter.