CBC TV alert: Was first moon landing fake? (Of course not, but...)

[Newsjock]

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyesunday/darksideofthemoon/about.html

How could the flag flutter when there's no wind on the moon?

During an interview with Stanley Kubrick's widow an extraordinary story came to light. She claims Kubrick and other Hollywood producers were recruited to help the U.S. win the high stakes race to the moon.

... A subtle blend of facts, fiction and hypothesis around the first landing on the moon, Dark Side Of The Moon illustrates how the truth can be twisted by the manipulation of images.

With use of 'hijacked' archival footage, false documents, real interviews taken out of context or transformed through voice-over or dubbing, staged interviews, as well as, interviews with astronauts like Buzz Aldrin and others, Dark Side Of The Moon navigates the viewer through lies and truth; fact and fiction.

* * *

Sunday night at 10pm and 1am EST on CBC Newsworld. (Not on Newsworld International in the U.S., alas.) This sounds fascinating -- and another example of how the Canadians view media literacy as a necessary skill.

Of course the moon landing isn't fake (well, almost certainly), but that's apparently not the point of this. I'll know more after it airs.

[Terwilliger]

1. certainly not

it's not even a question...we landed on the moon! really!

[Maple]

3. And conquered

Iraq!

[StClone]

12. Moon shots Fake, Reagan Real

The genius of it is clear.

[George_Bonanza]

2. Should be interesting...

As for moon landing doubters, there's plenty to evidence on the web by educated scientists to refute FOX's claim of fraudulent landings, etc. Honestly, how can one trust FOX with a documentary?

[Maple]

5. And rule

the world!

[HEyHEY]

4. It was faked

Brought to you by the same people who lied about the world being round :dunce:

[Bozola]

6. What a fuggin load of crap.

Phil Plait & crew at www.badastronomy.com routinely beat-up these Apollo Hoax sh*theads.


The forums are always entertaining.
Forums:
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/index.php


Debunk page:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

[Maple]

7. And think

well of yourselves!

[Newsjock]

8. No, no, they're not saying it was faked

They're saying that it's easy to use the media to convince people it's fake. (Or, at least, that's how I read the pre-show text.)

So they're going to start with a premise that's known to be false, and then spend an hour showing you how they could make you think otherwise if they wanted.

That's the part that fascinates me.

[DUreader]

13. If you read that stuff as well as you read this thread

I won't even click the links

[Kurt Remarque]

9. jfk quote

We choose to fake going to the moon. We choose to fake it in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

[Maple]

10. And have been

conditioned since birth to believe ....

[stickdog]

11. Where is the incontrovertible evidence that we landed on the Moon?

Surely the Hubble telescope can prove this.

Or the rocks that were supposedly brought back. Surely, their complete sterility could prove this? Oh, you say all the samples have been contaminated?

http://www.space.com/news/spaceagencies/apollo_moon_rocks_010326.html

Didn't we supposedly put some reflectors on the Moon? Surely, we could provide a simple demonstration of this.

How about a cosmic ray analysis of the return capsule?

The debunkers don't impress me one bit. Why don't they simply stop debunking and provide the naysayers with incontrovertible proof?

[VTMechEngr]

14. Flag flutters without wind, simple.

Its Vibrations. Wave theory. Take a string and produce a rapid up and down motion in one direction, notice the "flutter." The Astronaut was twisting the pole back and forth into the soil. Since the flag was connected at the top by a pole to hold it upright, this back and forth motion produced the waves. Really simple. Only idiots could believe otherwise. I bet they aren't science majors.

[Terwilliger]

15. Thank you

Go Hokies!

[newyawker99]

27. Hi VTMechEngr!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wuushew]

16. Don't forget the fake soviet lunar mission

Two N1 Moon rockets appear on the pads at Tyura-Tam in early July 1969. In the foreground is booster number 5L with a functional payload for a lunar-orbiting mission. In the background is the 1M1 ground test mock-up of the N1 for rehearsing parallel launch operations.







I guess even during height of the cold war both countries had time to pull an international space version of Candid Camera.

[ironflange]

22. KA-BOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

And a few days later, KA-BOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!

At least they gave it their best shot.

[happyslug]

17. Many years ago I heard of this hoax

And one expert said there may be so basis to it for he could have faked Apollo's 11's landing on the moon with the technology of the time period. All he needed was an ability to transmit radio waves from the area of the Moon to the earth.

THE FOLLOWING IS WHY THE PICTURES OF THE LANDINGS MAY HAVE BEEN FAKED. I do not know if their were, but I personally have my doubts that NASA faked them but the analysis of why NASA may have faked them are interesting.

As to faking ALL of the Pictures of ALL of the Moon Landings, that would have been IMPOSSIBLE given the technology of the time period. With Apollo 14 and subsequent missions, the pictures taken on the moon IMPROVED greatly, to the extent no one could have FAKED the picture of the subsequent landings (with the technology of the time period). Thus this expert’s said he opinion that it was possible to fake the moon landings only apply to the landings of Apollo 11 and 12 NOT to the Landings of Apollo 14, 15, 16 and 17.

If you remember the moon landings, the pictures of Apollo 11 and 12 were very choppy, so to save film (at least that is what NASA said). Instead of doing a "normal" picture per minute rate, the moving camera was set at ½ that rate so it could last twice as long. The problem is with this choppy product you had the ability to fake the pictures by filming them on earth and than having the Astronauts radio them back to earth as Apollo 11 orbited around the Moon.

The landings of Apollo 14, 15, 16 and 17 are not as Choppy and thus, given the Technology of the time period, impossible to fake. It is only Apollo's 11's and 12's pictures that could be faked, the pictures of Apollo 14, 15, 16 and 17 were not able to be faked with the technology of the time period (they can be faked today, but they were transmitted from 1969- 1972 so the ability to fake them today is NOT the issue).

The rationale given for “Faking” the mission was that getting the Lunar lander ready took longer than expected, and as such NASA found itself facing the unpleasant fact that it could get the Apollo craft to the Moon in 1968, but NASA just could not land till January 1971. JFK had said a man on the Moon by the end of the Decade, not a man AROUND the moon. Thus NASA decided to fake the first three missions (Which were 4-5 month apart) and than wait 9 months after Apollo 13 to finally land on January 1971.

Now the need to get the Apollo Craft to the Moon was needed, for the Russians, Europeans, the Japanese and probably even the Red Chinese could trace the radio waves from the Moon to the Earth and thus if the transmission came from any other place OTHER THAN THE MOON, any of the four could have exposed the transmission as faked. Thus the transmission had to come from the area of the Moon.

The reason for the fakery was to preserve funding, Nixon had won in 1968 and he hated the Moon Mission (he preferred missions of a more military or commercial value than going to the moon and had already cut NASA’s budget in 1969). Thus if NASA delayed the problem, Nixon may have been able to cut funding for it in favor of items Nixon liked. Thus NASA had to get a man on the moon and thus faked it for the first two missions (Apollo 13 never attempted to land do to the malfunction of the Capsule which lead NASA to cancel any moon landings).

Now I do not know if the above is true, but I like the experts comment, while he could have faked the pictures of the Landings of Apollo 11 and 12, he could NOT have done it for Apollo 14, 15, 16 and 17. The cameras were all sped up to normal speeds and that normal speeds for the cameras and the activities of the Astronauts while being filmed made it impossible to fake on the earth, they had to be filmed on the Moon.






http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo.html

[Silverhair]

31. Baloney!!! You are negleting the doppler effect and also that

the moon subtends about a half degree of angle. A radio signal from an lunar orbiting craft would be obvious. Try again.

[KFC]

18. I'm not really sure that airplanes can fly.

How the hell can a multi-ton metal object fly through the sky? I see these things occasionaly, but I'm pretty sure they are fakes.

I'm also suspicious about boats. No way such huge objects can float. Especially when they are made of metal!

[Newsjock]

19. OK, this has already aired elsewhere this year

Usually under the title "Kubrick, Nixon, and the Man on the Moon."

It's rather amazing to watch, since media-savvy folks clearly see what's being done in terms of using material out of context and such.

Do a Google Groups search on either title of the documentary, and you can see how it's played elsewhere -- and how some people have indeed fallen for it.

And, finally after 75 minutes, the CBC just said the whole thing is fake, a "spoof."

[Wonk]

20. I thought it was pretty funny, and well done overall.

A nice exercise in critical thinking skills. Some of the real quotes taken completely out of context had me busting a gut.

[Newsjock]

21. Some comments from the (French) production company

Long link here

Originally, in 2001, director William Karel wanted to make a film on Stanley Kubrick, one year after his death. While talking to his widow, he discovered the extent of the collaboration that existed between Kubrick and the NASA. It turns out that Kubrick and other Hollywood producers contributed largely to the popular success of the US space programme by turning it into a show (design of astronauts’ suits, colour fo the Apollo capsule, positioning of the rocket launcher in Cape Canaveral, etc…)

Starting with this true story, we came up with our own… What if…? What if Nixon - under pressure to put the first man onto the moon before the end of the decade – had asked for a film of the landing on the moon be produced just in case the Apollo 11 went wrong and no pictures would be available…

... This is not an ‘ordinary’ documentary… Its intent is to inform and entertain the viewer, but also to shake him up, make him aware of the fact that television can get it wrong (intentionally or not).

more

[gate of the sun]

23. I keep hearing about this

I have some newspaper from that day I'll have to take them out and look at them.

[jeter]

24. I'm not sure gravity exists either

Now that I think of it. Is the world really round? Is the sky really up? Does the American continent really exist? Or do we all just live in a Matrix, controlled by machines...GO NEO!!!!!!!!!

[Wonk]

25. This was a mockumentary, btw, for anyone who didn't catch that.

An exercise in critical thinking skills, in other words.

[corarose]

26. When I was a kid I remember hearing that a coke can

Was in the background rolling across the stage opps did I say stage I meant the Moons ground.

[Wonk]

28. Quicktime video online here

204 M

[Lisa]

29. hilarious broadcast!

I started to twig when I noticed that some of the principals had unexpected European accents. By the way, that part about the American secret agents in perfect costumes and accents -- except that they were a bunch of black and white guys trying to impersonate Vietnamese villagers -- was just weird enough to sound true!

I wonder how much they told Rummy and Kissinger? Surely there would be release forms and such ... I imagine that a fair amount of the footage was recycled from other shows, though. (Mismatched backgrounds between the speakers even though they were supposed to be in the same room ...)

Re: Aldrin, I could imagine him being in on the joke, after all that fuss about the guy who was following him around, pestering him to tell how they faked the landing.

[HFishbine]

30. If

you could observe something man-made on the surface of the moon, would that be evidence enough that we went there?

An international group of scientists has pinpointed how many inches separate the Earth and its moon -- 15 billion, give or take an inch.

<snip>

The effort used mirrors placed on the moon's Earth-facing hemisphere by Apollo astronauts and by one of an unmanned Soviet missions. Telescopes used for beaming laser light at the moon are located in Texas, Hawaii, France, Germany and Australia.

Laser radiation beamed to the moon from one of the telescopes on Earth bounces off one of the lunar mirrors, returning to the same telescope about 2.6 seconds later.



http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9712/17/measuring.moon.ap/