Question for people who lived in DC on 9/11

[brainshrub]

Did anybody actually SEE the airplane go into the Pentagon? Are there any pictures?

Did any DUers HEAR the airplanes on 9/11 as they passed overhead? Just curious.

[crimson333]

1. my dad and his boss were at the pentagon that day

and said they saw it

[brainshrub]

2. Wouldn't they have been inside?

Did your Dad say he saw the plane as it entered the building? Was he outside?

[theorist]

3. Did they

feel an explosion that may not have been consistent with an airplane collision? Did they see any other planes in the area?

[crimson333]

4. honestly I did not ask him

he just told me about being there. He didn't really go in to it

[brainshrub]

6. Could you ask him?

I'm thinking of writing a short essay debunking some conspiracy theories about 9/11.
Some people are saying that if it really was a plane that hit the Penatgon why didn't anyone see it? Why aren't there pictures from the hidden cams that SURELY must be installed on the Penatgon?
Just ask him for me if he HEARD the plane. I would think that anyone who was in the building and saw it coming would be dead. I don't have to talk to him personally, I am looking for other sources closer to home.

[wtmusic]

10. There is video footage of it

Not very good quality--'convenience store' variety

[rman]

26. the security cam footage?

it doesn't show anything that is recognizable as a plane, though as you say the quality (of the copy that's available on the net) is so poor that it is not conclusive either way.

[soothsayer]

5. No,but I recall a live tv interview with a guy who saw 2 planes

at the pentagon. He was stuck in traffic on the highway right beside the pentagon. He said one hit it, and another one swooped low behind it then climbed and flew away. A few days later, I heard one other witness say the same thing. They thought the second plane was also going to hit.

I suppose that could support the missile theory---that this plane (and he did say it was a military style plane I think) fired a missile that folks thought was a plane.

Still doesn't solve the mystery of where the other hijacked plane and its passengers went, tho, if they didn't crash into the pentagon.

[brainshrub]

7. Another plane?

People saw TWO planes near DC? Okay...lemme get my tinfoil hat. :tinfoilhat:
I haven't heard that one before!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. Yes, two planes ... no tinfoil needed

I just posted this below, I talked to an eyewitness a week after 911 who saw two planes, although I have never heard this in the media. I think the "no plane" story is just disinformation to cloud the fact that the military was trailing the planes and were ordered not to shoot - meaning that 911 could have been prevented, but wasn't. At least that's my take on it.

[JackRiddler]

27. Hey if you're such a brilliant debunker...

Why don't you demand the REAL evidence?

The FBI confiscated video footage from a gas station and a Sheraton Hotel. Both had good angles of the attack.

The Pentagon itself has loads of video cameras around the area. (Around the entire perimeter, of course.)

Why have we only gotten the 5 video stills with the wrong timestamp (Sept. 12)? These are of terrible quality, you can't really see a plane. Why not the actual video? Why not the hotel and gas station videos?

Why has the Pentagon released only a few dubious photos of wreckage that may or may not belong to the plane? The supposed scrap of Boeing skin on the lawn could be a piece of a truck, or a helicopter. Surely there were a couple of tons worth of recognizable Boeing parts strewn about - they should just publish those photos. Closeups.

Same goes for the bodies, grisly as it is. And the autopsy reports.

Since AA77 crashed into the Pentagon, the government can put all the conspiracy theories to rest immediately by producing the evidence.

It would be such a smart move! These conspiracy theories have taken over France, Germany, probably most of the world. Can we afford that? Why not put the silliness to rest by being open? A win-win situation.

Now, if you write an article, it will only encourage those who disagree to argue the opposite case. Of course you will convince no one. Most likely stir up suspicion. You might even reach people who never even heard this outrageous conspiracy theory, and inadvertantly infect them with the idea. (They'll ask, why does he feel so compelled to prove what everyone told me was obvious?) All in all, guaranteed to backfire.

If you REALLY want to debunk the theories, the best thing you can do is to demand full disclosure of everything the government already knows about 9/11!

If you're in the New Jersey area, you can go to Madison this week and demand the 9/11 Commission get all of the documents.

[theorist]

29. Just an addition here...

The FBI confiscated the gas station video about 3 minutes after the attendant witnessed the Pentagon crash. The hotel employees watched the video before it was confiscated (on 9/13, I think?). To the best of my knowledge, interviews with these employees have not been published. I'm be interested to know what they saw on the video.

[WoodrowFan]

8. A good friend saw it

A good friend of mine working outside on a construction crew near by saw it hit and saw NO other aircraft nearby. You are incorrect when you saw 'nobody saw it hit". There were many witnesses. Another DUer has a long list of eyewitnesses. You'll have to search past threads to find out who, I don't remember his name.

[brainshrub]

9. Thanks! Will do! :D

If you remember the name or find the post, let me know here or via a PM.

[montanacowboy]

11. I just saw the smoke

rising from across the river on Capitol Hill - I was in my office when it hit.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. I personally interviewed an eyewitness

I personally interviewed an eyewitness to the Pentagon crash less than a week after 911. He said there was a military aircraft following the airliner until the last minute, when the military aircraft veered away and the airliner hit the Pentagon.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. It was a C-130, and it went on to be

in the vicinity of the crash of Flight 93.

"The national airport instructs a military C-130 (Golfer 06) that has just departed Andrews Air Force Base to intercept Flight 77 and identify it. (Guardian, 10/17/01, New York Times, 10/16/01) Remarkably, this C-130 is the same C-130 that is 17 miles from Flight 93 when it later crashes into the Pennsylvania countryside. (Minneapolis Star Tribune, 9/11/02, Pittsburgh Channel, 9/15/01) The pilot, Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien, claims he took off around 9:30, planning to return to Minnesota after dropping supplies off in the Caribbean. He later describes his close encounter: "When air traffic control asked me if we had him (Flight 77) in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was. That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn't seem to know anything." O'Brien reports that the plane is either a 757 or 767 and its silver fuselage means it is probably an American Airlines plane. "They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that." (Minneapolis Star Tribune, 9/11/02)"
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/dayof911.html

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

17. yes, a C-130

that's exactly what he told me.

[Minstrel Boy]

13. A DC researcher I respect,

John Judge, dismisses the challenge that it wasn't a plane:

"How do I know Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? First, local news immediately interviewed and broadcast eyewitness accounts of the plane going in. I have since interviewed many local people who watched the plane and even ducked as it flew so low overhead. The Pentagon has not released footage of it, and the local news media did not catch the moment as they had in New York City. It was not for lack of knowing it was coming, they had told us that a good 35-40 minutes ahead.

"Second, I was convinced I had lost a dear friend and fellow assassination researcher that day, who was a regular flight attendant on Flight 77 from Dulles to LAX. Thankfully, she was home with her ailing father and was not killed. She was taken with other ground crew and attendants who worked that route to see the damage at the Pentagon, and she recognized parts of the plane she had flown so often.

"There was rubble and remains despite your claims. She was shown autopsy photos of her fellow crew members, including the severed arm of her best friend at work, which she recognized from the bracelet she wore.

...

"Until we know, we cannot act. And if we act on rumor and impulse then we are no less a slave than those who live in the denial that the propaganda machines promote. So, be cynical and question things, but be analytical and scientific so you can approach the truth when you speak. Three truths don't make a fourth just by mentioning them. All lies, in fact, depend on having elements of the truth in them for verismilitude as its called. Read, don't repeat what you last heard. And if you are going to be more than a theorist, then give conspiracy the respect it deserves, and prove it. Good hunting, and always come clean."
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/notAllCequal.html

[brainshrub]

16. This is great!

God I love DU!

It's true that we have to be very careful of rumors about 9/11.

As much as I dislike Bu$h I cannot make myself belive that he, or his administration, would knowingly allow 9/11 to happen. Perhaps it was incompetence, or underestimating the nature of the threat...but can any administration be that evil?

Wait. Don't answer that.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. As Rumsfeld might say,

"Can any administration be that evil? You bet!"

:evilgrin:

Believing an administration can be that evil isn't something I invited, and neither is it faith-based.

Unlike many LIHOPers/MIHOPers, on September 11th it didn't even occur to me that the attacks were anything but an intelligence failure. It was, I thought, simply a tragedy. But the events which followed and everything I've learned since - and I've learned a lot - has convinced me that 9/11 was actually an intelligence success.

I like that piece by John Judge I quoted above, and return to it often, because it disputes the disinformation that "conspiracy theorists" are merely peddling unsubsantiated rumours, and frequently outrageous ones at that. He plainly sees the signature of conspiracy in 9/11, but he regards the "no-plane-hit-the-Pentagon" story as a silly distraction which discredits serious research.

Here's more of his remarks:

"I'm willing to be called a conspiracy theorist as long as you call everyone else a coincidence theorist. The U.S. military-industrial-intelligence state and its police forces were intimately involved in the murders of John and Robert Kennedy and Dr. King, and we are still working hard to get final release of their own massive documents and files that relate to that history.

"We have convinced all but the most unthinking elements of the American public that these murders were not the work of the patsies assigned to them, but of the highest levels of government. We have done so partly by hard and exhaustive forensic and medical and historical research, and partly because the same national security state has wanted us to know, without a full confession, that they did it. It was a warning and a way to try to kill our hope for change.

"Similar diamond-hard research needs to be applied to the facts and events of 9/11 and since, as well as the history that led up to it. Rumor is not research, and we only sully the truth by jumping to believe the sensational. Cynicism is healthy, but informed cynicism is the only way to avoid paranoia and confusion."

[theorist]

19. Great Post!

Thanks for the link.

(By the way, my username is not in reference to conspiracies.)

[theboss]

18. The plane passed over my apartment complex

I live about three miles south of the Pentagon, on the side that was hit. My landlady heard it.

Also, my friend's mom works in the Gannet Building in Arlington. She claimed to have seen it.

This is what people don't understand. There are planes that fly over 395 near the Pentagon constantly. National is right there. So, who knows what anyone saw.

I do know this. If something else hit the Pentagon, then you need to account for the missing plane and no one can do that.

[Norcom]

21. And all the debris

If a bomb or some other munition was used to blow up the pentagon, how did they get all of that plane debris to the pentagon and spread around without anyone noticing?

There is no question that a plane hit the pentagon. And anyone who thinks different is in need of serious mental health services.

[rman]

28. what debris?

photos of the lawn taken shortly after the crash and shortly before the lawn was covered with sand and grit, show no debris.
The only debris of the pantagon crash that i saw was one small piece shown on TV.

[felonious thunk]

20. I'll chime in here too

A friend of mine was driving 395-S at the time. He had just taken the Washington Blvd exit, heading toward Arlington Ridge Rd. In a convertible with the top down, he watched as the plane appeared to his left, and flew almost right over top, and hit the Pentagon. He'd of course slammed on his brakes and watched, as had all the other traffic. If you are familiar with that area, you'll know that the ramp to Ridge Rd is about the highest point around the Pentagon, and he saw it all. It was a plane.

[Gulf Coast J]

22. Wow...

I live about a mile away from there now, but lived in Texas on 9/11. Everytime I drive past the Pentagon I think about how messed up it would have been to see the plane go into it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. And the conspiracy theorists cannot answer the question:

What happened to the passengers and crew of Flight 77, if it didn't crash into the Pentagon?

One conspiracy theory says that the passengers and crew were taken to a secret location and killed. But think about it. While you may be able to convince American military or even intelligence agents that a certain group of foreigners, especially dark-skinned foreigners, are the "enemy" who need to be "eliminated," it would be nearly impossible to convince such personnel that a random group of ordinary American citizens, including children, had to be killed. The soldiers or agents would look at the terrified passengers, imagine their families and neighbors in the same position, and refuse to kill them.

You'd have to recruit a bunch of outright sociopaths for the job, and then, being sociopaths, they could be easily tempted to spill their story for the right price.

No, the idea that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon is pure X-Files stuff.

[Solomon]

25. I .live in DC but didn't see the crash. I'm still skeptical about the

story since the firefighters spent at least twenty minutes putting out the fire and the WALL THAT WAS HIT WAS STILL STANDING! It didn't fall until about twenty minutes after the crash.

I saw pictures which indicate there were no flight 77 debris at the crash site. No doubt something hit the Pentagon. I just don't believe it was the plane that they said it was.

The pentagon is under 24 hour surveillance. Clearly they can show us footage of what happened but they won't. And ironically, they won't need too because the psychic assault on americans from showing the WTC crashes over and over makes it unnecessary to show or prove anything else.

I suggest you find the Hunt the Boeing site. Has a lot of good pictures and questions there.

[onehandle]

30. Eyewitness Accounts

This is just a sampling of the many, many people who witnessed the Airliner hit the Pentagon.

Flight 77 Crash at the Pentagon, Sept. 11, 2001
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77w.htm

This covers everything else...

Claim:   The damage to the Pentagon on September 11 was caused by something other than a hijacked Boeing 757's being crashed into its side.

Status:   False.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm