bush just issued a statement on the Mass GAY marriage

[bearfartinthewoods]

he's taking on the issue. says marriage is a sacred union and will seek to work with congress to protects it.

the line is drawn!

[Sagan]

1. Of COURSE he's taking on the issue

Chimpy would love for the 2004 election to be about gay marriage. What could energize his nutjob reich-wing base more than that?

[htuttle]

2. Is he planning on outlawing divorces?

.

[opihimoimoi]

4. He is playing the odds, the numbers

Smart move but is it
the Wise move??

Only time will tell

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. depressing numbers according to this poll

this was posted elsewhere:

CBS News Poll. Nov. 10-13, 2003. N=1,177 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (total sample).

"Would you favor or oppose a law that would allow homosexual couples to legally form civil unions, giving them some of the legal rights of married couples?"

...............Favor Oppose Don't Know

ALL ............39.... 53...... 8
Republicans ....23.. ..71...... 6
Democrats ......45.... 45 .....10
Independents... 46.. ..46...... 8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://pollingreport.com/civil.htm

[radwriter0555]

6. That's right. If marriage is sacred, then outlaw divorce..

best solution going!

[ComerPerro]

26. No shit

If marriage is so fucking sacred, why do so many people get divorced?

[radwriter0555]

8. Interesting to note, throughout dominant european countries, marriage is

becoming obsolete.

There is little or no wedding trade scams like the USA.

No hallmark weddings for the french, italians...

[DemBones DemBones]

29. I don't know how true that is about marriage becoming obsolete

in Europe. Among Italians we know, two couples in their thirties have married in recent years, and they've mentioned other friends who had married, or were about to marry, as well. Italians typically live at home with their parents until they can afford a place of their own and afford to marry, usually in their thirties. They don't understand why Americans want to leave home so young. They remain close to their families and the people they grew up with, rarely moving away from where they were born.

One couple had a big, traditional wedding, with the bride wearing a traditional white wedding dress and the groom and other men in tuxedos. The other couple had a small wedding, probably because they preferred to put their money into fixing up their apartment, knowing they'll live there a long time.

Italy definitely has a very low birthrate but one couple has had two babies already, and the other couple has had one baby (and a miscarriage).

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. Now Nader can't say there is no difference between Reps and Dems!

Sure, the Republicans and Democrats agree on "free trade", the rights of personhood for corporations, the need to trade with authoritarian communist regimes like China, and "free market" solutions to all of our problems.

But the difference is clear - the Democrats support gay marriage, and the Republicans do not. Glad we got this one figured out.

[ErasureAcer]

7. Only Kucinich does...get yours facts straight.

[bearfartinthewoods]

13. i just heard that in 1996 he voted against it

everyone grows.

[foreigncorrespondent]

36. Most of the dems support...

...support civil unions, NOT gay marriage.

[CO Liberal]

5. It's Time For the "Log Cabin Republicans" to Disband

Come on over here, guys. There's room for you in OUR tent.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. there is?

What makes the Log Cabin Republicans Republicans? The same racism and classism of other Republicans? Do we really want our tent to be big enough for people who want to be Republicans, but can't because they are gay?

[mlawson]

28. I agree; who wants them?

I always suspected they are repukes, solely for tax cuts and other money status issues. Anyone who turns their backs on their own liberation groups for money, are indeed WHORES in my book.

There aren't that many of them, anyway. :-)

[ozymandius]

9. Bush issues statement on gay marriage issue - "I am a bigot!"

I understand that this could become a campaign issue for the Republicans. Hooray! Let's help them bury themselves.

[Athletic Grrl]

16. We actually have Cheney on our side.

Scary, isn't it? :scared: The in-fighting will be fun to watch.

[AntiCoup2K4]

35. I would fucking hope so

The only thing worse than a Repuke homophobe is a Repuke homophobe with a gay child (i.e. Phyllis Schlafly. Or possibly St Ronnie)

Kudos to Uncle Dick for being on the good side for once.

[rucky]

11. Was there a "log in his eye" when he said it?

n/t

[soleft]

14. Ask Charles

[el_gato]

12. this will be a failure for them

it's not a good campaign issue except for our side

they already have the klan vote locked up anyway

[stinkeefresh]

15. bad idea, georgie

Its been clear for some time that civil unions is going to be one of the issues Bushco will use in 2004. I couldn't be happier, because I think the issue is a loser for repugs.

See, when they race bait, like with Willie Horton, they really do tap into certain American's fear of "the other". Many white repug voters see African Americans every day, but don't actually count any among their friends. So its easy to get people to hate and fear.

With the queer among us, its a different story, because most middle-right white people in this country have a gay person somewhere in thier own family. Someone they have holidays with- some one they love. Yes, they'll vocally denounce the lifestyle, but that doesn't mean they'll take too kindly to Bush spewing his hate at thier loved one.

Unlike minorities, gay people aren't a bunch of others who live in that other part of town, they are completely integrated into most neighborhoods and most families.

[oasis]

39. Exactly right. The Rev. Falwell's condemnation "perverts" will lose votes.

[drfemoe]

17. Sacred to who?

Did he run this by his veep yet?

http://www.house.gov/frank/samesexamendment2003.html
...When asked by Bernard Shaw to state a position on the subject of same-sex couples, Vice Presidential candidate Dick Cheney responded as follows:

“This is a tough one, Bernie. The fact of the matter is we live in a free
society, and freedom means freedom for everybody. We don’t get to choose, and shouldn’t be able to choose and say, ‘You get to live free, but you don’t.’ And I think that means that people should be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to enter into. It’s really no one else’s business in terms of trying to regulate or prohibit behavior in that regard.

The next step, then, of course, is the question you ask of whether or not there ought to be some kind of official sanction, if you will, of the relationship, or if these relationships should be treated the same way a conventional marriage is. That’s a tougher problem. That’s not a slam dunk.

I think the fact of the matter, of course, is that matter is regulated by the states. I Think different states are likely to come to different conclusions, and that’s appropriate. I don’t think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area.
...

[slater71]

18. This explains why Hannity had Falwell on.

Hannity had Falwell on talking about this same subject. Nothing like getting talking point memos. Anyway, Falwell says that incoming freshmen to his university that come from families with same sex partners have problems. He also said he councils gays all the time to change their ways and not marry someone of the same sex. Looks like Hannity spoke before his boss the chimp did.

[monarch]

20. Choosing Falwell's university is not a good predictor

of mental health.

[sable302]

19. oh, bad Bush!

This is a loser issue because it is so ideological at its core. He could choose to say that by allowing more gay 'special rights' we might eventually be forced by the liberals (Dean esp) to accept a sort of affirmative action for the oppressed gays or something like that. Such an arguement has worked for them in the case of civil rights and the ERA. But, for him to take a stand that marriage is SACRED and between a MAN AND WOMAN only just because God said so, is a loser issue that I hope will backfire big time.

[DebJ]

27. don't forget Bush IS God or was personally selected by God so he can

say that, you know. Just wish Bush would admit WHO 'his God' really is.

[adriennel]

22. this is good for us

maybe I'm too hopeful, but I think moderate Republicans will outnumber the outraged conservatives and Bushie will lose on this one. wonder what Dick thinks now that George has directly discriminated against his daughter. he's suspiciously silent on this issue.

[alfredo]

23. If marriage is sacred, then the government should not

be giving special status to married couples. If they want legal status, then they can have a separate ceremony at the courthouse.

[Cocoa]

24. bring it on!

The dems signaled that they are not going to distance themselves from the gay community, they had an Iowa gay men's choir perform at that dinner over the weekend.

The dems are going to win on this one, it's the GOP's choice whether they're going to go there.

[tsipple]

25. Can't Wait for the "Killer Amendments" in Congress

Let's have the Republicans vote against all kinds of wonderful amendments. Should be fun. :evilgrin:

[unfrigginreal]

30. Gay marriage is not an issue that will work in Democrats favor.

Do I approve, sure I'm gay, will my neighbors approve, nope. And those same neighbors really don't have a problem with my orientation, they just believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

[snippy]

32. I agree about "gay marriage" but not about "civil unions."

[unfrigginreal]

33. I agree with Civil Unions also n/t

[snippy]

31. Democrats need to emphasize Cheney's position on civil unions.

They should be asking every day whether Bush will replace Cheney on the ticket over this issue. I see three possibilities, all good.

1. Bush panders to the Reich wing fundamentalists. This would alienate many moderate republican and independent voters.

2. Bush rejects the Reich wing fundamentalists. This would drive them ballistically apeshit and some would denounce and reject Bush by staying home on election day.

3. Bush persuades some of the Reich wing fundamentalists to denounce and reject some of their bizarre hatred. This is so unlikely that it does not really merit mention, but it would be a good thing.

[MaineDem]

34. I loved this quote:

On the ordination of the gay bishop in New Hampshire, the Los Angeles Times comments with tongue in cheek:

"The actions taken by the New Hampshire Episcopalians are an affront to Christians everywhere. I am just thankful that the church's founder, Henry VIII and his wife Catherine of Aragon, his wife Anne Boleyn, his wife Jane Seymour, his wife Anne of Cleves, his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no longer here to suffer through this assault on traditional Christian marriage."

[karlschneider]

37. LOL! Who did that song eons ago "I'm Henry the 8th, I am, I am...."?

was it Herman's Hermits? My memory is fading. What year is this?
Who am I?
:D

[MaineDem]

40. Yep, Herman's Hermits

Back in an earlier life I met Peter Noone. :D

[tritsofme]

38. I think most dems will duck the issue

like they did with DOMA