So where's my ice floe?

[Cleita]

Apparently I am a mean bitter old lady who has my hand out for entitlements that I don't deserve because of making bad decisions in my life.

I should get a job or open my own business so that they don't have to pay for anymore Social Security or Medicare out of their checks. So I guess I should shoot the old guy and then myself so we are no longer a burden on society.

May I please beg to tell you that for my sixty-three years I have not only supported myself, but worked sometimes two jobs to make ends meet and help support others who couldn't.

I have worked hard to help improve the environment so that later generations would have clean air and water.

I have voted my conscience in every election since I was old enough to vote so that later generations would have a better life than we who have been through so many wars.

I have done my very best to plan for my and the old guys old age but sometimes fate throws you a curve ball and all the planning in the world can go haywire with just a couple of unexpected disasters.

However, I guess we are not even entitled to get back what we put into all our lives into Social Security and Medicare because we have become obsolete and societal parasites.

[MissMarple]

1. And that about sizes up the Republican world view.

At some point I hope some of them realize how counterproductive it is.
America's greatest resource is it's people. They are beginning to erode the principal that drives our prosperity. They are so short sighted I'm surprised they haven't trip over their own feet.

:hug:

[Cleita]

7. Read this thread. You will be shocked.

Start with post #28 on down.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=729189&mesg_id=729189

Mods, please bear with me. I am not continuing a flame from another post. This is a completely different matter that arose in the post. I think if anyone thinks that we oldsters are throwaway people we need to change their minds on this.

[rucky]

15. You kicked their butts, Cleita!

Even if us younguns won't get what we've paid in, I'll fight to see to it that the people who need it now get what they deserve.

:yourock:

That thread was a real Freep-for-all.

[Cleita]

17. Hey part of what we are fighting for is for you yunguns

to get what you put into the programs when your time comes. They won't take stuff away from us that easily, but they are trying to put in a two tier program that will finish the programs for you guys when the time comes if you let them.

[SahaleArm]

18. SS will never be a 1:1 system

I'll never see what I put in, and of course that's how it should be. SS provides a base level safety net not necessarily a liveable wage. The only way to make it a liveable wage is to increase SS tax each year. That still doesn't take into account rent, mortgage, health insurance, etc.

[Cleita]

19. It was never intended as a pension but

a safety net. Al Gore said it best when he said that SS is collected in today's money to be distributed in today's money. Consider what the purchasing power of the dollar is today compared to what it was fifty years ago is what makes this definition necessary.

[SahaleArm]

23. How to account for lack of buying power

I don't think we can raise SS tax at the rate of inflation. I'm also not sure we can we assume overall population growth will track with the rate of retiring individuals? Today many people are having less kids and the only way to counter the effect is more immigration. Gore is of course right because SS money doesn't appreciate in value like government bonds or other financial instruments; a dollar is a dollar regardless. There seems to be too much of an assumption that population growth will be linear or at least not flat. I'm not sure if that's sustainable over the next 100 years.

[wuushew]

22. Don't worry he is in a better place now

[ComerPerro]

2. Rethugs are assholes

Liberals are in a constant search for enlightenment.

Conservatives are in a constant search for anything, anything that will justify their hatred and greed.

[Lars39]

8. There must be conservatives masquerading as liberals here, then,

'cause some real assholes came out of the woodwork on Cleita's thread. They're either repugs in disguise, or they are young and think they know it all. Yeah, I just made an age-ist remark, but I'm also tired of seeing the voices of wisdom and experience like Cleita's being targeted by little shits in high school, or barely out of high school. Show some damn respect, folks.

[ComerPerro]

11. I am young and think I know it all,

But one of the things I know is that the small percent the government takes out of my check for Social Security is fine with me. I don't know why so many people complain about it, bitch about "lazy seniors" getting "free money".

[Lars39]

14. I don't understand the griping either, a safety net is necessary.

I probably misdirected my post somewhat, switching midstream to rant something that's been building awhile. Sorry. :hi:

[DrWeird]

3. Hey, at least you got to see yours.

I'll be paying social security, to you, for the next forty years. And I'll never get to see any of it.

[Cleita]

4. Don't worry, I won't live that long without the

medication I can't afford.

[DrWeird]

6. That's OK, I probably won't either.

Since I can't even afford insurance.

[Cleita]

9. Let's hope we get a President that will bring

universal health care for all to the table, but it won't happen as long as people think it's welfare or charity.

[HereSince1628]

5. I am beaming you good thoughts...

Of course that and half your daily food budget will get you and the old guy a cup of coffee and a bagel.

BTW ice floes are high risk during global warming...please stay on dry land...


I find this all very disturbing. Andrew Carnegie once said if he didn't give it away, the people would take it away.

When I read things like this I ponder "people power."
When the Dean of the Divinity School at Union College suggests it's time to go to the streets, I have to think the worm has turned.

[Malva Zebrina]

10. LOL--I just said about the same thing to a Repug neighbor

we are being put out on the ice. Not all of us are wealthy RV owners or wealthy land owners and I must say that the younger generation is definately not on our side--Repug or Democrat!!! AVoid them. They both have strong feeling against us and perceive us as taking something away from them. That we paid into what we thought was an insurance to keep us from getting destitute and that we worked all of our lives until the age of more than 65, makes no difference. We are taking SOMETHING away from the younger folks. It is reallysad that in this country the elders are not respected nor are they cared for by their kin. The Amish may do something like that, but usually it is the case the the children cannot stand it and will put the old ones out on the ice (nursing home) Too busy to cope with the old folks, much less the children.

What to do? Beats me. Chain yourself to the kitchen stove so they cannot take you away to a nursing home and then sell your home to pay for it? Suicide is another alternative when things get really bad and you face death in a nursing home, which is really no life at all. Be sure though that you will your children something and be sure that the suicide is not obvious--like you "accidently" slipped on the slippery, seaweed infested rocks and fell into the ocean which was freezing at the time and caused hypothermia in a minute.

[Kanary]

12. we parasites

I'm completely with you, Cleita!

I, too, have actually been called a "Parasite". (Another forum).Then, when I'm offended, I've had other so-called "librals" tell me to stop being so sensitive. It hurts, and it is demeaning. For me, it diminishes my already sagging energy level.

I'm glad to see that you mentioned what you have contributed to, besides a job. Those who are disabled and not able to work have also made contributions. Sometimes those contributions are more valuable than what could be given in a job.

For the rest of you: This is not a small issue. We have been called names and blamed for so many things in this country for so long that it erodes what's left of our self-esteem.

Thanks for posting this, Cleita!

Kanary

[Cleita]

16. Do they not realize that one day they will be in our shoes?

Do they not realize that since they can't see the future that all the retirement planning in the world isn't going to prepare them for what will eventually happens?

[Kanary]

21. To answer your question, Cleita

No, a lot of people, young or old enough to know better, seem to think that they are "in control". They still believe in that magic thinking that "if you are good, then things will go well for you".

Yes, I saw all the blaming on the other thread...."You didn't do that right", "Obviously you didn't handle your money right throughout your life, or you would have been in better shape by now", etc etc etc. I see that kind of thinking with so many things. It's the way to avoid thinking that maybe something could happen to you, too. It's a way to have the illusion of remaining "safe". Somehow it was always the fault of the person who is in need.

I don't want to paint all "younguns" with the same brush.... there are still some very compassionate people of all ages. However, this country has become so engrossed with the idea of "CONTROL" that so many people harbor the belief that you can outfox fate ALWAYS. Just t'ain't so.

People in other parts of the world, and people in other eras, didn't subscribe to such foolish thinking. People used to understand that not everything is under their control. People really used to know, in their bones, "Their but for the grace of god go I".

Some of these people with the control issues will be fortunate and go through life with only a few scratches. However, there will be some who will be in for a rude awakening. I hope they have the grace to admit they were wrong.

Kanary

[Malva Zebrina]

24. whoever gave them that notion that "If you are good, things will go well

for you"? I subscribed to that magical thinking--became a nurse--did good for my fellow man-for thirty five years-my religion told me I would be rewarded after I die for all of this "good" I was doing, and after a while, I realized that the religion was as much magical thinking as anything else I could dream up, and here I am wondering if my house will be taken away from me because I may suffer an accident or an illness that will deplete my meager savings (what am I saving anything for anyway?) and force me to go on medicaid, which will then take the house and the property from me in order to pay the bills which I could not pay, although I tried. I will try to avoid accidents, naturally, and will try my best to avoid becoming ill--and if I do, I will probably not admit it to anyone and just fade away while I am chained to the kitchen stove. LOL

This is really a very frightening scenario. I think the best thing to do is to make myself a martini now -- maybe a double

[Kanary]

28. Here's the key to that lock on your kitchen stove ^_^

Interesting, isn't it, that the more educated we become as a nation, the more "magical thinking" there is? You'd think it would be the other way around.

I learned about it a long time ago, when my son was kidnapped. I had tried to be a good person, a good mother, a good... just about everything, so I felt betrayed. Some reward, eh? Being kicked in the teeth. But what was the worst is people who responded by letting me know that I *MUST* have done something wrong to "deserve" that. How's that for cruelty? It hurt very deeply, and took years and years to realize that they did that in order to protect themselves from the same thing. Hearing of my situation scared the poop outta them, so if they made me at fault, and they were obviously such very good people, then they were "safe". I see the same thinking at work with these "entitlement" issues..... They're obviously above reproach, have made all the right decisions, could never do anything wrong, so....... all will be well for them.

Unless, of course, they invested in Enron.
~~Very Evil Grin~~

Not only do I *NOT* want you to fade away, Marianne, because I want the opportunity to get to know you --- But, I think it's time we refused to play that game, and go out with a bang! We've been silent for much to long.

Grab that red hat, lady, and let's cause us some ruckus! ~~gigglesnort~~

Kanary

[Cleita]

29. That's terrible.

People actually told you that it was your fault when you and your son were victimized? This is cruel beyond cruel. If people really got punished for their misdeeds Dumbya should be in the eighth circle of Hell by now.

I'm so sorry you had to suffer that on top of the suffering you were subjected to with the kidnapping.

[Kanary]

30. Yes, Cleita, that's what some people said

"What kind of a mother are you to let such a thing happen?"
You see, by making me the one in the wrong, they were obviously much better, so it wouldn't happen to them.

Same thing with the person who was telling you "You should have prepared for your retirement."

Now that I see what they are saying, I can see it in so many different places. By distancing themselves from you, they make themselves "Safe".

Now, if we can just figure out how to put that into a political message....

sigh..

Kanary, who really appreciates your empathy.... it nearly killed me at the time...

[Malva Zebrina]

25. whoever gave them that notion that "If you are good, things will go well

for you"? I subscribed to that magical thinking--became a nurse--did good for my fellow man-for thirty five years-my religion told me I would be rewarded after I die for all of this "good" I was doing, and after a while, I realized that the religion was as much magical thinking as anything else I could dream up, and here I am wondering if my house will be taken away from me because I may suffer an accident or an illness that will deplete my meager savings (what am I saving anything for anyway?) and force me to go on medicaid, which will then take the house and the property from me in order to pay the bills which I could not pay, although I tried. I will try to avoid accidents, naturally, and will try my best to avoid becoming ill--and if I do, I will probably not admit it to anyone and just fade away while I am chained to the kitchen stove. LOL

This is really a very frightening scenario I have made up. I think the best thing to do is to make myself a martini now -- maybe a double and go to bed.

[GreenArrow]

27. no they don't

Looking out for Number one is the prevailing philosphy in this country, even for self-defined liberals and Democrats. It's a selfish, selfish culture, with little sense of community other than for those most like oneself. As a culture, and as a nation, we have largely been divided and conquered, with little remaining sense of common heritage, connection or purpose.

[DebJ]

13. You have my support sister.

The answer is: give everyone the facts, voter registration forms, and then drive them to the polls!!! Sheez if Canada and the rest of the world can get insurance, we can too!!

[Cleita]

20. A kick for gray power.

:kick:

[ParanoidPat]

26. I'll see your kick.....

.....and raise this to the top of the page! :evilgrin:
Hang in there Cleita, We're not going to let this go without a fight!
You're in luck, due to the Republicans environmental record, the ice floes have all melted and they've screwed themselves once again. :)