Howard Clinton by Weissman and Mokhiber

[AntiLempa]

As an environmentalist I am always skeptical of politicians. I was hoping that some Dean supporters would be willing to verify or debunk this article. If it is true, what were Dean's motives.

Thanks in advance!

Howard Clinton?
by Robert Weissman and Russell Mokhiber; November 15, 2003
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=37&ItemID=4505

Howard Dean is a man with strong Clinton-esque tendencies.

He's a self-described triangulator.

Say good words about the environment.

Take some positive action.

Schmooze with the environmentalists.

But when push comes to shove, don't offend the powers that be.

Mark Sinclair is an senior attorney with the Conservation Law Foundation in Vermont.

Sinclair was dismissed in 2001 from Dean's Council of Environmental Advisers because of his criticisms of the Governor.

Sinclair says that two utilities in Vermont -- Green Mountain Power and Central Vermont Public Service -- along with IBM -- control the state.

"Dean is in the pockets of the utilities and of IBM," Sinclair told us. "Whatever the major economic interest, he's beholden to them."

More http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=37&ItemID=4505

[asjr]

1. dean

Sour grapes?

[BayCityProgressive]

2. Didn't Clinton

nationalize more waterways and land for conservation than any other president? From what I recall, for having a GOP legislature he did pretty well and I am not even a huge Clinton fan. He also was cleaning up toxic sites at I believe 180 a month or year or something. under Bush that has gone down to 40.

[AntiLempa]

6. and the article?

What is your take on the article?

[blm]

3. Dean is a longtime corporatist masquerading as a populist.

Amazing how the corporate media has controlled and promoted that perception of him as a populist.

btw....Howie is more of a centrist than Bill. Clinton was a centrist with the core of a liberal, while Dean governed as a centrist with the core principles of a deregulating Libertarian.

[AP]

11. Exactly.

[papau]

4. Largest employer outside of State Gov is Ins Co - Nat'l Life of Vermont

Dairy farmer power is huge.

Mark Sinclair is over the top as senior attorney with the Conservation Law Foundation in Vermont - a bad choice of persons to interview for unbiased facts.

[AntiLempa]

5. and the article?

How is Sinclair over the top? What is your take on the article?

[papau]

7. With 500,000 cows, and 500,000 people, green field use for a plant

site is just about a given. Indeed there are areas of the state that no one claims so they are State jurisdiction only.

But I agree with Elizabeth Courtney of the Vermont Natural Resources Council. " "He very much knows what he thinks," Sinclair says. "He doesn't listen very well. He's very sure of himself. He shoots from the hip a lot. He doesn't believe in surrounding himself with a lot of strong leaders. He's smart, so he seems to know what the public wants to hear." " is pretty much the way I know him - but I do not see that personality as a problem - and I doubt that anyone who has worked directly with the CEO of company with more than 100 employees would find Dean tough to deal with comparatively.

Unlike Bush he can say "I was wrong" and move on to a new policy. And he is open to logic. What Courtney misses is the fact that jobs are so scarce in Vermont, that getting jobs and keeping jobs is the Gov's job one.

As to the quality of the article - it is well written and uses 2 of the better qualified critics of Dean as sources. I love Vermont, and the people of Vermont, but I found that many were very, very, serious about their causes - to the point that friends on the left not only could not be joked with about those causes - which is rather reasonable - but you could not express dislike for a comment that a GOP'er had made about the cause, because you were repeating the anti-cause comment. And that is over the top for me.

I am for anyone but Bush - ABB

And that includes Dean.

[sangh0]

9. Missing the point

From the article:

"Instead of telling that developer to build in an industrial park, he showed them a greenfield and allowed them to build in a greenfield," Sinclair said. "Convert farmfields into pavement. Once again, when there was a conflict between sprawl and big development, the Governor Dean sided with big development."

Dean could have, but didn't, insist that IBM build an industrial park. If he had, other companies wouldn't have to convert greenfields. Instead, they could move into the IBM-built industrial park, reducing sprawl.

[AP]

10. However, Sinclair is pretty good person to talk to if you want to know the

politics behind his dismissal.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. Well we know that Dean isn't "anti free trade"

We know Dean spent his time as Chair of the Governor's Association pimping for Nafta. We know that he and the rest of the pro-Nafta politicians made sure that NO environmental or labor protections were included in the trade agreements. We know that Dean and his ilk pushed for fast-track authority to make sure labor and environmental protections wouldn't be included. We know that Dean agreed with "free trade" even though GATT make environmental and labor protections ILLEGAL.

We now know that Dean is indistinguishable from Bush on the matter of "free trade", along with Clark and Kerry.

Our alternatives to the "free traders"? Gephardt, Kucinich, Sharpton, Moseley-Braun.

[AP]

12. Edwards isn't a free trader either.

He's voted to protect NC mnfg jobs when they were threatened by free trade, and he has said as much in the debates.

[AP]

13. "IBM wanted it, so Dean went along."

Despite his professed love of rail transit, Dean pushed development of a major highway project around Burlington, even though he knew it would be disastrous for land use planners.

IBM wanted it, so Dean went along.

Why did IBM want it?

According to Sinclair, IBM has a major facility in the area and Big Blue wanted to make the taxpayers pay for the road improvements.

This is one thing that Bush's EPA and Dean agree on -- build the beltway around Burlington. The environmental community in Vermont is opposed.

The Burlington highway fight is typical of Dean. He actually cares about light rail, and prefers it to more highways, according to Sinclair. But when push came to shove, he didn't dare stand up to IBM's demands.

[mrgorth]

14. Let me speak on this!

We vacation in VT this summer near Smuggler's Notch. I got to be pretty good friends with the owner of the place, he's a republican. Anyway, he couldn't stop criticizing Dean because, to him, he pandered to environmentalists (Trustafarians as he called them), in doing so lost that highway and tons of IBM jobs as a result. He also criticized all the time spent on the civil unions thing. Point is, you can't please everyone all the time and I think Dean did the best he could. Actually, I'm pleased you told me about the rail stuff. I like him more yet!