Do I hear the drums of the coming culture war?

[jokerman93]

Even if Jackson is sick and needs helpthat doesn't excuse using him as another wedge of outrage for polarizing this country on (so-called) issues of sexual morality. Looking at the stats, obviously the Republican base of rabid and uninformed statist christian voters, is beginning to back slowly away from Bush. The Bushco cognitive dissonance that's happening on the Iraq war is impossible to deny at this point, even for the willfuly blind.

I think we may now be subjected to several weeks of emotionally disturbing details on this, or some other story. Politically, a fire has to be lit under the erupting culture war to distract us from the horrific failures of the Bush administration.

After thought:

Driving to work this morning I wondered why the Massachusettes legislation on gay civil union/marriage suddenly hit the news seemingly out of nowhere.

Public Radio International had a story on about the justices who put this legislation forward. Turns out they're Republican appointees. It might make many gay activists euphoric at the moment, but I have my doubts. (It most cerainly is serving as an emotional trigger event for mobilizing the brownshirts on the ground right now.)

So I say, here we go folks. Lot's of moral red herrings on the way. Dems need to refuse to be baited into allowing anything from distracting us from the many hard issues involving the criminality and failure of the Republican leadership.

note:
I posted this as a response to the thread on the Jackson raid but this is a slightly broader topic -- so I'm starting a thread on it.

[wryter2000]

1. If Jackson is guilty

If MJ is guilty of sex with children, that's no culture war. That's horrible and criminal to everyone. I hope no one will defend him. I certainly won't.

Furthermore, we need to be loud and strident that that sort of behavior has NOTHING to do with being gay or lesbian. NOTHING!

[jokerman93]

4. Yes agree with your feelings

but you're missing my point that this raid and the prurient details that may emerge from it, are about to be used to polarize this country. Do you want Michael Jackson to be used as the Republican posterboy to represent "all those sick gay hollywood liberals"?

I don't think so.

[Warpy]

8. I think you're missing the point

This whole foofaraw has been well timed, just to push the debacle of Bush's triumph in Britain (the original idea) off the news and onto the back pages with no pictures at all.

The mass media have been doing this ever since the chimp in chief was handed the office. Don't tell me you haven't noticed.

[Cocoa]

2. bring it on

they can do their moralizing, and that will give us a chance to explore Dr. Laura's pornography career, Bill Bennett's gambling, and Rush Limbaugh's drug addiction.

Any new moralizers that come along, we can ask them what immoral behavior is going to come out about them.

[zbdent]

3. Don't forget Giordano's begging to have sex with

a prostitute's pre-teen daughters.

Wait, isn't he going to have a same-sex relationship in prison?

[Cocoa]

5. I forgot Janklow's driving too

driving safely is as much or more of a moral issue than anything related to sex.

[cade]

6. wild bill

http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2fweb.ask.com%2fweb%3fq%3djanklow%2bbill%26o%3d0%26page%3d1&q=janklow+bill&u=http%3a%2f%2ftm.wc.ask.com%2fr%3ft%3dan%26s%3da%26uid%3d2c7787f02c7787f02%26sid%3d3c7787f02c7787f02%26qid%3d8D6398B90E95D5438E5AEA1C6FD34578%26io%3d8%26sv%3dza5cb0dea%26o%3d0%26ask%3djanklow%2bbill%26uip%3dc7787f02%26en%3dte%26eo%3d-100%26pt%3dWild%2bBill%2bJanklow%26ac%3d24%26qs%3d24%26pg%3d1%26ep%3d1%26te_par%3d204%26te_id%3d%26u%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fsiouxme.com%2flodge%2fjanklow.html&s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%2fsiouxme.com%2flodge%2fjanklow.html&o=0

[jokerman93]

7. Actually I disagree

I think these issues are red herrings at the moment. We should address them rationally, and get immediately back to the very real and dangerous problems of the hijacking of American Democracy and PNAC's Neverending War.

Of course, gender politics is an important part of the American ethos, but we're hemoraging right now. We've got to address the real problems here for the good of all American's of any stripe. We need to unseat this criminal administration, or there may no longer be legitimate poltical discourse on these very real issues of personal liberty.

First things first.

[Cocoa]

11. I agree

the dems are better off doing what they're doing, talking about the real stuff. But it's up to the republicans whether they're going to go the culture war way. If they do, the dems are ready.

[camero]

13. Tell them to

"Pull the log that is in thier eye, so they can see to take the sliver out of another person's eye." Perfect comeback to Rush, Bennett, et al, when they moralize.

[NoBorders]

9. Repugs planned to make this an issue

For the 04 election It came out a few weeks ago that the Repugs were going to mkae 'marriage protection' a key issue. Not sure how or if this Mass. case was brought up by Repubs, but it certainly servers their interest.

[SpiralHawk]

10. Red meat has been tossed into the center of the arena

And the partisans will tear at it and each other in a plug-ugly culture war climax.

This issue -- same-sex marriage -- will be kept front and center by the demagogues until at least Nov. 2004 -- an perhaps beyond.

Divide and conquer. It doesn't get more basic than that. America, you are going to have to reach deep to transcend this one.

[jokerman93]

12. Ohyae! Spiral Hawk

Reach deep indeed.

[rucky]

14. Our Wedge Issues

Race
Class
Gender

Why are they dead in the water?
The Republicans summarily dismiss them, and instead accuse us of baiting.

Why can't we do the same thing?

[jokerman93]

16. If you want your opponent to determine

the rules of discourse, then you react defensively and play his/her game.

You want to win? Control the discourse.

Offense. Offense. Offense.

Relentless offense with reality and truth.

[Cocoa]

17. dems are using class this time

Every candidate is talking about Bush's tax cuts for the rich.

[noonwitch]

15. Conservatives lost the culture war a long time ago

They started losing when Elvis started swinging his pelvis. They lost it the day John Lennon said "We're more popular than Jesus". They'll fight it out forever, but it's futile. They win a battle here and there, and in politics, they've won a few lately, only because 1. Gore played too nice in the election and 2. the media is currently helping the GOP.

[indigo32]

18. Well the way I see it

there is a difference between winning the culture war (which they aren't) and getting legislation passed that meets their views. And frankly #2 concerns me a great deal right now... because they ARE winning in that arena (even given that MA ruling)... and it hurts us all.

[LoneStarLiberal]

19. Please oh please let Roy Moore Run!

If there was ever an issue and ever an election for a rabid ticket splitting candidate to victimize the Republican Party, the issue is gay marriage, the election is 2004, and the candidate is Roy Moore.

Fresh off his 10 Commandments grandstanding, what a wonderful albatross around the neck of Bush/Cheney a Moore candidacy would be in 2004! He'd draw off the fundie vote from Bush and that my friends would leave Bush swinging in the wind big time!

P.S. If the anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion crowd insists on using rhetoric like "pro-family" and "family defense," we need to give them something to hide from by calling them what they are.

We need to refer to organizations like this in blanket statements as "American Taliban."

[starroute]

20. The answer is to make people focus on what affects them

What has the most direct impact on people's lives? Clearly, it's:

-- the economy
-- education
-- health care
-- the environment
-- social security and medicare

Compared to those things, all this culture war stuff barely impinges on people's lives at all.

I'd suggest that a major slogan for 2004 needs to be, "What Really Matters?"

The text to go with that needes to be something like: "As we chart the course this country will take in the 21st century, don't let yourself be distracted by fringe issues. Think carefully about what matters to you most, and which candidates will protect the things you really care about."

And the response of Democratic candidates to their opponents raising issues like gay marriage needs to be more or less, "Well, Bob, it's easy to score points with the voters by being in favor of things like motherhood and apple pie. But the last I looked, those things weren't in any particular danger. What is threatened in this country is the right of its citizens to a decent job, to affordable health care, to adequate education for their children, to clean air and water, and to security in their old age. That's what I'm here to talk about."

If we can keep the focus on the real issues, we can squeeze the wedge issues into irrelevance.

[FunBobbyMucha]

21. The backbeat started two months ago

when I saw Quentin Tarantino trashed three times in one day, first by O'Lyeilly, for the "utter trash" of Kill Bill, Volume One. Michael Graham chimed in as well, I've forgotten the third. All about how horrible and evil and LEFT this movie was, since after all Bruce Willis wasn't in this one (A stupid accusation, given the cartoonish nature of the movie--Give me the Hawaiian Punch spurting violence of KB1 over any of the right-sanctioned action movies any day).

When I see this kind of lining up among these morons, it reminds me of a line from my favorite movie, Miller's Crossing: "Yer picking up your marchin' orders from Yeg Central." I can just see Rove: "Boys, today it's all about that Tarantino kid. Only hipsters and lefties like his movies, after all. Go, berate, make a fuss. I'll be finalizing the blueprints for the voting machines."

Dollars to donuts they'll try to re-kickstart the QT bashing, making him a symbol of all things Left, when KB2 comes out in February (just as the election fervor kicks into overdrive).