I find the belittling of Dean supporters to be disgusting

[KaraokeKarlton]

I can't speak for other Dean supporters, but I have to say that this is really turning me off to politics. This is the first time I've ever donated to a campaign or volunteered and gotten involved. The Democratic party NEEDS all the new people Dean has attracted to politics. So why in the world are some of the supporters of other candidates so insulting to Dean supporters. We are told that we don't really know our candidate and that we have been fooled. That's nonsense. The fact of the matter is that those who keep repeating that are the ones who don't really know our candidate. I also hear this intense fear of Dean being the nominee because some THINK he can't win the general election. This is more nonsense. The only way Democrats are going to regain strength and power is if they try something NEW. The same old same old is NOT WORKING people. My only concern about the primaries is that the DNC and DLC will pull a fast one on the voters and prevent the candidate the people want from getting the nomination. If this happens, I'm done lifting a finger to help the Democratic Party. This corruption in politics is exactly what turns so many people off. Whoever the most people want as the nominee MUST be nominated or I suspect it is going to lead the way for the demise of the Democratic Party. Voters were betrayed once, and if it happens a second time there will be deep resentment, bitterness and outrage.

To the supporters of other candidates...vote for and support whoever you want and leave me and others to do the same minus the insults, condascending attitude and attacks on our intelligence...you NEED our votes and support if you care about your party.

[Ficus]

1. Some people

including Dean supporters are insulting as well. There is more than enought blame to go around.

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. Dean supporters aren't innocent, but different in what they do

The Dean supporters who behave badly are mostly taunting when Dean does well or another candidate does badly. That's not very nice, but I haven't seen Dean supporters make such broad sweeping insults of the supporters of other candidates. I've seen plenty react to those insults, myself included at times.

[sangh0]

13. Yes, they certainly are different

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=49666&mesg_id=49666&listing_type=search#50723

I haven't much talk about "pod-people" and "Bush-bots" from the other candidates supporters

[Ficus]

17. I'm a DK guy

and I see broad sweeping insults of him all the time. And it mostly seems to come from Dean people who have little more to say than "he looks like an elf" or something.

I just suggest getting a thick skin - because politics is a rough business. Believe me, I have a immediate family member who is in our legislature here and I don't like to hear negative things about her, and most of the time I could just get mad but I would rather just use that energy to do some good for the world.

I hope you'll stay around even if Dean isn't our nominee. We'd love to have you.

[wndycty]

22. Here Here

I actually like Dean but I am going to be hard as hell on him. But I am also hard as hell on my candidate, Clark. It seems a lot of this grows from many of Dean's supporters not having a thick skin. I'll tell you to be a Clark supporter you have to have a thick skin.

[bigendian]

2. THIS is what bothers me.

"If this happens, I'm done lifting a finger to help the Democratic Party."

[KaraokeKarlton]

9. I'm not a Democrat, I'm an Independent

I've been looking for a reason to change my registration to Democrat, but since I support Dean I honestly don't feel like the party leadership or some who support other candidates want me in "their" party. I'm pretty hard to offend, too. So, if I feel this way, you can be certain many more do.

[bleedingheart]

3. I worry that all this animosity is going to screw the Democratic Party

We need people like you to be a part of the system!... Unfortunately it still takes a thick skin to be involved....that will never change.

[Jacobin]

4. If you think this is bad, just wait until Carl Rove starts in on him

I'm a Dean supporter and have been from day one. I send him money and actively support him.

The Dem bashing of Dean is slight and inconsequential compared to the deluge of mud that Rove will unleash with his $200 million campaign warchest.

I say this is a good time to vet Dean and harden him for the massive onslaught of repuke hate and lies and spinning from both the repukes AND the media that we are about to witness.

I hope, after the nomination process is finished, that Dems will support Dean or whoever the nominee is. Until then, keep your powder dry and consider this a time for dealing with and getting used to the hate campaigns that will soon be starting.

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. I'm not talking of criticism of Dean

I'm talking about the insults levelled towards Dean supporters.

[Jacobin]

15. I think the media and Rove will slur the names of his supporters, too

Ya gotta keep in mind that Clarkies and Kerryites are very upset that Dean has sooooooo much grassroots support and so many volunteers willing to spend time and money to get Dean elected. It's humbling to them, and some lash out.

Forgive them. While they might not send Dean money or work for him, hopefully they will bother to go pull the lever for Dean on election day.

Does no good to whine about them.

[Skwmom]

12. The problem with this approach is that

Dems are notoriously bad at vetting their own. Unfortunately, the Republicans do not have this problem

[Jacobin]

18. Ya mean like Bob Dole in 1998?

I don't buy that for one minute.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Some people don't know...

The meaning of the phrase "substantive issues".

Oh well, form the circular firing squad, Sgt...

[Hep]

After this primary

I'll vote for whatever D wins. But I'll tell you right now, I support Dean 100% with time, money, and effort. IF anyone else wins, all they get is my vote. I have absolutely no motivation to actively support anyone else, especially after the way certain people here lash out at my friends.

[DianeK]

30. i also support dean

mostly with my money as i don't seem to have any time anymore..but i promise this..whoever gets the nod will get my support in whatever way i can give it..the motivation? to get this country moving in the right direction..in 2000 we witnessed a bloodless coup, in 2004 we need to reverse that coup...nothing in this country ( and i don't even think it is being to dramatic to say that nothing in this world) is more important than that

[madfloridian]

7. Condescending comes to mind.

I very much resent it. Yes, the party needs us. It needs all of us, and this ugliness here is really hurting the image of the party in general.

I have been called whiner, crybaby, fool, and worse. It is tiring.
It is more than tiring, it is scary that Democrats are doing this to ourselves.

There are two Dean supporters who tend to use "rub it in" tactics. Most of us do not attack other candidates. We can't, as we are too busy defending ourselves.

I don't think it will change. Some think this is good for Democracy. I don't think it is.

[CWebster]

8. Since he is out front

The others attack and he takes the heat. Same dynamic works for his supporters. That is why the Democratic frontrunner has be strong-willed and determined, he not only has to go up the Republican machine, he has to cross the minefield of the Republican lite territory as well.

[La_Serpiente]

10. I am not going to be critical of Dean

Let me just say this.

We had this earlier thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=418128

Hey Dean supporters -- Notice all the NEW Clark supporters?

By NEW, I mean those people posting who have just joined--you can tell because they have about 10 or 20 posts only. I've noticed this for about a couple weeks now--I think the Clark supporters here were getting paranoid being in the minority and have recruited their friends. Just my theory, of course.

Noting aganist Clark, but as the days drone on, he looks like a weaker candidate in my opinion, someone who will be molded by the DLC-insiders and try to make kissy face with the Repukes. That's a sure way to not even carry the state of Massachusetts!

To me, I find that post both condescending and pointless. Since when did we have the social construct of status on Democratic Underground?

How does one think we feel when we hear that (I am not a Clark supporter, but I just felt this needed to be said)?

You have a point. There is sometimes unwarranted bashing of Dean. However, there is a difference between legitmate critcism and criticism that is just off the wall. If I said that under Dean, 20 percent of the people became uninsured (this is not true, it is just an example), would that be legitimate criticism? I would think so.

However, if I said, "Howard Dean killed someone while he was in office", that would be totally inappropriate because it is simply false.

This is not a Dean vs. Clark, Kerry vs. Dean, or whatever. My point is that sometimes, we just have to "suck it up" and stand up for our candidate. We here at DU have debate and discourse regarding politics.

[KaraokeKarlton]

16. This isn't about criticism of Dean, or any candidate

It's about the way supporters of Dean are being insulted and belittled.

[wndycty]

24. A lot of times they bring it on themselves. . .

Should Dean get the nomination I will have no problem supporting him, however it will be tougher to work with the Dean supporters (not all) who have one of those you are either with us or against us attitudes.

[madfloridian]

23. "We here at DU have debate and discourse regarding politics."

Not lately. We used to have more of it. I condemn whoever starts a thread with untruths and slander in it.

There are some here who only post things against Dean. They should stop and think about what they are doing.

Lately there is a lot that is not debate and discourse, but just plain angry attacks. The thread you linked to was an example of what should NOT be.

There were two threads yesterday that started with total untruths about Dean. They were finally locked, but only after all the usual jumped in to have their say. The person who posted one of the threads had to know they were not posting the truth. They were not banned, their post was not deleted. It is still sitting there. Unless someone reads the whole thread through, they will think the subject line is true. It is not. It is an untruth. Thus a new rumor starts its way around the internet. Straight from DU.

That worries me. It would worry me if it were about Clark or Kerry or anyone.

[tom_paine]

14. We shouldn't be ripping each other like that

I have also been very disconcerted at the situation regarding candidate-bashing.

Let's save our bashing for the real enemies of America...the Busheviks!

[Ripley]

19. I agree with a lot of that.

I, too am an Independent, but will support whoever gets nominated.

But I too fear the insiders are going to ignore Dean and choose one of their hacks even if Dean wins all of the primaries. If that's the case, then there is no democracy left here.

[Tyler Durden]

20. Unlike DEAN supporters belittling Clark supporters...

Which I have to assume is FINE, from your "Paid Political Annoucement," and this poster's comments:

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=418128

Regarding people who support other than DEAN being for "rePUKES," counter to the rules of the road.

Glass Houses?

When I say something "belittling" about you or Howard Dean, let me know, and I won't do it again. HOWEVER, if I POLITELY point out someone's wart, I don't expect to be called a Quisling for the Republican Party.

[UTUSN]

21. More Like Self Defense Than Attacking DEAN.

KERRY's my choice, no secret. But I try VERY hard not to attack other Dems, and outright defend ALL Dems when any of them are attacked by wingnuts. And I usually just skip the flame threads and bite my lip when they can't be avoided, and my lip is really really BITTEN.

But offer an OPINION or a SUGGESTION about DEAN that carries the LEAST bit of LESS-THAN-100% approval and DEAN supporters fly back with "you DEAN-HATERS", and "DEANophobes" and "fear of DEAN".

Say it isn't true.

If some of us here are so young that we believe we are the VERY FIRST idealists to come down the pike----some of us here AREN'T.

We've been down this road before, as recently as 2000, with a group being holier-than-thou, ideologically "pure", and my-way-or-I-take-my-marbles-home.


******QUOTE*****

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=714737

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/16/fashion/16IOWA.html?ex=1069477200&en=488cc696e0d7a4db&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

"We're all friends, despite what your boss might have done on Medicare,"
Words to live by.
*****UNQUOTE****

[Hep]

27. Self Defense? You mean like our invading Iraq was self defense?

I know it has happened in every permutation, but if you can search, please tell me how many Clark bashing threads were started by Dean supporters versus how many Dean bashing threads were created by Kerry and Clark supporters in the last week. I think you're "self defense" claim will hold as much water as a thimble.

And of course, this whole "he started it" stuff is something I remember from when I was 6. If you think bashing a candidate is wrong as I do, don't do it. Surely that can't be hard, right?

And of course as much as you TRY not to bash dems, you can't keep yourself from painting some of us with an awfully broad brush:

But offer an OPINION or a SUGGESTION about DEAN that carries the LEAST bit of LESS-THAN-100% approval and DEAN supporters fly back with "you DEAN-HATERS", and "DEANophobes" and "fear of DEAN".

Say it isn't true.

It isn't true. There's a lot more nuance to this than you apparently are willing to accept. It's disturbing that you think that the political climate at this board can be summed up the way you've done it.

[Tyler Durden]

28. Very well put.

It's funny, but it is always among fellow leftists that I find the worst vitriol describing in great detail my naivete in supporting some obvious right wing stooge.

We really do eat our young here.

[Cocoa]

25. that almost sounds like a threat

be nice or we Dean supporters are going to drop out of the party.

This reminds me of a statement a while ago, possibly from Dean himself, about how his supporters are not transferrable, how if he loses the nomination they might just not vote.

By the way, your perceptions are skewed. Dean has a whole lot of support here.

[Hep]

29. Rest Assured

I'm a D and will be voting D no matter what. This isn't a game.

Many Dean supporters are non-transferrable. I might count as that. I'll vote D, but if Dean loses the nomination, I can't say that I will do anything for the candidate other than vote for him.

[democratreformed]

26. I don't know why

some people would not want you in their party. I, too, am registered as an independent. Supporting Wesley Clark has made me realize that it is the Democratic party that I want to whole-heartedly support.

I attended a local Dem meeting last week and was welcomed with open arms. Then, I was chastised for not yet changing my registration which I intend to do.

Basically, I am hoping that your support for Dean will translate into wider support (an work) for the Democratic party as a whole. I am already gearing up for our next governor's race. Time to take back Arkansas too!

If your support for Dean DOES translate into a wider-reaching foray into politics, I am happy for you. Because, I am sure enjoying being a part of it all.

Basically, I hope that you judge the Democratic party by more than what you have seen on here.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. I am locking this thread...

4. If you wish to start a vanity thread (ie: a discussion thread in which the sole purpose is to share your personal opinion) you must state your opinion in a non-inflammatory manner which respects differences in opinion and facilitates actual discussion.

Thanks,
Have a good day everyone,
MrsGrumpy
DU Moderator